CPU Crashes Cold, But Works Great Warm??? Help?

[kony]

Excuse me Spock, but my "random speculation" was that a HIGHER PRICED
power supply might not do any better. I'm pretty sure that correcting
MISQUOTED logic breaks the Vulcan code

LOL, Ok. Price is a hard guage especially when some of the questionable
units have been prettied up and priced accordingly.

Just kidding
In all seriousness, I am planning to go with a name brand this time.
So any recommendations on the lower priced name brands(Allied,
Antec,AGPB)?

Of the three, I'd go with the Antec, though I haven't had a chance to
examine any AGPB recently. Another good value-priced manufacturer is
Sparkle/Fortron.

 

[Billy Saul Hearok]

Of the three, I'd go with the Antec, though I haven't had a chance to
examine any AGPB recently. Another good value-priced manufacturer is
Sparkle/Fortron.

Thanks Kony, I'll probably go with an Antec.

 

[Trent©]

That's just it, insufficient capacity can and does affect lifespan. Take
any power supply and try running it beyond an amperage it can sustain and
you will reduce it's lifespan... not just a matter of whether it turns on
the first day or for a few months. Likely if you'd kept that PSU in the
original or 2nd system build, it'd still be working today barring some
random mishap like a significant AC line surge.

I don't believe that for a second. Yer welcome to your opinion, of
course.

"You're not sure". Ignoring random failures and looking at the odds, I am
sure that a quality name-brand unit of ample capacity will last over 5
years.

Why would you make such a statement? Personal opinion, of course. I
understand. But, in reality, quality components on all KINDS of
devices go bad on a regular basis.

It's not even necessary to contrast a generic with a $100 unit,
even many $50 units can be expected to support the amperage on their label
and have a serviceable lifespan of roughly a decade. I have stacks of
generics that pile up and get thrown out, they're not even worth
repairing.

They're not MEANT to be repaired. That's one of the principles that
makes them cheaper to build...and sell.

The stack of name-brand units is non-existant, they get reused
and are still working, barring a few random failures at nowhere near the
rate of the generics.

Ah...that 'barring' thing!

Now don't get me wrong, there are some generics that aren't terrible.
Then there's the issue of what we call a generic...

NOW we're gettin' to the meat of things.

If a large name-brand
company produces a unit that's relabeled, the user may or may not realize
this, may or may not consider anything less than a very popular brand to
be a generic. Your gamble paid off, but others lose this gamble... system
reliability should not BE a gamble.

I see generic parts of all kinds...including power supplies...every
day. They come inside Dells, Compaqs, HP's, etc.

The bottom line is that power supply manufacturers can charge whatever the
market will bear, but usually these generics have design, construction
differences. No company is going to throw away money if there isn't some
benefit, purpose behind that. You are free to buy whatever you like but
your random speculation that a "better" power supply wouldn't do any
"better", is in itself quite illogical. If you deny that one of the top
name-brands is better than a generic then open a few up, compare the build
and do some testing.

But why pay for more than you need? Plus...there's more to a selling
price that just recovering the COST of the components. There's
profit. Often, the better the sales spiel, the more profit that can
be had. After all, price DOES denote quality...right?

Last post by me on this. This is another one of the subjects that we
could kick around for months.

But I've been building computers for a long time. Only once did I buy
a power supply by itself...as a replacement. I don't buy power
supplies...I buy cases. And I've only had 2 power supplies go bad in
all these years...and each one was well beyond my warranty deadline.

The most problematic item for me these days is IDE cables...ever since
the ATA100 standard. For some reason, they just go bad. In my mind,
they should NEVER go bad. But they do...just from use. Go figure!


Have a nice week...

Trent©

Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.

 

[Trent©]

Systems are using an ever-increasing amount of power, yet the average
generic power supply is still built around similar design to that used
several years ago and labeled as 250W. Historically we can see some of
these generics ran a 486 system fine, but the 486 might use 1/5 the power
of a decent modern system while the generic power supply has not increased
in true capacity by 5X... even ignoring the fact that a startling number
of them don't even have basic noise filtration or surge protection.

It IS important that one pay attention to the specs of WHATEVER he's
buying. All my cases are P4 certified.

Cetainly it can be too quickly suggested as the problem, but it seems to
be more common these days, one of the most common problems outside of a
motherboard misconfiguration, damage or defect.

IMHO, only the DISCUSSIONS seem to be more common.
Scenario...something doesn't work. Groups suggest...'try a new ps'.
Tries it...everything works again. Culprit? PS.

But...new power supply has new connectors. All kinds of components are
r&r'd...cables of all kinds are moved, etc.

So...what REALLY fixed the problem? Moreover, the old PS never gets
checked...spec'd out.

But, again...only the ps got replaced. So, of course, the ps solved
the problem.

Could be, but I suppose at a certain point I start assuming the user has
at least opened the case and looked around, wiggled a few cables and such,
we have to start somewhere in the whole troubleshooting process.

60%-70% of all hard drives RMA'd are found to be NOT defective.
Yet...these drives do not work for the owner when sent in. And they
DO work for the owner when he gets the new one back.

I feel blame on the power supply is on the same plateau.

Wouldn't that be most likely to occur with a generic power supply though?

No. Actually, I've only had a few problems lately...and its been with
the AMD chips...because there's no certification for their high-end
chips that's easy to advertise on the case literature. But I've never
had a problem with the P4-advertised cases.

Remember...we're not talkin' about building a server here. There IS a
difference in components...as we both know. But, for the average home
user, a generic ps has always worked fine for me.

Even a fancy-looking LED neon clear fan sheathed gold anodized aluminum
gee-whiz-bang $75 special may actually be a POS inside, relative to it's
wattage, construction relative to a major manufacturer's unit of same
rating. To me this misstating of capacity goes against industry standards
and should be illegal if it isn't already, which it very well may be, if
not now then in the future.

Again...yer certainly welcome to your opinion. But I've never heard
of ANYONE bench testing each power supply before they start building.
I know I never do. If its P4 rated, it suits my needs.

Certainly a generic power supply can work fine, but generally they're not
worth more than 300W, and a name-brand capable of 300W can be purchased
for $30... the gamble doesn't even have a good payoff if one "wins".

I strongly disagree.


Have a nice week...

Trent©

Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.

 

[~misfit~]

I strongly disagree.

How unusual

Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.

How adolescent.

 

[kony]

It IS important that one pay attention to the specs of WHATEVER he's
buying. All my cases are P4 certified.

That's not significant. Most if not ALL cases/PSU made during P4 era will
be claimed P4 certified. Even Intel's ATX12V spec is just a guideline,
not the actual schematics, component spec for any particular wattage unit
nor that unit's lifespan. 12V spec is +-10%, but would you consider such
a P4 certified supply a good one if it constantly had +10% to -10%, 2.4V
peak to peak ripple?

IMHO, only the DISCUSSIONS seem to be more common.
Scenario...something doesn't work. Groups suggest...'try a new ps'.
Tries it...everything works again. Culprit? PS.

Well given only those details it sure does seem like the PSU was the
problem. Perhaps it was a connector or whatever, but how much detail do
we want to get into, taking each post of problems and suggesting
out-of-round microns for a plug contact? It's true that too often I may
assume a system was "unchanged", it remained static and a fault developed.
I used to ask "what's changed since onset of problem", but after a certain
point I guess I leave it to the poster to mention what they feel is
significant. If they'd just installed Service Pack 85 and windows crashes
but they only mention their doubts about a power supply (motherboard
monitor) 12V reading, certainly the thread would be off to a bad start.

But...new power supply has new connectors. All kinds of components are
r&r'd...cables of all kinds are moved, etc.

So...what REALLY fixed the problem? Moreover, the old PS never gets
checked...spec'd out.

Some PSU faults are beyond the scopre of user's ability to troubleshoot or
equipment is too costly. We're both aware than in usenet it's VERY easy
to spend someone else's money, but IMHO, a good system is build out of
good components... seldom do I suggest replacing what would seem to be an
appropriate amperage name-brand power supply.

But, again...only the ps got replaced. So, of course, the ps solved
the problem.

But often users are instructed to strip system down to only minimal parts,
so that has similar potential. Would it make more sense then to suggest
the user completely uninstall the power supply from chassis then REinstall
it again? Perhaps we need a good FAQ that includes these basics that are
basic enough to be overlooked/assumed/etc.

60%-70% of all hard drives RMA'd are found to be NOT defective.
Yet...these drives do not work for the owner when sent in. And they
DO work for the owner when he gets the new one back.

Well I have no answer for that... if it makes a squealing sound or
generates a smart error or trouble code from manufacturer's diagnostics
I'd recommend backing it up and getting it RMA'd, but if the drive isn't
defective (or failed for *other* reason) then why the problem? It has
to be handled on a case-by-case basis... I'd like to think that your
60-705 figure of non-defect is only in general, not applicable to our
group... remember that many people need to be told what/where a hard drive
is and how to remove it, let aone knowing what usenet is except for that
"other" link on a Google search page where "real people have
conversations"... nevermind mentioning IRC.

I feel blame on the power supply is on the same plateau.

To some degree yes, but on the other hand you might just be in denial of
the situation with many generics.

No. Actually, I've only had a few problems lately...and its been with
the AMD chips...because there's no certification for their high-end
chips that's easy to advertise on the case literature. But I've never
had a problem with the P4-advertised cases.

It IS more likely with a generic because their wattage is overstated.
Some even claim amperages that the regulators alone cannot support and be
in-spec, nevermind the rest of the unit.

The problem with AMD chips is similar, when a unit is labeled to provide
"X" number of amps, but can't. Quite simply put, when a name-brand 300W
unit can power a system that a Generic 350W with higher 5V amps can't even
POST, something is wrong, and that something is most often the misrating
of the generic.

Remember...we're not talkin' about building a server here. There IS a
difference in components...as we both know. But, for the average home
user, a generic ps has always worked fine for me.

Actually I made no distinction whatsoever for a server vs. a PC, beyond
the amperage needed per components. It would be different if considering
redundant PSU, but for a single unit I demand a power supply that can work
24/7 under full load for years. That isn't all that hard to realize
either for someone who has spyware or (SETI/FAH/etc) screensavers, etc.,
until they turn that system off at night, IF they do. Basically, if a
system fails within 5 years with any extra maintenance needed beyond
cleaning the dust out (or possibly relubing those crap video card fans) I
wouldn't bother to build it. Perhaps that's just MY hobby, building
systems that are more than just rock-solid but with a huge margin. I want
a power supply that can support a video card swap or a couple more hard
drives, whatever is appropriate for the room in the given chassis, else
WHY have a big space-consuming chassis to begin with?

Again...yer certainly welcome to your opinion. But I've never heard
of ANYONE bench testing each power supply before they start building.
I know I never do. If its P4 rated, it suits my needs.

Then how could you know if generics are really suitable or just barely
working? When a motherboard fails, will you suspect the generic power
supply or just blame the board? Same goes for video card, hard drive,
etc.

I strongly disagree.

How can you disagree when you already stated that you don't test them?

 

[~misfit~]

How can you disagree when you already stated that you don't test them?

Ummm, it's Trent you're talking to.