DVD / DVD+R /DVD-R / DVDRW. Are they all really distinct media formats?

[M.I.5¾]

Interesting. So if this is really true, then I expect the DVD+RW has
replaced the DVD-RWs in the stores by now, but I never use them, so I
don't know.

Well, in theory it might have done, but there are two reasons (at least) why
it hasn't. First, most users are unaware of the differences behind the
technology. Most regard it as a VHS/Betamax thing, which it isn't really
because each's drive can generally play the other (not the case for VHS and
Betamax). Second, the rule of thumb that you should record video to '-'
discs and 'data to '+' discs still abounds*. Many people will give you this
advice, but they often don't actually know why (Shop assistants in
particular are good at this). It is something that someone has told them
and they repeat it authoritatively.

* At least one disc manufacturer marks the '-' discs 'for Video recording'
and the '+' discs 'for Data recording'.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Maybe there "shouldn't be", but there is.

I am. (One or two of the older ones I still have).

As I said before, the difference in the technology relates purely in the
way
the disc is written. It is related to providing the write laser the
ability
to accurately position burns subsequent to the first burn. Once the disc
is
written, as far as reading the disc is concerned there is absolutely no
difference between them.

Then why can't my older DVD player read mine? (I mean when I tried outa few
DVD+R discs that I made, but worked perfectly fine when I used the DVD-R
discs)? The DVD writer was compatible for both formats.

Anyways, that's what happened. (Again, I'm NOT talking about RW discs
which I have never used, nor intend to). Perhaps it is possible that my
DVD writer can't write the +Rs as well as the -Rs, but I seriously doubt it,
since it's spec'd for both.

Again as I said before, this recommendation arose because quite a number
of
video DVD players wouldn't read DVD+RW discs (the DVD+R didn't exist at
this
point).

(But it certainly did at the point for the article I'm talking about. More
below).

Thus the story quickly spread that the '+' format wasn't fully
compatible with all DVD players.

And actually, it isn't. Again, I have witnessed that first hand over here,
as I've repeatedly stated. (I'm not talking about the players on the
computer, I'm talking about some older home audio DVD player). But I do
find it interesting that you have never had a compatibility problem with the
DVD+Rs, however.

<snip>

 

[M.I.5¾]

Maybe there "shouldn't be", but there is.


I am. (One or two of the older ones I still have).

Why don't you identify these mystery machines?

Then why can't my older DVD player read mine? (I mean when I tried outa
few DVD+R discs that I made, but worked perfectly fine when I used the
DVD-R discs)? The DVD writer was compatible for both formats.

Anyways, that's what happened. (Again, I'm NOT talking about RW discs
which I have never used, nor intend to). Perhaps it is possible that my
DVD writer can't write the +Rs as well as the -Rs, but I seriously doubt
it, since it's spec'd for both.


(But it certainly did at the point for the article I'm talking about.
More below).


And actually, it isn't. Again, I have witnessed that first hand over
here, as I've repeatedly stated. (I'm not talking about the players on
the computer, I'm talking about some older home audio DVD player). But
I do find it interesting that you have never had a compatibility problem
with the DVD+Rs, however.

Name the player and I will look it up.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Why don't you identify these mystery machines?

Well, one that comes to mind is my JVC HR-XVC1U unit. (It's an older
DVD (and CD) and VHS combo player deck)

Name the player and I will look it up.

JVC HR-XVC1U (mentioned above)

 

[M.I.5¾]

JVC HR-XVC1U (mentioned above)

Comes up as:

Compatible with DVD-R

Compatible with DVD-RW

Partially compatible with DVD-R9 (Plays layer 0 only)

Compatible with DVD+R.

Not compatible with DVD+RW.

Not compatible with DVD+R9.

No information on RW9 discs but unlikely to be compatible.

The DVD mechanism of this machine is made by Toshiba. Apparently it is a
DVD/VHS combo unit and the VHS mechanism is made by JVC themselves.

DVD+RW discs can be made to play by changing the Compatibility ID byte from
'2' to '0' - there are numerous utilities that do this. It is necessary to
change it back before erasing and reusing the disc.

It is possible that the particular brand of blank DVD+R discs that you used
may not have had a good image made when recorded in your burner. You could
try burning it at a lower speed (this often works). Alternatively, try a
different brand - they are not all as equal as they should be.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Comes up as:

Compatible with DVD-R

Compatible with DVD-RW

Partially compatible with DVD-R9 (Plays layer 0 only)

Compatible with DVD+R.

Allegedly, anyways. More below.

Not compatible with DVD+RW.

Not compatible with DVD+R9.

No information on RW9 discs but unlikely to be compatible.

The DVD mechanism of this machine is made by Toshiba. Apparently it is a
DVD/VHS combo unit and the VHS mechanism is made by JVC themselves.
Interesting.

DVD+RW discs can be made to play by changing the Compatibility ID byte
from
'2' to '0' - there are numerous utilities that do this. It is necessary
to
change it back before erasing and reusing the disc.

It is possible that the particular brand of blank DVD+R discs that you
used
may not have had a good image made when recorded in your burner.

It happened on more than one occasion. In fact, none of the few DVD+R's
that I tried ever worked on my deck. But more on that below.

You could
try burning it at a lower speed (this often works). Alternatively, try a
different brand - they are not all as equal as they should be.

When I did the experiments, I'm pretty sure I was using the same brand of
DVD discs for both (Memorex, IIRC).

I didn't try using a slower than "normal" speed, but then again, the speed
was pretty slow, anyways, since my DVD/CD burner was a bit older (Memorex
True 8X, and rated at that for both +R and -R formats). But the Memorex
DVD discs were also rated at 8X (this was some time ago, when that was
common).

But thanks for the info and looking it up.

 

[Edric]

Comes up as:

Compatible with DVD-R

Compatible with DVD-RW

Partially compatible with DVD-R9 (Plays layer 0 only)

Compatible with DVD+R.

Not compatible with DVD+RW.

Not compatible with DVD+R9.

No information on RW9 discs but unlikely to be compatible.

The DVD mechanism of this machine is made by Toshiba. Apparently it is a
DVD/VHS combo unit and the VHS mechanism is made by JVC themselves.

DVD+RW discs can be made to play by changing the Compatibility ID byte from
'2' to '0' - there are numerous utilities that do this. It is necessary to
change it back before erasing and reusing the disc.

It is possible that the particular brand of blank DVD+R discs that you used
may not have had a good image made when recorded in your burner. You could
try burning it at a lower speed (this often works). Alternatively, try a
different brand - they are not all as equal as they should be.

So has spoken they hypocrite

 

[chrisrushlau]

If I can jump in that mention of -RW not reading as precisely as +RW: My
Samsung R100 seems to be wearing out after three years, early on used with
lots of dusty disks: it rejects many once-used disks (-RW) as unreadable.
This is progressing, from rarely to occasionally (randomly) to now where
anything but a fresh disk is unreadable. I assume the hardware mechanism
that positions the read-write head gets confused/lost as it navigates the
disk: it wobbles too much or diffracts the signal too much to read it
accurately.

 

[Walter Wall]

Allegedly, anyways. More below.


It happened on more than one occasion. In fact, none of the few
DVD+R's that I tried ever worked on my deck. But more on that below.


When I did the experiments, I'm pretty sure I was using the same brand of
DVD discs for both (Memorex, IIRC).

I didn't try using a slower than "normal" speed, but then again, the speed
was pretty slow, anyways, since my DVD/CD burner was a bit older (Memorex
True 8X, and rated at that for both +R and -R formats). But the Memorex
DVD discs were also rated at 8X (this was some time ago, when that was
common).

But thanks for the info and looking it up.

There are no issues with Memorex blanks that I am aware of.

It might be worth your while trying a burn at 2.4x.

 

[Walter Wall]

If I can jump in that mention of -RW not reading as precisely as +RW: My
Samsung R100 seems to be wearing out after three years, early on used with
lots of dusty disks: it rejects many once-used disks (-RW) as unreadable.
This is progressing, from rarely to occasionally (randomly) to now where
anything but a fresh disk is unreadable. I assume the hardware mechanism
that positions the read-write head gets confused/lost as it navigates the
disk: it wobbles too much or diffracts the signal too much to read it
accurately.

It is not the mechanics that is the problem. Unfortunately, solid state
lasers have a limited life. And the lasers used in CD/DVD drives seem to
have a shorter life than they really ought to do. Three years is about
average for a laser life (and they usually last long enough to survive the 1
year warranty - just). In your drive, the laser has weakened to the point
where it is barely reading the image on the disc.

 

[M.I.5¾]

Allegedly, anyways. More below.


It happened on more than one occasion. In fact, none of the few
DVD+R's that I tried ever worked on my deck. But more on that below.


When I did the experiments, I'm pretty sure I was using the same brand of
DVD discs for both (Memorex, IIRC).

I didn't try using a slower than "normal" speed, but then again, the speed
was pretty slow, anyways, since my DVD/CD burner was a bit older (Memorex
True 8X, and rated at that for both +R and -R formats). But the Memorex
DVD discs were also rated at 8X (this was some time ago, when that was
common).

But thanks for the info and looking it up.

Try a lower burn speed. If 4x doesn't work then try 2x (might be 2.4x on
your burner (don't ask)). It is also possible that the laser on your video
player is dying as it is not a particularly recent model (they have a very
limited life).

 

[chrisrushlau]

Thank you, Walter. My lesson here is I had a week of anxiety about my DVD
recorder ("Is Samsung the worst in the industry?" was one Google hit that
fueled my anxieties), found some information (mostly this MS community
discussion), you responded to my precise query (off the track of this
discussion), and I'm back on dry land, as it were, or back breathing the free
air of the city, where people look out for each other.

 

[Jack Patteeuw]

I'm always confused by DVD terminology when buying media to write on.
There's DVD / DVD+R / DVD-R / DVDRW and I'm not even sure which more!

Wikipedia is your friend ! You'll find more there than you'll probably
want to know, and links to even more.

In general DVD+R is "more robust" than DVD-R. It's worth the few extra
pennies per disk.

The age of your equipment for writing and playing back **does** matter.
Some older DVD players have problems with some brands of blanks. Buy
a small quantity of blanks and try them on all of your burners and
players is the only sure bet.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Wikipedia is your friend ! You'll find more there than you'll probably
want to know, and links to even more.

In general DVD+R is "more robust" than DVD-R. It's worth the few extra
pennies per disk.

Might depend on how you define "robust", so I'm not so sure about that.
Cites?

The age of your equipment for writing and playing back **does** matter.
Some older DVD players have problems with some brands of blanks.

Yup. And I've found the older DVD-R to be a bit more compatible, in my
albeit limited tests.

Buy a small quantity of blanks and try them on all of your burners and
players is the only sure bet.

True enough.