Deceptive Practices: Huntersoft

  • Thread starter Thread starter Susan Bugher
  • Start date Start date
Susan said:
Susan Bugher wrote:

Looks like a cover-up has begun.

the Major Geeks forum thread about the program ripoff - which was here
yesterday:

http://www.majorgeeks.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18044

seems to have disappeared. Could someone please look into this. I am
still working on the web page - hope to be done soon.
Click to expand...


and here is a first look at the web page - I will be adding some of
"Jacques" posts and the email he sent to Pricelessware

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Susan
 
Sietse said:
Thanks for the link, burnr.

Maybe this is a good time to add a few words of caution.
It may be wise to keep in mind whom you are dealing with here.
It is obvious that the guy is a criminal.

The story on the above link shows that this guy, operating from China,
when he sees fit, may sign up for spam lists, try to get accounts
closed, threaten to sue or hack web servers (which he has probably
skills to do).
(Also, as Susan has pointed out, a Major Geeks forum thread has
disappeared, which may not have happened entirely voluntarily.)

It is one thing to expose him on usenet, but another thing to put up a
dedicated Pricelessware page.
I suggest to consider whether by doing the latter you risk that the
Pricelessware site and its maintainers become a target for his malicious
actions.

If you consider that to be a real risk, you may want to reflect upon
what it is that you are trying to accomplish with a dedicated
Pricelessware page.
I guess that Susan's main reason for this is that the author has tried
to fix a Pricelessware listing.
That is outrageous and a dedicated Pricelessware page is not an
overreaction, IMO.
But: I also believe that it is wiser to settle with this decicated
a.c.f. thread, rather than putting the Pricelessware site and its
maintainers at risk.

If you want to hurt the guy you can google for sites where his stolen
freeware is listed and send documented emails to those sites to try and
get him off of the listings.
(See also http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/ )

My 2 cts
Click to expand...

Hello Sietse,

I'm outraged on many counts but IMO the *paramount* reason we need this
web page is to add credence to the good guys - the authors who have been
ripped off.

The Major Geeks thread - which they have taken down - showed that Major
Geeks' response to a complaint of theft is feeble - to say the least.
Something along the lines of *we can't tell whose program is a ripoff* -
and not the least attempt on their part to find out.

IMO authors of freeware programs deserve help from alt.comp.freeware
participants when they need it.

I think a web page is necessary - posts are easy to overlook.

When the page is up we can post the URL in other newsgroups and forums -
perhaps also notify some of the web columnists.

I have experienced harassment - I did think about possible problems
before suggesting a web page.

I will add my own name as the preparer - had intended to do this before
your post. I have a son visiting so haven't had much time - but should
have the final product uploaded today.

Harassment is likely to be aimed at me - so be it. If "Jacques" attacks
the Pricelessware site it could be uploaded at another location - or
several other locations. Harassment - if it occurs - will serve as
further proof that "Jacqes" is the villain.

One of the first things I did - before I started the web page - was make
copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered that he might
try to remove them. I suggest others also save evidence - take screen
shots, save web pages etc. etc.

The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will proceed
with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor the wishes of
the group.

Susan
 
One of the first things I did - before I started the web page -
was make copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered
that he might try to remove them. I suggest others also save
evidence - take screen shots, save web pages etc. etc.
Click to expand...

This was a good idea, Susan. Can you tell me if your saved them
with full headers or not? Or if anyone else who has saved them?
I'd do it myself but I have little time atm. At least having
Message-IDs is important because then even if he nukes his posts at
Google Groups, they can be found in other Usenet archives, and it's
good to be able to point to evidence maintained by a neutral
third-party archiver.
The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will
proceed with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor
the wishes of the group.
Click to expand...

I'm still in favor of the page, though I'm not really qualified to
weigh the risks that Sietse brings up. If the group decides against
a page, we just need to be even more vigilant about pointing out the
scum each time it's brought up here by anyone. (Sietse has been
great about doing this for months now already - thanks Sietse!)

I'd also like to encourage anyone who has not to try the Unknown
Devices app which Zhang/Jacques ripped off, and to try it before the
PL nominations get underway, in case it deserves a spot on the list.
I have tried it on my WinXP home machine, and it seems to work
fine; however, all my devices show up fine in the Windows Device
Manager as well, so I can't really assess its value.

<http://www.halfdone.com/Development/UnknownDevices/>
 
Susan said:
Hello Sietse,
Click to expand...

Hello Susan,
I'm outraged on many counts but IMO the *paramount* reason we need
this web page is to add credence to the good guys - the authors who
have been ripped off.
Click to expand...

Good. Point taken.
The Major Geeks thread - which they have taken down - showed that
Major Geeks' response to a complaint of theft is feeble - to say the
least. Something along the lines of *we can't tell whose program is a
ripoff* - and not the least attempt on their part to find out.
Click to expand...

I see. I had not seen the thread.
Well, the evidence is there and is compelling, as we all know.
IMO authors of freeware programs deserve help from alt.comp.freeware
participants when they need it.
Agreed.

I think a web page is necessary - posts are easy to overlook.

When the page is up we can post the URL in other newsgroups and
forums - perhaps also notify some of the web columnists.
Click to expand...

No doubt that a web page is useful.
I have experienced harassment - I did think about possible problems
before suggesting a web page.
Click to expand...

I am sorry to hear that! :(
I will add my own name as the preparer - had intended to do this
before your post. I have a son visiting so haven't had much time -
but should have the final product uploaded today.

Harassment is likely to be aimed at me - so be it. If "Jacques"
attacks the Pricelessware site it could be uploaded at another
location - or several other locations. Harassment - if it occurs -
will serve as further proof that "Jacqes" is the villain.
Click to expand...

Well, we really do not need more proof! :)
One of the first things I did - before I started the web page - was
make copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered that he
might try to remove them. I suggest others also save evidence - take
screen shots, save web pages etc. etc.

The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will proceed
with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor the wishes of
the group.

Susan
Click to expand...

OK, I am very glad with the stance you take, Susan.

I believe everybody so far was in favor of the web page.
But I guess not all of them realized how nasty these things can get.
The link that burnr provided shows that Huntersoft has at least started
to harrass one of the authors.
Now you tell that you also have been harrassed by them, if I understand
you correctly.
Some of us may recall the PcHelp vs Lockdown affair.
It is of course very, very unlikely that this will develop into anything
remotely as nasty as that.

Anyway, I thought these aspects should at least be discussed.
Nobody should take for granted that you would be willing to put up with
harrassment on top of all the rest.
It turns out that you had realized all that and take it up admirably.

That is great, Susan. Bless you.
 
»Q« said:
This was a good idea, Susan. Can you tell me if your saved them
with full headers or not? Or if anyone else who has saved them?
I'd do it myself but I have little time atm. At least having
Message-IDs is important because then even if he nukes his posts at
Google Groups, they can be found in other Usenet archives, and it's
good to be able to point to evidence maintained by a neutral
third-party archiver.
Click to expand...

I rather not post exactly what I have or haven't saved since *Jacques*
is probably reading the posts (email me offlist). I do encourage
*everyone* to save evidence that might disappear - the more the merrier.

Susan
 
Sietse said:
Good. Point taken.
Click to expand...
OK, I am very glad with the stance you take, Susan.

I believe everybody so far was in favor of the web page.
But I guess not all of them realized how nasty these things can get.
The link that burnr provided shows that Huntersoft has at least started
to harrass one of the authors.
Now you tell that you also have been harrassed by them, if I understand
you correctly.

Anyway, I thought these aspects should at least be discussed.
Nobody should take for granted that you would be willing to put up with
harrassment on top of all the rest.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the support Sietse. I'm glad you brought this up. The
possible repercussions certainly deserve full consideration by everyone.

Just to keep the record straight - *to date* Huntersoft has not harassed
me - the harassment I spoke of was something totally unrelated to this.
I mentioned it just so you would know I'm not going into this blind -
I'm aware of some of the things that can happen.

Despite possible repercussions I think it should be done and as long as
I have agreement from the group I'll proceed.

Susan
 
Susan said:
Thanks for the support Sietse. I'm glad you brought this up. The
possible repercussions certainly deserve full consideration by
everyone.

Just to keep the record straight - *to date* Huntersoft has not
harassed me - the harassment I spoke of was something totally
unrelated to this.
I mentioned it just so you would know I'm not going into this blind -
I'm aware of some of the things that can happen.

Despite possible repercussions I think it should be done and as long
as
I have agreement from the group I'll proceed.
Click to expand...

Just a minor 2¢ worth on the "less negative" side. The site hacking
threat, as discussed by the GOODGUY author in the link burnr provided,
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14842
seems to be centered on the fact that the site in question provided some
interactivity. This means some potential vulnerabilities via write
permissions to directories. I don't recall any such interactivity being
available on the PL site, so its own vulnerability might be rather less.
Hopefully true, but I'm no expert here.
 
Halfdone Development has a new page about Huntersoft here:
http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/Message2Huntersoft/
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that the message from Huntersoft that Halfdone
mentions threatens Halfdone with hacking. That, in itself, is an actionable
item, I believe.
--
Brian Tillman Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com
Smiths Aerospace Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.
3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "."
Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991
This opinion doesn't represent that of my company
 
Brian said:
I find it interesting that the message from Huntersoft that Halfdone
mentions threatens Halfdone with hacking. That, in itself, is an actionable
item, I believe.
Click to expand...

Effective legal action might be difficult. The threat was made to Jerry
Rawdon of JerMar Software Corp. I just looked at the forum web page - it
says Rawdon is in Vancouver, WA. "Jacques" is in China.

Susan
 
Susan Bugher said:
Effective legal action might be difficult. The threat was made to Jerry
Rawdon of JerMar Software Corp. I just looked at the forum web page - it
says Rawdon is in Vancouver, WA. "Jacques" is in China.
Click to expand...
What!...there's a Vancouver in WA? When did it move from BC? :-)


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