Fake Antivirus and Spyware Doctor, Symbiotic?

[Dustin Cook]

I also have SUPERAntiSpyware installed and it did find a few Trojans,
imediatelly. It is anti-spyware, but id did detect Trojan. Trojan is a
program, but is also a virus, or am I wrong?

A trojan is not a virus, no. A trojan is malware; but not a virus. In
order for something to legitimately be classified as a virus; it MUST
replicate, intentionally. Trojans do not replicate by themselves. A virus
has no trouble replicating once you execute the initial source.

 

[FromTheRafters]

Please name one example.

One example of what? The future? I will do that sometime tomorrow. D

The "good" virus?

None of the proposals have been accepted because it has been proven that
the same results can be achieved by programming that does not require
viral code. Cohen's "compression virus" for instance - infected and
compressed files to save storage space. When the file was invoked, the
virus executed and decompressed the rest of the file.

My main point is that there is nothing about a virus that *requires* it
to be malicious or even unwanted. The main point of detractors of this
view is that a virus "modifies files" (generally without user consent)
in such a way that they steal computing power - but this is not
necessary for a program to be a virus.

 

[FromTheRafters]

I also have SUPERAntiSpyware installed and it did find a few Trojans,
imediatelly. It is anti-spyware, but id did detect Trojan. Trojan is a
program, but is also a virus, or am I wrong?

SAS is good too, many people suggest using both (MBAM and SAS) for
better coverage.

Spyware works to get information from your computer. It can be malware
(malicious software) or an administrative tool (to spy on your kids for
instance).

Adware works to get information to your computer (advertisements "in
your face" for instance) and can be malware too if it is unwanted and
not agreed to when you installed the responsible software (ad supported
software - AntiVir free version for instance).

If a malicious virus infects a program with a copy of itself (as they
are known to do) the infected program is essentially now a trojan in
effect. It does something other than (instead of, or in addition to)
what the user assumes it will do - and since maliciousness was a given,
it is an unwanted funtion that it adds. Since that function is
replicative in nature, it is termed a virus rather than a trojan
(probably because it is more important to note that it is viral than to
note that it is *bad*).

Use the term "malware" to cover all types of malicious software, and
"virus" for recursively self-replicating code (whether malicious or
not). Don't assume that all spyware is malware or that all adware is
malware. Assuming all viruses are malware is generally a safe assumption
as it stands now, but only because examples of non-malicious viruses are
so rare.

 

[FromTheRafters]

@news.eternal-september.org:

Actually it seems more like infinitesimal points of details for
experts to
pontificate about.

Yes, it does seem that way to those that don't (and perhaps can't)
understand what the difference is. When the term virus was coined for
self-replicating code, it caught on and became a buzz word for
anything
that can go wrong with a computer. Despite that, the definition still
stands. No amount of crying will repeal that.

The potential is you are equally hosed with a virus as you are with
malware.

Most experts currently agree that all viruses are indeed malware (and
they are wrong). The fact is that a virus need not be malicious - and in
fact can be a boon to mankind in the future. A virus is a virus
because
of what it does, not because of how people feel about the results -
not
the same for malware because malware by definition is malicious.

[...]

And, malware is sometimes much easier to clean up. A fine example
would
be the rogue program known as internetsecurity(antivirus)2010; it's an
annoyance, but not too difficult. A virus on the other hand, can be a
real pisser; it has self replicating code; and it could be inside
hundreds of files on your system by the time you notice something is
amiss.

Additionally, most non-viral malware has a need to persist reboot -
often by methods easily revealed by autoruns, HJT etc...if not
rootkitted.

Many viruses won't use any of those methods - they persist by being
patient and waiting to be invoked as a matter of course.

....and then there's the polymorphic aspect - you can't just do a hash
comparison like you can with some malware.

Yes, I know I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.
) Just reiterating, here, for the readership.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

One example of what? The future? I will do that sometime tomorrow. D

The "good" virus?

None of the proposals have been accepted because it has been proven that
the same results can be achieved by programming that does not require
viral code. Cohen's "compression virus" for instance - infected and
compressed files to save storage space. When the file was invoked, the
virus executed and decompressed the rest of the file.

Huh. You did not explain anything in your reply. Interesting..

 

[FromTheRafters]

Huh. You did not explain anything in your reply. Interesting..

What *example* are you looking for?

I can't give you an example of what the future might hold.

For instance, I couldn't give you an example of a replicating robot, but
I could propose that they exist in the future. As long as the distances
are short enough, programming software for new robotic instances could
be sent from humans. Autotonomous replicating robots too for away (or
under too much radio interference) to receive new software must
replicate the software. That ability is what a computer virus is. I
propose that the future of mankind might indeed depend upon computer
viruses.

The whole virus=malware thing is just prejudice, although there are no
examples of 'the good virus' to offer that can't be shown to use the
viral capability only because there is no other way to accomplish the
task. I propose that one might exist in the future where there *is* no
non-viral alternative method to accomplish the task.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What *example* are you looking for?

I can't give you an example of what the future might hold.

Oh swell...

You said a virus need not be malicious. I asked you to name one
example. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Just name one example
of a computer virus that was not malicious.

So hows about stopping with all the psycho-babble and simply answer
the f-ing question?

Sheesh!

 

[FromTheRafters]

Oh swell...

You said a virus need not be malicious. I asked you to name one
example.

I guess English isn't your strong suit.

The phrase "need not be" is not the same as the phrase "is not". I
proposed that the future might give a need to incorporate viral code
into robotics. There were two "examples" (one of which was actually in
existence, and one only proposed) of "the good virus" - both largely
unaccepted as proof of existence because the viral code wasn't
"necessary" to accopmplish the "good" task.

IIRC Fred Cohen proposed the virus that compressed files for storge on
disk. I don't recall the author or the name of the program that provided
disk encryption via viral code.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Just name one example
of a computer virus that was not malicious.

The virus "again.com" was written without malicious intent, does that
count?

So hows about stopping with all the psycho-babble and simply answer
the f-ing question?

I did, but I guess you're just too stupid to get it!

Sheesh!

Indeed!!

 

[FromTheRafters]

Oh swell...

You said a virus need not be malicious. I asked you to name one
example.

I guess English isn't your strong suit.

The phrase "need not be" is not the same as the phrase "is not". I
proposed that the future might give a need to incorporate viral code
into robotics. There were two "examples" (one of which was actually in
existence, and one only proposed) of "the good virus" - both largely
unaccepted as proof of existence because the viral code wasn't
"necessary" to accopmplish the "good" task.

IIRC Fred Cohen proposed the virus that compressed files for storge on
disk. I don't recall the author or the name of the program that provided
disk encryption via viral code.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Just name one example
of a computer virus that was not malicious.

The virus "already.com" was written without malicious intent, does that
count?

So hows about stopping with all the psycho-babble and simply answer
the f-ing question?

I did, but I guess you're just too stupid to get it!

Sheesh!

Indeed!!