How upgrade old AMD socket-A system?

[Rob Morley]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:15:17 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

[...]

It's not such a bad spec for basic office/internet work. Of
course it might work better with Linux rather than Windows.

Only if KDE4 was avoided...

I wouldn't know about that, I'm a Gnome person but Xubuntu might be
a better choice for this sort of spec.

Nah, Mepis...wait! Don't let's go there ;-)

There's only one way to find out ... FIGHT!!!

 

[Chris Whelan]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:20:25 GMT

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:15:17 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

[...]

It's not such a bad spec for basic office/internet work. Of
course it might work better with Linux rather than Windows.

Only if KDE4 was avoided...

I wouldn't know about that, I'm a Gnome person but Xubuntu might be a
better choice for this sort of spec.

Nah, Mepis...wait! Don't let's go there ;-)

There's only one way to find out ... FIGHT!!!

Chris

 

[Peter Wilson]

I do not necessarily agree there, I updated my backup system from an
XP1800 to an XP 2200 and while not revolutionary it was noticeably
faster, this gent is talking about going from a Duron with a limited
cache to an XP with a much larger cache, that is a generation newer
as well as with a much higher multiplier, while not as good as
replacing a motherboard with something modern it should be noted
that these go for only 5 to 10 pounds and thus make a cheap and
quick upgrade.

Where in the UK can I get old cpu's like Athlon 2200 (up to Athlon
2600)? Don't say ebay!

 

[Chris Whelan]

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:39:50 +0100, Peter Wilson wrote:

[...]

Where in the UK can I get old cpu's like Athlon 2200 (up to Athlon
2600)? Don't say ebay!

I've built and upgraded a number of basic PC's for folk with little
money. I've therefore had to deal with the auction site that you don't
want mentioned.

Buying memory in this way is risky; about one in ten proves faulty,
usually because it is sent wrapped in normal bubble-wrap! Motherboards
can also be a problem as sometimes the buyer is genuinely unaware that
the faulty computer they are selling as parts actually has the MB failed.

I have never had a faulty CPU however, out of the dozens I have bought.

The fastest CPU in any range will always be the hardest and therefore the
most expensive to find second hand. 2600 are quite rare; 2400 less so.
Bear in mind by the way that there are two versions of the 2600; one that
supports a 266MHz fsb, and one that is for 333MHz boards. If you need to
know more, look here:

http://www.cpu-world.com/

About your only alternatives are to ask here:

uk.adverts.computer

or to see if you have a local repair shop that will sell you redundant
parts.

The last of this series of CPU was introduced seven years ago, so many,
many of them are now in land-fill.

Chris

 

[Paul]

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:39:50 +0100, Peter Wilson wrote:

[...]

Where in the UK can I get old cpu's like Athlon 2200 (up to Athlon
2600)? Don't say ebay!

I've built and upgraded a number of basic PC's for folk with little
money. I've therefore had to deal with the auction site that you don't
want mentioned.

Buying memory in this way is risky; about one in ten proves faulty,
usually because it is sent wrapped in normal bubble-wrap! Motherboards
can also be a problem as sometimes the buyer is genuinely unaware that
the faulty computer they are selling as parts actually has the MB failed.

I have never had a faulty CPU however, out of the dozens I have bought.

The fastest CPU in any range will always be the hardest and therefore the
most expensive to find second hand. 2600 are quite rare; 2400 less so.
Bear in mind by the way that there are two versions of the 2600; one that
supports a 266MHz fsb, and one that is for 333MHz boards. If you need to
know more, look here:

http://www.cpu-world.com/

About your only alternatives are to ask here:

uk.adverts.computer

or to see if you have a local repair shop that will sell you redundant
parts.

The last of this series of CPU was introduced seven years ago, so many,
many of them are now in land-fill.

Chris

Another option would be a Mobile (with the right socket type of S462),
as those have unlocked multipliers. I used a 2600 XP-M and ran it as
a 3200+. The nominal FSB was FSB266 but being based on Barton,
that one had no problem dealing with FSB400. The only problem dealing
with a processor like that, is finding a motherboard with proper
multiplier controls, so you can program the frequency you want.
The motherboard I used, only had four bit multiplier control, and
not the five bits required. So I was restricted to 200MHz * 12.5 = 2500MHz.
I'd have needed a wire mod, if I wanted to try the upper multiplier
values. But at FSB400, there wasn't a need for them. With a
motherboard with a lower FSB, you would need the upper multiplier
values (i.e. 133 * 16.5 = 2200MHz).

So there are solutions other than the 2600 XP, but you have to be
a glutton for punishment to bother with that route Just finding
the old URLs and references on what to do, is taxing.

http://fab51.com/cpu/barton/athlon-e23.html

http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.html?/html/workshop/pinmod/amd_pinmod.html

******** Processor table from that era (Mobiles not included) *******

Family Core P.R. Pkg CPU Cache Mult Core Tmax Power
Freq Clk Volts

XP Model 10 2200 (3200+) OPGA 200 512 11x 1.65V 85oC 60.4W
Barton 2100 (3000+) OPGA 200 512 10.5x 1.65V 85oC 53.7W

XP Model 10 2167 (3000+) OPGA 166 512 13x 1.65V 85oC 58.4W
Barton 2083 (2800+) OPGA 166 512 12.5x 1.65V 85oC 53.7W
1917 (2600+) OPGA 166 512 11.5x 1.65V 85oC 53.7W
1833 (2500+) OPGA 166 512 11x 1.65V 85oC 53.7W

XP Model 8 2167 (2700+) OPGA 166 256 13x 1.65V 85oC 62.0W
Thoroughbred 2083 (2600+) OPGA 166 256 12.5x 1.65V 85oC 62.0W

XP Model 8 2133 (2600+) OPGA 133 256 16x 1.65V 85oC 62.0W <--- hard to find
Thoroughbred 2000 (2400+) OPGA 133 256 15x 1.65V 85oC 62.0W
CPU ID 0681 1800 (2200+) OPGA 133 256 13.5x 1.60V 85oC 57.0W
1733 (2100+) OPGA 133 256 13x 1.60V 90oC 56.3W
1667 (2000+) OPGA 133 256 12.5x 1.60V 90oC 55.7W
1533 (1800+) OPGA 133 256 11.5x 1.60V 90oC 55.7W
1467 (1700+) OPGA 133 256 11x 1.60V 90oC 55.7W

XP Model 8 1800 (2200+) OPGA 133 256 13.5x 1.65V 85oC 61.7W
Thoroughbred 1733 (2100+) OPGA 133 256 13x 1.60V 90oC 56.4W
CPU ID 0680 1667 (2000+) OPGA 133 256 12.5x 1.65V 90oC 54.7W
1667 (2000+) OPGA 133 256 12.5x 1.60V 90oC 54.7W
1600 (1900+) OPGA 133 256 12x 1.50V 90oC 47.7W
1533 (1800+) OPGA 133 256 11.5x 1.50V 90oC 46.3W
1467 (1700+) OPGA 133 256 11x 1.50V 90oC 44.9W

XP Model 6 1733 (2100+) OPGA 133 256 13x 1.75V 90oC 64.3W
Palomino 1667 (2000+) OPGA 133 256 12.5x 1.75V 90oC 62.5W
1600 (1900+) OPGA 133 256 12x 1.75V 90oC 60.7W
1533 (1800+) OPGA 133 256 11.5x 1.75V 90oC 59.2W
1467 (1700+) OPGA 133 256 11x 1.75V 90oC 57.4W
1400 (1600+) OPGA 133 256 10.5x 1.75V 90oC 56.3W
1333 (1500+) OPGA 133 256 10x 1.75V 90oC 53.8W
********

Example of a 2600 XP-M, not from E-*** If you bother
with something like this, you may want to find a capable motherboard
to go with it, something with five bit multiplier control. I think
there may also be true Notebook chips, where the socket type is
S1 ? So there is an opportunity to confuse these. These are
"Desktop Replacement" for S462.

http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=4674

Scroll to the bottom, to see some more model numbers. Mine might have
been the FQQ4C. The rating doesn't matter particularly, as they're
an overclocking experiment. The difference between a 2500+ XP-M
and a 2600+ XP-M, didn't seen to raise the overclock level that much.
(The unlocked multiplier, is what makes them prime overclocking
material.)

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/TYPE-Athlon XP-M.html

The Mobiles have a different voltage coding, and by default,
signal a lower value than you might like. Setting the voltage
to 1.65V when operating it at 2200MHz, seemed to be the sweet
spot (but your motherboard needs a Vcore adjustment to do that).

Loads of fun, back in its time.

Paul

 

[Adrian C]

Where in the UK can I get old cpu's like Athlon 2200 (up to Athlon
2600)? Don't say ebay!

Freecycle.

I could have said www.cex.co.uk but I note on their website that they
have now cleared out all of the slower AMD chips, and PC100/133 SDRAMs
as well.

 

[Bernard Peek]

Freecycle.

I could have said www.cex.co.uk but I note on their website that they
have now cleared out all of the slower AMD chips, and PC100/133 SDRAMs
as well.

It's worth pointing out that there are complete machines of that sort of
vintage coming up on FreeCycle. My main Linux box is a rather nice
1.8GHz Alienware system that came from FreeCycle.

 

[TJ]

I want to get a faster cpu but not one that is very hot or which must
have a bigger PSU. I once thought of getting an AMD Athlon . I'm in the
Uk.

I think a Throroughbred B (AXDA2600DKV3C) has a 266 MHz FSB and will drop
into my mobo maybe without a PSU upgrade or more cooling.

I've been toying with a similar idea off and on for a while myself. In
my case, my system is doing just fine the way it is, for now, but I'm
curious about just how much I might be able to squeeze out of it with a
minimum of investment.

My system has a Biostar M7VIG Pro-D motherboard, which has a standard
FSB of 266 MHz. (I'm just using the numbers from the spec sheet here.
Please forgive me.) It is populated with 2 GB of DDR 333 RAM, the
maximum it can handle. (The specs are for DDR 266, but this is what I
found, and it works great.) The processor is an Athlon XP 1900+,
whichever version won't overclock very well. (I forget which that is,
but I knew a year ago.) For what it's worth, I also have a GeForce 4
MX4000 AGP video card with 128MB of onboard memory.

I use Mandriva 2009.1 Linux about 98% of the time, but I have been known
to dual-boot into Windows 98SE when forced to.

Some time back I investigated overclocking, which is when I discovered
this processor won't. What I found at the time in the BIOS was a menu
for setting "CPU Host/PCI Clock" frequency (tied together) with four
possible settings. There was "Default," which is where it is now. There
was also 133/66/33, 140/70/35, and 166/66/33. There is no way to change
vcore or the multiplier from the BIOS. Vcore is reported at 1.70.

When I tried to overclock with this processor, everything locked out and
I had to use the emergency method to restore things. At the time, I was
also using 512MB of DDR266 RAM, which I suppose may or may not make a
difference. What I'm wondering now is, if I were to set the above value
to 166/66/33, could I successfully use something like an Athlon XP 3200+
with a 333 FSB on this system?

BTW, I have NO problem purchasing a processor on Ebay. I buy stuff on
Ebay all the time, and rarely have any problems.

TJ

 

[Olafur Gunnlaugsson]

The AMD Duron 1800 runs at 1800 MHz.
The AMD Athlon XP 1800+ runs at 1533 MHz.

However, the Athlon has larger L2 cache (256KB versus 64KB)

at the time the Duron applecore benchmarked at something like 10% less
than eq Athlon, however the grandfather post was referring to the 2600
Athlon going from an 1800 duron, not staying at the same level, and in
fact 133 bus 2800+ Athlons were also made (last letter in name C versus
D for the 200 variants) and those boards also work with 2800 Athlon MP
versions (all of them 133 bus), all of which represent an upgrade from
the D1800

 

[Olafur Gunnlaugsson]

Where in the UK can I get old cpu's like Athlon 2200 (up to Athlon
2600)? Don't say ebay!

Ask your local system builder or second hand PC shop, they keep old
parts in droves just in case, in fact if this post had been a week
earlier I could have supplied a 2800+ MP for the grandfather poster for
a tenner, I bought a pair for 20 at a second hand PC store in either
Dunstable or Luton a few weeks back in order to upgrade my own KX266 so
had one spare

And what is wrong with ebay exactly? apart from the odd clueless
idiot/criminal, you get them everywhere, they are not exactly a recent
invention

 

[Olafur Gunnlaugsson]

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:39:50 +0100, Peter Wilson wrote:

[...]

Where in the UK can I get old cpu's like Athlon 2200 (up to Athlon
2600)? Don't say ebay!

I've built and upgraded a number of basic PC's for folk with little
money. I've therefore had to deal with the auction site that you don't
want mentioned.

Another supply for cheap mother boards is RMA parts, about 80% of these
are actually new and the rest repaired boards, some suppliers like Dabs
sell them on their homepage, the price drops down considerably when the
boards get out of productio, I pay around 15 to 25 pound for a RMA board
that is out of production but still has a current chipset etc

 

[Olafur Gunnlaugsson]

The server systems I saw at Dell are a lot more expensive.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get a basic machine and add a PCI RAID card?

What he was saying is that you are asking about a redundancy system but
what you really need is a backup system, since redundancy is no
guarantee when it comes to loss of data

RAID is great for servers since they help with QOS, but backups are more
important for PC's especially backups that you can take offsite either
mechanically or electronically

 

[TJ]

I've got a spare Athlon XP 3000+ (333FSB) and a story to tell
about it, but it wouldn't be any help to you.

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/mb/content.php?S_ID=270

"Chipset: VIA KM266 / VT8235"

That chipset is designed to run at 266MHz. Most of the later
Socket A CPUs (the only ones that could be described as even
slightly worth the bother of an upgrade) run at 333MHz FSB.

Your BIOS setup screen's claim to offer 333MHz FSB would
involve overclocking the motherboard chipset 25% above spec:
a marginal prospect, and one that is only worth doing before
a faster replacement chip is invented.

Oh, well. I guess what's been said for years is true... "There ain't no
such thing as a free lunch."

TJ

 

[TJ]

I've got a spare Athlon XP 3000+ (333FSB) and a story to tell
about it, but it wouldn't be any help to you.

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/mb/content.php?S_ID=270

"Chipset: VIA KM266 / VT8235"

That chipset is designed to run at 266MHz. Most of the later
Socket A CPUs (the only ones that could be described as even
slightly worth the bother of an upgrade) run at 333MHz FSB.

Your BIOS setup screen's claim to offer 333MHz FSB would
involve overclocking the motherboard chipset 25% above spec:
a marginal prospect, and one that is only worth doing before
a faster replacement chip is invented.

Just wanted to say that I bought this outfit October 2003 from a small
custom manufacturer that has since gone out of business. It has served
me well, and continues to do so, following the installation of a few
improvements over the years. As long as it continues to do what I need,
I'll keep using it as it is. Mostly, I was just curious.

Thanks for the info.

TJ