IDE controller problem? Please help!

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There are no vague generlizations.

Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:

problem seagate (4,860 hits)
problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
problem maxtor (21,800 hits)

Go figure.
 
mr said:
There are no vague generlizations.

Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:

problem seagate (4,860 hits)
problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
problem maxtor (21,800 hits)

Go figure.

I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't. They
could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users who have
'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase. Could be they're
more popular among all Abit users too. Could be they're more popular in
general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or nothing at all.

And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives ARE 'the
problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know if they are in
Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100 capable response and
fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor' with a UDMA66 drive could
cause one to erroneously think that 'the maxtor' was 'the problem'.

This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent' with a
'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves', or even
'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if there are no
other possible outcomes from the data.

I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to mention the
possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A' does not 'prove'
that Y is the case.

It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation (e.g.
There is a very strong correlation between people opening umbrellas and the
incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas causes rain. Furthermore, it
can be shown that opening them indoors has a lower correlation; it is
opening them outdoors where the correlation is strongest. So, if you want
it to rain you should open your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.

Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in the
'science' news.)
 
There are no vague generlizations.

Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:

problem seagate (4,860 hits)
problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
problem maxtor (21,800 hits)

Go figure.

Your claim implied that there was something significant to it being a
Maxtor. If you have evidence of any specific current generation drive
(who cares what happened several generations ago, since most brands have
had minor issues from time to time) that can, today, be confirmed
incompatible with any piece of equipment that "should" support it, then
please provide a single instance at least.

If you can't provide such an instance then it's at best a vague
generalization that can't be substantiated.

Who knows, perhaps your geographic region received a bad lot of drives or
you have an irresponsible deliveryperson who drops them abruptly, but
anyone buying a maxtor can expect it to be as compatible as any other
make. I'm not claiming they're the best, nor the worst drives, but
there's something very fishy going on when a select few people have such
abysmal results with drive after (Maxtor) drive while so many others have
failures or other problems no more often than typical rates for other
makes.
 
While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
(and I’ve had my own problems). I have read reports where an identical,
RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
you something was screwy with the original. I will not say this is
typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
proof for me.

Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
drive.

One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.
 
Okay, this is funny now. This isn't about "proving hard drive mfg
negligence". Shoot, in a court of law, I would lose, I know that. All's
I'm saying is I have seen this sort of thing with Maxtors more so than
the others. That's enough proof for me to say, it is possibly the drive.
 
A bare mind is a dangerous thing!

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."
 
mr said:
While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have reada
lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
(and I’ve had my own problems).

This is what's called "anecdotal evidence" and, in this case, is more
personal impression than 'evidence'.

You say you've had 'problems'. I don't doubt you, and sorry to hear it, but
you haven't given any usable description of what the problems might have
been, much less any definitive explanation for what caused them.

You've "read a lot more complaints" about 'A'. This gets back to my
previous post. Perhaps you remember reading 'more' of them because you're
convinced there are more of them, so that is what you remember. Maybe you
remember them because it reminds you of your problem. Maybe you remember
them because it fits with your already decided prejudice. And then, people
have 'problems' even when there's nothing wrong, per see, with the
equipment and maybe there's 'more' of them because more people have those
drives.

The bottom line is, what makes you think your reading is representative of
the real world and what makes you think the people posting a problem knew
what the real cause was?
I have read reports where an identical,
RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
you something was screwy with the original.

Yes it does (or that the user 'got it right' the second time), but that is
certainly no evidence of a 'compatibility problem' because the replacement
would be just as 'incompatible'.
I will not say this is
typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
proof for me.

I realize that you think it's enough but what I'm trying to explain to you
is that it's a logic flaw. You're listening to people say "I had a problem,
adding "oh, me too, me too," without the slightest idea of what the cause
was; or at least you've not told us a single definitive cause yet. I.E. All
of the broad generalizations you've presented could just as easily be
caused by something other than the Maxtor and, IMO, probably were. In fact,
I gave you an example of a 'compatibility problem' that was a BIOS issue
and not the fault of Maxtor drives.
Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
drive.

"Try a different drive" is not necessarily bad advice, as it might show if
the drive was defective for some reason, but your logic for arriving at the
recommendation is seriously flawed; to which you added the generic claim
that this was a 'built-in problem' of Maxtor drives but have, so far, not
been able to give a single explanation for it.

One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.

That is an entirely different issue (and I wonder how you determined it)
but it does suggest that your judgment is clouded by a personal dislike for
Maxtor.
 
broken pins and you 'fixed' them....hmmmm sounds very suspicious. in
what manner were they broken and how did you fix them? What ribbons
are you using 40 - 80 pins? If you use the drives separately do they
get recognized and function? Are they loaded with software and are
they partitioned, by chance both drives partitions set to active? Is
the bios configured to 'auto' detect? have you tried to clear the cmos
and boot without any drives attached then connect them and retry.
 
mr said:
There are no vague generlizations.

Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:

problem seagate (4,860 hits)
problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
problem maxtor (21,800 hits)

Go figure.

This is categoric proof that a lot more alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit
posters use Maxtor drives than any other brand.
 
Okay, this is funny now. This isn't about "proving hard drive mfg
negligence". Shoot, in a court of law, I would lose, I know that. All's
I'm saying is I have seen this sort of thing with Maxtors more so than
the others. That's enough proof for me to say, it is possibly the drive.


Ok, fair enough.

One possibility I suspect is that Maxtor is usually one of the lowest
priced brands, particularly after rebates. I then wonder if the rest of
the system one is used in is comprised of similarly low-priced parts,
particularly case and power supply, so two critical elements, heat and
power, may be contributing factors if not the primary cause.

Then again, maybe I'm completely wrong, perhaps our geographic region gets
drives from factory "X" and those are better than drives from factory
"Y"... never kept track of where all the drives here were made.
 
This is categoric proof that a lot more alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit
posters use Maxtor drives than any other brand.

Could even represent a dialog like:

User1: My Deathstar goes "clickety click" and no files, is this a problem?

User2: yes, try to copy off files after putting it in the freezer then
replace it.

User1: Are Maxtor any good?

User2: Yes, and after rebates they're often only 30-70% the price of other
brands so they sell like hotcakes.
 
:I'm sure the OP appreciates all the *help* he's getting ;-) If he's using
Win98 I'd suggest using FDISK and select the LBA option then Format.
 
kony said:
Could even represent a dialog like:

User1: My Deathstar goes "clickety click" and no files, is this a
problem?

User2: yes, try to copy off files after putting it in the freezer then
replace it.

User1: Are Maxtor any good?

User2: Yes, and after rebates they're often only 30-70% the price of
other brands so they sell like hotcakes.

For sure, that is more likely the case than anything else. I've never had a
maxtor fail personally and the first one I bought (new) was a 1.7GB. I still
have an 80MB one here that worked fine last time I used it

Now, Western Digital, I've had a few older ones of those die (in the 1-2GB
range) and they also get damn noisy as they age.

My reply above was a little facetious. ;-)
 
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