J
Jon Spivey
Whether you pay for "inclusion" or you self-submit the same thing happens -
you submit a url, the spider visits that url and then indexes what it finds
however it sees fit. You can never choose the content to index, only the url
for the spider to visit. Also the OP mentioned Google in his subject -
Google do not offer any form of paid inclusion service. Once you're listed
you can use their site map service to help them index larger sites but this
is free and doesn't offer any guarantees.
Paid inclusion is a red herring in this thread
1/ It won't help the OP in any way
2/ It isn't offered by google.
--
Cheers,
Jon
Microsoft MVP
you submit a url, the spider visits that url and then indexes what it finds
however it sees fit. You can never choose the content to index, only the url
for the spider to visit. Also the OP mentioned Google in his subject -
Google do not offer any form of paid inclusion service. Once you're listed
you can use their site map service to help them index larger sites but this
is free and doesn't offer any guarantees.
Paid inclusion is a red herring in this thread
1/ It won't help the OP in any way
2/ It isn't offered by google.
--
Cheers,
Jon
Microsoft MVP
Thomas A. Rowe said:Correct, I was never attempting to indicate that it had anything to do
with ranking.
So based on the OP issue, which was trying understand how to have site
content indexed without include the navigation structure, which would only
be possible when using a paid inclusion service, where the site is
submitting the content to be included in the index.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
Jon Spivey said:I see what you're saying but look at what those packages are actually
offering. Inclusion, not ranking. Meaning your site will attain the same
ranking it would have had if you hadn't paid. It just might get there
slightly quicker. If your site's good it may well get to number one and be
spidered regularly, but it would have done had you not paid. If your
site's lame it's going to appear on page 52 again whether or not you pay.
If your site is good the engines will want to spider it, rank it well and
revisit it regularly. A search engine's biggest revenue stream is from
selling PPC ads - the only way to sell ads is to gain consumers trust by
delivering the best, most relevant search results.
--
Cheers,
Jon
Microsoft MVP
Thomas A. Rowe said:Jon,
See the following (2004), however the services may no longer be
available.
http://www.high-search-engine-ranking.com/paid_inclusion_services.htm
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
That's not correct Tom. You cannot pay for inclusion in a search engine
that delivers traffic. Froogle is free to be listed in - you have to
submit data in a certain way but they don't take payments. Don't get me
started on froogle - let's just say google have a way of earning
revenue from this but it doesn't involve paying for inclusion.
If you have a good site of 10 pages or 10 million it's going to be
spidered and each page will gain a ranking on it's merits. Of course it
takes time to spider a big site but you can't short circuit the process
by paying. The Searchenginewatch.com article is nonsense. They generate
revenue from giving search engine "information" to people who don't
know from experience how search engines work. Read the article properly
and then combine it with your real world experience of generating
search traffic
There's no way to buy a search engine ranking
--
Cheers,
Jon
Microsoft MVP
I am not talking about paid/sponsored listing results, but paid
inclusions.
Example: Take a large database driven site, there is no way that a
search engine spider is going to index the entire site, so the site
would provide the search engines with a flat file of the content to be
included in the index in whatever format the search engine requires
for a fee
Currently Google offers a service called Froggle for indexing
eCommerce sites.
http://searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/article.php/2167941
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
Yes you can. Google places the paid placments above and to the right
of natural listings, Overture places them above natural listings. In
both cases they're clearly labelled as sponsored results. You
absolutely cannot pay money to get a higher ranking.
--
Cheers,
Jon
Microsoft MVP
You can not tell the difference between a search result listing that
was a paid placement vs. standard spider indexing.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
"Charley Kyd" <kyd at incsight dot com> wrote in message
Yes, but paid placement is a different category. That's not what's
happening here.
Charley
Google, as well as other major search engines also allow for paid
placement which the content for the index is provide directly by
the website and not the search engine spiders.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
"Charley Kyd" <kyd at incsight dot com> wrote in message
Hmmm...Not always.
Illustration 1
========
Search Google for the words: crabby microsoft office training
The first listing I get is:
Microsoft Office Assistance Home Page
Microsoft Office Assistance Center hosts how-to articles, tips,
columns, and
quizzes that help you get work done using ... Crabby Office Lady:
(c) Microsoft ...
The title tag is:
<TITLE>Microsoft Office Assistance Home Page</TITLE>
And the Description is:
<meta name="Description" content="Microsoft Office Assistance
Center hosts how-to articles, tips, columns, and quizzes that
help you get work done using Office programs.">
But the rest of Google's description comes from:
---------
Line 79: <TD CLASS="BOBSImg" VALIGN="center"><A
HREF="/search/redir.aspx?AssetID=HA100152241033&Origin=HH100791741033&CTT=5"
TITLE="Crabby Office Lady: (c) Microsoft"><IMG WIDTH="51"
HEIGHT="60" BORDER="0"
SRC="/global/images/default.aspx?assetid=ZA010911451033"
ALT="Crabby Office Lady: (c) Microsoft"></A></TD>
--------
Notice that "Training" is a menu item--as text--on this page, but
the menu item isn't returned with Google's page description.
Illustration 2
========
Search Google for the words: crabby microsoft office downloads
The first listing I get is:
Microsoft Office Online: Crabby Office Lady columns from Office
Online
Microsoft Office for your job ... Don't get crabby with me:
Choosing the Office
features you want · View this: Opening a file when ... Download
today's clip ...
Again, the title is:
<TITLE>Microsoft Office Online: Crabby Office Lady columns from
Office Online</TITLE>
But the remainder does NOT come from meta tags. Instead, it comes
from line 129, which is 32,000 characters long:
------------
<TD CLASS="BOBListTitleCell"><SPAN CLASS="OLblEm">Microsoft
Office for your job</SPAN></TD>
...
<LI CLASS="OLstIN"><A CLASS="OAnc"
HREF="/search/redir.aspx?AssetID=HA100474471033&Origin=HH010778061033&CTT=5">Don't
get crabby with me: Choosing the Office features you
want</A></LI>
...
<LI CLASS="OLstIN"><A CLASS="OAnc"
HREF="/search/redir.aspx?AssetID=HA012309001033&Origin=HH010778061033&CTT=5">View
this: Opening a file when you don't have the program</A></LI>
...
<TD WIDTH="100%" CLASS="RightNavBackgroundNew"
STYLE="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;"><SPAN CLASS="OLblEm">Download today's
clip</SPAN></TD>
-----------
The key item of interest is where Google went to pick up
"download" -- not "downloads" as I asked for. The last section
of the description begins on line 129, character 31,085. To get
to that point, Google had to skip over the "Downloads" text in
the menu, which begins in line 118, character 2558.
Has Google just gotten smarter about avoiding menu text in its
page descriptions? Or is Microsoft doing something to cause
Google to ignore the menu items?
Charley
Server not found at ExcelUser.com
If you have description and title meta tags matching your page
content the SE will still use them instead of your page content
for
summaries
--
_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________
"Charley Kyd" <kyd at incsight dot com> wrote in message
|
| Thanks, Tom, but I've changed the design since I had the
problem.
|
| Instead, I played some tricks with tables to put the left-side
menu below
| the content. That solution worked as far as the search engines
are
| concerned, but when people use larger fonts the tables get
ugly. You can see
| that problem if you go to ExcelUser.com and View the largest
text size.
|
| So I'm looking at a full redesign, and I don't want to go
through all of
| that work unless I can find some way to get search engines to
ignore menu
| text when they summarize each page.
|
| Charley
|
|
message
| | >
| > Provide a URL to your page for us to look at.
| > --
| > ===
| > Tom [Pepper] Willett
| > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| > ---
| > FrontPage Support:
| > http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >
| > About FrontPage 2003:
| >
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
| > ===
| > "Charley Kyd" <kyd at incsight dot com> wrote in message
| > | > |
| > | No. I don't use frames.
| > |
| > | Charley
| > |
| > |
message
| > | | > | >
| > | > They don't use frames. Are you?
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Murray
| > | > ============
| > | >
| > | > "Charley Kyd" <kyd at incsight dot com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | >>
| > | >> I used to have menus at the left, much as Microsoft
does at:
| > | >> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx
| > | >>
| > | >> However, when Google returned information about a page,
their
| > | >> descriptions of my pages often merely listed my menu
text...which
| > | >> provided no useful information in the search results.
Can anyone tell
| > me
| > | >> what Microsoft does to force the Google spider to reach
deep into the
| > | >> html to return actual content, rather than menu text?
| > | >>
| > | >> Has anyone else had the problem I did? How did you cure
it?
| > | >>
| > | >> Thanks.
| > | >>
| > | >> Charley
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|