Detailed dialup network connection logging?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JJ
  • Start date Start date
Char said:
He already knows what he's currently using, since he hardcoded it to
use Google's DNS.

Yes, he knew what he specified for DNS server(s). It looked like he
wanted verification that was what he was actually using. There can be a
difference between a configured setting and the actual usage.
He has mentioned several times, across two different threads in two
different newsgroups, that he wants to see what his ISP offers up for
DNS IP's. Those IP's will almost certainly NOT be Google's DNS.

Oh, you mean MULTI-posting which means none of those discussions are
germaine to this one.

I suspect JJ is using a 3rd party dialer from his ISP. If he was using
Windows' dialer and the dialup connectoid that he defined then he
already answered his question. Dialup connectoids defined by Windows
*do* have a Networking tab under which you can define settings for the
"Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" component. A 3rd party dialer uses its own
settings or those pushed by the service provider.
 
Yes, he knew what he specified for DNS server(s). It looked like he
wanted verification that was what he was actually using.

I actually thought he was fairly clear in what he wanted. He mentioned
it in both of his first posts (one in each newsgroup). He said he
wanted to know what his ISP would push to him if he hadn't hardcoded
to something else. That's not at all the same thing as asking for
verification of he was actually using.
There can be a
difference between a configured setting and the actual usage.


Oh, you mean MULTI-posting which means none of those discussions are
germaine to this one.

I suspect JJ is using a 3rd party dialer from his ISP. If he was using
Windows' dialer and the dialup connectoid that he defined then he
already answered his question. Dialup connectoids defined by Windows
*do* have a Networking tab under which you can define settings for the
"Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" component. A 3rd party dialer uses its own
settings or those pushed by the service provider.

He hasn't confirmed, so far, whether he's using a third party dialer.
If he is, it may not make visible the information he's looking for.
 
inline...
Char Jackson said:
Apparently. :-) I would be surprised to learn I had said that.

When you mentioned a router, and I said you couldn't use a router with
dialup, you needed ICS... you replied that you didn't need ICS, so I
read that as your implying you didn't need to use ICS to use a router
with dial-up. Communication Error: Syntax Breakdown! You gotta start
writing the way I read!
Are you sure it didn't come that way from the factory?

I dunno, I still can't find the manual.
 
VanguardLH said:
You're saying on your host that when you right-click on the dialup
connectoid in the Network applet in Control Panel, select Properties,
look under the Networking tab, that is is no networking component listed
for "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)"? If not, just WHERE were you defining
your static (non-DHCP) list of DNS servers?

On the "General" tab of "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" dialog. It only has
two groups of setting: the IP and the DNS. On the DNS, I chose "Use the
following DNS server addresses". And the DNS address is entered there.
Are you using a dialup connectoid defined by Windows or are you using
some 3rd party dialup software that operates using its own protocol? If

Using Windows (XP). Last time I see a custom dialer for internet access
was in Windows 3. The modem do have a dialer but it's just a helper
that's still use Windows builtin dialer, so it's not worth the memory.
Why is nslookup unreliable? If you don't specify a DNS server (by going
into interactive mode) then nslookup will use the DNS server(s) in the
priority order that you specified in the TCP/IP properties for your
dialup connectoid. If the "given address" (is that the hostname?) is
not correct, none of the DNS servers you specified is going to return a
positive result.

nslookup need a host name or IP address in order to retrieve its
registered DNS addresses. If I give nslookup the wrong address the result
to be wrong. That's why it's not reliable. Besides, the queried data
might already have expired.
 
JJ schreef:
On the "General" tab of "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" dialog. It only has
two groups of setting: the IP and the DNS. On the DNS, I chose "Use the
following DNS server addresses". And the DNS address is entered there.


Using Windows (XP). Last time I see a custom dialer for internet access
was in Windows 3. The modem do have a dialer but it's just a helper
that's still use Windows builtin dialer, so it's not worth the memory.


nslookup need a host name or IP address in order to retrieve its
registered DNS addresses. If I give nslookup the wrong address the result
to be wrong. That's why it's not reliable. Besides, the queried data
might already have expired.

You can try HoverIP, it's freeware.
http://www.hoverdesk.net/freeware.htm

There's a portable version available:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/PORTAB...-Portable-Applications-Portable-HoverIP.shtml

Download HoverIP Portable zipfile
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-postdownload.php?p=95049&t=4&i=1

Regards,

Zanqeutil
 
Char said:
He hasn't confirmed, so far, whether he's using a third party dialer.
If he is, it may not make visible the information he's looking for.

Yeah, it's probably been around 20 years since I used AOL with their
dialer. About the only user configuration that I recall with their
dialer was username, password, and the telephone number to call.

http://help.aol.com/help/microsites/microsite.do?cmd=displayKC&docType=kc&externalId=218335

The info there is worthless to anyone not currently an AOL customer or
who doesn't have their dialer installed to look at its included help
file. I did find some more info at:

http://help.aol.com/help/microsites...T_AOLHOW_TO_1_1&dialogID=2038430659&stateId=0 0 634368431&radios=False
http://help.aol.com/help/microsites/microsite.do?cmd=displayKCPopup&docType=kc&externalId=12951

However, I couldn't see where any IP addressing, DHCP, or DNS settings
were available in the configuration of their dialer software. The
following article purports to address DNS problems:

http://help.aol.com/help/microsites...BLESHOOTING_1_1&dialogID=2038430905&stateId=0 0 634372557&radios=False

Yet it never mentions how to configure DNS in their dialer. I suspect
you're supposed to use whatever DNS server the telephone number you call
will give you.

It's been way too long since I used dial-up service. Does anyone other
than AOL also provide their own customized dialer application? I'm not
sure the AOL dialer is even required anymore. AOL provides instructions
on how to use the Windows dialer to connect to their service:

http://help.aol.com/help/microsites/microsite.do?cmd=displayKCPopup&docType=kc&externalId=16419

With Windows using its connectoid definition and dialer, you can specify
what DNS server to use.
 
Yeah, it's probably been around 20 years since I used AOL with their
dialer. About the only user configuration that I recall with their
dialer was username, password, and the telephone number to call.
....

It's been way too long since I used dial-up service. Does anyone other
than AOL also provide their own customized dialer application?

Sprint does, and I think some of the other wireless telecoms do, too.
Strictly speaking, you don't have to use it, but it's easier if you
do.
 
JJ said:
On the "General" tab of "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" dialog. It only
has two groups of setting: the IP and the DNS. On the DNS, I chose
"Use the following DNS server addresses". And the DNS address is
entered there.

There is an Advanced button there; however, if you only specify a
maximum of 2 DNS servers than you don't need to go into the advanced
settings. The order for DNS servers listed in the General tab will be
the same order listed under the advanced properties under the DNS tab.
Using Windows (XP). Last time I see a custom dialer for internet
access was in Windows 3. The modem do have a dialer but it's just a
helper that's still use Windows builtin dialer, so it's not worth the
memory.

Who is your ISP? As I recall, and why I asked about a 3rd party dialer,
is that AOL did and still does provide their own dialer app. If you use
that then you don't get any configurable options, like IP address and
DNS server(s).

If you are using the Windows dialer along with a connectoid defined in
the Network applet in Control Panel (for use by the Windows dialer, not
by some other dialer) then the DNS settings you specified will get used.
nslookup need a host name or IP address in order to retrieve its
registered DNS addresses. If I give nslookup the wrong address the result
to be wrong. That's why it's not reliable. Besides, the queried data
might already have expired.

What would be the point of running nslookup without telling it what you
wanted to look up? That would be like opening a phone book but you
don't know the name of whomever you wanted to look up. Humans like
names but computers use numbers hence the need for a DNS lookup. The
point of using nslookup to to do a lookup so obviously you have to
specify a hostname or optionally an IP address (if the DNS server
supports reverse lookups).

What did you expect to get as a result from nslookup if you didn't tell
it what to lookup?

If you give a hostname that isn't defined in the DNS server to which you
connect then that lookup fails. The DNS server then passes the request
to the next upstream DNS server. It can keep failing until the request
goes all the way back to the nameserver the domain uses as the DNS
server to equate their hostnames to IP addresses.

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/dns_domainnamesystem/f/dns_servers.htm

See the 4th paragraph under the "DNS Server Hierarchy" section. If no
DNS server can return an IP address (i.e., none of them have an A record
for the hostname that you specified) then you get back a failure on the
lookup. Nothing "wrong" was returned. Either the hostname was defined
in one of the DNS servers and you get a positive result (the IP address)
or you get a negative result (a failure to find an A record listing the
IP address for that hostname).

Just because a domain is defined doesn't mean it has a server running
there with one, or more, hostnames that are listening for connection
requests. Anyone can register a domain and then decide later whether or
not to use it by running a server program on a host and adding their
host to their nameserver (which they or someone else might operate).

If you try to lookup vanguard.lh, yep, you won't get back an IP address.
The TLD (top-level domain) of LH is not yet defined. No one can
register a domain using that TLD hence why it use it as my bogus e-mail
address in my posts. Any spammers that cull my e-mail address won't
even be able to establish a connection. The sending mail server won't
even try to find a host to which to connect. They'll see an invalid TLD
and immediately error out the mail session. So if you try to run
"nslookup vanguard.lh" you will get a negative result. That is NOT a
wrong result. It is a correct result showing that no such domain is
defined in any DNS server.

If you think you are experiencing problems with DNS caching (of both
positive and negative results) then you can edit the registry entries
that define how long to keep those cached entries. In the past, DNS
servers were updated maybe once per day and why Microsoft selected a
timeout interval of 1 day for positive results. Nowadays DNS servers
are updated at about 4-hour intervals. So, if you want, you can edit
the positive cached timeout to lower it. You can do the same to
shortenn the interval for negative cached entries (DNS lookup failures).
I changed my positive cache timeout to 15 minutes and negative cache
count down to zero.

You could just set the DNS Client service (that caches the
positive/negative DNS lookups) so it is Disabled. That way, you won't
be caching any entries. Be aware that this also means that your host
will have to do a DNS lookup for EVERY hostname, including the positive
results. That means if a web page has a thousand links to other content
even at the same domain and host that your host will have to perform a
thousand DNS lookups. With positive results getting cached, your host
would only have to do one DNS lookup and would use its local and much
faster cache to find all those other same-domain links in the web page
you are trying to load. DNS lookups are a LOT slower than using a local
cache. If you disable the DNS Client then it will take longer to
retrieve all the same-domain linked content in a web page. There are
exceptions to this, like you have a ridiculously sized 'hosts' files,
like the mega-sized pre-compiled MVPS 'hosts' file.

MS KB article 318803 tells you how to disable the DNS Client service or
how to edit the registry entries regarding caching for positive and
negative entries (separate caches for each).

You will need to better define what you mean by "wrong" regarding a DNS
lookup.

Regardless of your claim about the inaccuracy of the returned results,
that doesn't obviate WHICH server was used for the lookup. So when you
*do* run nslookup, which DNS server did it say that it used?
 
Zanqeutil said:
JJ schreef:

You can try HoverIP, it's freeware.
http://www.hoverdesk.net/freeware.htm

There's a portable version available:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/PORTAB...-Portable-Applications-Portable-HoverIP.shtml

Download HoverIP Portable zipfile
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-postdownload.php?p=95049&t=4&i=1

Regards,

Zanqeutil

Alas, the OP (JJ) wants to see which DNS server he is *using* and not
what he specifically configured for use. He also doesn't believe
nslookup will tell him which DNS server was used for a lookup so he
isn't going to believe the output from Hover's nslookup, either.
 
Alas, the OP (JJ) wants to see which DNS server he is *using* and not
what he specifically configured for use.

The way I read it, he wants to know what his dial-up ISP uses for DNS
for its customers. That's going to be different from what he's using
because he has hardcoded the DNS entries on his host.
 
Char said:
The way I read it, he wants to know what his dial-up ISP uses for DNS
for its customers. That's going to be different from what he's using
because he has hardcoded the DNS entries on his host.

How hard would it be to find out? Just do NOT define a specific list of
DNS servers. Let the ISP specify the DNS server. Then do the nslookup
to see what his ISP gave him. That's how I find out what my ISP assigns
to me (because they have regional DNS servers).
 
How hard would it be to find out? Just do NOT define a specific list of
DNS servers. Let the ISP specify the DNS server. Then do the nslookup
to see what his ISP gave him. That's how I find out what my ISP assigns
to me (because they have regional DNS servers).

I agree. I suggested that several days ago.
 
VanguardLH said:
Alas, the OP (JJ) wants to see which DNS server he is *using* and not
what he specifically configured for use. He also doesn't believe
nslookup will tell him which DNS server was used for a lookup so he
isn't going to believe the output from Hover's nslookup, either.

Actually, I'm not interested on the DNS I'm currently using. I only
interested on the DNS that is offered during a dialup connection.

Assume as I'm trying to re-get the gateway for my dialup connection directly
from my ISP, without reconnecting my dialup.
 
Char Jackson said:
The way I read it, he wants to know what his dial-up ISP uses for DNS
for its customers. That's going to be different from what he's using
because he has hardcoded the DNS entries on his host.

Exactly. Since the DNS are specifically set, Windows ignored the offered DNS
from the ISP. I need to be able to get the offered DNS from a log or
something, although it would be better if I could request them directly from
the ISP on demand.
 
VanguardLH said:
How hard would it be to find out? Just do NOT define a specific list of
DNS servers. Let the ISP specify the DNS server. Then do the nslookup
to see what his ISP gave him. That's how I find out what my ISP assigns
to me (because they have regional DNS servers).

Letting the ISP specify the DNS server (i.e.: use dynamic DNS on the dialup
connection setting) does give the exact answer I need, however I don't want
to use them. I need to use my custom list of DNS (as static DNS) while still
able to get that same ISP DNS.
 
Char said:
I agree. I suggested that several days ago.

Actually I'm the only respondent here that said to use 'nslookup' to
provide an on-demand means of testing which DNS server is currently
being employed for lookups. Maybe you suggested something else but I
don't see it in your replies here. You claimed 'ipconfig' wouldn't show
that info for dialup (I believe it will) so I don't know what you
thought you said would show the actual DNS server versus the configured
one.
 
JJ said:
Actually, I'm not interested on the DNS I'm currently using. I only
interested on the DNS that is offered during a dialup connection.

Assume as I'm trying to re-get the gateway for my dialup connection directly
from my ISP, without reconnecting my dialup.

Not applicable. If you don't configure the connectoid to use the ISP's
DHCP server to have it assign you a DNS server then you don't get one
from them. You just use the one that you specified.

- DHCP used for IP/DNS assignment:
You use what they give assign to you for IP address or DNS server.
ipconfig & nslookup show you what they assigned.

- DHCP *not* used, you specify the IP or DNS assignment (their static):
They never assign your IP address or DNS server. You told them not
to. You configured a static list of IP address or DNS server. You
use that. ipconfig & nslookup show you what you assigned.

If you don't override, you get their assignments. If you override, you
never get their assignment because you are *not* using their DHCP server
to get that assignment but instead you are using whatever you specified
as your override.

It is an exclusive disjunction operation: you get their assignment or
you use your own but there is no combination of both. It's "them XOR
you", not "them OR you". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_or;
however, there is no 1-1 state as shown in the truth table in this
scenario. If you specify non-blank values, their DHCP server isn't
involved. They can't push an IP address or DNS server unless you use
their DHCP server, and you're not using their DHCP server.

Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhcp
 
Exactly. Since the DNS are specifically set, Windows ignored the offered DNS
from the ISP. I need to be able to get the offered DNS from a log or
something, although it would be better if I could request them directly from
the ISP on demand.

What about the previous suggestion to (temporarily) remove your
hardcoded DNS entries and see what you get?
 
Actually I'm the only respondent here that said to use 'nslookup' to
provide an on-demand means of testing which DNS server is currently
being employed for lookups. Maybe you suggested something else but I
don't see it in your replies here. You claimed 'ipconfig' wouldn't show
that info for dialup (I believe it will) so I don't know what you
thought you said would show the actual DNS server versus the configured
one.

What I suggested the other day was for JJ to temporarily remove the
hardcoded DNS entries and let his dial-up ISP assign what they want
him to use. He could then make a note of those values and then make a
decision on whether or not to return to his hardcoded values.

I don't know of any other way to find the information he's looking
for.
 
Letting the ISP specify the DNS server (i.e.: use dynamic DNS on the dialup
connection setting) does give the exact answer I need, however I don't want
to use them. I need to use my custom list of DNS (as static DNS) while still
able to get that same ISP DNS.

Are you saying it's not good enough to get the ISP's DNS information
you're looking for, and then go back to your hardcoded DNS? If so,
there's something you're not telling us.
 
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