Intel versus other-company motherboard

[Gyan]

I have planned to purchase an Intel-954G-based motherboard, which can
support a 1 Ghz P4 and up to 667 Mhz DDR2. Since Intel boards are more
costly, I wish to ask a question: How important or beneficial is it to
buy a motherboard manufactured by Intel vis-a-vis one having the same
chipset but manufactured by any other company, such as Gigabyte?

Thanks,
Gyan

 

[Galen]

In Gyan <[email protected]> had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

I have planned to purchase an Intel-954G-based motherboard, which can
support a 1 Ghz P4 and up to 667 Mhz DDR2. Since Intel boards are more
costly, I wish to ask a question: How important or beneficial is it to
buy a motherboard manufactured by Intel vis-a-vis one having the same
chipset but manufactured by any other company, such as Gigabyte?

Thanks,
Gyan

I personally ONLY recommend an Intel to any client under very specific
circumstances.

When you're running a giant corporation there's nothing better than being
able to use a single image and a single vendor for your point of contact. As
Intel makes it's own boards and it's own chips then, and only then, is where
I recommend such a purchase. Then, and only then, is the added price a
value. I see no difference in quality between them and a number of other
vendors and I see their chips as being slower, hotter, and more expensive.
Their chipset feature set is no different in quality or features than that
of any other vendor in my experience and the fail rate is pretty much the
same from the dead boxes that I see.

For my own personal use I use GigaByte boards almost exclusively these days.
I am fond of the nVidia chipset, the price, and though I hate the out-of-box
RMA process the warranty is long enough to satisfy me - now if they'd
(GigaByte) just send the replacement board and a return shipping label
instead of making me tear it out of the box first I'd be a lot happier.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/

"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplaces of
existence." - Sherlock Holmes

 

[Ghostrider]

I have planned to purchase an Intel-954G-based motherboard, which can
support a 1 Ghz P4 and up to 667 Mhz DDR2. Since Intel boards are more
costly, I wish to ask a question: How important or beneficial is it to
buy a motherboard manufactured by Intel vis-a-vis one having the same
chipset but manufactured by any other company, such as Gigabyte?

Thanks,
Gyan

Nothing wrong with Intel motherboards. There are several good
competing brands. What are important is the chipset as well as
the features being offered, e.g., onboard sound, video, NIC,
etc. The chipset of preference is normally Intel, however. Once
we choose a specific brand, we will test the board. If it passes
our requirements, we do our development around it.

 

[Paul]

I have planned to purchase an Intel-954G-based motherboard, which can
support a 1 Ghz P4 and up to 667 Mhz DDR2. Since Intel boards are more
costly, I wish to ask a question: How important or beneficial is it to
buy a motherboard manufactured by Intel vis-a-vis one having the same
chipset but manufactured by any other company, such as Gigabyte?

Thanks,
Gyan

Intel contracts the manufacturing of its boards, to other major
suppliers. If you use a search engine, you may find announcements
of who got the latest contract for manufacturing. The schematic design
might be by Intel themselves, but the manufacturing step is done
elsewhere. A domestically produced motherboard, would cost a fortune
from a labor perspective, and Taiwan or China is the best place for
Intel to get the motherboard.

"Asus and Intel Split?"
http://www.ap0calypse.com/showthread.php?t=716

Intel usually doesn't have any overclock settings. Other manufacturers
will allow you to do that.

The other motherboard manufacturers will use the recommended "reference
design" for the chipset section of the motherboard. Each manufacturer
has their own unique way of doing some parts of the design, consistent
with increasing the volume of certain kinds of components, or in
cutting costs compared to the Intel reference design. As an end user,
it is up to you, to spot reports of motherboard failures, to discover
which brand cut too many corners.

One place to look, is on the newegg.com web site. There are reviews
by customers next to many items for sale, and if you see reports
of failures on purchased motherboards, that may guide you on which
brands to avoid.

Documentation quality and website support, a web page showing CPU
types supported, BIOS upgrades and drivers for download, are also
important considerations when you purchase. I recommend downloading
the user manual for a motherboard, before you buy it. All the major
manufacturers have manuals for download.

Paul

 

[kony]

I have planned to purchase an Intel-954G-based motherboard, which can
support a 1 Ghz P4 and up to 667 Mhz DDR2. Since Intel boards are more
costly, I wish to ask a question: How important or beneficial is it to
buy a motherboard manufactured by Intel vis-a-vis one having the same
chipset but manufactured by any other company, such as Gigabyte?

Thanks,
Gyan

Galen already mentioned what is likely the most important
issue- whether you need to build same or very similar
duplicate systems for ease of system maintenance or setup.

For a single system, there's no real gain from Intel
manufacturered boards, though Intel is better thought of as
the branding from being designer, they don't actually "make"
them.

Gigabyte makes many good boards, and also some lower-end
products that are a bit lower quality than the typical
boards from Asus, MSI, or Abit. Your best bet is one of
these 4 manufacturers, not an off-brand or budgetized
manufacturer like PC Chips.

 

[DaveW]

Asus is the largest manufacturer of motherboards in the world. I highly
recommend them after many years of use of different models.

 

[Glen]

I have to agree about Asus. I have used Asus boards exclusively for about 8
years and never had a problem with the boards. The are very well made robust
and highly configurable from many different aspects. They are very well
specked but you do pay a slight price premium. My only grumble with Asus
were a number of years ago bought a board that had the RDRAM chip but had
another chip to allow SDRAM to be used instead of RDRAM. Intel blundered
when they made this conversion chip and it had a timing issue. Intel took
back all their own brand boards giving people a replacement board and a
stick of RDRAM but Asus didn't want to know.

Glen

 

[Leythos]

I also agree about ASUS, been using a number of their Dual Xeon boards
for close to 4 years, never had one fail, always performs well, have
about 30 of them in the field right now.

 

[Geoff]

One thing I heard on tech tv, back when it was worth watching, is Intel
boards can not be overclocked.

-g

 

[Leythos]

One thing I heard on tech tv, back when it was worth watching, is Intel
boards can not be overclocked.

Over clocking is for Amatures and people that don't need stable systems.
While you MAY be able to over-clock and get some benefit without
instability, most of the time it's not worth the head-aches that you end
up with.

Do you really need 398FPS in Counter-Strike or Far-Cry?

 

[kony]

Over clocking is for Amatures and people that don't need stable systems.

Spoken like an amature. Fact is, many parts have quite a
bit of reserve performance and are only clocked at the speed
they are for arbitrary model and price-point reasons.
Details matter, which parts, what speed, what planning to
accomodate power and cooling, etc.

The amature is the one who can't keep a system stable
overclocked, or doesn't know how to determine what the
ceiling of stability is. As with trimming bushes, tying
shoes or any random activity, those who do it regularly tend
to get good at it.

If you don't already know this, you are simply incompetent
and cannot begin to have a valid opinion. Fact is, millions
of systems overclocked stabily are proof enough.

While you MAY be able to over-clock and get some benefit without
instability, most of the time it's not worth the head-aches that you end
up with.

If you have headaches, take some aspirin. It's really not a
problem, issue, whatever you'd like to imply, if one knows
what they're doing. Don't drive 56MPH on the freeway either
I suppose, some are just sticklers for random numbers.

Do you really need 398FPS in Counter-Strike or Far-Cry?

The age-old logical fallacy. Easily proven wrong because
there is not only one speed of CPU since the beginning until
now, nor video card, etc. That faster parts exist, sell,
and will continue to be developed is proof enough that there
is a very real benefit.

I guarantee you can't o'c and get 398FPS on farcry, but
realistically taking that example and running with it, it is
possible to have a scenario where a box might run certain
scenes at avg. 45 FPS, but drop down into sub-25FPS in heavy
combat. Game over. With parts complimentary to o'c, might
be easy to get the minimal FPS up past 30, enough to keep
gameplay smooth.

It's a bit beside the point though, that if you had a better
ability to o'c, you'd see less of a problem in doing so, the
performance gain would be weighed against lessor
detractions. If one doesn't want to o'c misson-critical
systems, that may be a wise choice but even that alone is no
guarantee of stability, rather a system would be validated
same as if overclocked... and a system not tested is easily
more likely to be instable than one overclocked but tested.

Ask the next person walking out of the local computer
superstore with a 512MB memory module, "will you be testing
the system with memtest86+" after installing that?". Odds
are an honest answer would be "no". Ask an overclocker if
they tested theirs, odds are far higher it's a "yes" if that
person has had o'c experience for a fair period of
time/systems.

 

[Jonny]

Motherboard doesn't have be made by Intel to have the same Intel chipset on
the motherboard. Intel sells these chipsets to motherboard makers who
incorporate the same to their motherboards.

There are other motherboard chipset makers.

I stick to Intel as I tend to max my hardware on the PC in a big tower. The
Intel chipset oriented motherboards seem more tolerant of this, and usually
allow at least one more hardware device at the bios level to be recognized
with some tweaking of the bios. If you're just a builder, not a max
hardware type, there is not any difference in the chipset makers.

For first-time builders, I recommend AOpen with an Intel chipset as they
seem easiest to utilize for the newbies. Other motherboard makers such as
Gigabyte come into play if not.

 

[Jonny]

Years ago, I tried my hand at OCing. Fun investigating and see what worked
and didn't work. Got old. Stability in ALL situations became more
important for me as my PC is a tool for me, not a toy to tinker with.
Memtest doesn't work as good as a good ole MS OS install at testing I/O of a
system.

 

[Leythos]

Spoken like an amature. Fact is, many parts have quite a
bit of reserve performance and are only clocked at the speed
they are for arbitrary model and price-point reasons.
Details matter, which parts, what speed, what planning to
accomodate power and cooling, etc.

Fact is that most people don't have the skills to find parts that over-
clock easily, they don't understand over-clocking and they end up with
an unstable system. We're not talking about the die-hard OC'ers, were
talking about the people that post about wanting to OC.

I have no problems myself, I can OC as needed and know how to find the
limits of a system based on its parts/cooling.

The real question is how do you give a anonymous poster seeking to OC
their system enough information with all the variables being what they
are (since you won't know half of them) so that their system is stable?
You can't and it's just not worth OC'ing for the masses.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Spoken like an amature. Fact is, many parts have quite a
bit of reserve performance and are only clocked at the speed
they are for arbitrary model and price-point reasons.
Details matter, which parts, what speed, what planning to
accomodate power and cooling, etc.

You need a dictionary. An amateur is someone who does something as a pastime
not a profession. A professional is someone who does something for a living.
The only professionals I know who overclock are shady resellers who
advertise one thing but deliver a cheaper, overclocked system. I am a
professional. As I have to support what I sell I never overclock systems I
sell. I can and do overclock systems for testing purposes. Very few current
systems can be overclocked enough that the average user would ever notice a
difference. Hobbyists and amateurs that are knowledgeable enough can have a
lot of fun playing with overclocking but professionals only do it in their
spare time for personal purposes.

Kerry

 

[kony]

Years ago, I tried my hand at OCing. Fun investigating and see what worked
and didn't work. Got old. Stability in ALL situations became more
important for me as my PC is a tool for me, not a toy to tinker with.
Memtest doesn't work as good as a good ole MS OS install at testing I/O of a
system.

Err, no.

The worst possible thing to do is install an OS while a box
is overclocked because you can't then be sure if the files
are even intact rather than corrupted, and after system
itself is stable it might continue runnig corrupt files.

 

[kony]

Fact is that most people don't have the skills to find parts that over-
clock easily, they don't understand over-clocking and they end up with
an unstable system. We're not talking about the die-hard OC'ers, were
talking about the people that post about wanting to OC.

So it's more reasonable to say that the issue isn't
overclocking at all, it's doing something one doesn't know
how to do, a bit like anything else in life.

I have no problems myself, I can OC as needed and know how to find the
limits of a system based on its parts/cooling.

The real question is how do you give a anonymous poster seeking to OC
their system enough information with all the variables being what they
are (since you won't know half of them) so that their system is stable?
You can't and it's just not worth OC'ing for the masses.

You don't give them the information, rather a brief overview
or answer to a particular concern if familiar with the gear.

The easiest way to handle it is to just remind them that
they have to test it, not rely on it till they're satisfied
it tests stable- and to make backups first.

 

[kony]

You need a dictionary. An amateur is someone who does something as a pastime
not a profession. A professional is someone who does something for a living.

I suppose in a narrow sort-of,
you-have-a-poor-argument-and-need-excuses sort of way,
you're half-right.

The only professionals I know

Ah! We're only surveying those who you know. Of course.
From further reading it seems you mean professional
resellers, and so at least that context seems fair.

who overclock are shady resellers who
advertise one thing but deliver a cheaper, overclocked system.

You are randomly trying to describe someone selling a
system, rather than the owner of one. Since there are far
more owners than sellers, I dont' see what the point would
be to take this angle. I don't advocate fraud, which would
be what the seller is doing if they sell a box spec'd for
higher clockspeed than the parts manufacturers did. That's
entirely separate from choosing to o'c in general or not.

Further, you are rather arbitrary trying to presume we have
only "amateur" or "professional" categories. In short, you
have no argument.

I am a
professional.

A professional what?
Keep in mind that whatever that 'what' might be, it bears
not on overclocking, as that is an owner's personal choice.

As I have to support what I sell I never overclock systems I
sell.

Great, that's how it should be. What does that have to do
with overclocking in general?

I can and do overclock systems for testing purposes. Very few current
systems can be overclocked enough that the average user would ever notice a
difference.

A rather arbitrary assumption, but by the same token very
few users would notice the difference between the CPU in the
system they bought, and the next slower and cheaper CPU, and
so on, and so on.

Hobbyists and amateurs that are knowledgeable enough can have a
lot of fun playing with overclocking but professionals only do it in their
spare time for personal purposes.

Maybe... seems I recall video card manufacturers selling
what are rightly described as overclocked cards and indeed,
are over spec nVIdia gave. ATI also recently gave the
thumbs up to overclocked cards in some scenarios. It's all
about context, "overclocking" in itself is not the issue, as
much as the particular details of it.

 

[Kerry Brown]

I suppose in a narrow sort-of,
you-have-a-poor-argument-and-need-excuses sort of way,
you're half-right.



Ah! We're only surveying those who you know. Of course.
From further reading it seems you mean professional
resellers, and so at least that context seems fair.


You are randomly trying to describe someone selling a
system, rather than the owner of one. Since there are far
more owners than sellers, I dont' see what the point would
be to take this angle. I don't advocate fraud, which would
be what the seller is doing if they sell a box spec'd for
higher clockspeed than the parts manufacturers did. That's
entirely separate from choosing to o'c in general or not.

Further, you are rather arbitrary trying to presume we have
only "amateur" or "professional" categories. In short, you
have no argument.



A professional what?
Keep in mind that whatever that 'what' might be, it bears
not on overclocking, as that is an owner's personal choice.



Great, that's how it should be. What does that have to do
with overclocking in general?


A rather arbitrary assumption, but by the same token very
few users would notice the difference between the CPU in the
system they bought, and the next slower and cheaper CPU, and
so on, and so on.


Maybe... seems I recall video card manufacturers selling
what are rightly described as overclocked cards and indeed,
are over spec nVIdia gave. ATI also recently gave the
thumbs up to overclocked cards in some scenarios. It's all
about context, "overclocking" in itself is not the issue, as
much as the particular details of it.

You missed the point of my post. Your post seemed to equate professional and
amateur with knowledge about a subject. The terms have nothing to do with
knowledge or expertise. If you are going to flame or correct someone at
least do it properly.

I am not against overclocking. It's like people who "hotrod" cars. It is for
hobbiests and enthusiasts. Done right you can sometimes end up with
something better than what you started with. Done wrong you can destroy what
you started with.

Kerry

 

[kony]

You missed the point of my post. Your post seemed to equate professional and
amateur with knowledge about a subject. The terms have nothing to do with
knowledge or expertise. If you are going to flame or correct someone at
least do it properly.

No I understood what you meant but dismissed it so quickly
it wasn't even worth discussing.

The word used was "amateur", and rightly so in the context
used. You arbitrarily concluded the opposite of the general
term "amateur" was "professional system seller".

In other words, whatever you're thinking, is it's own topic
only loosely related to the topic which you replied to.

I am not against overclocking. It's like people who "hotrod" cars. It is for
hobbiests and enthusiasts.

Another arbitrary conclusion. There are professionally
built hot-rods. You seem to have some misconception about
what "professional" is. It does not necessarily mean "being
conservative", but at least if one plans to make an honest
living at it, it still means accurate representation of
product, and towards that end, a professional reseller
(again, only _your_ context) would sell an overclocked
system if the buyer specifically demanded one, with this
clearly evident. Would it carry support and warranty? That
would be up to the seller. Would YOU, personally, choose to
do it? Entirely your choice, it's probably not a good idea
in general but many things "professionals" do aren't either.

In short, your declaration of attributes are arbitrary and
pointless in the context of overclocking. They might be
more valid in the context of counterfeiting or fraud.

Done right you can sometimes end up with
something better than what you started with. Done wrong you can destroy what
you started with.

Sure, same goes with trimming shrubs.