Does MS even care?

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I don't believe their profits are in jeopardy.

Well, not yet. They keep on their present path-
and that could easily change.


-Michael
 
Thanks, but I allready checked that one.
The manufactorer couldn't guarentee that it would work on vista, and
apparently it can't handle the number of axis and buttons.

But I appreciate the effort. ;)
 
There seems to be little realization that it is big corporate like IBM who
raise the Linux game by investing huge amounts into Linux that will
ultimately increase their profit margins.. of course, IBM aren't the bad
boys anymore.. Bill G and MS are the 'in' targets..

The guy behind Ubuntu does it as a hobby, but he is a multi-millionaire
entrepreneur, slapping up other parts of commerce and industry for money on
a daily basis.. is he a target? Oh no, because he makes no big personal
Ubuntu appearance in the software world. He has far bigger fish to fry..

Had it not been for the big corporations like MS, IBM and Intel, we would
all still be using Atari, Amiga, Eagles, Commodores, Acorns, Spectrums,
Dragons, Tandy TRS and the mass of other computers around at one time, none
of them compatible with each other, all of them struggling with development
costs..

IBM, MS and Intel made the standards what they are today, and all became big
enough to maintain the standards.. without them, few of us would be here
today.. take any or all of them out of the equation and the personal
computer as we know it today would die a slow and agonizing death, and what
would be left would be sheer chaos..

So it is still such a good idea to see the Big Three go down? fortunately,
there are enough decent people out there who do not see fit to defraud..

Richard Urban said:
People who think that a company has no right, or responsibility, to
protect their profits is the idiot.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User
Click to expand...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
a couple of additional comments in line below

--
Mike Brannigan

omron said:
Thank you for answering.

Then why are there so many post all over the net complaining about how it
hurts their eyes and so on.
I'm not complaining about the layout and usefulness of the ui, but the
poor
choice of color. The least MS could have done, was to include a couple of
different colorschemes, so people could choose for them selves. They did
it
with XP...


It's not a lack of USB ports. It's the fact that someone I don't even
know,
suddenly decided that I didn't need my controllers anymore.
How hard can it be, to keep support for the gameport? Just leave the old
XP
driver in there. They even disabled the device completely, so know one
else
can make a driver for it.
And what about people using MIDI? They have the exact same problem.
I think it's just pure arrogance to make a compatability breaking decision
like that.
The switch from gameport to usb will come all by itself, as it's not even
possible to buy a joystick for the gameport anymore. They didn't need to
force it upon us.
This is **the** main issue I have with Vista at the moment, and it means a
lot to me, and probably many others, I'm sure.
The controllers I have were very expensive, so I really don't feel like
throwing them out, because some billionaire thinks so.


I don't blame them for making the protection available, but if I can stick
my DVD in my regular DVD player and watch it, why shouldn't I be able to
stick in my PC, and see it on me TV, using the Media Center? Just because
my
TV "only" has DVI input, which doesn't support the protection?
Click to expand...

Again unfortunately - this is what the content provides want and not
something Microsoft is doing to you.
Fair enough, disabling the ability to record/copy it somehow, but
disabling
output to the devices is just too intruding.
Click to expand...

There is more to this then what I think you may have read in some recent web
articles as you mention below.
It is not usually that intrusive, but again the content providers choose how
far they want the protection to go.
Granted, I have no experince of how intruding this actually is. I just
read
an article and were shocked. It appears that MS tries to control our pc's
too
much. Where's the freedom?
Again, it's only hurting the legal users of a product. Pirates will find a
way.



But is the "casual piracy" a bigger problem than commercial piracy.
Click to expand...

No they are both big issues - and both have an impact on revenue.
So what, if some family installs it on their desktop AND their laptop?
Click to expand...

Then they are not paying for what they use, that is piracy pure and simple
and when it is not one family but millions you can see how the casual piracy
number add up to significant lost revenue. Maybe you should think about the
job you have and ask your self if it is fair that someone asks you to do one
thing then tells you to do 2 more just because you are there and they are
not going to pay you for it. (there are any number of analogies that can be
used, but it comes down to paying for what you use and not stealing it)
It's the guy's who do the cracking and sharing, aswell as those who
download
and use it thats the real problem.
Click to expand...

Indeed and these are targeted in other ways.
But, ironically, they are probably the ones who suffer the least.
The money is lost on commercial piracy, but is used to fight the little
guy.
Click to expand...

No everyone who is a pirate is targeted both casual and commercial. You
just see more visible the casual methods of combat.
If that's not money out the window (no pun intended) then I don't know
what
is.
Click to expand...

Money being thrown away would be to do nothing to attack both forms as both
cost revenue. You can actually see in your response why this is an issue in
your use of the "family" and "little guy" clearly showing that people seem
to think just putting Windows on one more PC in their houses doesn't
matter - but there are millions of these and them casually stealing Windows
through ignorance of license terms or deliberate attempts must be stopped.
(As well as working to stop commercial piracy etc)
Again...I would much rather have the money spent on making the os even
better, thereby making it even more appealing to buy.
Click to expand...

The R&D budget is huge - but it could be bigger if people paid for the
software they casually steal, either through casual piracy or
buying/downloading commercially pirated software etc.
Fair enough ;-)


I don't doubt that there are many new features. And since I have only
tried
the basic version on a VPC I can't really tell.
But based on articles, blogs and comments on the net, it seems that all
vista really is, is eyecandy. (when aero is enabled, that is)
Main problem, probably being, that most of the features are invisible and
are running in the background, like the searchindexer etc., while the
visible
ones, just seems too intrusive, like UAC.

But, as I stated earlier, if they fix the gameport, I'll give it a try.
Until then...it's xp for me.
Click to expand...

Gameport coming back is extremely unlikely.
 
I wasn't even responding to you!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User
 
You make a good point.

I agree that any degree of piracy is wrong, being casual or commercial.
But I still think the strategy need to re-thought.
As I wrote in another post; I don't have the answer of what to do instead.
 
omron said:
I'm not saying that it's ok to make illegal copies. Of course it's not,
but
I fail to see how it's MS job to enforce it.
Click to expand...
Oddly enough FabDVD Platinum, works in Vista, but the system will not play
the DVD, they work fine in other machines however.
 
Richard Urban said:
I am only going to comment on number 4.

Why don't you take all the exterior doors off of your home because someday
you may be robbed anyway. Concentrate your efforts and money on making the
inside of your home more luxurious and livable (so the robbers will want
what you have inside even more).

After all, the person who wants what you have may be poor and unable to
purchase that which you have for himself. That doesn't mean that he should
not be allowed to take yours.
Click to expand...

what a complete and total prrrick

you really get off on that deputy dawg MVP badge you flash around doncha?
 
Why not try to install the XP game port driver.
omron said:
You make a good point.

I agree that any degree of piracy is wrong, being casual or commercial.
But I still think the strategy need to re-thought.
As I wrote in another post; I don't have the answer of what to do instead.
Click to expand...
 
With all due respect to the MVPs and their often generous assistance, this
thread illustrates the Vista problem(s). I read until my eyes start to glaze
as points are made then debated; specifics are offered then justified
according to MS position (so many specifics -- everybody seems to have
unique problems as well as the universal ones). MVPs, do you expect people
to say "Oh well, then I'll just suck it up and live with it" when they
present a problem and you simply pass it off with MS's stated Raison d'
etre?

All I know is that I bought a laptop I expected to use and I'm not able to
trust it. It is not stable even though it is OEM with plenty of appropriate
hardware. The only thing that saved me as compared to many victims who
naively upgraded having only one PC, is that I keep XP alive on my desktop.
MS does not warn people that that is the only way they can be assured of
having something stable in their computing.

MVPs need to answer this: If this were a car you had to drive an hour to
work with on the freeway and it was as unpredictable as Vista seems to be
(IS in my case), you would not tolerate all of the justifications, excuses,
etc. as you were pulled over on the highway talking to the dealer on your
cell phone. By now there would be class action suits galore as per the
"Lemon Law". Well, we need a lemon law for all corporations and all
technical products, otherwise MS can feel free to abuse consumers with
impunity.

The OP in this thread was very sensible with a particularly valid complaint,
that he has expensive stuff that MS totally either ignored, or rejoiced that
it would cause a spike in hardware sales due to these designs -- they could
have just as easily accomodated most of these complaints by including
options and choices.

It does no good to like or hate a corporation, no matter what good they have
offered to further technology, but I have come to the conclusion that the MS
attitude presently sucks, very much from what the MVPs here have come to
stand for by justifying everything out of hand. This thread is a prime
example of why I find myself losing faith in MVPs in spite of the gratitude
I owe them for help in the past. If it were me and a poster like the OP
expressed their valid gripes, I would have to respond " You are right, MS
does not care at all about your type of problem" -- you might lose some
perks but could retain some self respect inasmuch as folks would respect
your honesty more than your compliance to bad policy.

As with any statement you can rebut this point by point as has been the norm
lately on this newsgroup, but it would do you better to just read and
think -- people respect others who undefensibly think about what they have
to say, and are able to leave their egos out of the discourse.

Pflu
 
I don't think that would work.
Apparently Vista disables the hardware altogether.
Besides, the Add button is gone from game controllers in the control panel.
I guess that's because usb devices are detected automatically.
 
But you're were responding ABOUT me...

There's no need for name calling, but what you posted was completely
uncalled for.

Seriously...how can you compare piracy with a robbery?
If a guy steals my tv, I dont have a TV anymore.
If a guy makes an illegal copy of windows, does that mean MS doesn't have
any Windows left?

Again, I'm all against piracy, but nevertheless, comparisons should be
accurate.
This discussion was never about being for or against piracy anyway. It was a
matter of how far you're willing to go to prevent it.
 
Good One!
:Thumbs Up:


Pflueger said:
With all due respect to the MVPs and their often generous assistance, this
thread illustrates the Vista problem(s). I read until my eyes start to glaze
as points are made then debated; specifics are offered then justified
according to MS position (so many specifics -- everybody seems to have
unique problems as well as the universal ones). MVPs, do you expect people
to say "Oh well, then I'll just suck it up and live with it" when they
present a problem and you simply pass it off with MS's stated Raison d'
etre?

All I know is that I bought a laptop I expected to use and I'm not able to
trust it. It is not stable even though it is OEM with plenty of appropriate
hardware. The only thing that saved me as compared to many victims who
naively upgraded having only one PC, is that I keep XP alive on my desktop.
MS does not warn people that that is the only way they can be assured of
having something stable in their computing.

MVPs need to answer this: If this were a car you had to drive an hour to
work with on the freeway and it was as unpredictable as Vista seems to be
(IS in my case), you would not tolerate all of the justifications, excuses,
etc. as you were pulled over on the highway talking to the dealer on your
cell phone. By now there would be class action suits galore as per the
"Lemon Law". Well, we need a lemon law for all corporations and all
technical products, otherwise MS can feel free to abuse consumers with
impunity.

The OP in this thread was very sensible with a particularly valid complaint,
that he has expensive stuff that MS totally either ignored, or rejoiced that
it would cause a spike in hardware sales due to these designs -- they could
have just as easily accomodated most of these complaints by including
options and choices.

It does no good to like or hate a corporation, no matter what good they have
offered to further technology, but I have come to the conclusion that the MS
attitude presently sucks, very much from what the MVPs here have come to
stand for by justifying everything out of hand. This thread is a prime
example of why I find myself losing faith in MVPs in spite of the gratitude
I owe them for help in the past. If it were me and a poster like the OP
expressed their valid gripes, I would have to respond " You are right, MS
does not care at all about your type of problem" -- you might lose some
perks but could retain some self respect inasmuch as folks would respect
your honesty more than your compliance to bad policy.

As with any statement you can rebut this point by point as has been the norm
lately on this newsgroup, but it would do you better to just read and
think -- people respect others who undefensibly think about what they have
to say, and are able to leave their egos out of the discourse.

Pflu
Click to expand...
 
I'd try installing the Vista one (that doesn't do anything) then upgrading
it and point it to an XP installation inf folder (assuming it works). Then
try to run the software that comes with the joystick.
 
Hmm...it seems other people have tried something similiar
(http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=539328)
Not the built in XP driver, but still...

My problem is, that I have only tried vista in a VPC with the 30 day trial,
and VPC doesn't support gameport as well, so I have no way of testing just
yet.
I would have to install it on my desktop, which is why I would like to know
beforehand that it could work.

I must try and get another HD I can install it to. That way, I can always go
back to my XP.

Thanks for the suggestion though.
 
The problem being that for many, Vista is stable and does work extremely
well.. I am but one of them..

If Vista is installed on inappropriate equipment either by a user at home or
a major OEM vendor, then surely the home user and vendor should be taken to
task..


Pflueger said:
With all due respect to the MVPs and their often generous assistance, this
thread illustrates the Vista problem(s). I read until my eyes start to
glaze
as points are made then debated; specifics are offered then justified
according to MS position (so many specifics -- everybody seems to have
unique problems as well as the universal ones). MVPs, do you expect people
to say "Oh well, then I'll just suck it up and live with it" when they
present a problem and you simply pass it off with MS's stated Raison d'
etre?

All I know is that I bought a laptop I expected to use and I'm not able to
trust it. It is not stable even though it is OEM with plenty of
appropriate
hardware. The only thing that saved me as compared to many victims who
naively upgraded having only one PC, is that I keep XP alive on my
desktop.
MS does not warn people that that is the only way they can be assured of
having something stable in their computing.

MVPs need to answer this: If this were a car you had to drive an hour to
work with on the freeway and it was as unpredictable as Vista seems to be
(IS in my case), you would not tolerate all of the justifications,
excuses,
etc. as you were pulled over on the highway talking to the dealer on your
cell phone. By now there would be class action suits galore as per the
"Lemon Law". Well, we need a lemon law for all corporations and all
technical products, otherwise MS can feel free to abuse consumers with
impunity.

The OP in this thread was very sensible with a particularly valid
complaint,
that he has expensive stuff that MS totally either ignored, or rejoiced
that
it would cause a spike in hardware sales due to these designs -- they
could
have just as easily accomodated most of these complaints by including
options and choices.

It does no good to like or hate a corporation, no matter what good they
have
offered to further technology, but I have come to the conclusion that the
MS
attitude presently sucks, very much from what the MVPs here have come to
stand for by justifying everything out of hand. This thread is a prime
example of why I find myself losing faith in MVPs in spite of the
gratitude
I owe them for help in the past. If it were me and a poster like the OP
expressed their valid gripes, I would have to respond " You are right, MS
does not care at all about your type of problem" -- you might lose some
perks but could retain some self respect inasmuch as folks would respect
your honesty more than your compliance to bad policy.

As with any statement you can rebut this point by point as has been the
norm
lately on this newsgroup, but it would do you better to just read and
think -- people respect others who undefensibly think about what they have
to say, and are able to leave their egos out of the discourse.

Pflu
Click to expand...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
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