Does Dell make its own motherboards?

[Rob Nicholson]

.... does that translate into "no one ever got fired for buying an IBM"

)))))))))

Do they still make Thinkpads themselves? I know they've just sold the entire
PC arm to a company in China.

Rob.

 

[Rob Nicholson]

I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on

what it's like in the UK (Britain)

Eh? Software purchased with a Dell PC (i.e. Windows XP Professional & Office
2003) is always cheaper than purchased separately, unless you have a huge
license agreement.

Rob.

 

[Rob Nicholson]

1, the CPU cooler consisted of a green plastic duct over the metalwork

led to a 120 mm fan on the rear, nice and quiet.

Those are nice aren't they - I'd never class Dell PCs as loud. Compared to
some of their rack mount servers which sound like a jumbo jet

2, No AGP socket - the solder pads are there on the board, but no
socket. This one had onboard graphics. If you wanted to upgrade to
decent graphics you'd have to use a PCI card.

Out of interest, what's the performance of a PCI graphics card compared to
an AGP one?

Rob.

 

[Tx2]

Dell kit is incredibly reliable ...

My experience with Dell differs, both from the point of sale, and
getting support on both warranty and out of warranty machines.

Try telling the totally crippled & disabled lady in the wheelchair who's
lifeline was/is the internet, that her 14 month old Dell is completely
knackered and there's nothing you can do 'off the shelf' because it's a
Dell, like I had to do last month.

Dell wouldn't take on the repair. It needed a replacement mainboard.
Her son purchased a 2nd user IBM Aptiva off me which AFAIK, is still
working.

Try apologising to a guy for recommending Dell to him when he needed an
urgent but budget replacement PC, and who then had an awful experience
with Dell sales, giving him the complete run-around, so much so he
wasted more time than if he'd gone to Dixons and bought a Packard Bell.
He was not impressed with my 'recommendation'... I swore never to do so
again as my reputation had been 'tarnished'.

Get told by Dell support to 'pull' a machine apart on the bedroom floor
when on the phone to them.

I was at a clients to try and solve a non-booting system, called Dell
Tech Support as the thing was under warranty and needed an engineer. The
OP i spoke to had me (she thought I was a non technical customer)
pulling out memory, CMOS battery, unplugging this, unplugging that ...
all on a nylon bedroom carpet with no anti-stat procedures. Eventually,
I held my hands up in despair and handed the phone to the actual owner
of the machine who really lost it on the phone with the OP. I know not
the outcome as I got paid for my time, and left.

My homebuilt PC here is very reliable, it cost more than a Dell would,
but I know I can repair it the same day if any hardware fails. Keeping
it up and running is a damn site more important to me than saving £100
and then faffing around trying to get Dell to fix it.

If one of the Dell base units failed, we wouldn't bother trying to fix it..
We'd simply buy a new base unit for ~£200. £200 doesn't buy you a lotof
"fixing" time and you'll have a nice new higher-spec box anyway.

Nice to have the budget ... I could fix my PC here for a *lot* less than
£200 though.

Each to their own of course, but I won't personally buy or recommend
Dell through my own bad experiences with them.

 

[Tx2]

And what about time spent purchasing the components and did that include the
operating system and software?? What about those times when you got an
awkward new motherboard which didn't work with a component?

I already posted I could buy, build, and have a system up and running in
a day. I've done it. There's nothing to it.

Buying a Dell still involves time.

Why would I buy an awkward motherboard in the first place? I'd buy brand
name, based on experience and reviews. Not some godforsaken name i'd
never heard of from some 'geezer' at the local fair.

And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA!

Dell aren't excluded from supplying DOA systems.

Getting the supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight
to replace them is a nightmare...

And it's not with Dell?

The point is, if a component is DOA, I can, if need be, nip down my
local store and get a replacement, then sort out the RMA with the online
supplier. I'd be entitled to a full refund at that early stage, so I
wouldn't be seeking a replacement.

Look, at the end of the day, you are never going to convince me that
Dell is a better option as my experience begs to differ. I appreciate
that there are situations where Dell is the preferred option based on
cost, but I tend to look beyond budget due the experiences I've had with
Dell, and as such, they aren't a manufacturer i will use.

You'll go blue before I'm convinced otherwise.

 

[Tx2]

Eh? Software purchased with a Dell PC (i.e. Windows XP Professional & Office
2003) is always cheaper than purchased separately, unless you have a huge
license agreement

I wasn't talking exclusively about software licensing.

 

[Leythos]

[...]

When it comes to home computers, sure, Dell is not going to sell you a
bleeding edge system as cheap as you can buy the parts yourself, but
they will get the OS and Apps cheaper as well as many of the extras. The
big place they get the self-builder is the apps and support/warranty.

Are you 'talking' about the situation from outside the UK?

I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
what it's like in the UK (Britain)

And how does it differ in the UK? If you're going to suggest that it's
different in the UK you should give specific examples of how it differs.

 

[Tx2]

And how does it differ in the UK? If you're going to suggest that it's
different in the UK you should give specific examples of how it differs.

I have given examples of my experience with Dell in the UK via another
posting, and I believe there have been other posts made reflecting such
from other users in this thread.

You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
support/warranty"

Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
located.

They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
independent self-builder.

FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

 

[Gama Chameleon]

Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
located.

They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
independent self-builder.

Of course thats assuming that the self builder is never going to go on
say a 1 or 2 week holiday, say leaving the company the self built
machine for in the lurch until they get back.

Or say the builder is out fixing another machine whilst one fails and
is unable to get there the same day to fix that one as its a one man
business.

FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

Servers can be self built, but unless you understand the technology
beind them I wouldn't recomend it. They don't tend to be cutting edge
technology anyway, better to be just behind the curve and have kit
that is tried and tested to be compatible, stable and robust.

I guess you are talking more from the perspective desk top PC in an
environment that can cope with it being out for a day or more, e.g. a
business non PC centric or a home user.

 

[Leythos]

You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
support/warranty"

Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
located.

The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.

They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
independent self-builder.

And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.

FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
people buy Dell's and others.

 

[GB]

I have given examples of my experience with Dell in the UK via another
posting, and I believe there have been other posts made reflecting such
from other users in this thread.

I can well believe the difficulties you mention with Dell.

However, on the plus side, they do at least test-run the systems before
shipping them, so that cuts down some of the problems. All the components in
the system are tested first by the manufacturers and then by Dell when they
test-run the system.

If you buy your components from an online supplier, you are of course having
to deal with *their* often shitty customer services if you have a problem. I
have had more duff components than duff fully-built PCs because the PCs go
through the second stage of testing. I am sure that you do the same when you
build a system for a customer, so I am not suggesting that Dell are doing
anything particularly clever here.

Geoff

 

[BigH2K]

The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.


And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.


So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
people buy Dell's and others.

I personally wouldn't buy Dell or any other brand name for a home PC.

OTOH, I would buy Dell or a brand name for corporate use and that's what
most companies do because they get the economies of scale and they do get
good support but Dell and others just don't give that sort of backing to the
home user. Remember that if one of your machines goes down and you're a
company with 5 or 10+ machines you're gonna lose a relatively low percentage
of your productivity for a relatively short space of time. If your home PC
goes tits up you'll lose 100% for at least a few days, sometimes weeks.

If Dell sold home machines with standard components for a realistic price
then I might be interested but what Dell have tried to do, and fortunately
failed IMO to achieve is total market domination by cutting their margins to
the bone in order to price competitors out.

Also bear in mind that here in the UK we often get a much poorer deal than
US customers in terms of service and price for reasons that are far too sad
to debate in this thread so please don't assume you can purchase uprated
support services at bargain prices because we often don't have access to
those options or those prices.

 

[Mercury]

Me.
I have read of many cases where the Dell SCSI RAID config is bolted down in
the SCSI firmware. IE RAID 5 and thats that. Only one disc volume, no
options.

Building a server is easy. Bigger margins, better quality everywhere, less
driver hassles so long as you pick the right h/w (WHQL).You can save many
thousands on a modest server. Not for the inexperienced tho I suppose.

 

[Mercury]

Servers cutting edge? Huh?
Conservative cutting edge IE lagging 6 months at least.
You will find more raid, more advacned controllers, system management
functions etc. but that is long in the tooth stuff.

 

[Mercury]

2d graphics: The best PCI is up with average AGP.
3d graphics: AGP by leaps and bounds.

Good PCI graphics is hard to come by.
Gosh I remember the day of ISA graphics cards and you could watch windows
draw the drop list of a combo box so sloooowly.

Chances are the onboard graphic would be good for 2d and it would be
expensive to find a PCI card better at 2d. 3d dunno.

 

[Rob S]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:09:51 GMT, "Rob Nicholson"

-And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA! Getting the
-supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight to replace them is a nightmare...

Just had some interesting experiences with 3 problems that all came to a head
over Xmas. Server tape drive fault (HP), DOA CD writer (Computer 2000), faulty
TFT (Acer). Full details on request by sending a postcard or stuck down
envelope, but the conclusion is:

HP - Truly Excellent
C2000 - Good, on way to achieving greatness
Acer - bad bad bad


-Rob
robatwork at mail dot com

 

[Gama Chameleon]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:09:51 GMT, "Rob Nicholson"

-And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA! Getting the
-supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight to replace them is a nightmare...

Just had some interesting experiences with 3 problems that all came to a head
over Xmas. Server tape drive fault (HP), DOA CD writer (Computer 2000), faulty
TFT (Acer). Full details on request by sending a postcard or stuck down
envelope, but the conclusion is:

HP - Truly Excellent

Yep I'd agree there. My mate's PC at home failed. They came out next
day and swapped the CD writer. A few months later the HD failed. They
again came out the next day. Asked him if it was OK if they swapped
his (IIRC) 40 gig HD for an 80 gig one (IIRC) as that was now the
standard size at the time.

 

[Tx2]

(e-mail address removed), a.k.a Gama Chameleon
says...

Of course thats assuming that the self builder is never going to go on
say a 1 or 2 week holiday, say leaving the company the self built
machine for in the lurch until they get back.

A home built system can be repaired 'off the shelf', so to speak, so
anyone with repair knowledge could it.

Or say the builder is out fixing another machine whilst one fails and
is unable to get there the same day to fix that one as its a one man
business

OK, let's all go buy Dell! FFS. Now you are really getting far too
fussy.

Any business who required such a critical support infrastructure is
unlikely to use the local self-employed techie. I certainly wouldn't
even try and suggest to a prospective client that I could support them
at that level, and would most certainly suggest alternatives.

I doubt there are many small businesses who would get a same day
response, but FWIW though, i have managed a same day response and fix on
more than one occasion when I have been able to.

Servers can be self built...

I didn't say they couldn't.

I guess you are talking more from the perspective desk top PC in an
environment that can cope with it being out for a day or more, e.g. a
business non PC centric or a home user

In the main, yes. But I support businesses that rely on their systems a
fair bit. For this purposes, i have 3 spare machines that can quickly be
configured (office, word, internet etc) enough to keep most up and
running in the short term.

 

[Tx2]

The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.


And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.


So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
people buy Dell's and others.

Well, you're clearly in a league w-a-y above me then, I only made about
25 PC's last year, so good luck to you with your 1.3 million.

I don't think such acquisitions can be placed amongst the self build
category, so I'm doubtful you really are discussing Dell from that
market perspective.

I'm not missing any reasons why some people buy Dell at all. I'm talking
about local businesses who want attention to detail and professionalism
from a local, knowledgeable computer services business.

You seem to have missed the fact I have posted but my experiences of
dealing with Dell, and they were not good, so I *choose* to not use
them.

My customers prefer the first class service I offer them, and not that
which a large organisation like Dell, in my experience, has quite simply
failed to deliver or live up to.

 

[Tx2]

I can well believe the difficulties you mention with Dell.

However, on the plus side, they do at least test-run the systems before
shipping them, so that cuts down some of the problems. All the components in
the system are tested first by the manufacturers and then by Dell when they
test-run the system.

All this does is rule out any incompatibilities. Nothing, not even top
rate quality control can prevent electrical or mechanical breakdown.