Hard drive problem

[Void]

Hi, I started having a hrd drive problem yesterday - disk drive detection in
BIOS doesn't detect it as a 60GB drive (which it is) anymore, but instead as
a 32GB drive. And to make things stranger, it seems that the first 32GB of
the drive are working correctly (I have a 20GB win98 partition first). I
wonder if anyone had a similar problem and was the melfunction in
a) Hard drive (electronics)
b) Hard drive (mechanics)
c) Controller on the motherboard
d) Something else

I tried entering drive characteristics manually in BIOS but got pretty
confused by it - autodetection says that it has about 65000 cylinders. Using
that setting it calculates the disk drive size of the mentioned 32GB. On the
drive itself it is written that it has around 16000 cylinders. But if I
enter that value, the BIOS calculates that the drive has only 8GB. The rest
of the settings like the number of heads, number of sectors per track etc
seem fine. What am I doing wrong?
BTW the hard drive is IBM deskstar IC35L060AVER07 and the motherboard is
Gigabyte 7VRXP.

Thank you in advance for the replies.

 

[Rod Speed]

I started having a hrd drive problem yesterday

Was that after doing anything unusual ?

- disk drive detection in BIOS doesn't detect it as a 60GB
drive (which it is) anymore, but instead as a 32GB drive.

There are a couple of mechanisms to do that deliberately,
the main one is a jumper on the physical drive. Its possible
that you have managed to jumper it to behave like that if
you have been changing the jumpers. Or the drive may have
failed so that it looks like the jumper has been set to do that.

Its also possible to 'short stroke' the drive, tell it to behave like
a 32GB drive. That's normally dont with Drive Feature Tool but
it isnt the only thing that can do that. Have you used one of those ?

And to make things stranger, it seems that the first 32GB of the
drive are working correctly (I have a 20GB win98 partition first).

You'd get that effect with either of the two mechanisms above.

I wonder if anyone had a similar problem and was the melfunction in
a) Hard drive (electronics)
b) Hard drive (mechanics)
c) Controller on the motherboard
d) Something else

I tried entering drive characteristics manually in BIOS

Dont do that, it isnt that. And you can lose the data on the drive.

but got pretty confused by it - autodetection says that it
has about 65000 cylinders. Using that setting it calculates
the disk drive size of the mentioned 32GB. On the drive
itself it is written that it has around 16000 cylinders.

Both arent the actual number of physical cylinders, heads
and sectors per track, they are fake numbers basically.

But if I enter that value, the BIOS calculates that the drive has only 8GB.

That's normal. You should be using LBA for a drive that big.

The rest of the settings like the number of heads,
number of sectors per track etc seem fine.

They are still logical numbers, not real ones.

What am I doing wrong?

Not using the AUTO drive type.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Hi, I started having a hrd drive problem yesterday - disk drive detection in
BIOS doesn't detect it as a 60GB drive (which it is) anymore,

Did it actually do that before or do you *think* it did just
because you could use the full 60GB before, but not now?

With drive overlays the drive is programmed to a (semi) permanent
32GB to avoid the bios (larger than) 32GB bug at POST.
The drive overlay at boot then sets the drive back to it's original size.

If the drive overlay fails then the drive stays at 32GB leading to what
you experience now.

but instead as a 32GB drive.
And to make things stranger, it seems that the first 32GB of the
drive are working correctly (I have a 20GB win98 partition first).
I wonder if anyone had a similar problem and was the melfunction in
a) Hard drive (electronics)
b) Hard drive (mechanics)
c) Controller on the motherboard
d) Something else

I tried entering drive characteristics manually in BIOS but got pretty
confused by it - autodetection says that it has about 65000 cylinders.

That is a CHS like (ie a fake) notation for the drive's capacity. It calcu-
lated that number from the capacity stored in the drive Identify sector
The number can be used by software (like the IDE bios e.g.) that doesn't
accept LBA numbers but internally calculates it into an LBA again that
*is* accepted by the drive.

Using that setting it calculates the disk drive size of the mentioned 32GB.

Right.
With some BIOSes this number may actually and unsuspectedly set the
capacity of the drive if you do something that you are not supposed to do.
In the event that you have such a bios then it can also be used to set the
original capacity back.

On the drive itself it is written that it has around 16000 cylinders.

That is the maximum number supported in CHS at the physical side
of the BIOS interface (IDE) and amounts to ~8GB, the CHS limit.

 

[Void]

Hi, I started having a hrd drive problem yesterday - disk drive
detection in

Did it actually do that before or do you *think* it did just
because you could use the full 60GB before, but not now?

Now that I think of it I couldn't be certain, but I think that it (promise
RAID/ATA133 controller autodetection, run at each starting of the machine,
maybe someone else could say if it reports the correct drive size) reported
the correct size before because I noticed that it reports only 32GB strait
away after it failed.

With drive overlays the drive is programmed to a (semi) permanent
32GB to avoid the bios (larger than) 32GB bug at POST.
The drive overlay at boot then sets the drive back to it's original size.

If the drive overlay fails then the drive stays at 32GB leading to what
you experience now.

And if the drive overlay fails - would that be the motherboard issue or the
drive issue?

 

[Void]

I started having a hrd drive problem yesterday

Was that after doing anything unusual ?

No, I haven't done anything that could cause that. In fact I haven't even
used that computer in a long time. It is mainly used by my familly members
to view email, surf, use office applications etc. so I don't think that
anyone of them could cause it either.

Its also possible to 'short stroke' the drive, tell it to behave like
a 32GB drive. That's normally dont with Drive Feature Tool but
it isnt the only thing that can do that. Have you used one of those ?

No, but is there a way to undo this, tell it to behave normally again? And
would that even make sense considering that it didn't start to behave
strange because of one of those tools?

 

[Arno Wagner]

Hi, I started having a hrd drive problem yesterday - disk drive detection in
BIOS doesn't detect it as a 60GB drive (which it is) anymore, but instead as
a 32GB drive. And to make things stranger, it seems that the first 32GB of
the drive are working correctly (I have a 20GB win98 partition first). I
wonder if anyone had a similar problem and was the melfunction in
a) Hard drive (electronics)
b) Hard drive (mechanics)
c) Controller on the motherboard
d) Something else

I tried entering drive characteristics manually in BIOS but got pretty
confused by it - autodetection says that it has about 65000 cylinders. Using
that setting it calculates the disk drive size of the mentioned 32GB. On the
drive itself it is written that it has around 16000 cylinders. But if I
enter that value, the BIOS calculates that the drive has only 8GB. The rest
of the settings like the number of heads, number of sectors per track etc
seem fine. What am I doing wrong?
BTW the hard drive is IBM deskstar IC35L060AVER07 and the motherboard is
Gigabyte 7VRXP.

Thank you in advance for the replies.

This drive has a jumper to limit is to 32GB, I believe. Maybe something
has shortened that jumper (Insects?). Unlikely as it is, that is easiest
to check and rectify.

On the other hand the product manual says that even then the number
of cylinders will stay 16383, so what you are seeing is not a standard
capacity clipping by the drive. That means something is seriously wrong.

Hmmm. May still be a cabeling or signalling problem, if a bizzare one.
You should remove and re-seat all the connectors for this drive, just
in case.

In the same venue are a failing PSU and other electrical problems,
including an issue with the CMOS-RAM (unlikely) or the FLAS-BIOS
(unlikely).

As a next step, I would advise you tor try the drive in a different
computer in order to isolate the problem better. This may turn
out to be difficult to diagnose. But if the drive works on another
computer, you can at least do a backup.

Arno

Jumper settings:
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d60gxp/d60gxpjum.htm
Other Docu:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_60GXP

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

This drive has a jumper to limit is to 32GB, I believe.

No? You think so?

Maybe something has shortened that jumper (Insects?).

Insect poop, definetely.

Unlikely as it is, that is easiest to check and rectify.

Yeah, use toilet paper, obviously.
And catch that bug so it doesn't poop on it again.

On the other hand the product manual says that even then the number
of cylinders will stay 16383,

You needed the product manual for that basic knowledge? Good for you.

so what you are seeing is not a standard capacity clipping by the drive.

No kidding. As if there would be such a thing.

That means something is seriously wrong.

Yeah. Could it be you, babblemouth.

Hmmm.
Hmmm.

May still be a cabeling or signalling problem, if a bizzare one.

Yup very bizzare. Very very very.

You should remove and re-seat all the connectors for this drive, just
in case.

Really no idea, haven't you, babblemouth.

In the same venue are a failing PSU and other electrical problems,
including an issue with the CMOS-RAM (unlikely) or the FLAS-BIOS
(unlikely).

Yeah, and what not.

As a next step, I would advise you

Oh, there he goes again, Arnie the Advisor.

tor try the drive in a different computer in order to isolate the
problem better.

It's clipped. Get it into your skull.

 

[Rod Speed]

No, I haven't done anything that could cause that. In fact I haven't
even used that computer in a long time. It is mainly used by my
familly members to view email, surf, use office applications etc.
so I don't think that anyone of them could cause it either.

Its always much harder to be sure what someone else may have done.

No, but is there a way to undo this, tell it to behave normally again?

Yes, if that has been done, you can reverse that.

And would that even make sense considering that it didn't
start to behave strange because of one of those tools?

Hard to be sure what someone else has done, particularly
if they did use one and dont have the balls to admit it now.

You could see what Feature Tool says about the drive size. Its now
on the Hitachi site since Hitachi bought the IBM hard drive operation.

I'd personally image the drive, go right back to basics with
a freshly formatted drive, see if the drive still behaves the
same way and see if the drive has got some problem with
the jumper that limits it size to 32G by checking the jumper
config and seeing if the jumper still works the way its
supposed to work, if the jumper config is correct.

If that doesnt fix the problem, just restore the image again.
You obviously need to have somewhere you can write the
image to do that tho.

 

[Rod Speed]

Now that I think of it I couldn't be certain, but I think that it
(promise RAID/ATA133 controller autodetection, run at each starting
of the machine, maybe someone else could say if it reports the
correct drive size) reported the correct size before because I
noticed that it reports only 32GB strait away after it failed.

And if the drive overlay fails - would that
be the motherboard issue or the drive issue?

More likely a drive issue, it doesnt get loaded successfully. It lives on
the first physical track that isnt used by anything else except the MBR,
so you wont necessarily notice if a sector on that track has gone bad.

You can check that possibility by running HItachi's Drive Fitness Test.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Now that I think of it I couldn't be certain, but I think that it

(promise RAID/ATA133 controller autodetection, run at each starting of the
machine, maybe someone else could say if it reports the correct drive size)

reported the correct size before because I noticed that it reports only
32GB strait away after it failed.

That's still speculation. We need to know for sure.

And if the drive overlay fails - would that be the motherboard issue or the
drive issue?

That depends on whether it still boots.
If not, an OS issue scribling over the overlay area or a bad block in that region.
If still boot then someone did an Fdisk /mbr , installing a standard MBR so the
overlay isn't started anymore.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

No, I haven't done anything that could cause that. In fact I haven't even
used that computer in a long time. It is mainly used by my familly members
to view email, surf, use office applications etc. so I don't think that
anyone of them could cause it either.


No, but is there a way to undo this, tell it to behave normally again?

Use 'Drive Feature Tool' maybe?
Or would that be drawing conclusions from the previous paragraph.

And would that even make sense considering that it didn't start to behave
strange because of one of those tools?

No. It would be one way to set the capacity back.
But it wouldn't cure the problem if that overlay (assuming there was one)
was there for good reason. For that you have to re-install the overlay.
But setting the capacity back first may help in determining whether the
overlay issue needs solving or not. You can still set the capacity back
to 32GB if the latter turns out to be the case and proceed from there.

 

[Odie Ferrous]

Oh, there he goes again, Arnie the Advisor.

Actually, Folkert, "Arnie the Advisor" has a lot more credibility than
you.

His Ego is on course with "normal" - whereas yours is interplanetary.
And not always justified.

I know who I'd trust in a difficult situation. I also know who I'd
rather employ.


Odie

 

[Void]

More likely a drive issue, it doesnt get loaded successfully. It lives on

the first physical track that isnt used by anything else except the MBR,
so you wont necessarily notice if a sector on that track has gone bad.

That seems the most probable cause at this time to me so far - I've had bad
sectors on this drive before and all of them were located at the beginning
of the drive (at least ScanDisk showed them at the beginning - I don't know
if this actually coresponds to the physical drive layout).
So, is it possible to fix the problem if this sector has indeed gone bad -
is it possible to move this information to the next good sector or does it
have to be located in this sector?

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Actually, Folkert, "Arnie the Advisor" has a lot more credibility than
you.

Whoopee. A minimum of one. You and who else?

His Ego is on course with "normal" -

Rotflol. You must be kidding. Yep, that's it, you're kidding.

whereas yours is interplanetary.
And not always justified.

Not always? Hey, you sure? That's actually a compliment.
Next time, better check your post before sending, Odiferous.

I know who I'd trust in a difficult situation.

I also know who I'd rather employ.

God, you have gal.
What makes you think I will want to work for the diskdrive recovery mafia.

Well, not really surprising for someone that looks for his clientele in newsgroups.

 

[Rod Speed]

That seems the most probable cause at this time to me so far

The other possibilitys are that the load mechanism
has got stomped on by replacing the MBR or its
just got wiped from the first track somehow.

- I've had bad sectors on this drive before and all of
them were located at the beginning of the drive (at least
ScanDisk showed them at the beginning - I don't know
if this actually coresponds to the physical drive layout).

Not sure what scandisk does about the first track, since it works
at the partition level, it may not even check the first track at all.

Drive Fitness Test will do tho.

So, is it possible to fix the problem if this sector has indeed
gone bad - is it possible to move this information to the next
good sector or does it have to be located in this sector?

The drive should reallocate a bad sector, but the fine
detail on when that happens is complicated with a
sector that is normally just read, not written.

I'd see what DFT says about the drive before
worrying about how to fix it if that is the problem.

Since that drive is one of the infamous 60GXPs,
I'd personally just bin it with drives so cheap.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Of course you will: it won't boot.

That seems the most probable cause at this time to me so far - I've had bad
sectors on this drive before and all of them were located at the beginning
of the drive (at least ScanDisk showed them at the beginning - I don't know
if this actually coresponds to the physical drive layout).

So, is it possible to fix the problem if this sector has indeed gone bad -
Yes.

is it possible to move this information to the next good sector

Yes and no.
No on the next logical sector, yes on the spare sector that the drive will supply
if you overwrite the bad sector. Reinstalling/repairing the overlay will do that.

or does it have to be located in this sector?

Yes.

Just re-install the drive overlay or set the capacity to 60GB with
IBM/HGST's FeatureTool if you can do without the drive overlay
and do a Fdisk/mbr if necessary.

 

[Arno Wagner]

Actually, Folkert, "Arnie the Advisor" has a lot more credibility than
you.

His Ego is on course with "normal" - whereas yours is interplanetary.

Maybe a bit larger than normal on occasion.

And not always justified.

I know who I'd trust in a difficult situation. I also know who I'd
rather employ.

Thank you. I have to say that I also find your postings
usually worthwhile reading and some very interessting.

Arno

 

[Odie Ferrous]

God, you have gal.

Actually, I have lots of "gal." I think you meant "gall."

What makes you think I will want to work for the diskdrive recovery mafia.

You wouldn't last 12 hours.

Well, not really surprising for someone that looks for his clientele in newsgroups.

People need help at reasonable prices - I can help.

Needless to say, my clientele also include multinationals, the nuclear
industry, pharmaceuticals - and I hardly trawl the groups touting for
business. If people notice my sig and I'm in a position to help them,
that's fine by me.

I don't quite understand why you have such a morbid interest in my
affairs, anyway.


Odie

 

[Joep]

Actually, I have lots of "gal." I think you meant "gall."
mafia.

You wouldn't last 12 hours.
newsgroups.

People need help at reasonable prices - I can help.

Needless to say, my clientele also include multinationals, the nuclear
industry, pharmaceuticals - and I hardly trawl the groups touting for
business. If people notice my sig and I'm in a position to help them,
that's fine by me.

I don't quite understand why you have such a morbid interest in my
affairs, anyway.

He ain't called Frustro Rienstra for nothing.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

He ain't called Frustro Rienstra for nothing.

Business slow Joepie? You sound just a teensie weensie frustrated.

Maybe you can help your buddy Odiferous out, he seems to have slow bu-
siness too, comfort each other. Maybe babblemouth can advise both of you.