Systemrecovery said:
David Maynard wrote:
thank you very much
i've made 4 passes at a config..im pretty patient..gave each try time
for the dust to settle...Im doing somethng wrong...
each time I think i am setup...i lose my network far as file sharing
I was only talking about the internet side and file sharing is a bit
different because it's probably being handled by netbios over TCP/IP on
your machines.
Flow chart of what? The machines?
INET <---> DSL router <---> machine 1(ICS) <---> machine 2 <---> machine 3
Now, machine 1 has ICS and that's NAT routing protocol but, clearly,
machine 2 has to route for machine 3's internet requests to make it to
machine 1.
im dying to know! I can't help but feel it's very simple..
i have just never seen the relationship in numbers..
in theory, I could put the right numbers in and all 3 machines could
run for 5 more years as is....I hate to jump out of the boat 5 feet
from the shore and drop 50 bucks on a router..
you say its doable...
Yes and, in fact, I have a local network that was originally a more complex
version of what you're trying to do, but I also have a domain server.
I have 1st nic set to auto - the dsl router gives it an ip, subnet and
gateway
(it is ICS enabled)
Yes, but you're confusing the mask as being 'the subnet'. The mask defines
which bits in the IP address are used to define the subnet so both make it
up. I.E. 255.255.255.0 says
^^^^^^^^^^^
these are the subnet
.... and the 0 says those bits are used to specify which individual computer
on that subnet
Put another way, any bit with a 1 in the mask is part of the subnet address
and the bits with a 0 in the mask define individual computers on that net.
So take a NIC address of 192.168.0.38 with the mask 255.255.255.255.0
192.168.0. is the subnet with up to 254 computers on it (256-2 since 0 and
255 are not usable as an individual computer IP)
Someone with a NIC having a 192.168.34.38 IP and the same 255.255.255.0
mask is a net of 192.168.34. It's not 'the same subnet' even though the
mask is the same because it's the combination of applying the mask to the
IP address that defines the subnet.
Now, let's say that your local LAN is operating in the 192.168.0. range, as
above, and you want further subnets. Make the mask 255.255.255.192 (for all
NICs on that subnet, btw)
Now, if you turn the decimal number 192 into binary so you can see the bits
that comes out as 1100 0000 (try it in Windows calculator, scientific mode.
Enter 192 in decimal and then switch to binary).
Okay, We have two more bits defining the nets, the 11 of the 1100 0000
(along with the original 255.255.255), and two binary bits have 4 possible
states, 00, 01, 10, and 11 so the original range of 192.168.0 is now 4
subnets of 192.168.0.0, 192.168.0.64, 192.168.0.128, and 192.168.0.192.
Notice the first 3 digits are the same because those are the ones in the
255.255.255. fields. The 'new' ones are from the 11 in the 1100 000 bottom
192 digit and are 'sub' to the original since all the other bits are the same.
The bits still 0 in the mask, I.E. 00 0000, are left for individual
computer addresses and that's 6 bits for 64 on each subnet, minus the 0 and
63 numbers (the first and last are unusable again) leaving 62 for actual
computer and router addresses.
Note, we could use ANY two bits in that bottom digit but using the top two
means the addresses are consecutive and easier to deal with. I.E. 1 thru 62
on the first subnet, 65 thru 126 on the second subnet, etc. but, to
illustrate, a 255.255.255.2 mask results in 4 subnets also because it
defines the same number of bits for the subnet address. But, since the
bottom two bits are used for the subnet address our computer addresses come
out a bit confusing, for me anyway, so I use the upper bits.
will I be manually configuring all 5 cards?
what dem numbers look like?
The first NIC to the DSL router can remain DHCP but all the others need to
be manually set because ICS defaults to 'one' net, not subnetted and, so,
will not assign things the way you want them.
If you wanted to use DHCP you'd have to set up a real server, like I did,
and turn on (and configure, of course) it's DHCP server but you don't have
enough computers for that to be of much use because your router, and the
server, need to be manually set anyway and that's dern near your whole set
up. Only machine 3 could get DHCP from machine 2 and it's hardly worth all
that configuring for one machine.
can you type it out for me...lol
please...
--
see, the dsl router gives the 1st card a 255.255.255.0 subnet
you say give 2nd card at 2nd pc, a sep subnet...so I see 2 subnets on
the second machine one on the left one on the right...you say..I can't
have the same subnet where two nics are on the same pc, but the 1st pc
has 2 nics and the same subnet...
No, machine 1 has two different subnets (or should), it's just that the
mask might be the same on both of them. I don't know what subnet your DSL
router is using but you said the ICS NIC IP was 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0,
which is the normal router address for a 192.168.1 subnet (mask
255.255.255.0). It's DHCP expects to give computers on your local LAN
addresses in the range of 192.168.1.2 thru 192.168.1.254 (also with a
255.255.255.0 mask), but you've only got one computer, besides the ICS
router, connected to that network, machine 2.
another question I had, is about dhcp server (if im saying that right)
domain host controller protocol...(it can assign an ip? right)...
Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol. It can assign IPs and a lot of other
things but it has to know what to do. In the case of the DSL router and ICS
it's configured, by the manufacturer, for what they imagine will be the
most common configuration but it doesn't magically figure out just whatever
you would like to do.
Your DSL router might let you configure it, like mine does, but that won't
do you a heck of a lot of good because DHCP doesn't go across routers.
Well, it can if the router knows how to DHCP relay but that's another story
and I doubt your router can be set for subnets anyway.
all 3 computers are dhcp enabled right now...(or if I do a manual
configure across the board..then dhcp servers are just idle?) im
wondering if I can turn them off
I'd leave the DSL and machine 1's NIC to it as they are now. It's ICS, and
onward, that needs to be manually set up.
You'd subnet. 192 is a nice number because it's 'more than you need' and,
so, allows for 'the future'.
You need to activate Routing and Remote Access on machine 2. I'm assuming
it's O.S. is Win2K Server because non server Windows doesn't route so, if
you have a non server Windows O.S. you'd need to get third party router
software.
You'd then setup the IPs and masks, which means changing the mask for ICS
too. Might as well keep the IP range it default assigned so your subnets
would be
192.168.1.0/255.255.255.192
192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192
192.168.1.128/255.255.255.192
192.168.1.192/255.255.255.192
Keep the first subnet on the ICS NIC, since it's already there, so you just
change the mask on machine 1's ICS NIC to 255.255.255.192. Then manually
set the first NIC on machine 2 to 192.168.1.2/255.255.255.192 so it's on
the same subnet.
So far we have
DSL < as is > machine 1: 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.192<----
--> 192.168.1.2/255.255.255.192 :machine 2
That's all there is for subnet 1.
Then the second NIC on machine 2 is for subnet 2 so make that the
192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192 range. And the router NIC address for that is
normally the first address, which is 192.168.1.65/255.255.255.192. Now,
machine 3 is on *that* subnet so make it's NIC
192.168.1.66/255.255.255.192, the next address.
So, continuing on with out network diagram we have
machine 2: 192.168.1.65/255.255.255.192 <----
---> 192.168.1.66/255.255.255.192 :machine 3
The missing NIC assignments are the default gateways and that's the router
NIC for each subnet. So, going from 3 toward DSL, the default gateway for
machine 3 is 192.168.1.65, the machine 2 NIC (so things get forwarded). The
default gateway for machine 2's NIC going to machine 1 is machine 1's NIC
address, 192.168.1.1. In the reverse direction, going from machine 1 to 3,
the default gateway for machine 1's ICS NIC is machine 2's NIC, 192.168.1.2
and machine 2's NIC going to machine 3 is 192.168.1.66 (although that last
one doesn't matter because there's no routing past machine 3, yet)
Then in Routing and Remote Access for machine 2 you define the routes,
which are
192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192 ---> 192.168.0.65 (NIC2) (send subnet 2
stuff out onto subnet 2, via NIC2, so machines on that subnet will see it)
and
192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192 ---> 192.168.0.2 (NIC1) (send subnet 1 stuff
out onto subnet 1, via NIC1, so machines on that subnet will see it)
and the magic grab all, which we do for things that don't match a defined
route (is what the 0.0.0.0 means)...
0.0.0.0 ---> 192.168.0.1 (direct to the ICS router address so it goes to
that NIC on machine 1, who's ICS grabs it and sends it out over the
internet where, hopefully, something out there knows what the heck to do
with it)
Well...Thank you for any considerations here...im having fun..
Dern shame machine 2 isn't either WinXP or Win2k3 server because, if it
was, you could just bridge the two NICs on machine 2 and make it look like
1 network, in which case it would all work 'plug and go' like you imagine
it should, DHCP and all. When bridged the machine just pukes back out on
the other NIC anything it sees, in either direction, so it's sorta like an
internal 'wire' between them. Not very efficient for a large network, since
everything goes everywhere whether needed or not using up bandwidth, but
ideal for a small home LAN.
