I dont think Wong is Wrong

  • Thread starter Thread starter progressive realization
  • Start date Start date
they know that Vista is not going to sell that much, so they have to find a
way to keep the company floating

This is another mistake... their goose is cooked
 
progressive said:
they know that Vista is not going to sell that much, so they have to find a
way to keep the company floating

This is another mistake... their goose is cooked
Click to expand...

Now all they have to do is not allow activations on XP to make sure
everyone goes to Linux or Apple.

$614 for Windows is ridiculous. I can get a desk top for less than that.

Alias
 
AFAICT Microsoft is not saying that any more. Promoting the idea that piracy
causes higher prices seems to have been quietly dropped from many or most of
Microsoft's statements on the matter. Microsoft has no intention of lowering
prices "per se" EXCEPT that Micosoft has indeed lowered prices.

Yup, Microsoft has LOWERED prices. Maybe not on Windows specifically but ..

... since last year you can get all manner of development tools and an
excellent SQL server for .. free. That's an incredible price reduction
considering that one used to have to shell out around 130 dollars just to
get a C++ compiler and IDE form Microsoft. Only now you can get Visual J++,
Visual Basic, Web Developer, VC++ and VC# all free. And SQL Server Express
for free (which can meet the needs of many medium and small businesses
effortlessly).

--Besides--

Back to Windows ..

... For tinkerers there are other options for obtaining Windows. You can
become a business parterner and get an OS pack, get a tech subscription or
an MSDN subscription and have next to unlimited access to Microsoft
operating systems.

As well, online, for the keen shopper, you probably can also get reasonably
priced copies of OEM Windows.Just be a bit careful.

These avenues are lesser known and don't provide the big profits for
Microsoft as the brand name computer, oem and retail markets .. but they are
there and enable flexibility to those out there more serious about Windows.



 
Think about it though. Most people will have no need for the U version as
most everything people will need is available in Basic. For those with Home
Theatres, well Premium. Businesses probably will do just fine A-OK with
either Basic [simple workstations] or Business [networking]. So many people
will not be needing to shell out for the U version.

Look at today, a lot of people are quite content with their Home version and
don't seek the Pro version.


 
Saucy said:
Think about it though. Most people will have no need for the U version as
most everything people will need is available in Basic. For those with Home
Theatres, well Premium. Businesses probably will do just fine A-OK with
either Basic [simple workstations] or Business [networking]. So many people
will not be needing to shell out for the U version.

Look at today, a lot of people are quite content with their Home version and
don't seek the Pro version.
Click to expand...

Somehow I don't get how your argument makes Ultimate any cheaper. MS
claims that stopping piracy will lower software prices and then charges
an arm and a leg for software that comes with even more draconian anti
piracy crap. Ironically, without piracy, MS' OS would have not have
gotten the market share it currently enjoys.

XP will be my last Windows OS unless Microsoft comes to its senses but I
am not holding my breath and I am learning Linux.

Alias
 
Saucy said:
AFAICT Microsoft is not saying that any more. Promoting the idea that piracy
causes higher prices seems to have been quietly dropped from many or most of
Microsoft's statements on the matter.
Click to expand...

So what's the reason for forcing paying customers in playing catch a
thief with MS?
Microsoft has no intention of lowering
prices "per se" EXCEPT that Micosoft has indeed lowered prices.

Yup, Microsoft has LOWERED prices. Maybe not on Windows specifically but ..
Click to expand...

"Maybe" not?
.. since last year you can get all manner of development tools and an
excellent SQL server for .. free. That's an incredible price reduction
considering that one used to have to shell out around 130 dollars just to
get a C++ compiler and IDE form Microsoft. Only now you can get Visual J++,
Visual Basic, Web Developer, VC++ and VC# all free. And SQL Server Express
for free (which can meet the needs of many medium and small businesses
effortlessly).
Click to expand...

Most people don't need any of the above. If they were as popular as
Windows, you can bet your panties that MS would raise the price.
--Besides--

Back to Windows ..

.. For tinkerers there are other options for obtaining Windows. You can
become a business parterner and get an OS pack, get a tech subscription or
an MSDN subscription and have next to unlimited access to Microsoft
operating systems.
Click to expand...

And those are free?
As well, online, for the keen shopper, you probably can also get reasonably
priced copies of OEM Windows.Just be a bit careful.
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like Vista will have a generic OEM.
These avenues are lesser known and don't provide the big profits for
Microsoft as the brand name computer, oem and retail markets .. but they are
there and enable flexibility to those out there more serious about Windows.
Click to expand...

Or get Ubuntu and pay nothing. They even ship the CD to Spain for free.

Alias
 
Saucy said:
AFAICT Microsoft is not saying that any more. Promoting the idea that
piracy causes higher prices seems to have been quietly dropped from
many or most of Microsoft's statements on the matter. Microsoft has
no intention of lowering prices "per se" EXCEPT that Micosoft has
indeed lowered prices.

Yup, Microsoft has LOWERED prices. Maybe not on Windows specifically
but ..

.. since last year you can get all manner of development tools and an
excellent SQL server for .. free. That's an incredible price
reduction considering that one used to have to shell out around 130
dollars just to get a C++ compiler and IDE form Microsoft. Only now
you can get Visual J++, Visual Basic, Web Developer, VC++ and VC# all
free. And SQL Server Express for free (which can meet the needs of
many medium and small businesses effortlessly).
Click to expand...

This is not done in an effort to 'lower prices'. This is an attemp by MS to
get people interested in the new development tools that will be needed for
developing 3rd party apps on Vista. Every item you list above is a
development tool. Lowering prices is just a temporary side effect. As a
matter of fact, it makes sense to me that MS would use all these free tools
as an excuse to raise the prices for Vista just like they have. Over $600
for Vista Premium? That is obscene! I knew that paying $300 for XP Prof
was rediculous, and it's only getting worse. Thae ca$h cow is never fat
ehough, you know.
--Besides--

Back to Windows ..

.. For tinkerers there are other options for obtaining Windows. You
can become a business parterner and get an OS pack, get a tech
subscription or an MSDN subscription and have next to unlimited
access to Microsoft operating systems.
Click to expand...

All very expensive also.
 
Well, when you get an MSDN OS subscription you have access to just about all
the Microsoft Operating Systems, all for roughly around a grand U.S. You
get a developers license, of course, but for the developer/tinkerer so
what? - You're supposed to be "in to" computers anyway.

If I were in any other business, say automotive, I wouldn't not expect to
have to shell out a bit on tools etc.

That said, access to Microsoft operating systems is rather inexpensive.

I suppose if one had only a dollar to one's name, it would be awfully
costly. But you would probably have other things to worry about.

Moreover,

once you have a computer with Windows (and if you get a brand name Windows
constitutes only about 50 bucks give or take of the price) you can get scads
of development tools for free from Microsoft. You can compute, write
programs for yourself etc. etc. til the cows come home .. all for around 50
bucks (+ or -) for the software [the pre-installed Windows].

So, sure there's one setup called "Ultimate" that's rather pricey obtained
as a full retail .. but there's a heck of a lot one can do with other less
pricely versions. Very few people really "need" ultimate in and of itself to
meet their computing needs. So if Microsoft wants to create some 'ultimate'
version and charge for it, who are you or I to say they can't? Lincoln used
to sell a very expensive "Bill Blass" two-door of its Mark series .. so
what? It's not that anyone needed it, but some collectors or people with
money to burn might buy it. If Lincoln could sell some to people, well - at
the time - kudos to them for their business success.
 
Well if you think the price is too high offer them less. Bill or Steve might
give the OK.


I don't think that Vista U can't be had for less than that though. It's like
you are seeking out the very highest price you can find for it. There are
boxes of chocolate out there going for a hundred bucks, doesn't mean I'm
going to pay that price for chocolate.

So what if there's a pricy version of Windows? The Lincoln people used to
sell a "Bill Blass" version of its two-door. They did it for fun and profit.
Yes, it was more expensive buts ome collectors and people with money to burn
might buy it. Kudos to Lincoln for making money off the thing and adding
spice to their line-up.

Now regards anti-piracy. I made my opinion clear in other posts under a
different name and have nothing further to say. Either one can live with it,
can't, or can wait for the courts to decide. I don't care about those issues
vis a vis Windows Vista anymore, I've already figured what I am going to do
in that regard and won't discuss it further here.
 
Saucy, a sufferer of cranial-rectal inversion, fluffed:
Well, when you get an MSDN OS subscription you have access to just
about all the Microsoft Operating Systems, all for roughly around a
grand U.S. You get a developers license, of course, but for the
developer/tinkerer so what? - You're supposed to be "in to" computers
anyway.
Click to expand...

If you chose a different OS, say Linux, you could get all the equivelent
things for little to no cost.
If I were in any other business, say automotive, I wouldn't not
expect to have to shell out a bit on tools etc.

That said, access to Microsoft operating systems is rather
inexpensive.
Click to expand...

It surprises me you continue wit this FUD propaganda. You must be an MS
stockholder who has a vested interest in seeing the ca$h cow grow.
I suppose if one had only a dollar to one's name, it would be awfully
costly. But you would probably have other things to worry about.

Moreover,

once you have a computer with Windows (and if you get a brand name
Windows constitutes only about 50 bucks give or take of the price)
Click to expand...

This is with XP. It has yet to be seen with Vista! I won't hold my breath.
you can get scads of development tools for free from Microsoft. You
can compute, write programs for yourself etc. etc. til the cows come
home .. all for around 50 bucks (+ or -) for the software [the
pre-installed Windows].

So, sure there's one setup called "Ultimate" that's rather pricey
obtained as a full retail .. but there's a heck of a lot one can do
with other less pricely versions. Very few people really "need"
ultimate in and of itself to meet their computing needs. So if
Microsoft wants to create some 'ultimate' version and charge for it,
who are you or I to say they can't?
Click to expand...

I never said anything about "MS can or can't" anything. I'm just giving my
opinion about it as an informed consumer who is interested in protecting my
rights.
Lincoln used to sell a very
expensive "Bill Blass" two-door of its Mark series .. so what? It's
not that anyone needed it, but some collectors or people with money
to burn might buy it. If Lincoln could sell some to people, well - at
the time - kudos to them for their business success.
Click to expand...

I bet he never had a license on it that infringed on the consumers' rights!
 
Saucy said:
Well if you think the price is too high offer them less. Bill or Steve might
give the OK.



I don't think that Vista U can't be had for less than that though. It's like
you are seeking out the very highest price you can find for it. There are
boxes of chocolate out there going for a hundred bucks, doesn't mean I'm
going to pay that price for chocolate.
Click to expand...

I suspect it will be even pricier in Europe, what with the bad habit of
making one dollar equal one euro.
So what if there's a pricy version of Windows? The Lincoln people used to
sell a "Bill Blass" version of its two-door. They did it for fun and profit.
Yes, it was more expensive buts ome collectors and people with money to burn
might buy it. Kudos to Lincoln for making money off the thing and adding
spice to their line-up.
Click to expand...

Comparing real property to intellectual property is absurd.
Now regards anti-piracy. I made my opinion clear in other posts under a
different name and have nothing further to say. Either one can live with it,
can't, or can wait for the courts to decide. I don't care about those issues
vis a vis Windows Vista anymore, I've already figured what I am going to do
in that regard and won't discuss it further here.
Click to expand...

I'm learning Ubuntu. The anti piracy crap just doesn't sit well with me
at all.

Alias
 
Inline:



Yeah, Linux is free if your time has no value. The fonts *to this day* still
screw up on Linux. I saw a guy install the new RedHat Fedora core 6 and he
lost the fonts to scraggly ones within about two hours (and couldn't get the
'good' ones back) - it's pathetic.



Money is good, where there is no wrong doing.



Well, you won't have to hold for long. The pre-installed Basic/Home
versions of Vista will not be substantially far from XP Home in price.

you can get scads of development tools for free from Microsoft. You
can compute, write programs for yourself etc. etc. til the cows come
home .. all for around 50 bucks (+ or -) for the software [the
pre-installed Windows].

So, sure there's one setup called "Ultimate" that's rather pricey
obtained as a full retail .. but there's a heck of a lot one can do
with other less pricely versions. Very few people really "need"
ultimate in and of itself to meet their computing needs. So if
Microsoft wants to create some 'ultimate' version and charge for it,
who are you or I to say they can't?
Click to expand...

I never said anything about "MS can or can't" anything. I'm just
giving my opinion about it as an informed consumer who is interested
in protecting my rights.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Well your opinion and/or motives are confused. Microsoft is a business. And
one (but not all [sometimes people forget that]) of the reasons businesses
exist is to make money. There's everything right about making a profit, even
a large one as long as no wrong is done. If customers want to make use of
the products and services Microsoft offers and are willing to pay the prices
asked, then fine - free country, get used to it. And just as a note,
Microsoft is one of the most generous companies out there in terms of
charity initiatives.



But he had to have a license to aquire the privilege to drive one. He had to
register the car with the government and license the car. The car had a
registration number in the corner of the dash under the windsheild installed
at the factory. He had to follow the rules of the road when he drove it etc.
etc. blah blah blah

But I am not getting into this particular discussion. I have made my
opinions on the anti-piracy issue known in other threads using a different
name.

Either you can live with it, can't, or will wait for the courts to decide.
I've made up my mind about what I am going to do and will not discuss it
further.
 
This is not done in an effort to 'lower prices'. This is an attemp by MS
to get people interested in the new development tools that will be needed
for developing 3rd party apps on Vista. Every item you list above is a
development tool. Lowering prices is just a temporary side effect. As a
matter of fact, it makes sense to me that MS would use all these free
tools as an excuse to raise the prices for Vista just like they have.
Over $600 for Vista Premium? That is obscene! I knew that paying $300
for XP Prof was rediculous, and it's only getting worse. Thae ca$h cow is
never fat ehough, you know.
Click to expand...
</snip>

$300 for XP Pro??? Who ever paid that much? I've seen it in Best Buy here at
$225 at the highest point and I paid only $89 for it in OEM version from
Tiger Direct a year and a half ago as a bundled deal with a hard drive.
$300??

Also in this tread and on several web sites it's been reported as being
priced at $399. That's a lot less.... but I do agree that this is still TO
MUCH!! That price make piracy very tempting. Paying $89 for an OS is no big
deal but when it reaches the price of a low end desktop or laptop computer I
have to draw the line. Maybe I will finally make the jump to Linux this time
around.

Regards,
Skon
 
Windows constitutes only about 50 bucks give or take of the price) you can
get scads
of development tools for free from Microsoft. You can compute, write
programs for yourself etc. etc. til the cows come home .. all for around
50
bucks (+ or -) for the software [the pre-installed Windows].

So, sure there's one setup called "Ultimate" that's rather pricey obtained
as a full retail .. but there's a heck of a lot one can do with other less
pricely versions.
Click to expand...
</snip>

That brings up a question. Will only the other versions of Vista be
available preloaded? Or will some OEM's offer Vista Ultimate as a preloaded
option?

Regards,
Skon
 
Saucy, a sufferer of cranial-rectal inversion, fluffed:
Inline:




Yeah, Linux is free if your time has no value. The fonts *to this
day* still screw up on Linux. I saw a guy install the new RedHat
Fedora core 6 and he lost the fonts to scraggly ones within about two
hours (and couldn't get the 'good' ones back) - it's pathetic.
Click to expand...

And you know this from personal, hands on experience, right? Linux is not
perfect, but I know this because I've been running it ever since Fedora Core
3. I can do everything on linux that I do on my XP machine minus games and
XP can run my games. No need for Vista. If you have not tried Linux
yourself, then you talking out your arse.
Money is good, where there is no wrong doing.
Click to expand...

There is reason for mistrust against MS because of their past wrong doing.
They have been convicted by multiple gov'ts across the globe for anti-trust
violation.
Well, you won't have to hold for long. The pre-installed Basic/Home
versions of Vista will not be substantially far from XP Home in price.


Well your opinion and/or motives are confused. Microsoft is a
business.
Click to expand...

One that has no right to swindle me just because I purchase their
product(s)!
And one (but not all [sometimes people forget that]) of the
reasons businesses exist is to make money. There's everything right
about making a profit, even a large one as long as no wrong is done.
If customers want to make use of the products and services Microsoft
offers and are willing to pay the prices asked, then fine - free
country, get used to it. And just as a note, Microsoft is one of the
most generous companies out there in terms of charity initiatives.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Bill and Steve really value that kind of marketing.
But he had to have a license to aquire the privilege to drive one. He
had to register the car with the government and license the car. The
car had a registration number in the corner of the dash under the
windsheild installed at the factory. He had to follow the rules of
the road when he drove it etc. etc. blah blah blah
Click to expand...

Very poor comparison as rules issued from the gov't like requiring a license
to drive, registration, rules of the road are all laws. It IS illegal to
break the law. MS is not the gov't and not a law unto itself - i.e. they
can make a license for their product, but it is not a law because they
cannot issue laws. The gov't can issue laws, MS cannot. If you go against
an MS license with one of their products, then it is merely a contract
dispute that their only recourse for is taking you to court. Breaking a law
and having a contract dispute are 2 completely different situations, and
therefore not comparable.
But I am not getting into this particular discussion. I have made my
opinions on the anti-piracy issue known in other threads using a
different name.

Either you can live with it, can't, or will wait for the courts to
decide. I've made up my mind about what I am going to do and will not
discuss it further.
Click to expand...

Suit yourself. It's your perogitive.
 
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