J
John Barnes
It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
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B
bronskimac
Here is a real scenario (me the last few weeks).
1. I got the CPP Beta 2 when it came out and loved it but my graphics
card would not run Aero.
2. upgraded graphics card to ATI Radeon 9550 loved Vista even more.
3. My monitor died so switched to an old one.
4. The old monitor display is quite dark even with the brightness fully
turned up. No problem, just adjust the gamma in the graphics card
control panel ... fine until Vista does one of its "switch to basic mode
for compatibility" or the UAC control pops up, then the gamma change is
lost and I am back with a dark screen.
The only solution I have found is switching to basic Vista in the themes
and switching off UAC (yes I know switching off UAC is a bad idea).
So I am stuck with Vista Basic until I can save my pennies and buy a new
monitor.
I know this is an unusual scenario but since it is real I thought I
would post it.
on a side note, the CPP beta was very good for me, only a few permission
problems with some programs that were solved by installing on my D:
drive. The pre-RC1 build has solved those troubles and once I figure out
how the hell to use the search facility Vista will be my favourite OS.
Chris Gibson
1. I got the CPP Beta 2 when it came out and loved it but my graphics
card would not run Aero.
2. upgraded graphics card to ATI Radeon 9550 loved Vista even more.
3. My monitor died so switched to an old one.
4. The old monitor display is quite dark even with the brightness fully
turned up. No problem, just adjust the gamma in the graphics card
control panel ... fine until Vista does one of its "switch to basic mode
for compatibility" or the UAC control pops up, then the gamma change is
lost and I am back with a dark screen.
The only solution I have found is switching to basic Vista in the themes
and switching off UAC (yes I know switching off UAC is a bad idea).
So I am stuck with Vista Basic until I can save my pennies and buy a new
monitor.
I know this is an unusual scenario but since it is real I thought I
would post it.
on a side note, the CPP beta was very good for me, only a few permission
problems with some programs that were solved by installing on my D:
drive. The pre-RC1 build has solved those troubles and once I figure out
how the hell to use the search facility Vista will be my favourite OS.
Chris Gibson
L
Little Brother
Yes.
Right now over on windowsxp.general there's just such a thing going on.
Someone had Windows XP Pro preinstalled and wants to move to Windows XP
Home via an "upgrade" rather than a "clean install". THE path is not there.
The reason is that 3rd party tech support only supports "Home". I know it
sounds optimistic, but someday Microsoft might make these systems modular
enough that one could conceivably traverse the whole range of the code base.
On a similar but different note: Upgrades from Microsoft usually have an
"uninstall" feature though, don't they? If one "upgraded" from Windows 98 SE
to Windows XP Home, the system stored the old 98 files away and so long as
the system drive wasn't converted to NTFS and the files were not deleted,
they could "roll back".
Does Vista upgrade have a "roll back" or is it a one way deal?
Thanks
Right now over on windowsxp.general there's just such a thing going on.
Someone had Windows XP Pro preinstalled and wants to move to Windows XP
Home via an "upgrade" rather than a "clean install". THE path is not there.
The reason is that 3rd party tech support only supports "Home". I know it
sounds optimistic, but someday Microsoft might make these systems modular
enough that one could conceivably traverse the whole range of the code base.
On a similar but different note: Upgrades from Microsoft usually have an
"uninstall" feature though, don't they? If one "upgraded" from Windows 98 SE
to Windows XP Home, the system stored the old 98 files away and so long as
the system drive wasn't converted to NTFS and the files were not deleted,
they could "roll back".
Does Vista upgrade have a "roll back" or is it a one way deal?
Thanks
J
John Barnes
Microsoft supports both (home and pro), but supports neither if it is
installed by an OEM, in which case the support comes from the manufacturer.
installed by an OEM, in which case the support comes from the manufacturer.
M
Mark D. VandenBerg
Little Brother said:On a similar but different note: Upgrades from Microsoft usually have an
"uninstall" feature though, don't they? If one "upgraded" from Windows 98
SE to Windows XP Home, the system stored the old 98 files away and so long
as the system drive wasn't converted to NTFS and the files were not
deleted, they could "roll back".
Does Vista upgrade have a "roll back" or is it a one way deal?
Thanks
The way I understand it:
All installations of Vista are "clean installs." If you choose "Upgrade"
Vista does a clean install and then installs the third party programs and
your existing documents, and then stores the entire, previous operating
system in a folder called "Windows Old (or something)." There is no
roll-back from Vista to a previous operating system, as of yet, since Vista
is not modifying a previous operating system. Also, System Restore will not
revert the computer to a previous operating system.
So yes, it's a "one way deal" if upgrading to Vista in its present state.
C
Colin Barnhorst
Microsoft is indeed recommending it for Vista. Since any type of
installation of Vista is a clean installation of Windows now, the old wisdom
is moot. That is why Setup uses "Custom" and "Upgrade" instead of the old
"Clean Install" and "Upgrade." The difference is that in the upgrade
process your files and programs are moved to another part of the disk out of
the way and then Setup does a fresh installation of Windows followed by a
reinstallation of your files and programs. The ability of Vista to
reinstall your programs makes this possible. Earlier versions of Windows
could not do it. The new WIM file format has changed just about everything.
installation of Vista is a clean installation of Windows now, the old wisdom
is moot. That is why Setup uses "Custom" and "Upgrade" instead of the old
"Clean Install" and "Upgrade." The difference is that in the upgrade
process your files and programs are moved to another part of the disk out of
the way and then Setup does a fresh installation of Windows followed by a
reinstallation of your files and programs. The ability of Vista to
reinstall your programs makes this possible. Earlier versions of Windows
could not do it. The new WIM file format has changed just about everything.
C
Colin Barnhorst
Of course, but that is not the point. It is not about whether to do a clean
installation but how much you have to pay for it. The XP Home Upgrade
edition installer would not launch from a Windows 2000 Pro desktop and in
fact XP Home was listed in the matrix for XP as not being an upgrade for Win
2000. XP Pro was required. And yet the XP Home Upgrade edition installer
would accept the Win 2000 Pro cd as qualifying for the upgrade price for XP
Home. The concern folks are having is not whether they will have to do a
clean installation but whether they can get by with buying the Upgrade
edition of Vista instead of the more expensive full edition if they have
versions of Windows prior to XP. I'm saying that we have not seen a beta
upgrade edition of Vista that can answer THAT question because all we have
had access to is the full editions.
installation but how much you have to pay for it. The XP Home Upgrade
edition installer would not launch from a Windows 2000 Pro desktop and in
fact XP Home was listed in the matrix for XP as not being an upgrade for Win
2000. XP Pro was required. And yet the XP Home Upgrade edition installer
would accept the Win 2000 Pro cd as qualifying for the upgrade price for XP
Home. The concern folks are having is not whether they will have to do a
clean installation but whether they can get by with buying the Upgrade
edition of Vista instead of the more expensive full edition if they have
versions of Windows prior to XP. I'm saying that we have not seen a beta
upgrade edition of Vista that can answer THAT question because all we have
had access to is the full editions.
C
Colin Barnhorst
His question isn't about clean installations. His question is about whether
his Win98 cd will be accepted by the Vista Upgrade installer as proof of
ownership of a previous version of Windows at the point in the installation
where Setup wants to verify his eligibility to take advantage of upgrade
pricing.
his Win98 cd will be accepted by the Vista Upgrade installer as proof of
ownership of a previous version of Windows at the point in the installation
where Setup wants to verify his eligibility to take advantage of upgrade
pricing.
C
Colin Barnhorst
It usually comes up in volume licensing when it comes up at all.
C
Colin Barnhorst
No, they don't. There is no rollback in the NT branch of Windows. That is
just an anachronism from Win9x. Your example is not a good one. Mark is
correct. You will not be able to move between Home Basic or Home Premium
and Business (going either way). The two branches only meet at Ultimate.
The example might be better if it were cast as going back from Ultimate to
Home.
just an anachronism from Win9x. Your example is not a good one. Mark is
correct. You will not be able to move between Home Basic or Home Premium
and Business (going either way). The two branches only meet at Ultimate.
The example might be better if it were cast as going back from Ultimate to
Home.
D
David Wilkinson
Colin said:Of course, but that is not the point. It is not about whether to do a clean
installation but how much you have to pay for it. The XP Home Upgrade
edition installer would not launch from a Windows 2000 Pro desktop and in
fact XP Home was listed in the matrix for XP as not being an upgrade for Win
2000. XP Pro was required. And yet the XP Home Upgrade edition installer
would accept the Win 2000 Pro cd as qualifying for the upgrade price for XP
Home. The concern folks are having is not whether they will have to do a
clean installation but whether they can get by with buying the Upgrade
edition of Vista instead of the more expensive full edition if they have
versions of Windows prior to XP. I'm saying that we have not seen a beta
upgrade edition of Vista that can answer THAT question because all we have
had access to is the full editions.
Colin:
Yes, being able to purchase an upgrade edition is an orthogonal concept
to whether you can convert your existing installation.
David Wilkinson
D
David Wilkinson
[snip]John said:It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
I myself would never do any kind of "conversion install". But a lot of
people do, and they will want to do it from Vista-beta to Vista-release.
So the question remains; if you used Ultimate in the beta (as all the
CPP folks did, as well as many others) can you only convert to the
release version of Vista Ultimate? It seems the answer is probably yes,
which is going to upset a lot of people.
David Wilkinson
C
Colin Barnhorst
As I understand it the upgrade option will be greyed out if you, for
example, are installing Home on a partition that already has Ultimate. TB
ran through some testing scenarios with Home Basic, Home Premium, and
Business and I think upgrades from each to Ultimate was supported (by dvd
install as well as Anytime Upgrade testing) but going the other way was
never an available option.
example, are installing Home on a partition that already has Ultimate. TB
ran through some testing scenarios with Home Basic, Home Premium, and
Business and I think upgrades from each to Ultimate was supported (by dvd
install as well as Anytime Upgrade testing) but going the other way was
never an available option.
David Wilkinson said:[snip]John said:It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
I myself would never do any kind of "conversion install". But a lot of
people do, and they will want to do it from Vista-beta to Vista-release.
So the question remains; if you used Ultimate in the beta (as all the CPP
folks did, as well as many others) can you only convert to the release
version of Vista Ultimate? It seems the answer is probably yes, which is
going to upset a lot of people.
David Wilkinson
C
Colin Barnhorst
But the issue isn't converting an existing installation. The scenario is a
computer with no operating system, a Vista Upgrade edition dvd, and a Win98
cd. The question is, will the Vista Upgrade edition Setup verify the Win98
cd as a previous edition of Windows that meets the requirements when the
Upgrade Setup asks for media during the clean installation of Vista? In
other words, can the OP use his Win98 cd to qualify for the Vista Upgrade
price? I have yet to get my hands on a Vista Upgrade edition beta to answer
that definitively.
computer with no operating system, a Vista Upgrade edition dvd, and a Win98
cd. The question is, will the Vista Upgrade edition Setup verify the Win98
cd as a previous edition of Windows that meets the requirements when the
Upgrade Setup asks for media during the clean installation of Vista? In
other words, can the OP use his Win98 cd to qualify for the Vista Upgrade
price? I have yet to get my hands on a Vista Upgrade edition beta to answer
that definitively.
W
William
I never install one OS on top of another OS. I have always preferred a good clean install.
William
It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
William
It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
C
Colin Barnhorst
All Vista installs are clean installs of the OS. Upgrade does not mean the same thing that you are used to. In the upgrade scenario Setup moves all files and programs with their installation data to another part of the hard drive. It then lays down the Vista image, installs Vista, copies your files back and reinstalls your programs. It is a very different methodology from ealiers versions of Windows and there are no remnants of the old OS to foul things up.
I never install one OS on top of another OS. I have always preferred a good clean install.
William
It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
I never install one OS on top of another OS. I have always preferred a good clean install.
William
It is NEVER recommended to go from a beta or RC1 to a released system.
W
Will Schuitman
Thank you very for your input on this
Although in my opinion If I was looking at upgrading or downgrading
personally I would always opt to backup my data and format the drive and do
a clean install I guess it's better that way for me at least. Then I know if
all goes well everything will work as intended. In the case of doing an
upgrade over a previously installed OS more often than not. There will be
isssues with drivers and minor registry issues some of which can at times
take quite a while to figure out and in a worst case senario things can go
horribly wrong.
But there will always be people out there that always upgrade over a
previously install OS
some of which will have good results and others will have a lot of trouble
Although in my opinion If I was looking at upgrading or downgrading
personally I would always opt to backup my data and format the drive and do
a clean install I guess it's better that way for me at least. Then I know if
all goes well everything will work as intended. In the case of doing an
upgrade over a previously installed OS more often than not. There will be
isssues with drivers and minor registry issues some of which can at times
take quite a while to figure out and in a worst case senario things can go
horribly wrong.
But there will always be people out there that always upgrade over a
previously install OS
some of which will have good results and others will have a lot of trouble
R
Ray
Colin, what would happen with the registry, we all know how it becomes
.... ahem, oversized with time. Is the registry kept as is, or can it be
rebuilt somehow with a new install.
Or, is it now handled within Vista in a more efficient manner?
Ray
.... ahem, oversized with time. Is the registry kept as is, or can it be
rebuilt somehow with a new install.
Or, is it now handled within Vista in a more efficient manner?
Ray
C
Colin Barnhorst
The registry is strictly Vista. The files and programs reinstalled are
registered as usual during the last phase of setup before the final
configuration is doen. It is not the XP registry being updated.
registered as usual during the last phase of setup before the final
configuration is doen. It is not the XP registry being updated.
C
Colin Barnhorst
Don't be afraid of upgrading with Vista. Upgrading is quite different than
it was with XP and before.
it was with XP and before.