Generic or compatible ink cartridges

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ken gracia

Question 1
Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name BUT is the ink in a
compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
I.E: Epson.

question 2
My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?

ken
 
When I was using the Epson C64 with the DuraBrite inks I found the
cartridges from maxpatchink.com to be great and the ink was waterproof too.
The colors were slightly different in photos but still very nice.

I tried another brand which was horrible.

But the printer clogged up too easily, even with Epson ink, even after using
a cleaning kit from maxpatchink. And it used up all its ink cleaning itself.

So I replaced it with an HP 5940 and haven't looked back. I can print with
only the black cartridge in and you get new printheads with every cartridge.
The price per page is going to be ok if the page yield they claim is
accurate.

Plus the refills from maxpatch are very cheap, though I haven't done one yet
and it looks challenging to put the vented tape on that comes with them. But
boy are they cheap. It could be challenging keeping track of how much ink
you've used after refilling, since it will read zero -- I'm using this:
http://www.pokluda.cz/support/inkmonitor.aspx
BTW if you're going to refill then don't run the cartridge dry. The HP 5940
will let you run it dry but then the cartridge's printhead is burned up. OK
if you're going to get another cartridge.

I've only had it a couple of weeks.

You do have to take out the black cartridge to put in a photo cartridge, but
it prints photos fine with the tri-color so there's no need to get a photo
cartridge.

The pigmented ink is very nearly waterproof.

I think it won't clog like the Epson because it dries slower when it hits
the air. If you print on laser paper it sits on top and will smear if you
immediately touch it. On inkjet paper it is absorbed right away.
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Question 1
Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name BUT is the ink in a
compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
I.E: Epson.

question 2
My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
Click to expand...

If talking dyes, from what i've seen the compatable solutions fade far
faster. You have the main stream stuff as used by the users here which
will fade more quickly, then you have some cheap stuff like you get in
those CIS kits on e-bay which will fade in weeks.

However you're talking Epson and pigments. There are more solutions
than you can shake a stick at... some even claiming they are archival.
A mainstream company called MediaStreet.com, and the mainstream bulk
ink from www.inksupply.com. I have less info on pigmented epson as
i've never owned one.
 
ken said:
Question 1
Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name BUT is the ink in a
compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
I.E: Epson.
Click to expand...
absolutely not
question 2
My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
Click to expand...
you do not want to use generic ink unless you are a very heavy user and
then you should think about it.
 
Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers
if one uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name...
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that the warranty says that damage caused by using third-party ink isn't covered. The company would have to prove that any damage /was/ caused that way before it could deny you service. As far as I'm aware, no company has yet even attempted to do so, never mind succeeded.
...is the ink in a compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is
in the brand name ones I.E: Epson.
Click to expand...

Third-party ink quality varies widely. Best only to buy those that someone with the same printer has used successfully.
My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges.
Click to expand...

Small point but that's 'pigment' not 'pigmented'. 'Pigmented' indicates a dye-based ink with added pigments.
Does anyone know if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
Click to expand...

I've never used third-party inks but I'd suggest only using one that clearly states whether it's dye- or pigment-based.

Jon.
 
Jon said:
I think you'll find that the warranty says that damage caused by using third-party ink isn't covered. The company would have to prove that any damage /was/ caused that way before it could deny you service. As far as I'm aware, no company has yet even attempted to do so, never mind succeeded.
Click to expand...
you have not seen every claim so that statement is ludicrus
Third-party ink quality varies widely. Best only to buy those that someone with the same printer has used successfully.
Click to expand...
but since the relabelers do not disclose what they are selling it is
likely one can get the same generics from multiple sources without
knowing it. furthermore these relabers can easily change suppliers on
their next order like you can change relabelers.
Small point but that's 'pigment' not 'pigmented'. 'Pigmented' indicates a dye-based ink with added pigments.




I've never used third-party inks
Click to expand...
then you should not tell anyone else to mess up their printer either.
but I'd suggest only using one that clearly states whether it's dye- or pigment-based.
Click to expand...
the funny thing is ther are not laws on the books making the relabelers
to properly relabel what they are selling and to disclose what that
label is on their website.
 
Thanks all for your valuable replies.
I have decided to use Epson cartridges full stop

Ken
 
ken said:
Question 1
Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name
Click to expand...

Absolutely, categorically false, as ruled by the Magnussen-Moss act.
http://think4inc.com/magnuson_moss.php
BUT is the ink in a
compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
I.E: Epson.
Click to expand...

This absolutely depends upon the supplier. We try to surpass OEM quality in
color-fastness and archival quality. Some people run junk out the door.
question 2
My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
Click to expand...

Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented--that's what supplies the
color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic or compatible
ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically, it takes very
sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as they need to be to pass
through nozzles or print head orifi in some printers such as Epson. Cheap
ink from overseas may not have pigments finely milled enough for general
usage.

Hope that helps!

thINK4inc.com
 
Trevor thank you

Here in New Zealand we have different Ink refillable shops. For my previous
printer Canon S520 I used Calidad Cartridges and often refilled From a shop
called Cartridge World.

Priced the Epson Cartridges today and $24nz or Refillable $15nz
 
trevor said:
Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented--that's what supplies
the color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic
or compatible ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically,
it takes very sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as
they need to be to pass through nozzles or print head orifi in some
printers such as Epson. Cheap ink from overseas may not have
pigments finely milled enough for general usage.

Hope that helps!

thINK4inc.com
Click to expand...

If you are a refill ink supplier and you believe "Basically ALL inkjet
printer ink is pigmented" it demonstrates a pretty basic lack of
understanding of ink. I would certainly never buy anything from you....

For the record, there are two kinds of inks generally used in consumer
class printers. Dye based inks get their colorant from dyes which are
soluble in the ink vehicle. Imagine food coloring for example.
Pigmented inks have coloring made from finely ground particles of
colorant. These remain in suspension in the vehicle and do not
dissolve.

The characteristics of pigmented ink and dye based inks are very
different, and they react differently to the media they are printed on.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
 
QUOTE:
"Pigmented inks have coloring made from finely ground particles of
colorant. These remain in suspension in the vehicle and do not
dissolve."

Okay so Am I correct in saying then that the Pigmented inks vary in the
process of grounding particles of colorant to either be quality to poor
depending on where we purchase the inks from and also who is selling it
under different label names?

ken
 
No. It's a statement of fact which includes the words: 'As far as I'm aware'. It's entirely possible that a company or more has attempted to prove it and that they have succeeded but I'm unaware of any such events. As you're such an expert on third-party inks, I'm sure that you have the facts to hand and I await details of any case so proved.

Your attempt to spell 'ludicrous', on the other hand, /is/ ludicrous.

There was more rubbish but it's not worth mentioning.

Jon.
 
Jon said:
No. It's a statement of fact which includes the words: 'As far as I'm aware'. It's entirely possible that a company or more has attempted to prove it and that they have succeeded but I'm unaware of any such events. As you're such an expert on third-party inks, I'm sure that you have the facts to hand and I await details of any case so proved.

Your attempt to spell 'ludicrous', on the other hand, /is/ ludicrous.

There was more rubbish
Click to expand...
as outlined above
 
ken said:
QUOTE:
"Pigmented inks have coloring made from finely ground particles of
colorant. These remain in suspension in the vehicle and do not
dissolve."

Okay so Am I correct in saying then that the Pigmented inks vary in the
process of grounding particles of colorant to either be quality to poor
depending on where we purchase the inks from and also who is selling it
under different label names?
Click to expand...
quality inks from OEM and you know what you are buying and it is
consistent but it is expensive.
i guess you get what you pay for
poor ink from the relabelers and you never know what you are getting and
the level of mediocrity will vary depending on who is the lowest bidder
at the time.
 
many people have reported leaky carts. now lets see you go buy from
Costco or another website and the OEM cart is around $9.00. goto a
refiller and pay $4.00 and then pay $12 for gas and (no compensation for
your time or the wear and tear on your cart and then you get results
that are less fade resistent according to pcworld. and then you have a
higher risk of clogging and that has been tested by pcworld as well.

the only way to make it pay is if you print so much that you change
carts every week.
 
trevor said:
ken gracia wrote:




Absolutely, categorically false, as ruled by the Magnussen-Moss act.
http://think4inc.com/magnuson_moss.php
Click to expand...
while literally false it is partially true since many generic carts
causes clogged printheads so the mfg does not have to fix the printer
under the warranty if the cause of the problem is generic ink.
basically no, it is not as good a quality. the oem ink was designed for
the printer by the same engineers that designed the printer. the
relabelers sell lowest bidder ink and do not disclose what they are
selling. many fail to disclose becasue they think the user will go to
their supplier. others fail to disclose because they do not want you to
track their ink and find out that it really is not up to the same snuff
as canon and epson and hp.
This absolutely depends upon the supplier. We try to surpass OEM quality in
color-fastness and archival quality. Some people run junk out the door.
Click to expand...
you gotta be carefiull what you read here since many of the posts are
plants from relabelers who are in the ink business. i do not work for a
relabeler or a printer mfg or a printer reseller. i call them as i see
them.
Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented
Click to expand...
that statement is totally false. the canon pixmas printers and the
epson r200/300 series printers are dye based with the canon having a
black pigmented cart used for text.
--that's what supplies the
color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic or compatible
ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically, it takes very
sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as they need to be to pass
through nozzles or print head orifi in some printers such as Epson. Cheap
ink from overseas may not have pigments finely milled enough for general
usage.
Click to expand...
and most of the relabelers if not all sell cheap ink.
 
measekite said:
Jon O'Brien wrote:


then you should not tell anyone else to mess up their printer either.

the funny thing is ther are not laws on the books making the relabelers
to properly relabel what they are selling and to disclose what that
label is on their website.
Click to expand...
We really don't need any more laws regulating trivial things like ink
labeling. There are more than enough trivial laws already.

TJ
 
ken gracia said:
QUOTE:
"Pigmented inks have coloring made from finely ground particles of
colorant. These remain in suspension in the vehicle and do not
dissolve."

Okay so Am I correct in saying then that the Pigmented inks vary in
the process of grounding particles of colorant to either be quality to
poor depending on where we purchase the inks from and also who is
selling it under different label names?
Click to expand...

There are an enormous number of variables that can affect ink quality.
How pigments are processed is certainly one of these. Equally or more
important are the dispersant (how the particles are kept in suspension
so they do not just settle to the bottom), the ink vehicle or carrier,
storage and handling conditions, etc, etc, etc.

Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
 
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