How to get Desktop Search to Stop Incrementing OE Compact Check Co

[Bruce Hagen]

From what you have provided, I am at a loss for a fix. This is why I
forwarded to OE General. Hoping that someone else can come up with an idea I
am not ware of. I can say that you are the first I have encountered that
stopping WDS indexing of OE did not resolve the issue if that in fact is the
only program you have that is /touching/ OE.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
Imperial Beach, CA

A last note to a depressing day:

I removed the Compact Check Count registry entries and renamed msoe.dll.

After a reboot I found that the registry enries had been recreated (and
incremented to 1) and that a new, fresh copy of msoe.dll had been placed
in
the \Program Files\Outlook Express directory. Turns out that there's 4-5
virgin copies of msoe.dll on the hd, in various places, and some program
was
smart enough to go find one and copy it in. I'm guessing that that
program
would be Windows Search? Certainly Windows Search is the culprit as far
as
incrementing the counter goes (at least in my case).

I guess, at the end of the day, I have a better idea for what's going on,
but I don't understand why this shoould be happening just now - (unless
there's been an update to the contrary) nothing much has happened Windows
Search-wise, that I know of. So why did this start now?

And what's the next step?

 

[Dave Jenkins]

I've had XP3 installed for a long time - maybe 10 months? Long enough to
forget the circumstances surrounding its installation. I do know that it was
fairly uneventful. But haven't the foggiest notion of whther McAfee was
running at the time.

I haven't had any other strange problems happening (that I know about). I
guess I'll just have to live with it.

But doesn't it seem obvious that if Windows Search is jiggering with
directory entries for OE, and the user isn't using OE, that WIndows Search
could make some sort of a test and refrain from making the registry change in
certain cases?

And what kind of a procedure is it that unilaterally reinstalls msoe.dll,
when a copy of the dll is not available in the Oultook Express directory?
Shouldn't it at least ask?

It seems like a lot of fingers are being pointed away from the true culprit
here. Just sayin'.

--
Dave Jenkins
K5KX

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the [initial?]
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.

One or more options/settings in an ever-growing number of third-party
applications may be disallowing the change(s) from "sticking". These include
but are not limited to Ad-aware Pro Ad-Watch, Spybot Tea Timer,
SpywareBlaster, SpySweeper, Spyware Doctor, CounterSpy, AVG Anti-Spyware,
Norton AntiVirus, McAfee VirusScan and/or Antispyware, NOD32, and Zone Alarm
(Free, Pro, & Security Suite).

And if any of the real-time protections above were running in the background
when you installed WinXP SP3, you've probably got worse problems.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

So, just kind of recapping here:

We're at a dead end? We know who the culprit is (Windows Desktop Search)
and we know that it's not being explicitly told to index OE files. We
know
that the only .dbx files remaining are skeleton ones, but we don't know
why
they got created? And we know that I don't have Nero Scout, MailWashing,
RAKDLL.DLL, etc. installed.

I'm going to try renaming the registry entry as has been reported
elsewhere,
but I believe that I may have tried it before and it got recreated,
though.

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the install
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.

 

[Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM]

Tell WDS not to index the OE files.

Windows automatically reinstalls files it considers essention, like
msoe.dll.

I've had XP3 installed for a long time - maybe 10 months? Long enough to
forget the circumstances surrounding its installation. I do know that it
was
fairly uneventful. But haven't the foggiest notion of whther McAfee was
running at the time.

I haven't had any other strange problems happening (that I know about). I
guess I'll just have to live with it.

But doesn't it seem obvious that if Windows Search is jiggering with
directory entries for OE, and the user isn't using OE, that WIndows Search
could make some sort of a test and refrain from making the registry change
in
certain cases?

And what kind of a procedure is it that unilaterally reinstalls msoe.dll,
when a copy of the dll is not available in the Oultook Express directory?
Shouldn't it at least ask?

It seems like a lot of fingers are being pointed away from the true
culprit
here. Just sayin'.

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the [initial?]
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.

One or more options/settings in an ever-growing number of third-party
applications may be disallowing the change(s) from "sticking". These
include
but are not limited to Ad-aware Pro Ad-Watch, Spybot Tea Timer,
SpywareBlaster, SpySweeper, Spyware Doctor, CounterSpy, AVG Anti-Spyware,
Norton AntiVirus, McAfee VirusScan and/or Antispyware, NOD32, and Zone
Alarm
(Free, Pro, & Security Suite).

And if any of the real-time protections above were running in the
background
when you installed WinXP SP3, you've probably got worse problems.

So, just kind of recapping here:

We're at a dead end? We know who the culprit is (Windows Desktop
Search)
and we know that it's not being explicitly told to index OE files. We
know
that the only .dbx files remaining are skeleton ones, but we don't know
why
they got created? And we know that I don't have Nero Scout,
MailWashing,
RAKDLL.DLL, etc. installed.

I'm going to try renaming the registry entry as has been reported
elsewhere,
but I believe that I may have tried it before and it got recreated,
though.

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the install
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.


Crossposted to OE General. Please see the original post in XP
Help_And_Support to see what has been done so far. Posts were snipped
so
I
can't forward them all.


First of all, if I'm in the wrong forum for this - please let me know
and
I'll move on over.

I have had a problem that's deviled many other folks, and like them
I've
spent days trying to dope it out: I'm getting a popup driven by a OE
registry
value ("Compact Check Count") that whines about it being time to
compact
OE
messages. I'm not using OE at all - use Outlook 2007 on XP SP3. The
Compact
Check Count counter gets incremented to a critical value, and then
the
popup
is generated.

So why is that counter being manipulated on my system? I've seen
many
posts
listing possible causes, and so I downloaded Procmon and quickly saw
that
it
is Windows Desktop Search that's incrementing the counter.

I found that the Control Panel Indexing Options included 2 Outlook
Express
locations - problem solved! Well, not quite: I've unchecked those
locations
(it's not clear to me how to remove those locations entirely from the
eligible list, but they're unchecked) and what's now left checked
there
is
MS
OneNote, MS Outlook and Documents and Settings, all for my userid
(nobody
else uses this PC).

So: How can I keep this counter from being manipulated by Windows
Desktop
Search?

(As a last-gasp measure, I'm rebuiding the index -- I'll post later
if
that
made any difference.)

Thanks for your help.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Repost link to entire thread history:
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...nd_support/browse_frm/thread/a09d4e967028e6c9

I'll give you my version of Bruce's earlier post/explanation. It's helped
the vast majority of other users who have encountered the behavior...

<canned>
See this June 2008 discussion about this WinXP SP3-specific problem:
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...ss.general/browse_frm/thread/fcd35fbfa457fd6f

For reference, here's a current list of items known to cause this behavior
(which is NOT being seen by the vast majority of OE users) in "most often
seen" order

• Nero plug-in(s) including Nero Scout [1];
• Windows (Desktop) Search is installed
[FIX: Uninstall the application or CONTROL PANEL | INDEXING OPTIONS |
MODIFY | Clear the check box for Outlook Express (i.e., EML, NWS, & DBX
files)];
• IBM Rapid Access keyboard (driver) RAKDLL.DLL;
• Windows Live Mail is or had been installed;
• Various & sundry anti-virus applications (including Norton & McAfee);
• Various & sundry anti-spyware applications;
• Various & sundry third-party firewalls;
• Any/all of the above running when WinXP SP3 was installed;
• Disk defragmentation, need for;
• Using Visual Basic DoCmd.SendObject command to create an email;
• Using any number third-party applications (e.g., accounting software;
FileMaker 6) to send emails by via Outlook Express;
• MailWasher; and/or
• Programatically opening EML files while OE is closed (e.g., creating a
New Message via Address Book).

===============
[1] IN RE Nero Scout, see Item 2.3 on page 8 here:
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero8/scout/NeroScout_Enu.pdf

Also see http://www.nero.com/eng/support-faq.html?s=sub&t=Scout

And what kind of a procedure is it that unilaterally reinstalls msoe.dll,
when a copy of the dll is not available in the Oultook Express directory?
Shouldn't it at least ask?

Like IE, OE is part and parcel of WinXP. While you can remove access to
either or both of them, you cannot literally remove them: They're protected
system files and will be replaced when you reboot if deleted.

Neither Bruce nor I recommended or suggested renaming or doing anything else
to MSOE.DLL. Neither of us recommended or suggested deleting anything in
the Registry. [cf.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/3941f76e7cf317c7]

Best of luck tracking down the cause of the behavior (e.g., uninstalling
Windows Search v4.x).
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

I've had XP3 installed for a long time - maybe 10 months? Long enough to
forget the circumstances surrounding its installation. I do know that it
was fairly uneventful. But haven't the foggiest notion of whther McAfee
was
running at the time.

I haven't had any other strange problems happening (that I know about). I
guess I'll just have to live with it.

But doesn't it seem obvious that if Windows Search is jiggering with
directory entries for OE, and the user isn't using OE, that WIndows Search
could make some sort of a test and refrain from making the registry change
in certain cases?

And what kind of a procedure is it that unilaterally reinstalls msoe.dll,
when a copy of the dll is not available in the Oultook Express directory?
Shouldn't it at least ask?

It seems like a lot of fingers are being pointed away from the true
culprit
here. Just sayin'.

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the [initial?]
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.

One or more options/settings in an ever-growing number of third-party
applications may be disallowing the change(s) from "sticking". These
include but are not limited to Ad-aware Pro Ad-Watch, Spybot Tea Timer,
SpywareBlaster, SpySweeper, Spyware Doctor, CounterSpy, AVG Anti-Spyware,
Norton AntiVirus, McAfee VirusScan and/or Antispyware, NOD32, and Zone
Alarm (Free, Pro, & Security Suite).

And if any of the real-time protections above were running in the
background when you installed WinXP SP3, you've probably got worse
problems.

So, just kind of recapping here:

We're at a dead end? We know who the culprit is (Windows Desktop
Search)
and we know that it's not being explicitly told to index OE files. We
know
that the only .dbx files remaining are skeleton ones, but we don't know
why
they got created? And we know that I don't have Nero Scout,
MailWashing,
RAKDLL.DLL, etc. installed.

I'm going to try renaming the registry entry as has been reported
elsewhere,
but I believe that I may have tried it before and it got recreated,
though.

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the install
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.

Crossposted to OE General. Please see the original post in XP
Help_And_Support to see what has been done so far. Posts were snipped
so
I can't forward them all.


First of all, if I'm in the wrong forum for this - please let me know
and
I'll move on over.

I have had a problem that's deviled many other folks, and like them
I've
spent days trying to dope it out: I'm getting a popup driven by a OE
registry
value ("Compact Check Count") that whines about it being time to
compact
OE
messages. I'm not using OE at all - use Outlook 2007 on XP SP3. The
Compact
Check Count counter gets incremented to a critical value, and then the
popup
is generated.

So why is that counter being manipulated on my system? I've seen many
posts
listing possible causes, and so I downloaded Procmon and quickly saw
that
it
is Windows Desktop Search that's incrementing the counter.

I found that the Control Panel Indexing Options included 2 Outlook
Express
locations - problem solved! Well, not quite: I've unchecked those
locations
(it's not clear to me how to remove those locations entirely from the
eligible list, but they're unchecked) and what's now left checked
there
is
MS
OneNote, MS Outlook and Documents and Settings, all for my userid
(nobody
else uses this PC).

So: How can I keep this counter from being manipulated by Windows
Desktop
Search?

(As a last-gasp measure, I'm rebuiding the index -- I'll post later if
that
made any difference.)

 

[Steve Cochran]

You've already indicated that WDS is not a very good program, so why don't
you just uninstall it and that will eliminate the problem?

steve

I've had XP3 installed for a long time - maybe 10 months? Long enough to
forget the circumstances surrounding its installation. I do know that it
was
fairly uneventful. But haven't the foggiest notion of whther McAfee was
running at the time.

I haven't had any other strange problems happening (that I know about). I
guess I'll just have to live with it.

But doesn't it seem obvious that if Windows Search is jiggering with
directory entries for OE, and the user isn't using OE, that WIndows Search
could make some sort of a test and refrain from making the registry change
in
certain cases?

And what kind of a procedure is it that unilaterally reinstalls msoe.dll,
when a copy of the dll is not available in the Oultook Express directory?
Shouldn't it at least ask?

It seems like a lot of fingers are being pointed away from the true
culprit
here. Just sayin'.

--
Dave Jenkins
K5KX

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the [initial?]
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.

One or more options/settings in an ever-growing number of third-party
applications may be disallowing the change(s) from "sticking". These
include
but are not limited to Ad-aware Pro Ad-Watch, Spybot Tea Timer,
SpywareBlaster, SpySweeper, Spyware Doctor, CounterSpy, AVG Anti-Spyware,
Norton AntiVirus, McAfee VirusScan and/or Antispyware, NOD32, and Zone
Alarm
(Free, Pro, & Security Suite).

And if any of the real-time protections above were running in the
background
when you installed WinXP SP3, you've probably got worse problems.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

So, just kind of recapping here:

We're at a dead end? We know who the culprit is (Windows Desktop
Search)
and we know that it's not being explicitly told to index OE files. We
know
that the only .dbx files remaining are skeleton ones, but we don't know
why
they got created? And we know that I don't have Nero Scout,
MailWashing,
RAKDLL.DLL, etc. installed.

I'm going to try renaming the registry entry as has been reported
elsewhere,
but I believe that I may have tried it before and it got recreated,
though.

In the meantime, I've gone to Windows Search, but after the install
reboot,
the count was incremented yet once again.


Crossposted to OE General. Please see the original post in XP
Help_And_Support to see what has been done so far. Posts were snipped
so
I
can't forward them all.


First of all, if I'm in the wrong forum for this - please let me know
and
I'll move on over.

I have had a problem that's deviled many other folks, and like them
I've
spent days trying to dope it out: I'm getting a popup driven by a OE
registry
value ("Compact Check Count") that whines about it being time to
compact
OE
messages. I'm not using OE at all - use Outlook 2007 on XP SP3. The
Compact
Check Count counter gets incremented to a critical value, and then
the
popup
is generated.

So why is that counter being manipulated on my system? I've seen
many
posts
listing possible causes, and so I downloaded Procmon and quickly saw
that
it
is Windows Desktop Search that's incrementing the counter.

I found that the Control Panel Indexing Options included 2 Outlook
Express
locations - problem solved! Well, not quite: I've unchecked those
locations
(it's not clear to me how to remove those locations entirely from the
eligible list, but they're unchecked) and what's now left checked
there
is
MS
OneNote, MS Outlook and Documents and Settings, all for my userid
(nobody
else uses this PC).

So: How can I keep this counter from being manipulated by Windows
Desktop
Search?

(As a last-gasp measure, I'm rebuiding the index -- I'll post later
if
that
made any difference.)

Thanks for your help.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

That's the only one I found in a Procmon trace, and the count reflected in
the registry reconciles to the nuber of occurrences in the trace (1/boot).

 

[Bruce Hagen]

Why not remove WDS and see if the problem is resolved just to be sure it is
WDS? It is easilly reinstalled.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

Go here (http://screencast.com/t/bNVUFs6fOg) for a screenshot of the choices
for WS Indexing I made through the Control Panel. This screenshot
(http://screencast.com/t/FGNsGCWmAn) shows the filtered Procmon trace for any
registry accesses to anything with a path that ends "Compact Check Count."
It shows two changes to the value: the first is my script that now runs at
Startup, and which resets the count to zero. The second shows
WindowsSearch.exe setting the value to 1.

Can you spot anything in the definition of what's to be indexed that might
allow Outlook Express to be included by default or reference, or some other
non-obvious way?

Thanks.

 

[Bruce Hagen]

Nothing is jumping out at me, but did you delete all OE identities? And then
delete the dbx files in the one and only OE identity that will be created
automatically?

 

[Dave Jenkins]

No - I did not delete any OE identities. I don't know how to do that, or
even what they are! They seem to be akin to users, but they're not really -
I can see that.

Can you give me pointers on how to do what you're suggesting?

 

[Bruce Hagen]

Your identities are in Windows Explorer midway to the OE store folder with
the dbx files.

In OE: Tools | Options | Maintenance | Store Folder will reveal the location
of your Outlook Express files. Write the location down and navigate to it in
Windows Explorer.

In WinXP, Win2K & Win2K3, the OE user files (DBX and WAB) are by default
marked as hidden. To view these files in Windows Explorer, you must enable
Show Hidden Files and Folders under Start | Control Panel | Folder Options
Icon | View, or in Windows Explorer | Tools | Folder Options | View.


It will look something like this:

C:\Documents and Settings\Your User Name\Local Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{Long string of letters and numbers}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express

When you get to the Identities part, there will be a folder for each one.
delete them all.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

I see one identity for my user id. However, that's *not* the identity for
which the check count is being incremented. I have another Windows user
defined (my 5 year old grandson), and it's his identity for which the check
count is incremented, even though I'm the default user that logs on to the
system when it boots he hasn't logged on for probably 6 months or so..

Does that make any sense? And can I delete the identity folder under his
user id as well?

And what the heck *is* an identity, anyway?

 

[Bruce Hagen]

You said you did not use Outlook Express. Does your grandson? If anyone uses
OE, then deleting the identities is /not/ an option.

An identity is so different users can have their own OE on the same machine.

How to Create and Use Identities in Outlook Express
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=209169
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
Imperial Beach, CA

 

[Dave Jenkins]

To the best of my knowledge, my grandson doesn't use OE. However, over the
last couple of years we have isntalled some poorly-written kids games - some
of which caused problems of one sort or another. However, new He has
no identity set up (or at least now he doesn't) - I was incorrect. The other
identity (the one that's getting the Compact Check Count incremented) is
associated with a test version of SAP software installed on my PC. I am
loath to change any settings for that S/W - it's brittle enough as is.

It's interesting that after a boot, in the registry it shows that the "Last
User ID" identity is not mine (I'm the default user) it's the other one.

Not sure what all of that means, but I guess at this point I better leave
well enough alone and live with the boot-up script workaround to the problem,
unless you have soem further suggestion.

Thanks for hanging in there with me. I do hate mysteries, but I guess this
one's beyond my mystery-solving abilties.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

And this SAP software would be? Is it a beta?

Have you uninstalled Windows Search 4 yet?

 

[Dave Jenkins]

SAP NetWeaver 7.0. Not a Beta.

Uninstalling Windows Search would be like sending my car to the junkyard
because it's got a squeak. I can learn to live with the squeak, but I'd
still be interested in eliminating it.

--
Dave Jenkins
K5KX

And this SAP software would be? Is it a beta?

Have you uninstalled Windows Search 4 yet?

[snip]

 

[Bob Lucas]

Windows Search is more akin to the "go faster stripes" on a car.
Totally unnecessary bells and whistles, which do nothing to enhance
performance..

You certainly don't need to take the "car" to the junk yard, just
because Windows Search 4.0 is causing problems. Get rid of the "go
faster stripes" instead.

SAP NetWeaver 7.0. Not a Beta.

Uninstalling Windows Search would be like sending my car to the
junkyard
because it's got a squeak. I can learn to live with the squeak, but
I'd
still be interested in eliminating it.

--
Dave Jenkins
K5KX

And this SAP software would be? Is it a beta?

Have you uninstalled Windows Search 4 yet?

[snip]

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

[Please stop with the snips already! Jeez...]

Is NetWeaver used to create and/or send email messages? What's the
machine's default Mail Client?

Windows Search may be causing the behavior. You can only determine if it is
by uninstalling it. If the behavior persists after the uninstall, you know
it wasn't the cause and can reinstall it if you wish (and make sure that
it's not monitoring any OE identities, DBX files, EML files, and WAB files.

Or you can resign yourself to live with the incessant Compact prompts and
we'll drop the whole thing.

NB: If you refuse to uninstall Windows Search as a test, none of us will
offer any further assistance, Dave.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

SAP NetWeaver 7.0. Not a Beta.

Uninstalling Windows Search would be like sending my car to the junkyard
because it's got a squeak. I can learn to live with the squeak, but I'd
still be interested in eliminating it.

And this SAP software would be? Is it a beta?

Have you uninstalled Windows Search 4 yet?

[snip]

 

[Robert Aldwinckle]

A last note to a depressing day:

I removed the Compact Check Count registry entries and renamed msoe.dll.

Not clear why you did that?

After a reboot I found that the registry enries had been recreated (and
incremented to 1) and that a new, fresh copy of msoe.dll had been placed in
the \Program Files\Outlook Express directory. Turns out that there's 4-5
virgin copies of msoe.dll on the hd, in various places, and some program was
smart enough to go find one and copy it in.

I'm guessing that that program would be Windows Search?

Was one of the "various places" %windir%\System32\dllcache ?
If so, XP's WFP feature would likely restore a missing file to its proper location.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/wfp.mspx

Certainly Windows Search is the culprit as far as
incrementing the counter goes (at least in my case).

I guess, at the end of the day, I have a better idea for what's going on,
but I don't understand why this shoould be happening just now - (unless
there's been an update to the contrary) nothing much has happened Windows
Search-wise, that I know of. So why did this start now?

What do you use WS for? E.g. what File Types and how are they indexed?
In particular how are extensions .eml and .nws treated? Then, do you have
any instances of those file types in any of the locations you are indexing?
Then, how are those file types opened when you find them? E.g. if msimn.exe
starts and the message opens in an OE message window you would have your answer.

And what's the next step?

It might be sufficient to disassociate .eml and .nws from OE.

Switch to a cmd window and tell us what you get from the following commands:

assoc .eml
then
assoc .nws
then
ftype | find "Message"


FWIW here is what I get when I do that:

<cmd_output OS="XPsp3">
E:\>assoc .eml
..eml=Microsoft Internet Mail Message

E:\>assoc .nws
..nws=Microsoft Internet News Message

E:\>ftype | find "Message"
Microsoft Internet Mail Message="F:\Program Files\Windows Live\Mail\wlmail.exe" /eml:%1
Microsoft Internet News Message="F:\Program Files\Windows Live\Mail\wlmail.exe" /nws:%1
<cmd_output>

Hmm... I recently reinstalled WL Beta (all programs). ; )
I'm guessing you will see some different results...

BTW if you want to see *why* WS is incrementing that registry value
in your ProcMon trace you are going to have to change your filter
to allow it to show some *context* for the events that you have captured.
E.g. try changing your filter to: Process Name is WindowsSearch.exe
or msimn.exe (i.e., filter for both but obviously not in the same record)
and put a highlight on that registry value you are interested in.


HTH

Robert Aldwinckle
---