Idiotic ATI website

[Gonzo]

This thread is yet another perfect example our American education system
going to hell.

Some people simply do not know how to read. And some who do know how to
read have zero comprehension skills.

In ten more years we will be another third world nation. Trully Sad.

 

[Mike]

I got the xp drivers in 2 clicks, typed ATI in google, clicked the top ATI
link, then clicked 5.3 XP drivers on the left side of the page. You might
want to count a 3rd click, to let windows download from the site. But
that's not an ATI thing of course, it's an i.e. security setting...

Mike

 

[J. Clarke]

Bitching common on newsgroups. It's a fine way to blow off steam.

And so is bitching at the bitchers.

On the other hand, while not exactly rare, it's somewhat uncommon for a
poster to run around telling everybody that they're wrong, and that what
they see as difficult, tedious, and annoying is really exceedingly easy.

I don't see how 5 clicks of the mouse is "difficult, tedious, and annoying"
for even the most deeply rooted couch potato.

So what is it, exactly, that you are hoping to accomplish with your posts?

I'm not "hoping to accomplish" _anything_.

I'm certainly not trying to be offensive or imply somehow that you are
doing something wrong, but I am curious as to why you feel the need to
tell everybody, repeatedly, how easy it is for you to navigate ATI's site.

Because each poster has had a different complaint and when I checked it out
I found that the behavior of the site was not as described.

Frankly, it's foolish to be critical of a user of a web site because they
find it difficult to navigate. The whole point of the WWW is to make
things easier to find, and until it was developed, most folks stayed away
from the internet as well as BBS's due to the complexity and confusion of
text based
'surfing'. If a web site isn't easily used by the least experienced of
users, the developer has failed in his job.

"The least experienced of users" shouldn't be upgrading video drivers
without someone to hold their hand.

The same applies when a web
site is radically different from others of it's type. I've assembled half
a dozen computers in the past week, and not one of the sites I downloaded
drivers and applications from is even remotely similar to ATI's new site,
nor did I have any trouble instantly finding what I need.

I don't consider a navigation frame to be a "radical difference".

The fact that at least four thousand other people in the past few days
have the same issues shows that it's not a browser, vision, or IQ problem.

I notice that the choices given were "Is a total disaster id like the old
one back please" and "I love it, I dont know what all the fuss is about".
It would have been interesting to see how many hits they got on "I don't
give a hoot in Hell, they both work fine for me".

Apparently, you don't agree, so I'm quite interested as to why.

Because my observations are different from those of the people who are
complaining.

 

[Tom Lake]

Why did they go and change it again? Now you're only like 17 clicks away
from finding your download--which contains 17 brand new bugs,
incidentally.
Something is definitety severely wrong with these morons. I'm shocked
they're smart enough to put out any sort of product at all...

I get there in 5 clicks for XP or 6 for ME.

1. At the site ATI.COM, click on the Drivers and Software button (the
fourth gray button across the top)
2. The Knowledge Base Screen will come up which lists the various OSes.
Choose your OS.
3. A list of Product types comes up (RADEON, All In Wonder, etc.) Click on
the type of your graphics card.
4. For ME, click more...
5. Now you're at the screen that allows you to choose either the Catalyst
drivers or MMC. Click on one of those two
6. Choose if you want the CCC or the old Control Panel and there you go.

Tom Lake

 

[Mike]

Doesn't anyone see the winXP driver links on the left of the main page?

Mike

 

[J]

What driver was this? "Windows ME" is right there 2/3 of the way down the
driver page.

See below.

I see no "bulleted text lists". Perhaps you are using some nonstandard
definition of "bullet"?

Only the main list on the right side after clicking "drivers &
software"--the one under the Knowledge Base heading. And in fact this is
what I was using at first that led to the frustration. Click through the
cluttered lists (or whatever they're called) and try to find AIW Radeon
drivers for WinMe. You'll see the "more..." nonsense. It's all very
clumsy.

However using the navigation bar, or whatever, on the left, makes things
much easier. I just ignored/didn't notice it at first. Still not
particuarly logical IMO, but much better.

More hyperbole? There's a page for the video driver and another for MMC.
Two clicks. You remind of George Jetson complaining of his gruelling day
at work at which he actually had to push the button.

Nope. To do the full install I needed Remote Wonder junk too. That's 3
separate locations for files that should be all in one place. And it's far
more than 3 clicks after all the going back and switching categories, etc.
How many clicks would there have to be before you considered it a problem?
And why should your arbitrary number be the acceptable one? You might have
a higher tolerance for stupidity--fine; I'm only asking for best efficiency.

So why do you upgrade it?

This is funny actually...I don't! Or rather I can't...at least not this
version. I just tried to go to 9.06 today and no matter what I try, the TV
app won't start. So back to 9.02 which still works for me. This is another
whole story in itself though, this utter MMC mess. File player happened to
work in 9.06 and the FF/RW volume bug is still there! That's part of the
reason I was trying to upgrade. Explain that one, or let's just admit that
that whoever's in charge is either really really dumb or extraordinarily
clumsy.

 

[Pluvious]

Doesn't anyone see the winXP driver links on the left of the main page?

Mike

Yeah.. One click and it started to download. Of course you have to
have XP for that to work and not need some old driver or MMC..etc.

Pluvious

 

[J]

Pagan wrote:

"The least experienced of users" shouldn't be upgrading video drivers
without someone to hold their hand.

Unfair. Anyone should be able to upgrade video drivers. It's hardly very
complex, although ATI stupidity--including the website itself,
ironically--makes it harder than it should be. And it's not just drivers.
Anyone should be able to update say Multimedia Center, which sometimes adds
significant new features that anyone who has an AIW card would want. But at
least you seem to concede that navigating the site requires hand-holding,
which it shouldn't.

 

[J. Clarke]

See below.


Only the main list on the right side after clicking "drivers &
software"--the one under the Knowledge Base heading. And in fact this is
what I was using at first that led to the frustration. Click through the
cluttered lists (or whatever they're called) and try to find AIW Radeon
drivers for WinMe. You'll see the "more..." nonsense. It's all very
clumsy.

What I see is that below "Knowledge base" there are 11 lines, not counting
blanks. The ninth is "Windows ME Drivers and Software". That's using
Konqueror. The same using Mozilla. The same on Lynx. The same on IE.
The same on Firefox. The same at 640x480. I see no "more...".

However using the navigation bar, or whatever, on the left, makes things
much easier. I just ignored/didn't notice it at first. Still not
particuarly logical IMO, but much better.


Nope. To do the full install I needed Remote Wonder junk too. That's 3
separate locations for files that should be all in one place.

Why should the Remote Wonder stuff be in the same place as the rest of the
drivers? It's not specific to a video board, the Remote wonder is shipped
with tuner boards as well.

And it's
far more than 3 clicks after all the going back and switching categories,
etc. How many clicks would there have to be before you considered it a
problem?
And why should your arbitrary number be the acceptable one? You might
have a higher tolerance for stupidity--fine; I'm only asking for best
efficiency.

There's no "arbitrary number". I just don't find it burdensome to click a
mouse button.

This is funny actually...I don't! Or rather I can't...at least not this
version. I just tried to go to 9.06 today and no matter what I try, the
TV
app won't start. So back to 9.02 which still works for me. This is
another
whole story in itself though, this utter MMC mess. File player happened
to
work in 9.06 and the FF/RW volume bug is still there! That's part of the
reason I was trying to upgrade. Explain that one, or let's just admit
that that whoever's in charge is either really really dumb or
extraordinarily clumsy.

Personally I use MCE.

 

[J. Clarke]

Unfair. Anyone should be able to upgrade video drivers. It's hardly very
complex, although ATI stupidity--including the website itself,
ironically--makes it harder than it should be.

It's hardly very complex until you install the driver for a different board
from the one that you have or leave out a piece or neglect to install the
correct DirectX version or screw it up in any of the many ways that it can
be screwed up.

The "least experienced users" can barely turn on a computer and think that a
3-1/2" diskette is a "hard disk" and that a CD drive is a "cupholder".
Work tech support for a while and you'll realize that "the least
experienced users" are not people who should be messing with the OS.

And it's not just drivers.
Anyone should be able to update say Multimedia Center, which sometimes
adds
significant new features that anyone who has an AIW card would want. But
at least you seem to concede that navigating the site requires
hand-holding, which it shouldn't.

No, actually, I don't concede that at all. It requires that one be able to
read the English language and know what kind of board one has and what the
application that is used to provide the TV services etc is called, in other
words it requires that one perform that horribly onerous task of R'ing TFM.

 

[J]

J wrote:

What I see is that below "Knowledge base" there are 11 lines, not counting
blanks. The ninth is "Windows ME Drivers and Software". That's using
Konqueror. The same using Mozilla. The same on Lynx. The same on IE.
The same on Firefox. The same at 640x480. I see no "more...".

This is pointless. Even if I re-explain, that the "more" thing comes later
*as you click thru and try to find the drivers* (as I said), you'll just say
it's not really that bad, or "well, you found it didn't you" or some such
thing.

Why should the Remote Wonder stuff be in the same place as the rest of the
drivers? It's not specific to a video board, the Remote wonder is shipped
with tuner boards as well.

Who cares? Once it knows my system (board/OS) I think it would be simpler
and more efficient to list *all downloads for my system* on the same page.
To answer your question then, re-read the previous sentence.

I'm not sure what it is we're discussing here. Web design is subjective,
but I'm only stating that I think improvments can be made. Do you assert
that no improvements are possible? The fact that others have problems with
this site, shows that this isn't the case. Unless you think that fewer
people having trouble with it wouldn't represent an improvement! Obviously
absurd. What is your standpoint then? Assuming little expense is required,
should ATI make any improvments to the site? The only alternative would be
to think the designers are so inept that any attempt would fail and only
make things worse.

 

[J]

It's hardly very complex until you install the driver for a different board
from the one that you have or leave out a piece or neglect to install the
correct DirectX version or screw it up in any of the many ways that it can
be screwed up.

The "least experienced users" can barely turn on a computer and think that a
3-1/2" diskette is a "hard disk" and that a CD drive is a "cupholder".
Work tech support for a while and you'll realize that "the least
experienced users" are not people who should be messing with the OS.

You probably make some valid points here. But if your intention was to
justify bad web design by saying "experts will figure it out and novices
don't belong here anyway" then that's no justification. Why should anyone
need to face clunky websites. Or perhaps you advocate bad web design to
purposely repel novices. Please say no.

 

[cowboyz]

This thread is yet another perfect example our American education system
going to hell.

Some people simply do not know how to read. And some who do know how to
read have zero comprehension skills.

In ten more years we will be another third world nation. Trully Sad.

What do you mean in 10 years? Already, America has a 1500BC attitude to
everyone else - that is, if I don't understand it or like it I'll beat it
up.

 

[cowboyz]

You probably make some valid points here. But if your intention was
to justify bad web design by saying "experts will figure it out and
novices don't belong here anyway" then that's no justification. Why
should anyone need to face clunky websites. Or perhaps you advocate
bad web design to purposely repel novices. Please say no.

You don't have to be an expert to install a driver. You don't have to be
an expert to know what your hardware is. *Everyone* should know what their
hardware is, weather they care or not is another story. I don't think
Ati's website is a bad design. I don't think it is a good one either. I
don't surf there. Once every six months or so I might decide to try a new
driver and I grab it. I have never spent more than 2 seconds looking for a
driver there.

 

[Gonzo]

What do you mean in 10 years? Already, America has a 1500BC attitude to
everyone else - that is, if I don't understand it or like it I'll beat it
up.

That's not what I meant and you would be wise to refrain from the
Anti-American postings here as it is not welcome.

This is not a political newsgroup. Please take that political nonsense
elsewhere.

 

[First of One]

Don't those people have better things to do?

For Christ's sake, it's a website you visit once a month to download new
drivers...

 

[J. Clarke]

Don't those people have better things to do?

For Christ's sake, it's a website you visit once a month to download new
drivers...

Apparently they're straining their mouse fingers by having to click 5 times.
Good thing they don't work for Spacely Sprockets.

 

[abc]

That's not what I meant and you would be wise to refrain from the
Anti-American postings here as it is not welcome.

Yes I really wish posters would be more specific, as "America" covers two
continents and a number of countries.

 

[abc]

Don't those people have better things to do?

For Christ's sake, it's a website you visit once a month to download new
drivers...

If they had better things to do they would probably not be on the internet
;-)

I seems to me it was about the same number of clicks to get the drivers on
the old site.

 

[Arthur Hagen]

Apparently they're straining their mouse fingers by having to click 5
times. Good thing they don't work for Spacely Sprockets.

It's not how many clicks it takes -- it's how easy it is to *find* the link
in the first place. Especially if your system isn't like the default system
used by the unwashed masses (XP, 1024x768, Internet Explorer, no ad
blocking, small fonts), or you don't know the terminology.

When you get your first ATI card, you have *no idea* what Hydravision,
Multimedia Center or Catalyst means, and you have to know the difference to
navigate the download area, as they can't be bothered to put in even a
one-line description to aid a newcomer. Once you know it, you don't think
about it (nor do you think about why the tree view on the left doesn't work
if you happen to use IE where it does work). As for using "font size=1",
that's soo stupid I won't even go there. In 1920x1440 it's flyspeck, even
if using large fonts. Yes, users can override this, but should they have
to, or know how to before they download the driver?

Revel in your own knowledge about this, and feel superiour to the new users
who don't know all this yet. They'll quickly catch up, if they don't bump
into so many hindrances like this and attitudes like yours that they walk
away disgusted.

I'm far from a new user, but I make software *for* new users. They have
entirely different problems from what you or I may have, and perceive things
quite differently. Unnecessary complexity and "works for me" attitudes are
really really bad. While some users are smart, and most are just smart or
adventurous enough, not all of them think like a geek, and need some hand
holding and simplicity. Here, ATI fails.