Expet Recommendation Sought

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Andy

To All Cognoscenti, Greetings!

I leave my computer on 24/7 to minimize damage due to heat fluctuations. Am
I wise or foolish to do so?

Thanks.

Andy
 
Andy said:
To All Cognoscenti, Greetings!

I'm still not a wog.
I leave my computer on 24/7 to minimize damage due to heat fluctuations. Am I
wise or foolish to do so?

That is what I do with most of the PCs that get used much.

You can make a case that its more likely to be binned because
its obsolete than it is to die due to heat fluctuations tho.
 
Andy said:
To All Cognoscenti, Greetings!

I leave my computer on 24/7 to minimize damage due to heat fluctuations.
Am I wise or foolish to do so?

Religious issue. A case can be made either way--do whichever makes you feel
better.
 
Assuming idle power consumption is 100W, that's 864kWh per year.
Now multiply that by the cost per kWh.

If your MB has faulty capacitors, they are more likely to fail 24*7.
 
I'm still not a wog.

.... and certainly not a cognoscente either it would appear.

Main Entry: co·gno·scen·te
Pronunciation: "kän-y&-'shen-tE, "käg-n&-, -'sen-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural co·gno·scen·ti /-tE/
Etymology: obsolete Italian (now conoscente), from cognoscente,
adjective, wise, from Latin cognoscent-, cognoscens, present
participle of cognoscere
: a person who is especially knowledgeable in a subject :
 
Wota steaming pig ignorant turd.
Wow, Rod, what a convincing argument you lay out.

Danny lays out a cogent set of arguments but since you say "wrong"
and call him names, I guess I must defer to your obvious wisdom and
leave my computer on all the time.

Plonk!
 
Wota steaming pig ignorant turd.
There was a recent discussion in another group on this where an
expert called w_tom made a strong case for the opposite view,
because he views that power-on surge stress on electronic
components is a myth.

Maybe he'll join this discussion...
 
Previously Andy said:
To All Cognoscenti, Greetings!
I leave my computer on 24/7 to minimize damage due to heat fluctuations. Am
I wise or foolish to do so?

If all components are at a reasonably low temperature it does not
matter. If something is warmer, it will die faster when working.

One exception is the PSU. If it is underpowerd, it will suffer
overload on any computer start and die faster when you switch
on/off a lot. The solution to this is not 24/7 operation but to
get a more powerful PSU.

Because of the last issue it can seem that 24/7 operation
is better for the computer, but it genearlly is not. It is
worse unless the machine is well cooled.

Arno
 
Sure is.
Wow, Rod, what a convincing argument you lay out.

Danny lays out a cogent set of arguments but since you say "wrong"
and call him names, I guess I must defer to your obvious wisdom and
leave my computer on all the time.
He is clueless on Win2K/XP (defrag & reboot comment),
power management (suspend), hard drive life, heat problems.
 
Thanks much for all the useful comments. Now I can see why this is such a
controversial subject.

I forgot to mention that my computer does some work every night, such as
scanning for viruses and spyware, and the occasional defrag, so my question
was more academic than practical.

Thanks again.

Andy
 
There was a recent discussion in another group on this where an
expert called w_tom made a strong case for the opposite view,

That ****wit has never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.
because he views that power-on surge
stress on electronic components is a myth.

That isnt the main reason for leaving it on. The main reason is the
inevitable temperature fluctuation get when turning it off and on.

That certainly does produce problem in some situations, particularly
with larger components and dry joints developing in monitors etc.

The main downside with leaving them on all the time is the
electricity that inevitably uses and the fact that you are less
likely to be around if the shit does hit the fan and wont be there
to turn it off before its completely ****ed with some faults.
Maybe he'll join this discussion...

He never does when I am involved, I've done
him like a dinner, time after time after time.
 
Everything has a 'power cycle' life expectancy. Let's take
the power switch. It is rated to be power cycled typically
100,000 times. And then we look at that number. That means
power cycling seven times every day for ... 39 years. So
yes, power cycling is destructive when we think subjectively.
And nobody cares once we apply numbers.

Where are these numbers that prove power cycling so
destructive? The reasoning posted here? "I always leave it
on. That proves it is better to never power cycle." Just
subjective reasoning.

That is the difference between the English major and the
science major. The latter learns to temper wild speculation
with reality - especially numbers.

Lets look closer at thermal stress from power cycling.
Well, those semiconductors are manufactured by thermal cycling
repeatedly at maybe 700 degrees F. That is thermal cycling
that also is not destructive. Therefore some tens of degrees
thermal cycling is destructive when 700 degrees is not?
Trivial temperature during power cycling is irrelevant
nonsense - once numbers are applied.

But we are not done confronting subjective speculation.
Those who advocate 'always leaving it powered' would forget
that power cycling occurs when system is running. When does
the semiconductor suffer stress? When switching? An event so
stressful that transistors will even emit IR light during the
switching process. Significant temperature changes occur at
these transistor junctions - where temperature change is
greatest - damage should be most destructive. Just another
little fact often forgotten when those who advocate 'leave it
on' make declarations about stress.

How do manufacturers specify life expectancy of parts? A
most common parameter is 'hours of operation'. Why? Hours of
operation are the most significant measurement of stress.
Digital electronics are constantly switching on and off which
would be a most stressful events - even if using subjective
reasoning. Manufacturers add numbers that also say 'hours of
operation' is the important parameter.

But don't take my word for it. Others are invited to back
up their speculations with numbers from manufacturer
datasheets. Where are the numbers that are always necessary
to temper speculation with reality? No numbers is how
propaganda experts spin their agendas. No numbers means junk
science reasoning. So where are those numbers that prove
power cycling as so destructive? I don't see any numbers
posted here.

Demonstrated is not just that destructive power cycling is
hyped by myths. Demonstrated is also how spin doctors will
openly deceive you. If you don't first demand underlying
reasons why - especially the numbers - then I also have a good
deal on an East River Bridge. You could make a killing on
this deal. Just look at the numbers ... that I
conveniently did not provide.

Power off or hibernation the machine when done to preserve
machine life expectancy. After all, it power cycling was so
destructive as others have posted, then we must always leave
on every radio, TV, light bulb, and automobile. This
destructive power cycling so often hyped by myth - junk
science promoted by 'no numbers'.
 
w_tom said:
Everything has a 'power cycle' life expectancy.

Wrong, as always.
Let's take the power switch.

That is a mechanical device, fool.
It is rated to be power cycled typically 100,000 times.

Which doesnt say anything useful about
how long it will actually last cycle wise.
And then we look at that number. That means power
cycling seven times every day for ... 39 years.

No it doesnt.
So yes, power cycling is destructive when we think subjectively.

Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.
And nobody cares once we apply numbers.
Where are these numbers that prove power cycling so destructive?

No one ever said a thing about 'so destructive' cept you.
The reasoning posted here? "I always leave it on. That proves
it is better to never power cycle." Just subjective reasoning.

You steaming turds are just terminally pig ignorant bilge.
That is the difference between the English major
and the science major. The latter learns to temper
wild speculation with reality - especially numbers.

Clearly hasnt helped you one bit.
Lets look closer at thermal stress from power cycling.
Well, those semiconductors are manufactured by
thermal cycling repeatedly at maybe 700 degrees F.

Wrong. And it aint the thermal cycling of the
semis that can cause earlier failure anyway.
That is thermal cycling that also is not destructive.

Pathetic, really.
Therefore some tens of degrees thermal
cycling is destructive when 700 degrees is not?

Pathetic, really.
Trivial temperature during power cycling is
irrelevant nonsense - once numbers are applied.

You wouldnt now how to apply numbers if
your pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.
But we are not done confronting subjective speculation.

We arent done exposing your pig ignorant bullshit either.
Those who advocate 'always leaving it powered' would
forget that power cycling occurs when system is running.

Not a ****ing clue, as always.
When does the semiconductor suffer stress? When switching?
Nope.

An event so stressful that transistors will even
emit IR light during the switching process.

Pathetic, really.
Significant temperature changes occur at these
transistor junctions - where temperature change
is greatest - damage should be most destructive.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.
Just another little fact often forgotten when those who
advocate 'leave it on' make declarations about stress.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.
How do manufacturers specify life expectancy of parts?
A most common parameter is 'hours of operation'.

Pity that the life of many components isnt related
to the hours of operation at all. In spades with PCs.
Why? Hours of operation are the most significant measurement of stress.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.
Digital electronics are constantly switching on
and off which would be a most stressful events

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.
- even if using subjective reasoning. Manufacturers add numbers
that also say 'hours of operation' is the important parameter.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.
But don't take my word for it. Others are invited to back up
their speculations with numbers from manufacturer datasheets.

Not one of which says a damned thing
about the question actually being discussed.

In fact with hard drives they actually specify the NUMBER
OF POWER CYCLES, NOT THE POWER ON HOURS.
Where are the numbers that are always
necessary to temper speculation with reality?

Where are yours ?
No numbers is how propaganda experts spin their agendas.

You in spades.
No numbers means junk science reasoning.

Not a single number of yours in this post. Funny that.
So where are those numbers that
prove power cycling as so destructive?

No one said a word about 'so destructive' except you.
I don't see any numbers posted here.

In spades with this steaming turd of yours.
Demonstrated is not just that destructive power
cycling is hyped by myths. Demonstrated is
also how spin doctors will openly deceive you.

True of your steaming turds in spades.
If you don't first demand underlying
reasons why - especially the numbers

How odd that you havent actually posted a single
number yourself, just pig ignorantly raved on, as always.
- then I also have a good deal on an East River Bridge.
You could make a killing on this deal. Just look at the
numbers ... that I conveniently did not provide.

And you never ever do. Funny that.
Power off or hibernation the machine when
done to preserve machine life expectancy.

Or tell you you've never ever had a ****ing clue.
After all, it power cycling was so destructive as others have posted,

Lying, as always. No one has even mentioned 'so destructive' except you.
then we must always leave on every
radio, TV, light bulb, and automobile.

So stupid that it hasnt even managed to work out
the difference between a PC, a car and a light bulb.

Have fun explaining clocks, ****wit.
This destructive power cycling so often hyped by myth

No one has even mentioned 'destructive power cycling' cept you.
- junk science promoted by 'no numbers'.

Your steaming turds in spades.
 
Andy said:
To All Cognoscenti, Greetings!

I leave my computer on 24/7 to minimize damage due to heat fluctuations. Am
I wise or foolish to do so?

Thanks.

Andy


Hello, Andy:

Okay, I'm aware of the term, "cognoscenti" -- but what, may I ask, is an
"expet"? :-J


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
John Turco said:
Hello, Andy:

Okay, I'm aware of the term, "cognoscenti" -- but what, may I ask, is an
"expet"? :-J


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>

Hello, John,

Touché! The wiser I get with age, the worse my spelling becomes. Dementia,
no doubt. . . . :-((

Andy
 
Previously w_tom said:
Everything has a 'power cycle' life expectancy. Let's take
the power switch. It is rated to be power cycled typically
100,000 times. And then we look at that number. That means
power cycling seven times every day for ... 39 years. So
yes, power cycling is destructive when we think subjectively.
And nobody cares once we apply numbers.
Where are these numbers that prove power cycling so
destructive? The reasoning posted here? "I always leave it
on. That proves it is better to never power cycle." Just
subjective reasoning.
That is the difference between the English major and the
science major. The latter learns to temper wild speculation
with reality - especially numbers.
Lets look closer at thermal stress from power cycling.
Well, those semiconductors are manufactured by thermal cycling
repeatedly at maybe 700 degrees F. That is thermal cycling
that also is not destructive. Therefore some tens of degrees
thermal cycling is destructive when 700 degrees is not?
Trivial temperature during power cycling is irrelevant
nonsense - once numbers are applied.
But we are not done confronting subjective speculation.
Those who advocate 'always leaving it powered' would forget
that power cycling occurs when system is running. When does
the semiconductor suffer stress? When switching? An event so
stressful that transistors will even emit IR light during the
switching process. Significant temperature changes occur at
these transistor junctions - where temperature change is
greatest - damage should be most destructive. Just another
little fact often forgotten when those who advocate 'leave it
on' make declarations about stress.
How do manufacturers specify life expectancy of parts? A
most common parameter is 'hours of operation'. Why? Hours of
operation are the most significant measurement of stress.
Digital electronics are constantly switching on and off which
would be a most stressful events - even if using subjective
reasoning. Manufacturers add numbers that also say 'hours of
operation' is the important parameter.
But don't take my word for it. Others are invited to back
up their speculations with numbers from manufacturer
datasheets. Where are the numbers that are always necessary
to temper speculation with reality? No numbers is how
propaganda experts spin their agendas. No numbers means junk
science reasoning. So where are those numbers that prove
power cycling as so destructive? I don't see any numbers
posted here.
Demonstrated is not just that destructive power cycling is
hyped by myths. Demonstrated is also how spin doctors will
openly deceive you. If you don't first demand underlying
reasons why - especially the numbers - then I also have a good
deal on an East River Bridge. You could make a killing on
this deal. Just look at the numbers ... that I
conveniently did not provide.
Power off or hibernation the machine when done to preserve
machine life expectancy. After all, it power cycling was so
destructive as others have posted, then we must always leave
on every radio, TV, light bulb, and automobile. This
destructive power cycling so often hyped by myth - junk
science promoted by 'no numbers'.

Nice posting. Apart from my comment about underpowerd PSUs
possibly suffering overload during start-up (which I personally
think started this myth: Computers running 24/7 with their
PSUs getting weaker and weaker and then failing after a power
outage) I completely agree that running the machine is
significantly more stressful than not running it and numbers
do matter.

The only exception I know is that electrolyte capacitors
will increase their leackage current when no voltage
is applied for a longer time. This problem goes away
after applying voltage for some time, i.e. it is
non-permanent damage and does not matter in computers
anyways.

Arno
 
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