Hardware Requirements for Internet PC

[BillW50]

In glee typed:

Regarding OE compacting, we are talking about the same "issue"...
compacting was not "broken" however. Background compacting was the
problem, but compacting when closing OE or manually compacting while
offline worked fine.

I've never had a critical security update mess up a computer, unless
the computer was infected with a root kit or trojan. I'm not talking
about half a dozen computers, I'm talking about the neighborhood of
50 to 75. I never updated while running other programs, and always
disable the AV during update installation. Most of my clients did
not follow that procedure though, and they still never had update
problems. When people tell these tales of critical updates killing
their system, it has always been due to other issues in every case I
have seen. I'm curious.... when was the last time you checked you
system for root kits and trojans with Windows NOT loaded.... booting
from a Linux-based AV rescue CD?

I routinely repair other people infected systems all of the time, Glen.
I pull the drives out and scan them with a known clean system. And it
doesn't matter if you believe me or not. As all you have to do is to
scan Microsoft's KB list to know that updates can and does mess up an
OS.

List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480

Just look how many of these from the SP2 update had screwed up many
systems. There are dozens of new problems that were caused by SP2
directly. Sure SP3 fixed some of them, but SP3 also caused some of their
own new problems. Although there is not going to be a SP4 to fix all of
the new problems from SP3, now is there?

Don't let XP Service Pack 3 hose your system
http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/dont-let-xp-service-pack-3-hose-your-system/

Windows XP SP3 Issues and Fixes Continued
http://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2008/...p3-still-not-ready-news-flash-do-not-install/

Doing updates for decades, this is a very common theme. Even if you
change one line of code to a flawless system, the odds start dropping
that it will remain that way the more lines of code you change. That is
why more people have trouble with a SP than with a single small update.
It is just the law of averages. Although anybody who has lots of
experience knows all of this stuff anyway.

 

[BillW50]

In Bill in Co typed:

I think it was SP3, too - not SP2. As I recall, up until SP3, OE
would run compaction in the background, (which was problematic for
some people). I personally liked it, however (for doing that), as
I'd never do anything else when I heard it running the compaction
(about 15 seconds after opening OE each time), so I never lost
anything.
As for the OE bug, I've noticed it, too - what happens is after that
counter reaches 100, OE prompts you to compact, and if I do so right
then and there, I have issues like that error message you mentioned.

IF, however, instead I close OE, and then run the compaction, no
problems, and it compacts just fine. So what I do to avoid the
problem is either compact manually on occasion as I see fit, or wait
until OE flags it as being time, and then simply close OE and *then*
run the compaction, which always works fine.

I have dozens of unformatted spare drives here and I used one to restore
from the factory recovery disc. So with this drive anyway, I can play
around for a while to see how it behaves with SP2 without any later
updates. Too soon to tell you anything as of yet.

My beef about updates is similar to yours: I don't want to have to
deal with the fallout which occasionally occurs with these (or any,
for that matter) "updates".

But I'm also very attentive and watchful about this computer and its
environment, and I'm the only user.

That said, I sometimes find it advantageous to occasionally update a
select few programs, from time to time. But I've learned to keep the
older editions just in case, and there have been several such cases.

Newer versions generally get more and bloated which can be a source of
problems itself. Although sometimes newer versions take away some
features that used to be there in older versions. Lots of examples, but
the one about Windows Live Mail 2011 not having the ability of quoting
is probably one of the most recent one that is the current talk.

 

[BillW50]

In Stefan Patric typed:

In news:[email protected], Stefan Patric typed:

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:12:41 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

[Big snip]

I disagree that 900MHz isn't enough for any arbitrary video
playback. As

[snip]

My Asus EeePC 701/2 netbooks are underclocked to 633MHz. And they
too can keep up with arbitrary video playback without missing a
beat under Windows XP, even on an external monitor running
1440x900. Oddly enough, Linux on the same machine can't even come
close.

Which Linux distro? The one originally installed? Xandros, I
think it was. Awful.

I've got a EeePC 900 (900mHz Celeron, 1GB RAM, 4GB+16GB SSDs) on
which I installed Eeebuntu 3.x (an optimize version of Ubuntu for
the EeePC) wiping out the original Xandros, and it now plays any
video, etc. without problems. What a difference overall compared
to Xandros.

Stef

Xandros, Ubuntu 8.10 netbook edition, Ubuntu 9.10 netbook edition,
and Puppy Linux. And I really liked Xandros, especially in easy mode
which boots in 20 seconds. Although the wireless to connect had
taken an extra minute. You could only use Firefox 2.0 tops with
Xandros without updating the kernel, and that makes Xandros unusable
to me as is. As Firefox 2.0 displays webpages worse than IE6 does.

Xandros was just too old, too, on my 900. And there were no newer
versions. That's one of the reasons why I replaced it with Eeebuntu
3.0. Unfortunately, Eeebuntu was based on Ubuntu 9.04, which went
End of Life last year, and along with that the repositories were
removed. And as Eeebuntu used them, not having its own . . . Well,
that makes it all the harder to keep it usable. (If only for
security reasons, I should upgrade Chrome and Firefox and Flash as
they are all at least two years old.)

I suppose in the future I'll be forced to install another OS on the
old EeePC. (Or retire it to my junk closet.) Don't know what it will
be. Eeebuntu was the only version of Linux I found--at the time--that
was specifically configured from the ground up for the EeePC, so
everything worked out-of-the-box. And it did. No glitches at all.
No fixes required. No tweaks needed. I was delightfully surprised.

Stef

I got three EeePCs right in the drawer right next to me. Currently one
has Windows 2000, another XP SP2, and the Other Ubuntu 9.1. Although I
did have XP SP3, Xandros, Puppy Linux, and Windows 7 at one time too.
Don't attempt Windows 7, as that was so painfully slow.

 

[Searcher7]

I posted a couple of days ago, but for some reason Google Groups
deleted it.

In Task Manager, while on the Processes tab, click the View menu> Select
Columns, put a check in the boxes for Virtual Memory Size and GDI
Objects, and click OK. You may find rather high Virtual Memory usage
for some apps (like Firefox) as well as for GDI Objects.... this will
tell you more about what is slowing it down that just looking at Mem
Usage.

But I wouldn't know what I'm looking at anyway.

...and what were the results of the Hitachi Drive Fitness Test (DFT) on
both internal drives, that I mentioned earlier?http://www.hitachigst.com/support/downloads/#DFT

I have a lot of drives and change whenever I re-install, but the lags
persists so I doubt it's a hard drive problem. Besides, I don't have a
set-up that allows me to create "self-booting media". (I disconnected
my "A" drive which was giving me problems).

Which version of FF? Keep in mind FF has always been a memory glutton
and in old versions people kept referring to an unidentified memory
leak that the user would have to shut down FF to reset memory, IIRC.

At the moment Firefox version 12. (BTW. I just swapped in a different
DVD drive and that corrected a lot of jerky playback issues I had with
some disks).

There are several options, the simplest using task manager. Under the
processes tab, task manager allows you to view a number of variables.
At the bottom is a clickbox that allows you to terminate a process -
Not really a good idea unless you know what the process does. You can
use the process name in google to discover more about what the process
does. I've found it useful to also pay attention to how many
processes are running - task manager tells you. Over time, you'll get
a feel for that. On my pc, it's usually around 32 whereas on my laptop
it's around 40. Those number are specific to my eqpt and will probably
differ from yours.

Alternatively, take a look at Microsoft's Sysinternals page. It has a
number of very good programs to help analyze and manage your O/S. I
don't have the URL handy.

I've learned that after an OS install staying as far away from
Microsoft and anything it wants to add has not just cause me less
problems, but has allowed me to avoid all searching, downloads and
learning curves. It's a lot easier to track down and correct problems
with your car than a Microsoft OS. That's why I reinstall regularly.
It's a lot faster and easier.

Maintenance and security related "fixes" are a pain. (But it's big
business).

Your choice, but from the info you've given, it seems like upping your
memory to 1Gb might give it new legs. You'd have to balance that
against the cost of the replacement and upgrade of your eqpt. It is
always nice to have newer eqpt, but I'm still not sure the case has
been made that your computer cannot handle the net anymore.

I'd start with some basic things. One, upgrade to SP3. Two, check
your pagefile size settings. Three, doublecheck your FF settings
(because your post suggests that that is your default browser).
Perhaps test out how it feels if FF blocks automatic image downloads.
AFAIK, you have to have IE 8 installed for SP3, but you don't have to
use it. Use something such as Microsoft Sysinternals to look at what
starts up when you boot up your pc. Note that Sysinternals may require
a bit of learning curve; the various programs give a lot of info. I'm
by no means knowledgeable about everything it does, so I just focus on
the start up section. Four, use something like CCleaner to delete
trash off your hard drives and to scan for registry issues. Five,
doublecheck that your trash bin is empty. I for one keep forgetting
that moving something to trash bin does not delete the file; that has
to be done separately.

Those are free things that require spending time, not money. If you're
still not satisfied, then choose if you want to spend your money either
to buy more ram as a last ditch effort or to buy eqpt to replace/update
your pc.

I've learned that there are rarely step-by-step instructions toward
resolving these problems that work anyway, because everyone doesn't
have the same system. My next step is a different system with a lot
more ram.(Something I didn't need a decade ago). I really can't go
through the hassle of searching for and installing and figuring out
maintenance related apps that I shouldn't need anyway. If this is what
you do or is your business that's one thing, but I just want to be
able to turn on and use my pc without all the crap.(To whatever extent
that is possible).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 

[glee]

I posted a couple of days ago, but for some reason Google Groups
deleted it.

You appear to be replying to comments I made and also someone else's
comments from the thread, so I'll concentrate on replying to your
responses to my comments.

But I wouldn't know what I'm looking at anyway.

That's why you are asking questions in the newsgroup, no? Enable those
columns, and when you have issues, post back with what processes show
highest usage in those columns, as well as CPU and Memory, and what the
numbers are, and someone here who *does* know what you are looking at
can help you.

I have a lot of drives and change whenever I re-install, but the lags
persists so I doubt it's a hard drive problem. Besides, I don't have a
set-up that allows me to create "self-booting media". (I disconnected
my "A" drive which was giving me problems).

You don't have an optical drive (CD, DVD)? Bootable media doesn't have
to be a floppy, most common now is bootable CD. The DFT page I linked
gives links to an ISO file to make a bootable CD, and links to
instructions.
You change hard drives whenever you reinstall, and from you comments
below, you reinstall regularly? Are you aware that both PATA and SATA
connectors on the drives and motherboard have a limit on how many times
they can be connected and disconnected without degrading?

I've learned that after an OS install staying as far away from
Microsoft and anything it wants to add has not just cause me less
problems, but has allowed me to avoid all searching, downloads and
learning curves. It's a lot easier to track down and correct problems
with your car than a Microsoft OS. That's why I reinstall regularly.
It's a lot faster and easier.

Maintenance and security related "fixes" are a pain. (But it's big
business).

No offense because I don't mean it that way, but that's all a good sign
of a user who doesn't really know what he's doing.... but if you are
trying to avoid all those "learning curves", you're not going to learn a
lot! ;-) Also, there's a difference between critical security
updates, and Microsoft's other "recommended" updates.... which I would
NOT recommend on any of the MS operating systems. In addition, on XP
and earlier, MS updates to device drivers should be avoided like a
plague.

I've learned that there are rarely step-by-step instructions toward
resolving these problems that work anyway, because everyone doesn't
have the same system. My next step is a different system with a lot
more ram.(Something I didn't need a decade ago). I really can't go
through the hassle of searching for and installing and figuring out
maintenance related apps that I shouldn't need anyway. If this is what
you do or is your business that's one thing, but I just want to be
able to turn on and use my pc without all the crap.(To whatever extent
that is possible).

Actually, step-by-step instructions work for many issues on most
systems, if they are complete and followed exactly. It really depends
on the issues involved though. I hear you about having to use
maintenance apps and learning about them, instead of just using your
machine to do what you want. In part, that's why MS has dumbed down the
system so much in Vista and Seven... so users can concentrate on doing
their work (and play) on their computer, rather than have to spend time
on maintenance and repair. The down side of the dumbing down is that
'power users" and tweakers, and more advanced users who want more
control have to jump through more hoops instead, to do what used to be
much easier in XP or 98.

 

[BillW50]

In glee typed:

No offense because I don't mean it that way, but that's all a good
sign of a user who doesn't really know what he's doing.... but if you
are trying to avoid all those "learning curves", you're not going to
learn a lot! ;-) Also, there's a difference between critical
security updates, and Microsoft's other "recommended" updates....
which I would NOT recommend on any of the MS operating systems. In
addition, on XP and earlier, MS updates to device drivers should be
avoided like a plague.

No offense Glen, but take it up a notch. If you know what you are doing,
security updates are obsolete. First I haven't found anything that can
make it through a security hole in the OS to make it past a real time AV
scanner yet. As real time scanners have two layers. One it monitors
everything coming in any port. Although I don't think this one layer is
perfect, as I somehow still believe one could get through this layer
anyway.

But the other layer of real time scanner is that first anything that
wants to execute, must also pass through this extra layer. Now nothing
has a chance. As if it can't pass this test, it can't install, run, or
anything else. It is good as dead.

One might argue what about zero day malware? Yup, that is the hole in
real time scanners. I think I saw one of them once in 30 years here. It
came as an email attachment and it passed the scan. And I thought sure,
I'll wait a day and during the next AV update we will see what happens.
Sure the next update it too was flagged.

I suppose some really need zero day protection. I never saw I needed it
except that once in my life and I was smart enough to not execute it
anyway. But there is protection here too. It is called sandboxing. Now
you can infect a system as many ways as you possibly can and nothing can
happen. As all malware is safely stuck in a tiny box and can't do
anything outside of that box, including your system.

There is one way for malware to foil a sandbox. And the only way for it
to do so is to find a security hole through the sandbox itself. Although
this has nothing to do with Windows security updates, but the sandbox
security updates instead.

So there are far better ways to protect yourself against malware than
relying on security patches. And I believe Microsoft also knows that
security patches are a joke for protection too. As why would they wait
up to 7 years to patch a security hole for? It doesn't make any sense if
they too thought they were important. As they surely don't act like they
are at all.

I believe they keep this charade up because they know if they didn't
pretend to care, people like you would never let it down. So they keep
it up and as long as they throw a few bones your way, thus people like
you stay happy.

 

[Mark]

In glee typed:

I routinely repair other people infected systems all of the time, Glen.
I pull the drives out and scan them with a known clean system. And it
doesn't matter if you believe me or not. As all you have to do is to
scan Microsoft's KB list to know that updates can and does mess up an
OS.

List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480

Just look how many of these from the SP2 update had screwed up many
systems. There are dozens of new problems that were caused by SP2
directly. Sure SP3 fixed some of them, but SP3 also caused some of their
own new problems. Although there is not going to be a SP4 to fix all of
the new problems from SP3, now is there?

Don't let XP Service Pack 3 hose your system
http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/dont-let-xp-service-pack-3-hose-your-system/

Windows XP SP3 Issues and Fixes Continued
http://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2008/...p3-still-not-ready-news-flash-do-not-install/

Doing updates for decades, this is a very common theme. Even if you
change one line of code to a flawless system, the odds start dropping
that it will remain that way the more lines of code you change. That is
why more people have trouble with a SP than with a single small update.
It is just the law of averages. Although anybody who has lots of
experience knows all of this stuff anyway.

I must admit I've not had any problems from Microsoft critical updates
(except for the Genuine (dis)advantage) with XP. At work we had
problems with updates for W7 and Vista.

I do know people that have had problems not installing security
updates.

Therefore I would always recommend installing the security updates.

 

[Searcher7]

You appear to be replying to comments I made and also someone else's
comments from the thread, so I'll concentrate on replying to your
responses to my comments.



That's why you are asking questions in the newsgroup, no?  Enable those
columns, and when you have issues, post back with what processes show
highest usage in those columns, as well as CPU and Memory, and what the
numbers are, and someone here who *does* know what you are looking at
can help you.

Ok, you didn't say that before. So basically, I have to wait until I
have "issues" and then do the above. You still haven't mentioned what
specific issues I should wait for. Should I do this when everything
except my cursor freezes? Or when things become slower than usual?

You don't have an optical drive (CD, DVD)?  Bootable media doesn't have
to be a floppy, most common now is bootable CD.  The DFT page I linked
gives links to an ISO file to make a bootable CD, and links to
instructions.

I have an optical drive. But I would need one that writes. (But again,
I seriously doubt that *all* my drives are bad the same way).

You change hard drives whenever you reinstall, and from you comments
below, you reinstall regularly?  Are you aware that both PATA and SATA
connectors on the drives and motherboard have a limit on how many times
they can be connected and disconnected without degrading?

I don't know if the pins are plated or not, but are you saying that
degraded pins on *all* my drives are a possible cause of the exact
same symptoms? I really don't see a problem, even it I swap a single
drive 20 times, which I've not yet done.

No offense because I don't mean it that way, but that's all a good sign
of a user who doesn't really know what he's doing.... but if you are
trying to avoid all those "learning curves", you're not going to learn a
lot!  ;-)

The point is that I shouldn't have to. ;-)

I know more than most about PCs and I'm regularly putting something
together, but when there is so much research and forum posts involved
when something isn't working the way it is *supposed* to (thanks to
software issues) it really kills the experience. (I rarely have
*hardware* problems).

Also, there's a difference between critical security

updates, and Microsoft's other "recommended" updates.... which I would
NOT recommend on any of the MS operating systems.  In addition, on XP
and earlier, MS updates to device drivers should be avoided like a
plague.


Actually, step-by-step instructions work for many issues on most
systems, if they are complete and followed exactly.  It really depends
on the issues involved though.  I hear you about having to use
maintenance apps and learning about them, instead of just using your
machine to do what you want.  In part, that's why MS has dumbed down the
system so much in Vista and Seven... so users can concentrate on doing
their work (and play) on their computer, rather than have to spend time
on maintenance and repair.  The down side of the dumbing down is that
'power users" and tweakers, and more advanced users who want more
control have to jump through more hoops instead, to do what used to be
much easier in XP or 98.

Majority rules. ;-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 

[Paul]

I don't know if the pins are plated or not, but are you saying that
degraded pins on *all* my drives are a possible cause of the exact
same symptoms? I really don't see a problem, even it I swap a single
drive 20 times, which I've not yet done.

SATA connectors (internal to PC) are rated for 50 insertions.

ESATA connectors (external to PC) are rated for 5000 insertions.

The ESATA connector uses metal for the framework of the connector,
which I presume is helping things. It might not be just the surfaces
which have an issue, but wear of the plastic portion which is a friction
fit.

Paul

 

[BillW50]

In Paul typed:

SATA connectors (internal to PC) are rated for 50 insertions.

Oh boy... I passed 50 many years ago with mine. I swap hard drives on my
laptops all of the time. I just cloned this laptop drive today and I am
running off of the clone to make sure everything works ok. The original
is in the drawer and now is saved as a backup copy.

 

[glee]

In Paul typed:

Oh boy... I passed 50 many years ago with mine. I swap hard drives on
my laptops all of the time. I just cloned this laptop drive today and
I am running off of the clone to make sure everything works ok. The
original is in the drawer and now is saved as a backup copy.

It's an estimate and doesn't mean it will necessarily fail.... but it's
kind of living on borrowed time (aren't we all, anyway?) USB ports have
an insertion rating too, IIRC.