Hardware failure at boot up?

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theedwardses

My Dell laptop has suddenly developed a problem. About 7 or 8 seconds
after switching the power on, a message comes up "NTLDR missing - press
CTRL-ALT-DEL to continue". Pressing them makes the machine start again
and, 7 seconds later, the error message comes up again.

Dell hardware say it's a software problem and Dell software say it's
hardware. Anyone have any ideas I might explore?
 
Hi,

Turn off the computer. Turn it back on and insert the windows xp
recovery cd.

It will give you two options a) install windows xp. b) repair windows
xp, press R.

Select the second option. Hit R and it will give you the Recovery
Console prompt.
The it will prompt for the password. just hit enter key on the KB.

Type copy c:\i386\ntldr c:\
Type copy c:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\
Close the recovery console prompt window by typing exit and quit from
Recovery screen. The computer will now restart and it should come up
just fine.
 
Previously said:
My Dell laptop has suddenly developed a problem. About 7 or 8 seconds
after switching the power on, a message comes up "NTLDR missing - press
CTRL-ALT-DEL to continue". Pressing them makes the machine start again
and, 7 seconds later, the error message comes up again.
Dell hardware say it's a software problem and Dell software say it's
hardware. Anyone have any ideas I might explore?

It is software. The bootsector is loaded, which means the
disk-subsystem works. Seems Dell software support is incompetent,
lazy or both.

Arno
 
Turn off the computer. Turn it back on and insert the windows xp
recovery cd.

It will give you two options a) install windows xp. b) repair windows
xp, press R.

Select the second option. Hit R and it will give you the Recovery
Console prompt.
The it will prompt for the password. just hit enter key on the KB.

Type copy c:\i386\ntldr c:\
Type copy c:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\
Close the recovery console prompt window by typing exit and quit from
Recovery screen. The computer will now restart and it should come up
just fine.

Dangerous advice!

The most common reason for the "NTLDR missing" error message to show is
incorrect drive settings in the CMOS. Attempting to write to the drive in such
condition will cause disastrous results by corrupting the file system critical
areas!

Regards, Zvi
 
My Dell laptop has suddenly developed a problem. About 7 or 8 seconds
after switching the power on, a message comes up "NTLDR missing - press
CTRL-ALT-DEL to continue". Pressing them makes the machine start again
and, 7 seconds later, the error message comes up again.

Dell hardware say it's a software problem and Dell software say it's
hardware. Anyone have any ideas I might explore?

They could be both correct. The message "NTLDR missing" is issued by the boot
partition boot sector, when failing to find NTLDR.

This could be caused by genuine deletion of the file. But a more common reason
could be incorrect settings of the hard drive in the CMOS.

To test whether this is the case, get a copy of NTFS4DOS from
http://www.datapol-technologies.com/dpe/fts.php?criteria=ntfs4dos , make with an
NTFS boot floppy from DOS (free for private use) and boot the laptop from the
floppy made.

Explore the C: drive from the A: prompt / command line to see if your
directories and files are accessible. You can even run CHKDSK from the floppy
but pay attention to NOT use the /F parameter (fix) before having assessed the
drive!

The showing of a garbled DIR C: may mean that the drive setting in the CMOS is
incorrect, or in the worse case, that the file system is corrupted. To test
for the presence of the start files (on a healthy file system) issue the command
DIR C:\NT* /A If the files exists then the command should return NTLDR and
NTDETECT.COM.

Only if the file system of C: is OK and one of the two files is missing, then
you may copy them safely from the Windows setup CD, in repair console mode.

Regards, Zvi
 
It is software. The bootsector is loaded, which means the
disk-subsystem works. Seems Dell software support is incompetent,
lazy or both.

Windows has an "In-Place Upgrade" which fixes problems like that. Or
you can use the Recovery Console and try to rebuild the MBR. But you
need to know what you are doing.

You can look up all this in the MS Knowledge Base.


--

Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html

A liberal is a person who is so open minded
that their brains have fallen out.
 
Bob said:
Windows has an "In-Place Upgrade" which fixes problems like that. Or
you can use the Recovery Console and try to rebuild the MBR. But you
need to know what you are doing.
You do not know. You are clueless. Do you even know what MBR is?

Boob's advice will make things worse if the problem is disk corruption.
 
I cannot keep count of how many times some of my clients would call me
and complain about how their PCs worked fine and suddenly they started
getting the same message you get.

You should first check to see if there is a floppy disk in your floppy
drive and remove it before booting the PC. All systems set to use the
floppy drive as first boot device and have floopy boot seek turned on
in BIOS will give you that message if the inserted floopy is not a boot
floppy.

Remove the floppy from your drive and see what happens - that is if you
have not called in the technician or restored the system already.
 
I cannot keep count of how many times some of my clients
would call me and complain about how their PCs worked fine
and suddenly they started getting the same message you get.

Bet they dont usually get that particular message.
You should first check to see if there is a floppy disk in your floppy
drive and remove it before booting the PC. All systems set to use the
floppy drive as first boot device and have floopy boot seek turned on
in BIOS will give you that message if the inserted floopy is not a boot
floppy.

You wont normally get that particular message in that situation.
Remove the floppy from your drive and see what happens - that is
if you have not called in the technician or restored the system already.

He said he has already asked Dell.
 
There is a very simple way to find out for yourself.

Place a non-bootable floppy in your drive after setting your PC to boot
first from floppy and tell me what you see. Why else are they going to
tell you that you must press CTRL+ALT+DEL. That command reboots the
system, right? And why would they want you to reboot?

Obviously the PC is not finding the boot device which might very well
be that a floppy is in the drive or the hard drive needs
reconfiguration or it crashed.
 
Nonsense. It IS booting from the disk.

The "press CTRL+ALT+DEL" text only exists in the Win 2K/XP boot sector.

Either ntldr is missing, or the volume is corrupt. Run chkdsk from recovery
console.
 
There is a very simple way to find out for yourself.

Dont need to, I've done it plenty of times by accident.
Place a non-bootable floppy in your drive after setting
your PC to boot first from floppy and tell me what you see.

Non System Disk usually, depending
on how the floppy has been created.
Why else are they going to tell you
that you must press CTRL+ALT+DEL.
That command reboots the system, right?
And why would they want you to reboot?

Separate issue entirely to whether you normally see
the "NTLDR missing - press CTRL-ALT-DEL to continue".
message when the system is setup to try booting the
floppy first and a non bootable floppy is in the floppy drive.
Obviously the PC is not finding the boot device

Duh, but you dont necessarily get a message that complains
"NTLDR missing", essentially because the MBR on the floppy
doesnt normally attempt to boot an OS in the NT/2K/XP
family with a non bootable floppy.
which might very well be that a floppy is in the drive
or the hard drive needs reconfiguration or it crashed.

Separate issue entirely to whether you normally see
the "NTLDR missing - press CTRL-ALT-DEL to continue".
message when the system is setup to try booting the
floppy first and a non bootable floppy is in the floppy drive.
 
Eric Gisin:

Look, I don't come on here just because I want to make myself foolish
or dispute what methods other people apply in solving their computer
problems. If you know this industry well you will recognize that there
is no one method used in solving problems relating to computer hardware
/ software issues, and that I learned from studying / fixing computer
for over a decade and a half.

In saying that, I am going to allow you time to do some research or ask
any good neighborhood technician what is the first thing they look at
when faced with this error and listen to what they tell you.

The majority of the time that error points to a floppy in the FDD which
the computer tries to boot from but, because the files are corrupt or
the NTLDR is not present on the floppy the system returns that error.

Most good technicians look at the FDD first before tearing apart the
computer and start examining IDE cables, deleting partitions,
reformatting hard drives and running Chkdsk or start recovery console
to solve this problem.

If you read what I wrote carefully you will notice that I stated that I
hoped the user did not go out and get a technician or had already
applied the hard drive utility to bring the system back to order before
first checking the FDD. Some people lose data and precious time over
this situation when most times fixing the problem requires the simple
removal of a floppy disk before booting the PC.

Anyway, just not to make this a lecture and on realizing some of us are
set in our ways and beliefs, I am not going to attempt to educate you.
However, follow the link and read the information on there and tell me
if those people on there are telling you nonsense as well.

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
 
modiftek said:
Eric Gisin:

Look, I don't come on here just because I want to make myself foolish
or dispute what methods other people apply in solving their computer
problems. If you know this industry well you will recognize that there
is no one method used in solving problems relating to computer hardware
/ software issues, and that I learned from studying / fixing computer
for over a decade and a half.
[snip]

The majority of the time that error points to a floppy in the FDD which
the computer tries to boot from but, because the files are corrupt or
the NTLDR is not present on the floppy the system returns that error.

Plain wrong. The "NTLDR missing" error message is issued by the boot sector of
the *hard drive* boot partition when failing to load NTLDR for whatever reason.
The message is part of the data that can be found in the boot sector of
partitions that boot NT, W2K or XP. You won't normally find it in floppies'
boot sectors, only in those that were created as an emergency boot disk during
the OS installation, and as we know, very few users possess such disk.

A floppy left in the A: drive will normally show the legacy message "Invalid
system disk" and/or "replace the disk, and then press any key". Besides the
"system" does NOT issue the "NTLDR missing" message, because the system won't
even start to load when the NT loader is missing. The only message in regards
to NTLDR which is issued by NTLDR itself is "NTLDR is corrupt".

[snip]
However, follow the link and read the information on there and tell me
if those people on there are telling you nonsense as well.

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm

The page provides good information, except for the following phrase:

"Many times this error is caused when the computer is attempting to boot from a
non-bootable floppy disk or CD-ROM." It's plain wrong, and if you had read
previous posts in the thread before posting yours, then you would have known
why.

Regards, Zvi
 
*****************************************************************************************
The page provides good information, except for the following phrase:

"Many times this error is caused when the computer is attempting to
boot from a
non-bootable floppy disk or CD-ROM." It's plain wrong, and if you had
read
previous posts in the thread before posting yours, then you would have
known
why.

Regards, Zvi
*****************************************************************************************

It is a very bad thing when some of you on here argue and portray
yourselves as the sole authority on issues, especially as in your case,
attempting to critique what others say when Microsoft itself says that
the NTLDR message does occur for reasons both that site and I
explained.

As I stated before, there is no one way to approach the fixing of
hardware / software issues in this industry and I won't make myself a
dummy by telling people on here that I have the sole remedy for their
problems, neither would I plain knock down someone else's theory or
know how. To be honest, I come on here with and open mind because I
know there are people here that are capable of teaching / sharing
valuable information and if I refrain from making myself a Doubting
Thomas I might learn a thing or two.

Since joining this discussion I have recreated the NTLDR error message
at will and in exactly the way Microsoft says it can occur. I have
learned through the years that if you are able to recreate a problem,
you will eventually know how to fix it.

In saying that, read below and go take this up with Microsoft if you
feel that they put out misinformation on their website. And no, I
won't include the link because some of us know it all already and so,
I won't waste my time.

SYMPTOMS
you get an error that NTLDR is not found or missing during bootup.


CAUSE
This issue may occur if your start device (such as a floppy disk drive,
hard disk drive, or CD-ROM drive) does not contain boot files.


Back to the top

RESOLUTION
Remove the non-system disk from your boot device. For example, remove
the non-system disk from the floppy drive or the CD-ROM drive.

Change your computer's boot sequence. Make sure that your computer's
first boot sequence is the CD-ROM Drive.

1.Insert the Windows XP CD-ROM into the CD-ROM drive, and then restart
the computer.

Click to select any options that are required to start the computer
from the CD-ROM drive if you are prompted.

2.When the "Welcome to Setup" screen appears, press R to start the
Recovery Console.

3.If you have a dual-boot or multiple-boot computer, select the
installation that you must access from the Recovery Console.

4.When you are prompted, type the Administrator password. If the
administrator password is blank, just press ENTER.

5.Enter in the following commands

COPY X:i386NTLDR C:
COPY X:i386NTDETECT.COM C:
[where X=CD ROM Drive]
Take out the CD ROM and type exit
 
It is a very bad thing when some of you on here argue
and portray yourselves as the sole authority on issues,

You're lying now. No one did that.

And its completely trivial for anyone with a clue to PROVE
that a non bootable floppy DOES NOT PRODUCE THAT
NTLDR MISSING MESSAGE WHEN YOU TRY TO BOOT IT.
especially as in your case, attempting to critique what others
say when Microsoft itself says that the NTLDR message does
occur for reasons both that site and I explained.

Microsoft doesnt actually say what you said.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555304&sd=rss&spid=3223
actually says

This issue may occur if your start device (such as a floppy disk drive,
hard disk drive, or CD-ROM drive) does not contain boot files.

Thats talking about a different situation to just any old non bootable floppy,
its talking about a 2K emergency boot floppy that has lost its NTLDR file.
As I stated before, there is no one way to approach
the fixing of hardware / software issues in this industry

There is with as specific an error message as that one.
and I won't make myself a dummy by telling people
on here that I have the sole remedy for their problems,

You did however make a spectacular fool of yourself when
you flaunted the fact that you dont understand the basics
of what can produce that specific error message.

And you're so stupid that you cant manage to check
for yourself that what you are being told now is correct.
neither would I plain knock down someone else's theory or know how.

More fool you with as specific a fault condition as that particular one
where its completely trivial to prove that normal non boot floppys
DO NOT PRODUCE THAT PARTICULAR ERROR MESSAGE.
To be honest, I come on here with and open mind because
I know there are people here that are capable of teaching /
sharing valuable information and if I refrain from making
myself a Doubting Thomas I might learn a thing or two.

You clearly dont have enough of a clue to actually think about
what you have been told and check for yourself what happens
error message wise when you attempt to boot a normal non
bootable floppy. YOU DONT GET THAT ERROR MESSAGE.
YOU GET A QUITE DIFFERENT ONE.
Since joining this discussion I have recreated the NTLDR error
message at will and in exactly the way Microsoft says it can occur.

Pity that is nothing like the situation you made such a spectacular
fool of yourself about when you proclaimed that any normal non
bootable floppy can produce that specific error message. It cant.
I have learned through the years that if you are able to
recreate a problem, you will eventually know how to fix it.

You cant even manage the basics of actually recreating the particular
scenario being discussed, A NORMAL NON BOOTABLE FLOPPY.
In saying that, read below and go take this up with Microsoft
if you feel that they put out misinformation on their website.

It isnt saying anything like your original pig ignorant claim.
And no, I won't include the link because some of us
know it all already and so, I won't waste my time.

Couldnt even bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag
even if its pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.

Anyone with a clue can find the url just by
doing a phrase search in google, stupid.
SYMPTOMS
you get an error that NTLDR is not found or missing during bootup.
CAUSE
This issue may occur if your start device (such as a floppy disk drive,
hard disk drive, or CD-ROM drive) does not contain boot files.

Nothing like your original claim about a normal non bootable floppy.
 
modiftek said:
Eric Gisin
Look, I don't come on here just because I want to make myself foolish

That happens anyway, regardless of your intentions on that.
or dispute what methods other people
apply in solving their computer problems.

Some of us use rigorous engineering on the basics like
which MBRs produce which specific error messages.

Obviously thats completely beyond the likes of you.
If you know this industry well you will recognize
that there is no one method used in solving problems
relating to computer hardware / software issues,

There is with that specific question being discussed,
just which MBRs produce which specific error messages.

Completely trivial for anyone with even
half a clue to work that simple stuff out.
and that I learned from studying / fixing
computer for over a decade and a half.

But clearly dont have enough viable between your
ears to be able to manage VERY basic stuff like
which MBRs produce which specific error messages.
In saying that, I am going to allow you time to do some research
or ask any good neighborhood technician what is the first thing they
look at when faced with this error and listen to what they tell you.

Dont need to do either thanks. Neither does Gisin.
The majority of the time that error points to a floppy in the FDD which
the computer tries to boot from but, because the files are corrupt or
the NTLDR is not present on the floppy the system returns that error.

Wrong. The MBR on a floppy does NOT produce that
PARTICULAR error message when you attempt to boot a non
bootable floppy. Specificially it does NOT whine about NTLDR.
Most good technicians look at the FDD first

Not when the error message mentions NTLDR. Pointless in that case.

BECAUSE THE FLOPPY MBR DOESNT PRODUCE THAT ERROR MESSAGE.
before tearing apart the computer and start examining IDE
cables, deleting partitions, reformatting hard drives and running
Chkdsk or start recovery console to solve this problem.
If you read what I wrote carefully you will notice that
I stated that I hoped the user did not go out and get a
technician or had already applied the hard drive utility to
bring the system back to order before first checking the FDD.

And that was a stupid thing to suggest WHEN THE
ERROR MESSAGE MENTIONS A MISSING NTLDR.

YOU ACTUALLY GET A DIFFERENT ERROR MESSAGE
IF YOU ATTEMPT TO BOOT A NON BOOTABLE FLOPPY.
Some people lose data and precious time over this situation
when most times fixing the problem requires the simple
removal of a floppy disk before booting the PC.

NOT WHEN THE ERROR MESSAGE MENTIONS A MISSING NTLDR.

YOU ACTUALLY GET A DIFFERENT ERROR MESSAGE
IF YOU ATTEMPT TO BOOT A NON BOOTABLE FLOPPY.
Anyway, just not to make this a lecture and on realizing some of us are
set in our ways and beliefs, I am not going to attempt to educate you.

No chance of that, you dont have a clue about the basics.
However, follow the link and read the information on there and
tell me if those people on there are telling you nonsense as well.

Yep, its complete pig ignorant drivel with the floppy drive or cdrom drive.
 
Just to be completely clear, its very unlikely indeed
that the original poster managed to have a damaged
2K emergency boot floppy in the floppy drive

So your original 'suggestion' on what can produce that
SPECIFIC ERROR MESSAGE is in fact WAY down the
list of real possibilitys, well after the much more likely
possibility of hard drive corruption or drive type change etc.
 
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