T
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
John said:They never used .Net. Don't fall for the asj spin.
In the CHOICE between going for .Net and going for J2EE they chose the
latter - this can be seen as "ditching" .Net.
John said:They never used .Net. Don't fall for the asj spin.
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen said:In the CHOICE between going for .Net and going for J2EE they chose the
latter - this can be seen as "ditching" .Net.
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen said:In the CHOICE between going for .Net and going for J2EE they chose the
latter - this can be seen as "ditching" .Net.
T. Max Devlin said:In comp.os.linux.advocacy, I heard Erik Funkenbusch say:
Perhaps it was a development project rather than their production systems that
was switched?
Ah, yes. Quite like Microsoft trying several times and failing to change
hotmail over to Windows. Which you like to insist never happened, since they
never *really* tried, since every time they planned to do so they realized
before spending those millions that it would fail because Windows simply isn't
good enough.
They switched their plans. The question is why; the answer is because .NET is
just more monopoly crapware.
John said:"eBay decided to switch from a Microsoft/.NET/Windows architecture on the
backend to a J2EE one" - asj
Grant said:So, you can make all the outrageous claims you want about why eBay made the
decision they made, but it's all speculation, because eBay isn't saying why, and
they're the only ones who actually /know/.
eBay had been implementing a lot of the parts of .net, including passport
when this happened. they also had been heavily into windows, which is why
ballmer had been so angry when this happened. then i believe IBM's
websphere beat out both microsoft and sun after a series of tests eBay
did.
it sure screwed microsoft though, since eBay was trumpeted very VERY
loudly as the biggest backer of microsoft's .net...
there are of course, other notable examples of companies switching to j2ee
AFTER using .NET extensively, one recent example i pointed out was Cerner:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/06/HNibmcerner2_1.html
Ebay has never run on .NET. I don't know where you get this information.
Ebay had originally planned to move to .NET back in early 2001, but ended
up not doing so after a bidding war with Sun and IBM.
You can read what happened here:
http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,3959,659060,00.asp
As such, Ebay never "switched" from anything Microsoft.
Grant Wagner said:It's N-tier architecture:
<url: http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,3959,659060,00.asp />
"EBay will use J2EE to transfer some of this workload to a third tier of
servers, running software from IBM. With this new setup, one set of servers
at the front will present information to auction participants, a second set
in the middle will execute the business logic of the auctions (for example,
"don't bid on an item over $100"); and, a third set at the back end will
continue to handle access to Oracle databases."
asj said:i think they did say something:
to quote: "eBay's evaluation of Microsoft's .NET initiative concluded
that, at the time, it was not ready to meet its needs.....But, as we dug
into the different issues, we reached the realization that we needed a
more OPEN ARCHITECTURE accompanied with overarching process changes.
This paradigm was integral to our decision to go with Java technology."
so, after all the press and hoopla surrounding the adoption of .net by
eBay, it turns out J2EE met their needs much better.
why wouldn't it?
it's MORE OPEN, it's SUPPORTED BY MANY VENDORS AND OPEN SOURCE
ORGANIZATIONS, it's NOT GOING TO BE CHURNED IN 4-5 YEARS, and it's
MULTI-PLATFORM - as in, you can use linux, solaris, mac, windows, or
whatever and not just security-challenged microsoft windows for it.
awhile back, eBay decided to switch from a Microsoft/.NET/Windows
architecture on the backend to a J2EE one, which might explain why their
java backend will handle up to 1 BILLION page views a day! the funny
thing was eBay was one of the major case studies for .NET at the
beginning, when there was still some hype about it.
interesting post about a few java case studies:
http://weblogs.java.net/pub/wlg/268
"I love looking through case studies. They can teach you so much about
what to do, what not to do, what is in vogue, etc. All those useful
design patterns came from analyzing lots of case studies and seeing what
worked; and sometimes, more importantly, what didn't work."
"So this year I decided to start listing case studies when I find them.
And a great place to start is JavaOne, where lots of the really big case
studies get presented. So here they are. The highlights for me: eBay
architected for 1 billion page views a day; The Brazilian National
Health handling 100 million outpatient procedues a month; 24 million
Java Cards used by Taiwan Health Insurance; Capital One Financial
handling 80 million transactions each month."
asj said:however, eBay still DUMPED .net in favor of J2EE, and this made ballmer
even crazier since eBay was already heavily into windows on the front
end and was implementing .NET's Passport (aka, "give your ultimate
password to us and we'll take good care of it - Windows
Security"...bwahahahaha) at the time....in addition, it made microsoft
eat its own words since eBay was HEAVILY trumpeted as the premier win
for .NET....
1 BILLION page-views...wow.
since so many of our resident wintrolls decided to open their mouths
without thinking, let's do a nice recap below:
asj said:here's the current status on it, dated April 2003:
"EBAY V3 ROLLOUT STATUS" (dated April 2003)
http://www.sun.com/service/about/success/recent/ebay_5.html
Phase One-Design Concepts
Starting in December, 2000, Phase One demonstrated the viability of the
proposed architecture design, ranging from the need for individual
services' tiers, to security requirements, to proposed development
frameworks. According to Geiger, "The approach was to select a small
piece of the site's infrastructure for migration to the V3 architecture,
with the ability to quickly revert to the V2 version in case of any
problems. The plan was to learn from design patterns-those that
worked-for development efficiency. The development plan was designed in
mind all of the way down to those managing the operations, with the goal
of sorting through all of the issues at one time, thereby allowing us to
resolve potential issues before other applications were brought into
production."
Phase One release of the J2EE technology-based architecture was
completed in December, 2001.
Phase Two-Proof of Concepts and Initial Deployments
Phase Two, with Phase One complete and the architecture solidified, was
intended, as Geiger explains, "to prove scalability by selecting one of
the most heavily trafficked areas of the site." That section is what
eBay defines as the "View Item" area, which accounts for about 65
percent of all site traffic. Although the functionality itself is fairly
simple, the high traffic and transaction volume of the area was chosen
to demonstrate that the new architecture would scale. Complete migration
of "View Item" to the new architecture was achieved in June, 2002.
With this migration, close to 75 percent of the eBay traffic is now
being handled by the new architecture-which translates to over
400-million transactions per day.
Phase Three-Wide-Scale Migration
The final phase, Phase Three, which was initiated in July, 2002, will be
to migrate eBay's entire infrastructure to the new architecture. Geiger
explains, "Phase Three is effectively bringing the J2EE
[technology-based] architecture to the masses, the general development
population."
In addition to moving its existing infrastructure to the new
architecture, all new business requests will be built on the V3
architecture. "Working with Sun Services' training specialists, we
developed a sequential, targeted training and development program," says
Geiger. That development plan includes certification in Java technology.
"With our development team now adequately trained in Java [technology]
and development best practices in place, we can begin designing and
implementing new business requests within this new architectural
framework." Geiger acknowledges that the completion of this change will
take time. "Now that we have proven it, we plan to have most areas of
our application infrastructure for all of the site migrated to the new
architecture by middle of 2004."
John said:Wasn't Sun responsible for major eBay outages? Some people never learn.
Besides, 74% out of these 75% are handled by Microsoft web-servers
on frontend and Oracle database on backend.