Free versions of Serif software

[mike ring]

I never said it was freeware, I asked if it was alright to post here
for register ware, perhaps I am in the wrong group, is there a better
newsgroup for this?.

You get all sorts here; their point of view may be valid (or not), it just
differs, and some get more agitated about the difference than others.

Try answering helpfully "I don't know any freeware that does what you want,
but I use (share or payware)". But be sure you've put your asbestos
knickers on first!

Thanks for the leads, I'm not sure if I'd convert from
Dreamweaver/PaintshopPro, (hush my mouth) but it's nice to have the chance.

mike

 

[John Fitzsimons]

news:[email protected]...

Hi Patrick,

Totally agree.

At the end of the day we (Serif) are looking for leads and hope that users will like our
software and upgrade. But if you are happy with free, then so be it.

I for one appreciate the news of the updates and the change in
registration.

Though IIRC I had no end of problems when I tried to enable my
Serif programs after moving from one computer to another. IIRC the
registration was linked to a previous email address and I had to work
out what that had been (long ago) to get things working. I sure wish
you had of had a single (portable) registration number. So changing
/upgrading my computer didn't break things so easily.

I WAS at one time interested in upgrading some/all of your programs to
their current version but IIRC there were complications due to my
being in Australia. I don't know whether that is still a problem.

If you want to further upgrade your site I suggest a "costs" page
showing how much each product would cost to upgrade to the
full commercial version(s).

Don't tell me that info is in your emails. I, and I am sure many
others, don't want to subscribe to a mailing list in order to get the
cost of software.

I am in a PC User group, and do some application training, so I
recommend software to other people. Keep improving things, and
listening to comments from users like us here, and I/others will not
mind promoting your products. Resulting (one would hope) in your
getting more sales.

As for your posting in this newsgroup. You will create problems for
yourself if you imply your software is "freeware". You will avoid a
heap of problems for yourself if you mention it is "registerware".
Something sure to annoy people here are vendors who
misrepresent what they are offering.

On a "technical" note. Do any of your "free", or "commercial" releases
now have "layers" capability ? It is a while now since I looked at
your programs and I don't remember what you have/had.

Also, are there any plans to add something like Ulead PhotoImpact's
High Dynamic Range exposure editing feature ?

IMO it is great when developers (freeware and/or commercial) are
willing to discuss their products with (potential) end users, and take
on board comments/suggestions made.

Good luck with your products. I hope things go well for you
commercially.

Regards, John.


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[2poor]

2poor

The registration process for FreeSerifSoftware has been completely
re-written. Previously it did ask many many questions before it let
you register (get the email to unlock the software) The old "full"
information was not that useful anyway, as you say most of it was
bogus. But NO we did not sell it to spammers and junkmail companies,
we use it ourselves, we want you to enjoy the free version and buy the
latest, that is how we manage to keep our company going for 18 years.

You used to want a shitload of personal information before even allowing
the download. If you want to be a player, you first have to get people
using your software, and you don't do that by throwing up all sorts of
barriers. Until recently, I'd never even heard of your company or your
software.

Now the registration process asks ONLY the following
1. Name
2. email address
3. Postcode/zipcode.

That's more like it!

The change had to have been fairly recent because I checked out your site
only a few days ago.

Every time I see registration forms wanting info like street address and
phone number, I ask myself what possible use could companies have for that
information if not to sell it to spammers, junkmailers, and telemarketers?
None, as far as I can see. And I've yet to see a company answer that
question.

Our privacy policy is linked at the bottom of every page to the site,
and is very explicit. I understand you are wary, quite right too, but
we are trying to be as up front as possible about who we are and what
we are doing. We are a commercial organisation, and would not bother
with FreeSerifSoftware if some people did not upgrade at the end of
the day. However, we are very careful about our database and it is
explicit on the site about sharing personal information and changes in
our privacy policy. Have you actually read any of the stuff on our
site, or just assuming that we are as bad as could be?

No, I haven't read your privacy policy, and I'm not assuming that your
company is bad. I was questioning the wisdom of freely handing over the
very information that spyware producers go to such lengths to collect. I
was also questioning the wisdom of companies asking for such information.
If you check out the posts to this group, you'll see that almost half of
them are security related. Viruses, malware, spyware, spam, etc. all waste
a lot of a user's tme. To me, rolling out a out long, nosy registration
form nowadays would seem like an extremely poor business practice. I see
something like that, I move on.

I never said it was freeware, I asked if it was alright to post here
for register ware, perhaps I am in the wrong group, is there a better
newsgroup for this?.

No, this is the group you want.

Sorry about the hard time. Just taking the opportunity to sound off a
little.

Most software developers don't have the guts to field questions in a public
forum, so congrats on that.

 

[2poor]

No one is making you download or use it are they so what is you
problem ?!?!?!?!

I was complaining, not relating a problem.

I don't appreciate companies asking me for all my personal information just
for the *privilege* of downloading software I don't even know is worth
downloading. That's my beef.

 

[Rod]

I never said it was freeware, I asked if it was alright to post here
for register ware, perhaps I am in the wrong group, is there a better
newsgroup for this?.

This one is fine, allthough as you found out not everyone agrees.
The consensus in this newsgroup seems to be that there is no consensus
about several subjects (flooding, ware-status, etc).
There are more registerware programs recomended here (e.g. AVG).
I have no problem with that, that's what I use my web-based email for:
registration and information purposes. And I want to add that I never got
spammed when I registered for Photoplus 5.5.
Speaking of Photoplus, I for one am very glad you made version 6
freeware/registerware.
It's the closest to Photo$hop free software I know of, and far less
bloated.
And it sure beats Pixia and the Gimp in my opinion. (I kept Photofiltre on
my system, allthough I hardly ever use it anymore since I got Photoplus 6)

 

[Patrick Connor]

John,

Thank you for the time taken to reply.

Answers inline

I for one appreciate the news of the updates and the change in
registration.

Though IIRC I had no end of problems when I tried to enable my
Serif programs after moving from one computer to another. IIRC the
registration was linked to a previous email address and I had to work
out what that had been (long ago) to get things working. I sure wish
you had of had a single (portable) registration number. So changing
/upgrading my computer didn't break things so easily.

The registration key is currently hard drive specific, so installing on another computer
requires a new registration key.

I WAS at one time interested in upgrading some/all of your programs to
their current version but IIRC there were complications due to my
being in Australia. I don't know whether that is still a problem.

Sorry, that does not sound right to me, but sales is not my area. Calling our uk sales
office should normally result in no end of people

If you want to further upgrade your site I suggest a "costs" page
showing how much each product would cost to upgrade to the
full commercial version(s).

Thank you I have passed this on to the site developers.

Don't tell me that info is in your emails. I, and I am sure many
others, don't want to subscribe to a mailing list in order to get the
cost of software.

In downloading the software you are agreeing to subscribe to an email list. The emails you
recieve will contain appropriate upgrade costs for what you have downloaded, and an
unsubscribe link, as described elsewhere in the thread. This is a marketing thing, but I
have passed your comments on to markettng.

I am in a PC User group, and do some application training, so I
recommend software to other people. Keep improving things, and
listening to comments from users like us here, and I/others will not
mind promoting your products. Resulting (one would hope) in your
getting more sales.

We are keen to hear from users, and you may know about our newsgroups news.serif.com or
the more widely used forum
www.serif.com/forums.asp where we have a "customer suggestions" section. I am all for
driving the product forward in a user centred way, and the other programmers are always
looking for the next technology to incorporate, so we have a balance there. Getting the
balance right is tricky.

As for your posting in this newsgroup. You will create problems for
yourself if you imply your software is "freeware". You will avoid a
heap of problems for yourself if you mention it is "registerware".
Something sure to annoy people here are vendors who
misrepresent what they are offering.

Thank you for your advice.

On a "technical" note. Do any of your "free", or "commercial" releases
now have "layers" capability ? It is a while now since I looked at
your programs and I don't remember what you have/had.

PagePlus 10 is the first DTP app to have layers. This is the latest commercial PagePlus
DrawPlus 4 (free version) has layers as you would expect of a drawing program.
PhotoPlus 6 (free version) has layers as you would expect of a pixel editing program

Also, are there any plans to add something like Ulead PhotoImpact's
High Dynamic Range exposure editing feature ?

No, but I have discussed this with the PhotoPlus lead developer, who says that it requires
16 bit RAW files and is being considered.

IMO it is great when developers (freeware and/or commercial) are
willing to discuss their products with (potential) end users, and take
on board comments/suggestions made.

Good luck with your products. I hope things go well for you
commercially.

<snip>

Thank you.

 

[Patrick Connor]

Eric,

I am pleased you prefer PagePlus SE, I will pass your comments on to the team.

 

[Patrick Connor]

2poor

Thank you for the clear explanation, that was what I thought you meant.

No, I haven't read your privacy policy, and I'm not assuming that your
company is bad. I was questioning the wisdom of freely handing over the
very information that spyware producers go to such lengths to collect. I
was also questioning the wisdom of companies asking for such information.
If you check out the posts to this group, you'll see that almost half of
them are security related. Viruses, malware, spyware, spam, etc. all waste
a lot of a user's tme. To me, rolling out a out long, nosy registration
form nowadays would seem like an extremely poor business practice. I see
something like that, I move on.

Fortunately when this re-write came up, we have an enlightened web developer who basically
agrees with you and took out of the old site everything that was off-putting and poor (
from our point of view) but we have to leave in the bare minimum registration to still
generate leads.

Sorry about the hard time. Just taking the opportunity to sound off a
little.

I used to lurk here 2-3 years ago, so I expected far worse from the reputation of the old
site, it's fine.

Most software developers don't have the guts to field questions in a public
forum, so congrats on that.

Ta.

 

[Patrick Connor]

Sorry about the "personal reply" yesterday, I hit the wrong button

What features are not available with the SE, compared to the commercial
v 9/10.0 editions?

the Free Serif Software Pages
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/PagePlus/default.asp and other links from there
describe PPSE well,
PagePlus 9 is described here
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus9/
and 10 is here
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus10/

Essentially PagePlus SE 1.0 is a simple DTP app, which can create multi-page imposed
documents for desktop printing.


PagePlus 9 will add many things including the following

Mail Merge facilities
PDF output, with PDFx1a output
CMYK separations to postscript printers
3D object
Filter effects
Fill tools
Transparency tools

The differences between PP9 and PP10 can be seen on this page
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus10/pp-newfeatures.asp
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus10/pp-newfeatures2.asp
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus10/pp-newfeatures3.asp
and
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus10/pp-newfeatures4.asp

including
Book facilities,
multiple layers per page
Unicode support
photo merge
Picture frames
etc

 

[John Fitzsimons]

news:[email protected]...

Hi Patrick,

The registration key is currently hard drive specific, so installing on another computer
requires a new registration key.

Ah ! That explains why I had so many problems !

So let me see if I understand things correctly. I do a full backup of
my HDD regularly as I could have a HDD failure and/or trojan and/or
virus. If any of those things happened and I couldn't use/access my
original HDD then your software wouldn't work on the backup drive ?

I change computers and/or hard drives regularly so it looks like your
software wouldn't be any good for me then. Re-registering software
every time I upgrade my computer, and/or HDD, is something I have
no intention of doing. Re-registering sounds just too much like MS
(big brother) product activation for my liking. :-(

Sorry, that does not sound right to me, but sales is not my area. Calling our uk sales
office should normally result in no end of people

You want me to phone the U.K. to find out the prices etc. You do know
where Australia is ? No, I am not going to make international phone
calls to get information that should be freely available on your web
site.

Thank you I have passed this on to the site developers.

In downloading the software you are agreeing to subscribe to an email list. The emails you
recieve will contain appropriate upgrade costs for what you have downloaded, and an
unsubscribe link, as described elsewhere in the thread. This is a marketing thing, but I
have passed your comments on to markettng.

I know something of Serif from reviews and past posts in this
newsgroup. So downloading, in this case, isn't such a big deal.

Usually however if I was looking to BUY a program I would NOT
download it if I didn't know the price FIRST.

I am not interested in downloading a program if it turns out to be
another Photoshop in price. There are a number of "interesting"
programs that I have come across on the net costing four figure
amounts.

You might not want to put prices on your site but if that's the case
then you will lose sales to people like myself who want to know the
cost of something before downloading anything.

We are keen to hear from users, and you may know about our newsgroups news.serif.com or

Umm. No. I didn't know about your newsgroups. Thanks for pointing them
out. I suggest however that you consider having a usenet newsgroup for
your products. You could use your current newsgroups, forum and
mailing lists to get sufficient interest to vote for it and populate
it with posts afterwards.

the more widely used forum
www.serif.com/forums.asp

I HATE web forums.

where we have a "customer suggestions" section. I am all for
driving the product forward in a user centred way, and the other programmers are always
looking for the next technology to incorporate, so we have a balance there. Getting the
balance right is tricky.

PagePlus 10 is the first DTP app to have layers. This is the latest commercial PagePlus
DrawPlus 4 (free version) has layers as you would expect of a drawing program.
PhotoPlus 6 (free version) has layers as you would expect of a pixel editing program

Thank you for such a detailed answer. Much appreciated. I have your
programs, and many others, all bundled together in a "graphics"
directory and I have no trouble at all in getting confused about what
programs do what.

No, but I have discussed this with the PhotoPlus lead developer, who says that it requires
16 bit RAW files and is being considered.

< snip >

Tell him that it needs to "natively" use Nikon D70 RAW files.

Not only for dynamic range control but also for general editing.
Hopefully while retaining exif info etc.

Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
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/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[2poor]

Fortunately when this re-write came up, we have an enlightened web
developer who basically agrees with you and took out of the old site
everything that was off-putting and poor ( from our point of view) but
we have to leave in the bare minimum registration to still generate
leads.

Major improvement!

Can't say I like this hard drive-specific unlock key thing, though. If you
say that the software is free to use for as long as I like, I shouldn't
have to re-register and get a new key if I get a new hard drive (which I
intend to do in a few months). Seeing as how you've made it easier to get
your software, I don't see the necessity for it anyway.

Programs like yours take time to learn, and I, the user, am investing my
time by learning it. Where's my guarantee that my time won't have been
wasted because a few months down the road I can't get a new key for some
reason or another?

Another thing. I take it that your software queries the hard drive and
generates the serial number from the info the drive returns? If so, you
need to inform the user of that fact and explain exactly what info is
contained in the serial, as AntiVir does.

 

[Patrick Connor]

Major improvement!

Can't say I like this hard drive-specific unlock key thing, though. If you
say that the software is free to use for as long as I like, I shouldn't
have to re-register and get a new key if I get a new hard drive (which I
intend to do in a few months). Seeing as how you've made it easier to get
your software, I don't see the necessity for it anyway.

Programs like yours take time to learn, and I, the user, am investing my
time by learning it. Where's my guarantee that my time won't have been
wasted because a few months down the road I can't get a new key for some
reason or another?

Another thing. I take it that your software queries the hard drive and
generates the serial number from the info the drive returns? If so, you
need to inform the user of that fact and explain exactly what info is
contained in the serial, as AntiVir does.

2poor,

Thank you for your reply, I will pass your comments on to our web developer and marketing

I am not in any position to change our existing registration process, but I can only try
to reassure you that we intend to keep the registration process going, as this is our only
way of generating leads. The only necessity for it being the way it is, is that if we
didn't then you could "register" our software just by knowing the registration code from
someone else, so we would not get the lead. It's not good for you guys who change hardware
a lot, I know, but re-registering with the same email address for your new hard drive will
not result in two entries in our database, we obviously filter out duplicates.

 

[granpaw]

snip

2poor,

Thank you for your reply, I will pass your comments on to our web
developer and marketing

I am not in any position to change our existing registration process,
but I can only try to reassure you that we intend to keep the
registration process going, as this is our only way of generating
leads. The only necessity for it being the way it is, is that if we
didn't then you could "register" our software just by knowing the
registration code from someone else, so we would not get the lead.
It's not good for you guys who change hardware a lot, I know, but
re-registering with the same email address for your new hard drive
will not result in two entries in our database, we obviously filter
out duplicates.

Leads?? And just what are leads worth?

 

[Mel]

Leads?? And just what are leads worth?

If you don't want to be a lead, just say no to their software products.
There are plenty of other software products around that do the same job.

 

[Patrick Connor]

Leads?? And just what are leads worth?

They are our company's life blood. We don't expect 100% conversion, but leads are worth
money, to us anyway. Feel free to unsubscribe from any offers you do not wish to receive,
but enough are impressed enough to upgrade that this is a worthwhile exercise for us. If
it wasn't we would not do it.

 

[Harvey Van Sickle]

On 17 Feb 2005, Patrick Connor wrote

whayface

I should let him/her answer for himself/herself, I think the
"problem" was our old registration process was painful and asked
for loads of info like address and so forth, but it has been
greatly streamlined, see my other post.

FWIW, Patrick -- and I don't mean this aggressively, it's more on the
level of "for informatiton", I've steered clear of Serif stuff for a
couple of years now because of the previous policy.

ISTR that one of the "required" fields when I tried something was a
phone number, and I was stupidly honest. I didn't appreciate being
cold-called to push upgrade deals, and have avoided your firm's
products -- purchased or register/free -- ever since.

If you've changed the policy on information gathering/use, I think
you're very wise!

 

[granpaw]

If you don't want to be a lead, just say no to their software products.
There are plenty of other software products around that do the same job.

Aw heck I knew that, I just wanted to hear it from him as I did in the next
post in the thread.
And no, I have/had no intention of becoming a "lead" for any of these
mistakenly labeled free programs. IE: that which is free but-first-you-
must-register,-fill out a form,-swear an oath,-give up,-whatever...
That ain't free!

 

[granpaw]

If you don't want to be a lead, just say no to their software products.
There are plenty of other software products around that do the same job.

Aw heck I knew that, I just wanted to hear it from him as I did in the next
post in the thread.
And no, I have/had no intention of becoming a "lead" for any of these
mistakenly labeled free programs. IE: that which is free but-first-you-
must-register,-fill out a form,-swear an oath,-give up,-whatever.
IMHO...That ain't free!

 

[Susan Bugher]

Thank you for your reply, I will pass your comments on to our web developer and marketing

I am not in any position to change our existing registration process, but I can only try
to reassure you that we intend to keep the registration process going, as this is our only
way of generating leads. The only necessity for it being the way it is, is that if we
didn't then you could "register" our software just by knowing the registration code from
someone else, so we would not get the lead. It's not good for you guys who change hardware
a lot, I know, but re-registering with the same email address for your new hard drive will
not result in two entries in our database, we obviously filter out duplicates.

Isn't the best advertising was supposed to be word of mouth?

ISTM your company's approach leads to fewer users for your free products
- and users are the people who tell others how much they like (or don't
like) a product. IOW - I suspect you are *losing* leads because you have
a mandatory registration process. . .

Grisoft has moved from mandatory registration (name and email address)
to *no* registration to download and use their free version of AVG.
Evidently their take on this is different from your company's analysis. . .

Just my two cents. . .

Susan

 

[John Fitzsimons]

I am not in any position to change our existing registration process, but I can only try
to reassure you that we intend to keep the registration process going,

Registering ONCE for a single version of a product is fine by me.

as this is our only
way of generating leads. The only necessity for it being the way it is, is that if we
didn't then you could "register" our software just by knowing the registration code from
someone else, so we would not get the lead.

That is pretty much the case with most "commercial" licences. Other
than M$ I don't see too many people panicing over the situation.

It's not good for you guys who change hardware
a lot, I know, but re-registering with the same email address for your new hard drive will
not result in two entries in our database, we obviously filter out duplicates.

Well, the registration being tied to an email address would reduce
propagation of usable registration numbers.

Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
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