Ink problem - Canon IP 4000

[Burt]

(snip)
OK, I'll try to answer your questions. OEM is made by the manufacturer.
Everything else I consider to be generic. I should be calling them
compatible cartridges or ink, but generic is an accurate description too.
I just use the word generic because it's not name brand.

I buy Abacus cartridges. They're good enough for me. As I said I do
believe that the color is a bit better from using refill ink and I do
refill for that reason, not for the price difference between Abacus
cartridges and refilling. Blank cartridges made for refilling are more
expensive than buying a cartridge full of ink, so I buy Abacus cartridges,
use the ink in them and refill them with the refill ink I use. I refill
them a few times, then toss the cartridge and install another Abacus
cartridge, then refill it and the process starts again. I definitely like
to refill the BCI 3e cartridge with pigment ink. I have used MIS refill
ink but the last couple of years have used A LOT OF THINGS ink. Both
worked equally well. I used what I found other users recommending. I don't
buy no-name ink at the Wal Mart store that says it refills all brands of
printers.

The BCI 3e is pigment ink for text printing and is the larger cartridge.
The BCI 6 black is photo ink. Sometimes the photo ink is used in text
printing, depending on print settings, etc. I'm not a techie so I'm not
going to attempt any kind of an explanation on that one. I'd probably get
it all wrong anyway.

You said you preferred buying ink cartridges at a store near you. I can
relate to that but where I live I can't even buy all the color ink
cartridges my new Pro9000 uses. I'm not even sure if the BCI series is
still available in the local Wal Mart store. I live in a small town and
buying locally is not an option. They carry ink for some of the chipped
cartridges and lots of HP products. Canon photo paper is not sold here
either, like I said they cater to HP users. So I have to order anyway. I
can't promise you that you'll never buy a bad cartridge. It could happen
with Canon brand or Abacus brand or even the Staples you use.

I wouldn't worry about ordering cartridges. I used to worry if they would
freeze in the mailing process when the weather is cold but I've honestly
never had any problems and it gets really cold here and the UPS or USPS
leaves packages sitting outside my door. I ordered a ink resetter from
Germany this summer and it came with some refill ink too. Everything was
packaged perfectly, no damage, and the ink bottles never leaked. I'm still
not sure I want to take a chance on using the ink that came with it
because I know nothing about who manufactured it. I was really
apprehensive about ordering a package containing ink from another country.
I think you would find that Abacus ships fast even to Canada. I am equally
sure there are other good companies out there besides Abacus but I have no
first hand knowledge of them and some of them may not ship to Canada.

I hope I answered all your questions, if not ask again.

Lou - most posts I read about non-OEM inks and carts call the inks
formulated for specific printers as "compatable" and the universal ink
refill kits in the "big box" stores like Costco or Office Depot as
"generic." Although Measekite lumps these all together with a sneer,
Certain of the compatables are quite good, and, on the other hand, most
people stay away from the generics. Mary wonders how a cart under $2.00 US
can generate a profit for the manufacturer and vendor. The factories in
China bang these out by the millions for pennies and, although the inks have
to be formulated carefully for viscosity, antibacterial activity, etc, Inks
are not a mystery across the globe. Some well known ink formulators make
inks for a variety of purposes, including inkjet printing, and they also
produce the OEM inks that sell for the absurd prices that we as refillers or
compatable cart users avoid. Sometimes the ink is decent and sometimes not.
I'm sure that the Staples brand compatable carts are made there as well.
The two important issues one needs to be aware of in purchasing compatable
prefilled carts are: 1) does the cart function properly to feed ink on
demand and not leak and 2)is the ink good quality in terms of color output
and not damaging to the printer. Since the manufacturer can change the ink
source that they use to prefill their carts, the end user has no assurance
that the ink will always be the same, time after time.

Mary - providing you get the printhead working to your satisfaction, you can
certainly rely on the experience of someone such as Lou in trying the Abacus
carts that are available very cheaply on line. He has not complained about
leaking or clogging and only mentions a slightly different color responce.
You can certianly try them, and if you don't like them you can throw them
away with very little lost. It is best to put in a whole new set (at about
the same cost as one of your Staples carts), run two deep cleanings to clear
the nozzles of the old ink and bring all new ink into the printhead to see
how the colors come out. If you don't like the ink, or if the carts don't
work well for you, you can always replace them, run a few deep cleanings and
be none the worse for wear. Just be sure to seal the ink outlets with the
orange caps you take off the new carts. Hold them on with a rubber band.
Keep them in a sealed refrigerator carton or baggie.

Your best reference on the cheap aftermarket carts is a post such as Lou's
for aftermarket cart quality. I've seen his posts over a period of time,
and this is the first mention I can recall of this brand of cart. This
would dispel the Measekite claim that Lou, or any of the rest of us, has a
financial interest in advertising these carts. Usually, you would see the
first post from someone suggesting a product that would appear fishy.

I've also seen claims that the G&G carts from Alotofthings are good,
although they did have a run of bad carts that leaked at one time. You can
make a phone call or send an email to Alotofthings to seee about their
shipping to Canada. Don't worry about paying duty or taxes - look at your
overall net cost per cart and make your decision.

 

[Lou]

Your best reference on the cheap aftermarket carts is a post such as Lou's
for aftermarket cart quality. I've seen his posts over a period of time,
and this is the first mention I can recall of this brand of cart. This
would dispel the Measekite claim that Lou, or any of the rest of us, has a
financial interest in advertising these carts. Usually, you would see the
first post from someone suggesting a product that would appear fishy.

I've also seen claims that the G&G carts from Alotofthings are good,
although they did have a run of bad carts that leaked at one time. You
can make a phone call or send an email to Alotofthings to seee about their
shipping to Canada. Don't worry about paying duty or taxes - look at your
overall net cost per cart and make your decision.

A very good response, better said than I can word it, but can I correct one
thing. He is actually she. I am female, not male. Lou is the femine
spelling and Lew the male spelling of my name. The fact that I'm not male
probably also explains my lack of technical words for various parts of
printheads and print cartridges. I don't have much of a technical
vocabulary.

I actually think there are two Lou's posting on here because I have seen
another one posting that isn't me. Believe me I have no interest in any
business that is selling ink or cartridges. I just don't like the high cost
of OEM ink and I refuse to pay it and I love Canon printers anc I like to
print a lot. I've had good luck with Abacus but I'm sure there are other
good companies too, and like someone else said any of the companies could
change the formulas at any time. I'm just advising from my past experience
with the company. I'm going to try the G&G cartridges myself one of these
days. There's never any product so good that there might not be something
better. I've read on the Neil Slade/Nifty Stuff website that G&G is one of
the best. However the website seems dated: (2006)
http://www.inkjethelper.com/ I think I've seen a forum there too and didn't
it used to be called Nifty Stuff not inkjet helper?

 

[Burt]

(snip)
I actually think there are two Lou's posting on here because I have seen
another one posting that isn't me. Believe me I have no interest in any
business that is selling ink or cartridges. I just don't like the high
cost of OEM ink and I refuse to pay it and I love Canon printers anc I
like to print a lot. I've had good luck with Abacus but I'm sure there are
other good companies too, and like someone else said any of the companies
could change the formulas at any time. I'm just advising from my past
experience with the company. I'm going to try the G&G cartridges myself
one of these days. There's never any product so good that there might not
be something better. I've read on the Neil Slade/Nifty Stuff website that
G&G is one of the best. However the website seems dated: (2006)
http://www.inkjethelper.com/ I think I've seen a forum there too and
didn't it used to be called Nifty Stuff not inkjet helper?

Lou - Reading Neil Slade's info almost five years ago promted me to retire a
very nice Epson printer that drank very expensive ink (as do all the
inkjets) and had carts that were fairly difficult to refill. I tried
refilling them, but I had difficulty with bottom fill adaptors, unsing a
syringe to pull a vacuum to pull the ink/air foam out of the sponge, etc. -
a fairly messy experience. I bought a Canon i960 and started refilling with
MIS inks per his recommendation. He had so many people contacting him that
he and another individual set up the Nifty-Stuff Forum. It has evolved to
be a very good source of information (mostly for Canon printers) on
aftermarket inks, refilling techniques, printer maintenance, Canon printhead
cleaning, Canon chip resetters, and other peripheral issues.

Neil gave up refilling in favor of using G&G carts as his printing volume
was very high and his time limited. Some time later he had problems with
them as did some other users. He did communicate with the vendor and
apparently they solved the problems. I had only used a few Arrow carts
years ago as they were supposed to be prefilled with Formulabs inks. The
vendor notified me that the Chinese Mfgr had shipped the carts prefilled
with a different ink without telling him. Some also were reported with feed
problems. I took the plastic tape off the air vent mazes and found that
there were two designs - one with a smaller air vent hole than the other,
which I decided was the cause for the poor feed problem. I expanded the air
vent holes in these carts, purged and refilled them, and they worked just
fine for a few years. I gave up on prefilled carts and have been refilling
with MIS and then IS inks from Precision Colors - presumably the same. I now
only refill OEM Canon carts that were given to me after one use by a
friendly manager at a Staples store.

Your posts that describe your positive experience with Abacus carts are
really valuable for someone like Mary. The big box office supply stores
sell their compatables at a price that is so close to the OEM cart prices
that makes no sense to me. They rely on the appearance of their brand name
to boost the price of carts that are similar to those from a good internet
vendor at a much reduced price. Perhaps they have to factor in the cost of
stocking items plus the expense of running a bricks-and-mortar business.

Here's the link to the Nifty-Stuff Forum- http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

 

[Lou]

very nice Epson printer that drank very expensive ink (as do all the
inkjets) and had carts that were fairly difficult to refill. I tried
refilling them, but I had difficulty with bottom fill adaptors, unsing a
syringe to pull a vacuum to pull the ink/air foam out of the sponge,
etc. - a fairly messy experience. I bought a Canon i960 and started
refilling with MIS inks per his recommendation. He had so many people
contacting him that he and another individual set up the Nifty-Stuff
Forum. It has evolved to be a very good source of information (mostly for
Canon printers) on aftermarket inks, refilling techniques, printer
maintenance, Canon printhead cleaning, Canon chip resetters, and other
peripheral issues.

Neil gave up refilling in favor of using G&G carts as his printing volume
was very high and his time limited. Some time later he had problems with
them as did some other users. He did communicate with the vendor and
apparently they solved the problems. I had only used a few Arrow carts
years ago as they were supposed to be prefilled with Formulabs inks. The
vendor notified me that the Chinese Mfgr had shipped the carts prefilled
with a different ink without telling him. Some also were reported with
feed problems. I took the plastic tape off the air vent mazes and found
that there were two designs - one with a smaller air vent hole than the
other, which I decided was the cause for the poor feed problem. I
expanded the air vent holes in these carts, purged and refilled them, and
they worked just fine for a few years. I gave up on prefilled carts and
have been refilling with MIS and then IS inks from Precision Colors -
presumably the same. I now only refill OEM Canon carts that were given to
me after one use by a friendly manager at a Staples store.

Your posts that describe your positive experience with Abacus carts are
really valuable for someone like Mary. The big box office supply stores
sell their compatables at a price that is so close to the OEM cart prices
that makes no sense to me. They rely on the appearance of their brand
name to boost the price of carts that are similar to those from a good
internet vendor at a much reduced price. Perhaps they have to factor in
the cost of stocking items plus the expense of running a bricks-and-mortar
business.

Here's the link to the Nifty-Stuff Forum-
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

Thanks for the link. I remember there being a lot of good info on it.

I'm going to start refilling Canon oem cartridges for the Pro9000. I'm a
little nervous about it because I'm afraid I'll ruin the chip trying to
drill the hole. And then I wonder if when I put pressure on the cartridge
to drill that hole if it will make a mess. If I goof up the first time I'll
just try again. I have 2 sets of OEM cartridges to play with. I think I
read somewhere to heat the drill tip before drilling the hole. Do you do
that? I remember how hard it used to be to refill HP cartridges and then
maybe they worked or maybe not. The black cartridge had to be put in a clamp
to create a vacuum, never easy, and the top had to be pried off the color
cartridge. I really love Canon, maybe because I disliked refilling HP so
much. I only use the Pro9000 enough to make sure it has use and doesn't plug
up just sitting there. Maybe after the first refill I'll get some
confidence and use it all the time. Right now I'm stalling. The IP5000 is so
easy to refill.

I must be doing something right on my printing because I get a lot of
compliments on the pictures I print. I just listen to my friends complain
about the high cost of ink and wonder why they don't just buy Canon printers
that can be refilled.

Thank you.

 

[MaryT]

OK, I'll try to answer your questions. OEM is made by the manufacturer.
Everything else I consider to be generic. I should be calling them
compatible cartridges or ink, but generic is an accurate description too. I
just use the word generic because it's not name brand.

I thought generic ink was something different from compatible cartridges,
like you could refill empty cartridges with generic ink, but compatible
cartridges are cartridges already filled with ink when you buy them, so you
don't need to refill them.

I buy Abacus cartridges. They're good enough for me. As I said I do
believe that the color is a bit better from using refill ink and I do refill
for that reason, not for the price difference between Abacus cartridges and
refilling. Blank cartridges made for refilling are more expensive than
buying a cartridge full of ink, so I buy Abacus cartridges, use the ink in
them and refill them with the refill ink I use. I refill them a few times,
then toss the cartridge and install another Abacus cartridge, then refill it
and the process starts again.

A practical way of doing things. I don't think I want to try refilling right
now and may never, but you can never say never about some things >)

I definitely like to refill the BCI 3e
cartridge with pigment ink. I have used MIS refill ink but the last couple
of years have used A LOT OF THINGS ink. Both worked equally well. I used
what I found other users recommending. I don't buy no-name ink at the Wal
Mart store that says it refills all brands of printers.

The big black carts in my printer is BCI 3eBK. The other smaller black and
colours are all BCI -6. I don't think Walmarts near me sell any no-name ink
but I've never really looked close. Their computers/printers and supplies
are is quite small. Staples pretty well have the market in Toronto (and
probably rest of Canada) for office supplies and computer/printer/phones,
and supplies.

The BCI 3e is pigment ink for text printing and is the larger cartridge.
The BCI 6 black is photo ink. Sometimes the photo ink is used in text
printing, depending on print settings, etc. I'm not a techie so I'm not
going to attempt any kind of an explanation on that one. I'd probably get
it all wrong anyway.

For not being a techie, you do pretty well I wasn't sure which black was
for which function, so thanks for that info.

You said you preferred buying ink cartridges at a store near you. I can
relate to that but where I live I can't even buy all the color ink
cartridges my new Pro9000 uses. I'm not even sure if the BCI series is
still available in the local Wal Mart store. I live in a small town and
buying locally is not an option. They carry ink for some of the chipped
cartridges and lots of HP products. Canon photo paper is not sold here
either, like I said they cater to HP users. So I have to order anyway. I
can't promise you that you'll never buy a bad cartridge. It could happen
with Canon brand or Abacus brand or even the Staples you use.

There are 4 Staples stores not too far from where I live, and any Staples
have all major manufacturers carts, plus the Staples brand for Canon and
some other manufacturers, though not all. Because I live in a big city, I
have never had to buy computer related items as they are all in stores here
and if any carts are defective (though I've only had one about a year ago)
its a lot easier to just take it back to the store and get a replacement
right away.Canon photo paper and Kodak and HP photo papers are sold here in
all Staples stores. I only buy online once in a while a DVD movie from
Amazon US site, if they don't have it at Amazon Canada site, But most times
I buy DVD movies at the DVD store in a big mall near me. Its one of the
advantages of living in a big city, but a small town has its own advantages.
I like small towns. I can see it would not be an option for you to buy at
stores and most times have to buy online but you are used to it.

I wouldn't worry about ordering cartridges. I used to worry if they would
freeze in the mailing process when the weather is cold but I've honestly
never had any problems and it gets really cold here and the UPS or USPS
leaves packages sitting outside my door.

I don't worry about stuff freezing in the mail, though the temp here is 92F
today, so I am sweating If the package is small and fits in my mail box
in my apt. building lobby, the postman leaves it in my mailbox as long as he
doesn't have to collect any taxes on package.If he does, I would pay it when
he comes if I am home, or pay the amount at the post office where I would
pick up the package the next day. The postman won't leave packages at your
door, so you pick up package at post office. UPS (or any courier) is not big
for individuals here receiving packages as it is in the US. Its mainly used
by businesses.

I ordered a ink resetter from

Germany this summer and it came with some refill ink too. Everything was
packaged perfectly, no damage, and the ink bottles never leaked. I'm still
not sure I want to take a chance on using the ink that came with it because
I know nothing about who manufactured it. I was really apprehensive about
ordering a package containing ink from another country. I think you would
find that Abacus ships fast even to Canada. I am equally sure there are
other good companies out there besides Abacus but I have no first hand
knowledge of them and some of them may not ship to Canada.

I hope I answered all your questions, if not ask again.

Yes, thanks for your answers. I haven't done anything new on the cartridges.
I have been busy with other things and was out today. I am thinking I might
order from Abacus based on the good results you've had with them. Check my
message to Burt, which I am going to write a little later about colour
problems and my windex result from yesterday.

Mary

Mary

 

[Burt]

(snip)

Thanks for the link. I remember there being a lot of good info on it.

I'm going to start refilling Canon oem cartridges for the Pro9000. I'm a
little nervous about it because I'm afraid I'll ruin the chip trying to
drill the hole. And then I wonder if when I put pressure on the cartridge
to drill that hole if it will make a mess. If I goof up the first time
I'll just try again. I have 2 sets of OEM cartridges to play with. I
think I read somewhere to heat the drill tip before drilling the hole. Do
you do that? I remember how hard it used to be to refill HP cartridges
and then maybe they worked or maybe not. The black cartridge had to be put
in a clamp to create a vacuum, never easy, and the top had to be pried off
the color cartridge. I really love Canon, maybe because I disliked
refilling HP so much. I only use the Pro9000 enough to make sure it has
use and doesn't plug up just sitting there. Maybe after the first refill
I'll get some confidence and use it all the time. Right now I'm stalling.
The IP5000 is so easy to refill.

I must be doing something right on my printing because I get a lot of
compliments on the pictures I print. I just listen to my friends complain
about the high cost of ink and wonder why they don't just buy Canon
printers that can be refilled.

Thank you.

You can refill the cli-8 carts just the same as the bci-6 carts. No
different. I use an opened paper clip, held in a pliers and heated on a gas
stove, to make a hole over the reservoir area of the cart between the
factory ball seal and the end of the cart closest to the ball. I then screw
in a self tapping pan head sheet metal screw with an o-ring for a seal. You
occasionally have to change the o-ring after several refills as they get
tired. There is also a German technique described on the forum that
involves creating a hole just large enough for the needle to be inserted.
It is made on the narrow side of the cart at the lower level of the sponge.
The users claim it is less messy, and it also requires no sealing. I
haven't used it as I'm happy with the technique I'm using, but avoiding the
need to remove and replace a seal looks inviting. Go onto the forum, read
the issues on sealing the cart, purging carts, and the German technique, the
name of which escapes me but starts with "durch---" or something like that.
My workflow for refilling is pretty easy and contains whatever small mess
that refilling entails, including wearing latex exam gloves that are readily
available. You will find lots of info in a few threads on the availability
of a chip reprogrammer that comes out of Germany. The price varies, but I
think it is between $50 and $75. It is called the Redsetter. I would guess
that the price will be dropping soon, but it still represents less than the
cost of replacing half of your carts with Canon OEM carts. The ink vendors
that I've seen posted that seem to be good quality are IS ink from Precision
Colors ( http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/ ), Formulabs inks from Alotofthings,
and Hobbicolor inks. The first two state their source, the last does not,
but users report good results from all of them.

 

[MaryT]

Lou - most posts I read about non-OEM inks and carts call the inks
formulated for specific printers as "compatable" and the universal ink
refill kits in the "big box" stores like Costco or Office Depot as
"generic." Although Measekite lumps these all together with a sneer,
Certain of the compatables are quite good, and, on the other hand, most
people stay away from the generics. Mary wonders how a cart under $2.00 US
can generate a profit for the manufacturer and vendor. The factories in
China bang these out by the millions for pennies and, although the inks have
to be formulated carefully for viscosity, antibacterial activity, etc, Inks
are not a mystery across the globe. Some well known ink formulators make
inks for a variety of purposes, including inkjet printing, and they also
produce the OEM inks that sell for the absurd prices that we as refillers or
compatable cart users avoid. Sometimes the ink is decent and sometimes not.
I'm sure that the Staples brand compatable carts are made there as well.

Burt, do you mean Staples brand compatible carts are probably made in China
too? Everything we buy here seems to be made in China in the last few years.
They have become a world exporter but have had quality control issues in
some products which have been imported into the North American market.
Though maybe they have improved somewhat.

The two important issues one needs to be aware of in purchasing compatable
prefilled carts are: 1) does the cart function properly to feed ink on
demand and not leak and 2)is the ink good quality in terms of color output
and not damaging to the printer. Since the manufacturer can change the ink
source that they use to prefill their carts, the end user has no assurance
that the ink will always be the same, time after time.

Mary - providing you get the printhead working to your satisfaction, you can
certainly rely on the experience of someone such as Lou in trying the Abacus
carts that are available very cheaply on line. He has not complained about
leaking or clogging and only mentions a slightly different color responce.
You can certianly try them, and if you don't like them you can throw them
away with very little lost.

I tried the Windex route last night, and later on printed a nozzle test. No
magenta colour showed up on the nozzle test, but I printed a picture from a
website which had some red on it, and the red was printed, though not as
good as when I did the hotwater soak. But when I tried it this afternoon,
magenta didn't print at all on the nozzle test or on the picture which had
some red on it.

Before going any further, just to let you know, Chris of the group here,
offered me his IP4000 printhead in a message here and I immediately accepted
his offer. He has kindly sent me his old IP4000 printhead in the mail, in
case I need it. I am grateful. Its very good of him.

It is best to put in a whole new set (at about
the same cost as one of your Staples carts), run two deep cleanings to clear
the nozzles of the old ink and bring all new ink into the printhead to see
how the colors come out.

I am thinking of ordering ink cartridges from Abacus who Lou mentioned. I
checked their webiste and can buy a 12 pack for $16.95 US. The Can. $ is the
same except for a few cents, so its easy to compare prices. Shipping is
$6.99 but doesn't say which pak or how many carts you get for that. I have
emailed them to clarify everything. Also, they say on their website that the
is a US law which says that manufacturers can't void your warranty if you
use compatible inks, but that is a US law and does not apply in Canada as we
are a different country. I wonder if Canada has a law like that. I buy
Staples brand which is compatible ink, but I buy them from Staples Canada
store, not from a US online site.

If you don't like the ink, or if the carts don't
work well for you, you can always replace them, run a few deep cleanings and
be none the worse for wear. Just be sure to seal the ink outlets with the
orange caps you take off the new carts. Hold them on with a rubber band.
Keep them in a sealed refrigerator carton or baggie.

It is not clear to me what cartridges you are talking about when you say "be
sure to seal the ink outlets with the orange caps you take off new carts and
hold them on with a rubber band and keep in a sealed carton". What would I
be replacing the carts with? why would I be storing them? If they don't work
out, I would just have to throw them out and consider other compatibles. I
am not interested in refilling and when I hear your instructions to Lou
about refilling, I'll pass - rubber gloves, injecting holes, paper clips,
o-rings, etc. I'm sure you get used to it, but not interesting to me, not
right now at least.

Mary

 

[Burt]

You can refill the cli-8 carts just the same as the bci-6 carts. No
different. I use an opened paper clip, held in a pliers and heated on a
gas stove, to make a hole over the reservoir area of the cart between the
factory ball seal and the end of the cart closest to the ball. I then
screw in a self tapping pan head sheet metal screw with an o-ring for a
seal. You occasionally have to change the o-ring after several refills as
they get tired. There is also a German technique described on the forum
that involves creating a hole just large enough for the needle to be
inserted. It is made on the narrow side of the cart at the lower level of
the sponge. The users claim it is less messy, and it also requires no
sealing. I haven't used it as I'm happy with the technique I'm using, but
avoiding the need to remove and replace a seal looks inviting. Go onto
the forum, read the issues on sealing the cart, purging carts, and the
German technique, the name of which escapes me but starts with "durch---"
or something like that. My workflow for refilling is pretty easy and
contains whatever small mess that refilling entails, including wearing
latex exam gloves that are readily available. You will find lots of info
in a few threads on the availability of a chip reprogrammer that comes out
of Germany. The price varies, but I think it is between $50 and $75. It
is called the Redsetter. I would guess that the price will be dropping
soon, but it still represents less than the cost of replacing half of your
carts with Canon OEM carts. The ink vendors that I've seen posted that
seem to be good quality are IS ink from Precision Colors (
http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/ ), Formulabs inks from Alotofthings, and
Hobbicolor inks. The first two state their source, the last does not, but
users report good results from all of them.

Lou - sorry to add to my own post, but I saw one of your other posts in
which you mentioned that you used Formulabs inks and have a Hobbicolor set
as well. Also that you did order the Canon chip resetter. Since I am not
using a printer with the Canon chipped carts I don't know how much space
there is between the ball seal and the edge of the chip area. You certainly
don't want to take a chance on damaging a chip when creating a fill hole.
There are also techniques for removing the ball, and there are plugs just
the size of the ball for resealing after the refill. I think that
Hobbicolors sends plugs with the ink for the chipped carts, and a company
called Computer Friends sells kits that include a very good plug for when
you remove the factory fill hole plastic ball. You can call them and order
the plugs separately. If you don't get an answer on this NG about where to
create a fill hole in the chipped carts you can look through the Nifty Stuff
Form, and if you don't find the answer you can post a question.

 

[MaryT]

A very good response, better said than I can word it, but can I correct one
thing. He is actually she. I am female, not male. Lou is the femine
spelling and Lew the male spelling of my name. The fact that I'm not male
probably also explains my lack of technical words for various parts of
printheads and print cartridges. I don't have much of a technical
vocabulary.

I thought you were male all along. I used to work with two guys called Lou.
Their full name was Louis. Some males named Louis like Louie. I don't know
any females called Lou. Is your name Louise? If so some people might call
you Lou. I've never heard of the Lew spelled that way, though I guess it
could be short for Lewis, but thats more common as a surname.
What about Lou Grant, Mary's boss in "Mary Tyler Moore" - that Lou was a
guy. Maybe thats before your time
My daughters middle name is Louise.

Mary

 

[MaryT]

Mary - providing you get the printhead working to your satisfaction, you can
certainly rely on the experience of someone such as Lou in trying the Abacus
carts that are available very cheaply on line. He has not complained about
leaking or clogging and only mentions a slightly different color responce.
You can certianly try them, and if you don't like them you can throw them
away with very little lost. It is best to put in a whole new set (at about
the same cost as one of your Staples carts), run two deep cleanings to clear
the nozzles of the old ink and bring all new ink into the printhead to see
how the colors come out. If you don't like the ink, or if the carts don't
work well for you, you can always replace them, run a few deep cleanings and
be none the worse for wear. Just be sure to seal the ink outlets with the
orange caps you take off the new carts. Hold them on with a rubber band.
Keep them in a sealed refrigerator carton or baggie.

Your best reference on the cheap aftermarket carts is a post such as Lou's
for aftermarket cart quality. I've seen his posts over a period of time,
and this is the first mention I can recall of this brand of cart. This
would dispel the Measekite claim that Lou, or any of the rest of us, has a
financial interest in advertising these carts. Usually, you would see the
first post from someone suggesting a product that would appear fishy.

I've also seen claims that the G&G carts from Alotofthings are good,
although they did have a run of bad carts that leaked at one time. You can
make a phone call or send an email to Alotofthings to seee about their
shipping to Canada. Don't worry about paying duty or taxes - look at your
overall net cost per cart and make your decision.

Doesn't Alotofthings just sell refill ink? Alotof things state on their
website that they do not send orders outside of U.S. or ship to locations
outside of the United States."

I usually make sure if I order anything from the US the value is under
$20.00 in value and in the case of Abacus it would be under that amount.
There is no duty on items coming from the US as long as the products is made
in the US or Canada under NAFTA, but there is still 13% tax, and $5.00
handling fee from post office (the $5.00 handling fee collected by the Post
office bugs me more than the taxes). If the product or item is not made in
the US there is taxes AND duty. In the case of ink, who knows where it is
manufactured, but with low value items, its not a lot to worry about. I know
a lot about Customs taxes, duty, etc. I've had a lot of experience through
the years. You don't have to worry about these things > But your right,
the overall cost per cart is the most imporant thing to consider, along with
amount of shipping of course as it has to be included in the whole
comparison since its included in total output of money.

By the way, I thought Hobbicolors sold compatible cartridges and I emailed
them to find out some things, shipping to Canada, prices etc. The guy who
replied was very nice and helpful and said they used to sell compatible
cartrs, but haven't for quite a while. They only deal in refill inks. He
said they now ship to Canada and other countries but never used to, so when
you gave me advice/comments before a little over 2 years ago, Hobbicolors
did not ship to Canada at that time. I checked MIS but forget what they
said. I can't remember if they sell compatible carts or not. I would have to
check again. For now, I am searching for recommendations for compatible
cartridges and so far have Lou's recommendation of Abacus.

Mary

 

[MaryT]

It's true that some 'compatible' carts are awful. Since Printrite, or
whatever they were called, bit the dust I haven't found any in the UK
I'm l00% happy with. My son has an Epson though and some of the cart
brands that are not good for me work fine for him. I suffered all
sorts of blockages and tried the real thing out of desperation, and it
was such a joy to just pop them in and they worked straight away and
keep working til they run out. Having said that I do use compatible
blacks, but only from one or two companies and i keep an eye on
quality etc in case they change suppliers.

There would have to be an obvious decline in the ink quality before you
would even know they had changed suppliers.
I dont know if I would buy OEM carts, even out of desperation . I really
begrudge as they are so expensive and sometimes don't last too long. I think
I might try the compatible cartridge company mentioned by Lou . The price is
cheap and if they don't work very good, I won't feel too bad. Right now, I
am not using my printer. Black and yellow need replaced and magenta is
stuck. I had an Epson a few years ago but the cartridges didn't last very
long and were more expensive than Canon.. I finally got fed up and bought a
Canon.

Mary

 

[Lou]

You can refill the cli-8 carts just the same as the bci-6 carts. No
different. I use an opened paper clip, held in a pliers and heated on a
gas stove, to make a hole over the reservoir area of the cart between the
factory ball seal and the end of the cart closest to the ball. I then
screw in a self tapping pan head sheet metal screw with an o-ring for a
seal. You occasionally have to change the o-ring after several refills as
they get tired. There is also a German technique described on the forum
that involves creating a hole just large enough for the needle to be
inserted. It is made on the narrow side of the cart at the lower level of
the sponge. The users claim it is less messy, and it also requires no
sealing. I haven't used it as I'm happy with the technique I'm using, but
avoiding the need to remove and replace a seal looks inviting. Go onto
the forum, read the issues on sealing the cart, purging carts, and the
German technique, the name of which escapes me but starts with "durch---"
or something like that. My workflow for refilling is pretty easy and
contains whatever small mess that refilling entails, including wearing
latex exam gloves that are readily available. You will find lots of info
in a few threads on the availability of a chip reprogrammer that comes out
of Germany. The price varies, but I think it is between $50 and $75. It
is called the Redsetter. I would guess that the price will be dropping
soon, but it still represents less than the cost of replacing half of your
carts with Canon OEM carts. The ink vendors that I've seen posted that
seem to be good quality are IS ink from Precision Colors (
http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/ ), Formulabs inks from Alotofthings, and
Hobbicolor inks. The first two state their source, the last does not, but
users report good results from all of them.

Thanks, I'll try the paperclip. I've already bought the ink from
Hobbicolors and bought the resetter from Germany. I haven't used the
printer very much yet, maybe 20 4x6 pictures, an 8x10 and a few regular
printed pages. I don't know how long the OEM cartridges last for. I'm all
set for when the first cartridge runs out.

 

[Lou]

I thought you were male all along. I used to work with two guys called
Lou.
Their full name was Louis. Some males named Louis like Louie. I don't know
any females called Lou. Is your name Louise? If so some people might call
you Lou. I've never heard of the Lew spelled that way, though I guess it
could be short for Lewis, but thats more common as a surname.
What about Lou Grant, Mary's boss in "Mary Tyler Moore" - that Lou was a
guy. Maybe thats before your time
My daughters middle name is Louise.

Mary

Maybe you're right about the spelling, but I did use to work for a man named
Lew and it was spelled that way. Lew could be short for Lewis but you know
I've never seen a man's name spelled Lou. I probably live in a small world.

No, it's just Lou, not a shortened version of another name, It was the
nickname and shortened version of both of my mother's grandmothers. Neither
one was directly named Lou, well one was Louella, but both were called Lou.
She never said so but I always figured I was named after them. I also have a
friend named Lou, just Lou too. It's a common name. Personally I hate it!

 

[Howard]

Thanks, I'll try the paperclip. I've already bought the ink from
Hobbicolors and bought the resetter from Germany. I haven't used the
printer very much yet, maybe 20 4x6 pictures, an 8x10 and a few regular
printed pages. I don't know how long the OEM cartridges last for. I'm
all set for when the first cartridge runs out.

I have been refilling Canon chipped CLI-8 and PGI-5 cartridges for a couple
of years now. The system that has worked well for me is

1. Using a 3/32 drill bit drill a small hole on the upper back of the
cartridge just below the junction of the reservoir and the felt like
material (at the upper margin of where "made in Japan" is written on the
label.

2 With a 10-20ml syringe and blunt needle (available from refill ink
suppliers) inject the proper ink to almost completely fill the reservoir.

3. Close the hole with a flat head 6-3/8 sheet metal screw. Screw down firm
but not tight.

4. Reinstall the cartridge in the printhead.

Things I have learned

1. Set screws usually provided with refill kits are not tapered and many
times leak I tried hot glue once and it was a disaster.
2. Rubber washers cause the screw head to sit up high enough that it
occasionally jams on my ip4200. I don't find that I need them to prevent
leaks.
3. OEM cartridges are usually good for 5-10 refills. I don't know why but
they start to fail (feed ink poorly) after that. I replace them with fresh
cartridges after 10 refills. I use "compatible cartridges" and move the chip
to the new cartridge
4. I have had good luck with cartridges from Abacus and inks from
Printerfillingstation. Pigment ink in the PG (for pigment) 5 cartridge.

On an inkjet I run a basic head cleaning at least once every two weeks. Yes
it uses ink but refilling is cheap and clogged printheads are troublesome
and expensive.

Since I lose "ink tank monitoring" I check the tanks regularly (it takes
less than a minute). As stated earlier in this thread the Canon printhead
uses the ink for cooling during operation. I am toying with the idea of
purchasing a "chip reseter" on ebay. The feedback on these seems good and
the current price seems worthwhile to get back ink monitoring function and
fax printing on MX models.

When I need a new printhead (twice in 12 years) I just buy a new printer.
The cost of a new printer (street price canon usa) is about 1/2 the cost of
a printhead and ink tanks which come with the new printer.

Hope this is of some help to others in dealing with the issue of cartridge
refilling on Canons.

Howard

 

[Burt]

(snip)
It is not clear to me what cartridges you are talking about when you say
"be
sure to seal the ink outlets with the orange caps you take off new carts
and
hold them on with a rubber band and keep in a sealed carton". What would I
be replacing the carts with? why would I be storing them? If they don't
work
out, I would just have to throw them out and consider other compatibles. I
am not interested in refilling and when I hear your instructions to Lou
about refilling, I'll pass - rubber gloves, injecting holes, paper clips,
o-rings, etc. I'm sure you get used to it, but not interesting to me, not
right now at least.

Mary

(snip)

Mary - Save the Staples carts that are performing ok as you can reinsert
them if you don't like the Abacus carts. Cap the outlet, tape over the vent
hole where you blew to see if the carts were working ok, and store in a
baggy or a sealed refrigerator carton.

 

[Burt]

(clip)

I have been refilling Canon chipped CLI-8 and PGI-5 cartridges for a
couple of years now. The system that has worked well for me is

1. Using a 3/32 drill bit drill a small hole on the upper back of the
cartridge just below the junction of the reservoir and the felt like
material (at the upper margin of where "made in Japan" is written on the
label.

Not quite clear on the location - is that on top of the cart near where the
factory fill hole has the little ball?

2 With a 10-20ml syringe and blunt needle (available from refill ink
suppliers) inject the proper ink to almost completely fill the reservoir.

3. Close the hole with a flat head 6-3/8 sheet metal screw. Screw down
firm but not tight.

Is that a tapered screw head with flat top, similar to a wood screw one
would countersink? hope you are using stainless steel screws as the zinc
plated ones can rust and possibly alter the ink color - particularly yellow.
I've seen little fragments of the zinc coating fall into the reservoir when
corroded. >

4. Reinstall the cartridge in the printhead.

Things I have learned

1. Set screws usually provided with refill kits are not tapered and many
times leak I tried hot glue once and it was a disaster.
2. Rubber washers cause the screw head to sit up high enough that it
occasionally jams on my ip4200. I don't find that I need them to prevent
leaks.

The pan head screws have a very thin head. With an o-ring, do they get in
the way of the printer function? Not in my i960 or ip5000.

3. OEM cartridges are usually good for 5-10 refills. I don't know why but
they start to fail (feed ink poorly) after that. I replace them with fresh
cartridges after 10 refills. I use "compatible cartridges" and move the
chip to the new cartridge

After several refills there is an accumulation of dried ink in areas that
slow the flow of ink. Purging them with hot water cleans them out. Check
out the cart purging technique on the Nifty-Stuff Forum. About $5 worth of
parts from a hardware store and a few minutes restore a cart to new
condition for refilling. OEM carts are really the best to refill.

4. I have had good luck with cartridges from Abacus and inks from
Printerfillingstation. Pigment ink in the PG (for pigment) 5 cartridge.

On an inkjet I run a basic head cleaning at least once every two weeks.
Yes it uses ink but refilling is cheap and clogged printheads are
troublesome and expensive.

Since I lose "ink tank monitoring" I check the tanks regularly (it takes
less than a minute). As stated earlier in this thread the Canon printhead
uses the ink for cooling during operation. I am toying with the idea of
purchasing a "chip reseter" on ebay. The feedback on these seems good and
the current price seems worthwhile to get back ink monitoring function and
fax printing on MX models.

When I need a new printhead (twice in 12 years) I just buy a new printer.
The cost of a new printer (street price canon usa) is about 1/2 the cost
of a printhead and ink tanks which come with the new printer.

Hope this is of some help to others in dealing with the issue of cartridge
refilling on Canons.

Howard

Good info, Howard. Have you read through threads on the Nifty stuff forum?
lots of tips and tricks there for refilling.

 

[Mary]

(snip)

Mary - Save the Staples carts that are performing ok as you can reinsert
them if you don't like the Abacus carts. Cap the outlet, tape over the vent
hole where you blew to see if the carts were working ok, and store in a
baggy or a sealed refrigerator carton.

Oh OK, I didn't know you were talking about the Staples carts that are
performing ok. That would only be the cyan and small black. Magenta doesn't
seem to be any good, the fat black cart and yellow need to be replaced.
Supposedly, the idea marketed when they first came out with 5 cartridge sets
was you could buy one cartridge at a time, and that all the colours wouldn't
go at one time, but I have found that they start to go pretty close to each
other. So much for that theory.

Do I only tape over the small air hole? what about the bigger hole at the
other side, where the ink comes out when you blow in the air hole? Doesn't
it need to be taped? I guess we use different names for the same objects. Is
a "sealed refrigerator carton" what we call a small plastic container with a
lid? The only thing we call a "carton" is a carton of milk which you put in
the refrigerator. A "baggy" I think is what we would call a Ziplock sandwich
bag. I think you have them in the US as well. The edges at the top are
pressed together to form a seal.

Mary

 

[Paul Heslop]

There would have to be an obvious decline in the ink quality before you
would even know they had changed suppliers.
I dont know if I would buy OEM carts, even out of desperation . I really
begrudge as they are so expensive and sometimes don't last too long. I think
I might try the compatible cartridge company mentioned by Lou . The price is
cheap and if they don't work very good, I won't feel too bad. Right now, I
am not using my printer. Black and yellow need replaced and magenta is
stuck. I had an Epson a few years ago but the cartridges didn't last very
long and were more expensive than Canon.. I finally got fed up and bought a
Canon.

Mary

I do understand your feeling towards the OEM stuff but it really did
make a difference for me. I was at the stage where I was having to
clean the heads so often I just didn't know if I'd get a good print.
As I print on dvd and cd too, which already have whatever is recorded
on them it is a disaster of minor proportions when it goes wrong. I
understand how you feel though, pricing is ridiculous. Best way to get
them is in a multipack, and you may be surprised at his cheaply you
can get those if you're lucky.

 

[Howard]

(clip)
Not quite clear on the location - is that on top of the cart near where
the factory fill hole has the little ball?

Yes, above the ball but just below the partition between the reservoir and
"felt"

Is that a tapered screw head with flat top, similar to a wood screw one
would countersink? hope you are using stainless steel screws as the zinc
plated ones can rust and possibly alter the ink color - particularly
yellow. I've seen little fragments of the zinc coating fall into the
reservoir when corroded. >

I use stainless flat head sheet metal screws. 6-3/8. These do not corrode
and are self tapping. The self tapping is what prevents leakage.

 

[measekite]

Lou wrote:

"Burt" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



"Lou" <Lou@[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



(snip)



Thanks for the link. I remember there being a lot of good info on it. I'm going to start refilling Canon oem cartridges for the Pro9000. I'm a little nervous about it because I'm afraid I'll ruin the chip trying to drill the hole. And then I wonder if when I put pressure on the cartridge to drill that hole if it will make a mess. If I goof up the first time I'll just try again. I have 2 sets of OEM cartridges to play with. I think I read somewhere to heat the drill tip before drilling the hole. Do you do that? I remember how hard it used to be to refill HP cartridges and then maybe they worked or maybe not. The black cartridge had to be put in a clamp to create a vacuum, never easy, and the top had to be pried off the color cartridge. I really love Canon, maybe because I disliked refilling HP so much. I only use the Pro9000 enough to make sure it has use and doesn't plug up just sitting there. Maybe after the first refill I'll get some confidence and use it all the time. Right now I'm stalling. The IP5000 is so easy to refill. I must be doing something right on my printing because I get a lot of compliments on the pictures I print. I just listen to my friends complain about the high cost of ink and wonder why they don't just buy Canon printers that can be refilled. Thank you.



You can refill the cli-8 carts just the same as the bci-6 carts. No different. I use an opened paper clip, held in a pliers and heated on a gas stove, to make a hole over the reservoir area of the cart between the factory ball seal and the end of the cart closest to the ball. I then screw in a self tapping pan head sheet metal screw with an o-ring for a seal. You occasionally have to change the o-ring after several refills as they get tired. There is also a German technique described on the forum that involves creating a hole just large enough for the needle to be inserted. It is made on the narrow side of the cart at the lower level of the sponge. The users claim it is less messy, and it also requires no sealing. I haven't used it as I'm happy with the technique I'm using, but avoiding the need to remove and replace a seal looks inviting. Go onto the forum, read the issues on sealing the cart, purging carts, and the German technique, the name of which escapes me but starts with "durch---" or something like that. My workflow for refilling is pretty easy and contains whatever small mess that refilling entails, including wearing latex exam gloves that are readily available. You will find lots of info in a few threads on the availability of a chip reprogrammer that comes out of Germany. The price varies, but I think it is between $50 and $75. It is called the Redsetter. I would guess that the price will be dropping soon, but it still represents less than the cost of replacing half of your carts with Canon OEM carts. The ink vendors that I've seen posted that seem to be good quality are IS ink from Precision Colors ( http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/ ), Formulabs inks from Alotofthings, and Hobbicolor inks. The first two state their source, the last does not, but users report good results from all of them.



Thanks, I'll try the paperclip. I've already bought the ink from Hobbicolors and bought the resetter from Germany. I haven't used the printer very much yet, maybe 20 4x6 pictures, an 8x10 and a few regular printed pages. I don't know how long the OEM cartridges last for. I'm all set for when the first cartridge runs out.

You are all set for ruining your printer.  I will see the postings in the future asking what to do.  I am telling you what to do now.  You do not seem to print heavily so I would just take the loss on the junk and replace using Canon ink.  I am sure you are getting nice prints right now.