Epson printers - 2400 vs. 4800 ??

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mark Anon
  • Start date Start date
Arthur Entlich said:
The inks do use glycols as wetting agents and to slow down drying, to
try to lessen clogs. Which glycol they use, I am not sure, but I
suspect it's ethylene
Click to expand...

Propylene glycol is the standard for inks. Non toxic, sometimes
found in foods; it keeps chocolate chip cookies moist after months
of sitting on the grocery store shelf.
 
Bill said:
Once again your ignorance of all things Epson shows ... you never have
to "change the black ink type" in the 4000 because it has both Photo
black and Matte black available at all times, switching between them as
required based on the chosen paper type. You are confusing that model
with others that only have a slot for one black cart at a time.




I've owned a 4000 for going on two years and never had to change the
waste tank ... you are confused.

Bill
Click to expand...
HE THINKS HE IS A KNOW IT ALL AND HAS THE WANNABEES BAMBOOSELED
 
Quite: All that has happened is the creation of an Uber-Pixel and
the true number of pix/inch goes down ...

So many dots == so much data: you can have it as # shades or as resolution
and one can only trade the one for the other.
Click to expand...
You don't need to trade one for the other - the stochastic dither
process does that automatically as a function of the local image
content. Resolution where its needed and fine tone where its needed:
you can't see both at the same time, and the purpose of the dither
process is to print what you can see.
 
Arthur said:
Your 1270 probably just needs a good cleaning of the cleaning station.
The purge pump may be all gummed up as well. Cleaning the cleaning
station and ink wiper can make a improvement in the cleaning cycles
as well.
Click to expand...

Actually, there is no problem with my 1270. To the contrary, it has never
clogged in over 6 years, which is why I mentioned it in this thread.
Perhaps you missed that part...
:)
The problem is we pretty much all have a basement/closet/room filled
with lower high tech, and eventually it's all going to be tossed, but
where? Consumers, governments and manufacturers need to work together
of reducing and eliminating this spiral.
Click to expand...

California's lame answer to this was to start slapping people with disposal
taxes when they purchase monitors and the like. Stupid part is...they give
no indication of any particular mechanism this money creates for the actual
disposal!
That's new for ya... It may...or (more likely) may not...go to anything
related to it supposed reason for being imposed.
:(
It saddens me to see so much "valuable" stuff get dumped. The items
were leading edge at one point, and people paid big money to be "on
top" with this stuff. The amount of money I have spent on storage
media and devices and memory, all completely obsolete now, is
sickening... I try not to think about it!
Click to expand...

:)
It kills me too, except that I then remind myself of all I couldn't have
done without it at the time.
It's sort of like gasoline. You can look back at all the gas you've burned
over the years...having nothing to show for it...but the alternative would
have been going nowhere all those years. :)
Wasted money? Nah. Really just money spent to get where we're going...both
on the road, and on the computer.
:)
(But OK...on the other hand...it still is a little depressing!)
-Mark
 
Arthur said:
I agree that being able to remove the saturated waste ink pad unit has
some value, in fact, I advocated for this design in the consumer
models as well, since they obviously often get used well beyond one
"fill up".
I believe the pro models use a "chipped" waste ink unit, so you
basically have a similar situation as with the cartridges, you either
have to figure out a way to reset the chip, or buy a new unit from
Epson.
As to the size of the waste ink pads, you may need them that large,
especially if you have to change black ink types in that model. As
with all the wider carriage models that use ink tube delivery, when
you change the black ink type, the system purges the ink out of the
head, damper and tube. That in itself would be horrible, if it only
did that for the black head, but, at least with the other wide
carriage models, and I assume as well the 4000 model, all the ink
colors are purged at once due to the one purge pump and ganged
cleaning station. That's a LOT of ink going down the drain, so they
best have a good size waste ink holder.
Click to expand...

But I don't have to purge anything on the 4000. It holds all three blacks
at once.
It's the 4800 that has this issue, though for many, this has been solved
using a new remedy called "phatte black" along with a RIP system that
manages to apply inks on both types of media successfully.
There is something horribly ironic about having to pay nearly the cost
of the printer (in the consumer models) or for a chipped and
non-reusable waste ink container on the larger pro models) for a part
that 1) is capturing all that wasted costly ink you bought, and 2) in
part a result of design issues in the head, capping and ink
formulation cause this need to begin with.
Click to expand...

I don't know about cost on consumer models for the dump tank, but on the
4000, the cost of a replacement tank is barely over 2% the cost of the
printer.

-Mark
 
Kennedy McEwen said:
You don't need to trade one for the other
Click to expand...

And then:
Resolution where its needed and fine tone where its needed
Click to expand...

You mean like trading one for the other?

Whether the viewer cares or can notice, I don't care.
The trade has to be made.

We are coming at this from different angles:

Physicist: The elevator jerks, it has to or else
it can't accelerate from a standing start.
[Jerk = dA/dt, A = dV/dt, V = dX/dt]

Salesman: Our elevators don't jerk, the ride is
very smooth and you feel no jerk.

Let it rest.
 
Thanks for the correction Bill. I bow to your knowledge.

You may "when I get the facts wrong I'm willing to eat my words and I
got this wrong, so I apologize ...", but you will also note that no one
found it necessary to try to crucify you, or make disparaging comments
about your error. It was no big deal. We all mix up the model numbers
sometimes. Considering how many models their are, it's not a big surprise.

But you, in all your "wisdom" couldn't hold your typing fingers without
making a completely uncalled for, and statistically inaccurate statement
about me, could you?

My statement about the 4000 was incorrect, however, it is correct about
the 4800 which was what I had meant to type, and as I recall, the X600
series wide carriage, as well, which have 7 heads and cartridges. Epson
uses 8 cartridges in the 4000. They also use 8 in the 4800, 7800, 9800.
The 4000 uses CcMmYKKk, the two uppercase K's are for the photo black
and the matte black, as you state. In the 4800, one of the full blacks
is replaced with a second level of diluted black, to make a three
density black set. To accomplish that, it requires that only one full
black can be installed at any one time. So, the scenario I "painted" is
not true of the 4000, but is of numerous other Epson wide carriage
models. It is also why your waste ink container has a lower demand
placed on it.

Being "correct" is nice, but being a grown up is a WHOLE other thing,
and perhaps one day, you will actually get there.

Art
 
Arthur Entlich said:
cartridges. Epson uses 8 cartridges in the 4000. They also use 8 in
the 4800, 7800, 9800. The 4000 uses CcMmYKKk, the two uppercase K's
are for the photo black and the matte black, as you state....
Click to expand...

So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.
 
Mark² said:
Actually, there is no problem with my 1270. To the contrary, it has never
clogged in over 6 years, which is why I mentioned it in this thread.
Perhaps you missed that part...
:)
Click to expand...

No, I saw that part, but I am not convinced that is what is keeping the
head from clogging.
Interestingly, it remains
wet...NEVER drying--even after long periods on non-use. This means that
instead of "cleaning" the head, it simply wipes goo around and ONTO the
head. :) Perhaps this is partly what's helped my 1270 keep from clogging
over the years...because the head can't dry out/clog when it's parked in big
mess of wet goop!
Click to expand...

The cleaning station shouldn't be that gooped up. I'm surprised you
don't get some black streaks on the paper surface if it has any
variation in it. Your printer's waste ink pads may well be so saturated
that the ink has nowhere to flow to (not so much that it needs capillary
action or wicking, but that it needs a bit more distance to flow out of
the waste ink tube, and that distance has been reduced as the pads
become saturated.
California's lame answer to this was to start slapping people with disposal
taxes when they purchase monitors and the like. Stupid part is...they give
no indication of any particular mechanism this money creates for the actual
disposal!
That's new for ya... It may...or (more likely) may not...go to anything
related to it supposed reason for being imposed.
:(
Click to expand...

Alberta Canada has a similar law, but I believe the money is being
earmarked for take back, take apart and recycle programs. Up front
money isn't a bad idea, part of the cost of the product existing, is the
reduction of the product back into parts that aren't harmful to nature.

There certainly should be money earmarked to make sure the monies
collected are reinvented in recycling programs that work.
:)
It kills me too, except that I then remind myself of all I couldn't have
done without it at the time.
It's sort of like gasoline. You can look back at all the gas you've burned
over the years...having nothing to show for it...but the alternative would
have been going nowhere all those years. :)
Wasted money? Nah. Really just money spent to get where we're going...both
on the road, and on the computer.
:)
(But OK...on the other hand...it still is a little depressing!)
-Mark
Click to expand...

Sometimes when I think not just about the money, but the time I spent
learning to use the cumbersome software So and hardware, I'm not sure
I'm that far ahead. Newer users have products that have less steep
learning curves, so in some ways they may catch up with those who lived
through the dark years.

Art
 
Paul said:
So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.
Click to expand...

Convenience.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com>
 
Paul said:
So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.
Click to expand...

Convenience.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com>
 
IN TEXAS THEY HAVE DELL

Arthur said:
No, I saw that part, but I am not convinced that is what is keeping
the head from clogging.



The cleaning station shouldn't be that gooped up. I'm surprised you
don't get some black streaks on the paper surface if it has any
variation in it. Your printer's waste ink pads may well be so
saturated that the ink has nowhere to flow to (not so much that it
needs capillary action or wicking, but that it needs a bit more
distance to flow out of the waste ink tube, and that distance has been
reduced as the pads become saturated.


Alberta Canada has a similar law, but I believe the money is being
earmarked for take back, take apart and recycle programs. Up front
money isn't a bad idea, part of the cost of the product existing, is
the reduction of the product back into parts that aren't harmful to
nature.

There certainly should be money earmarked to make sure the monies
collected are reinvented in recycling programs that work.



Sometimes when I think not just about the money, but the time I spent
learning to use the cumbersome software So and hardware, I'm not sure
I'm that far ahead. Newer users have products that have less steep
learning curves, so in some ways they may catch up with those who
lived through the dark years.

Art
Click to expand...
 
I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT WALGREEN, COSTCO ETC PRINTS A LIGHTER WEIGHT AND
TEND TO CURL. THAT IS NOT THE CASE WHEN USING A HIGH QUALITY
COSTCO/KIRKLAND, EPSON OR CANON PHOTO PAPER PRO MEDIA.
 
measekite said:
I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT WALGREEN, COSTCO ETC PRINTS A LIGHTER WEIGHT AND
TEND TO CURL. THAT IS NOT THE CASE WHEN USING A HIGH QUALITY
COSTCO/KIRKLAND, EPSON OR CANON PHOTO PAPER PRO MEDIA.
Click to expand...

Stop yelling and cross posting <Thanks>
 
Arthur Entlich whines ...
Thanks for the correction Bill. I bow to your knowledge. ...
But you, in all your "wisdom" couldn't hold your typing fingers
without making a completely uncalled for, and statistically
inaccurate statement about me, could you?
Click to expand...

No I couldn't, because for about five years I've thought you were one
of the most annoying clueless jackasses on the newsgroups Arthur. You
seem to have it in for companies that are market leaders and drone on
endlessly about all the things they are doing wrong while you've never
actually accomplished anything yourself, whether it's Epson printers or
Nikon scanners (how's that Polaroid Sprintscan doing for you, now that
they went belly up?). I just ignore your endless opiniated replies but
when you get your facts wrong I'll feel free to jump in, whether you
like it or not.

And it's not just me who feels that way, another person in this thread
once told me he found you so replusive that he would sometimes abandon
a group when you entered. Why is that?

Bill
 
So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.
Click to expand...


Just for the satisfaction of doing it yourself, maybe.

I honestly don't think, in a fair test, you could tell
which print came off the Frontier and which came
off an Epson R800.

In the end, it may well be cheaper to have the
print done in a lab, if you consider the cost of
ink, paper, and amortization of the printer.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com
 
measekite said:
YOU ALSO GET A DRAMATIC BOOST IN END RESULT BECAUSE YOU CAN SPEND THE
TIME TO EDIT THE PHOTO.
Click to expand...


HEY < YOUR KEYBOARD IS BROKEN . . . THE CAPLOCKS KEY IS STUCK!

Anyway, if your photos suck so bad that you think you can PhotoShop them
into submission, then maybe you should re-think doing photography.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com>
 
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