CPU Core Voltage Too Low -> Crash?

[Don Cohen]

Your problem is interesting , ( more than just interesting for you of

course) .

Well hopefully others can learn from this mess; one of the useful aspects of
the web.

While I monitored my voltages I opened up every program that I could think
of , and no voltage drop in the core or any other voltages. Which leave me
to believe that MB voltages should not fluctuate with the opening of
programs. Jym

I appreciate that feedback.

As I just posted to Bob, the +2.5V, +3.3V and +5.0 readings were essentially
rock-solid while my VCore fluctuated 1.49V, 1.48V, 1.46V. Looking more and
more like a motherboard issue, apparently.

Don

 

[Bob Dietz]

Bob,




I got it from Best Buy; their return policy is 15 days, but as you suggest
they might be willing to swap one. I'll keep this in mind as a possibility.




Actually I was watching both the +2.5V and the +3.3V readings. The +2.5V
read as 2.46V and didn't budge at all. The +3.3V read at 3.29V virtually
all the time, with a very rare and brief drop to 3.27V. I just checked
again and the +5V stayed at 5.02V and didn't budge.

I guess your thinking is that if it were some other component it would drop
voltage across the board, whereas if it's only one voltage reading that's
varying, that has to be originating in the motherboard itself.

I hadn't considered that, but it does make sense.

Let me ask one follow-up question:

Assume for the moment that this is in fact a motherboard defect (presumably
in voltage regulation) that is causing these crashes. Consider this:

Starting from when I first bought this system 2 years ago, I (and a number
of others) have experienced random and episodic 'blackout' episodes. Here,
the LCD (DVI connection) would go completely black, and within 2 or 3
seconds at the most, would come back on. Nothing else occurred. No error
messages, no applications were effected, nothing. These have recurred
sporadically - once a week, once a month, once every few months. Always the
same. Trouble-shooting by me and others on the web never identified a
clear-cut cause. I just lived with it, since it was a minor annoyance and
seemingly harmless.

When my first reboot/crash occurred last month, it started the same way -
the LCD went completely black, but instead of just coming back on as it
usually did, the system just rebooted. It's as if whatever was causing
those 'blackouts' now worsened, and caused a reboot.

Or - whatever was (No longer 'is'?) causing those blackout was also stressing
one or more other components, one of which has become marginal and is now failing.

I was a mechanic for quite a few years. Intermittent problems are always a
night mare to resolve.

 

[Don Cohen]

Bob,

Or - whatever was (No longer 'is'?) causing those blackout was also stressing
one or more other components, one of which has become marginal and is now failing.

I was a mechanic for quite a few years. Intermittent problems are always a
night mare to resolve.

Ain't it the truth! And my hypothesis is almost impossible to prove, one
way or the other.

The relevance here is that now that my Gateway is technically out of
warrantee, and if the previous problem was arising from the same hardware
defect that now causes it to reboot, I would have some justification for
trying to get Gateway to cover it, even though out of warrantee now.

We'll see.

Thanks again for all the help.

Don

P.S. I disconnected power and data cables from both optical drives and
rebooted: same low, fluctuating VCore readings (rail readings just as
solid), same crash. That rules out these drives....

 

[Broomstick]

I didn't follow this thread from the start, but have you tried swapping the
power supply with a known good one?
I use Enlight power supply and the readings (with PC Probe; also with Aida)
are rock solid for all voltages, except for the +12V, which changes
occasionally but rarely. As I was writing this post, I opened up PC Probe
and see under the Voltage Monitor tab, 4 perfectly straight lines.

HTH and Have A Happy Day !
Hardi

As I just posted to Bob, the +2.5V, +3.3V and +5.0 readings were essentially
rock-solid while my VCore fluctuated 1.49V, 1.48V, 1.46V. Looking more and
more like a motherboard issue, apparently.

<snip>

 

[Don Cohen]

Hello Hardi,

I didn't follow this thread from the start, but have you tried swapping the
power supply with a known good one?
I use Enlight power supply and the readings (with PC Probe; also with Aida)
are rock solid for all voltages, except for the +12V, which changes
occasionally but rarely. As I was writing this post, I opened up PC Probe
and see under the Voltage Monitor tab, 4 perfectly straight lines.

It's been a long, complicated story, but replacing the power supply was
actually one of the first things I did. I had a 250W unit that came with
the system, and I bought an Antec 430W TruPower to replace it with. Didn't
help.

I guess there's always the outside possibility that the brand new Antec unit
was faulty, but my money's on the motherboard. I've been able to convince
Gateway as well, so a new one should be en route to me shortly.

Thanks for the post.

 

[Broomstick]

Hi Don,

Oh that is good news indeed !

I'd just like to share an experience I had last week. An image browsing
program (ACD see5) gave me BSODs telling me of hardware failure after using
it for sometime (about 2 to 5 minutes). But it wasn't hardware (I removed
everything but the vga card - and I still had BSODs). The solution in my
case was simply to uninstall and re-install the ACDsee program.

Best regards
Hardi

 

[Guest]

I am having similar problem's wih random crashes all indicating that a driver is the culprit causing page faults with multiple files at random sometimes blue screeen right away sometimes after a day or so
However I have now found that running on one 512 meg memory module out of the three i have, The System will run without any problems at all. It does not matter wich memory module i use as long as it is only one. Memtest indicates that all three memory modules are good. I built this system more than a year ago and it ran just fine untill the end of november
It has been frustrating as hell. But now it runs very well with one memory, but I would rather run with all three

I don.t know what the problem is but i suspect Microsof
I have two boot partitions running on twin 120 giga byt
western digital drives with a raid scsi interface configured striped
The second partition will run just fine with all three Memory's
The partition That is giving me trouble run's XP Pro, The second partition runs XP Home
Let me know what you find as i am interested Thank's Terr

 

[Guest]

Don
This whole problem brings back painful memories. I had very similar problems. Seemed like everything was going bad. The only thing I didn't pull out while trying various things was the primary hard drive. After all it had the operationg system and all my software. After trying about as many things as you I finally ran the manufactures free diagnostic software on the hard drive. That reported a serious problem and recommended I run the comprensive testing part of the program which would attempt to repair the problem. When I did that it reported an uncorrectable fatal error. The hard drive never booted again. I am not sure but think that was an 80 gig WD drive. The manufacture replaced the drive which was in warranty and the computer is back to perfect health now. I sure wish the hard drive had just died early on and saved me a lot of grief

Not long ago my second computer started going nuts on me. Testing also reported a bad hard drive. In that computer I have two removable drive trays. In checking I pulled the primary hard drive and put this tray into the second carrier. That fixed the problem. Turned out to be a bad removable hard drive carrier

Just wanted to give you my 2 cents worth in case you have not fully tested your primary hard drive

Doug

 

[Don Cohen]

Hi Doug,

Don,
This whole problem brings back painful memories. I had very similar

problems. Seemed like everything was going bad. The only thing I didn't
pull out while trying various things was the primary hard drive. After all
it had the operationg system and all my software. After trying about as
many things as you I finally ran the manufactures free diagnostic software
on the hard drive. That reported a serious problem and recommended I run
the comprensive testing part of the program which would attempt to repair
the problem. When I did that it reported an uncorrectable fatal error. The
hard drive never booted again. I am not sure but think that was an 80 gig
WD drive. The manufacture replaced the drive which was in warranty and the
computer is back to perfect health now. I sure wish the hard drive had just
died early on and saved me a lot of grief.

Not long ago my second computer started going nuts on me. Testing also

reported a bad hard drive. In that computer I have two removable drive
trays. In checking I pulled the primary hard drive and put this tray into
the second carrier. That fixed the problem. Turned out to be a bad
removable hard drive carrier.

Just wanted to give you my 2 cents worth in case you have not fully tested

your primary hard drive.


Thanks for the reply. Painful is definitely the right word here.

Your suggestion is quite appropriate. I didn't do it myself, but when I
brought it in to the local computer store to check the hardware, he said he
ran a full diagnostic from the drive's manufacturer, and it checked out.

The rest of the trouble-shooting points to a motherboard issue, and a new
one is en route. If that doesn't fix the problem, I'll either blow the dang
thing up, or download and run the diagnostic for the hard drive, as you
suggest. At this point, I'm really not sure which I'd rather do!

Thanks.

Don

 

[Guest]

Try booting on DOS for a while and see if it crashes. If the problem persists there's a big chance is a hardware problem

Also try to disable the ACPI BIOS at the Setup (sleep and CPU throttling) and within Windows . If the problem persists it is an ACPI related problem (hopefully you can run Windows without ACPI -- see below

Also, you can get Knoppix from the Internet and boot on it (a Linux version that is self contained on a CD and does not need to install on your disk). If it works without crashing, then you have a Windows problem. You can also disable the ACPI BIOS in knoppix by using knoppix apm=off no-hl

I had some bad random crashes with a Sony Vaio. Over time the problem became worse. Eventually the computer would not even boot up on Windows (actually, would not boot anything, since it would crash within a few seconds of booting). Apparently there is a defect on the motherboard (some claim is CPU issue, others an issue with capacitors) that grew worse over time -- after 2 years I couldn't use the laptop

Here's what I found, and you may want to check if this resolves your problem. It seems the problem is related to ACPI BIOS (the part of the computer that allows it to go to sleep or hibernate). I disabled ACPI support, and the laptop now is functioning fine

STEP 1: DISABLE ACPI AT THE BIOS SETUP LEVEL -- During the boot enter the machine setup. Often pressing F1, F2, F10, DEL, or ESC during boot brings up the BIOS setup screen. Disable all sleep features, including CPU throtling. Once you do this you should be able to run DOS and Windows in Safe Mode without the machine crashing

STEP2: DISABLE ACPI SUPPORT IN WINDOWS -- Go to Control Panel/System, and replace the ACPI BIOS. Don't let Windows detect the appropriate driver, but select to pick from the list. Use the SAFE BIOS from Windows. Once done, Windows will reboot, changing a large number of device drivers (it might have to reboot multiple times, and sometimes it takes a couple of minutes before it makes changes -- it's not frozen, just takes times). Once everything is done, the random crashes should disappear

 

[Don Cohen]

I appreciate your post and suggestions, Paulo.

I have been trouble-shooting this for many weeks now (unfortunately) and am
almost certain it's hardware. The biggest indicator of this is that it
crashed a few times when booting from the XP Boot CD in order to access the
Windows Recovery Console, but before it had even accessed the actual XP
partition.

That combined with the low and fluctuating CPU core voltages, with the
crashes occurring when the voltage was at its lowest, makes me pretty
confident this is a motherboard failure. A new motherboard from Gateway is
en route, and I'll know in a few days if I'm right.

If it crashes again, I'm going to blow it up!

Don

 

[Guest]

Just a few comments/observations

You have successfully been able to make the fault manifest when paging thru pictures rapidly

Perhaps trying some directx diagnostics tpo stress the video card some will also duplicate the problem

I am not sure how the power ditribution on the mainboard to AGP card slot is but I have had bad 3com nics take a computer down by overdrawing on the power

If you have a spare vid card, might want to try that before swapping the main board

----- Don Cohen wrote: ----

I appreciate your post and suggestions, Paulo

I have been trouble-shooting this for many weeks now (unfortunately) and a
almost certain it's hardware. The biggest indicator of this is that i
crashed a few times when booting from the XP Boot CD in order to access th
Windows Recovery Console, but before it had even accessed the actual X
partition

That combined with the low and fluctuating CPU core voltages, with th
crashes occurring when the voltage was at its lowest, makes me prett
confident this is a motherboard failure. A new motherboard from Gateway i
en route, and I'll know in a few days if I'm right

If it crashes again, I'm going to blow it up

Do

 

[Don Cohen]

Just a few comments/observations.

You have successfully been able to make the fault manifest when paging thru pictures rapidly.

Perhaps trying some directx diagnostics tpo stress the video card some

will also duplicate the problem.

I am not sure how the power ditribution on the mainboard to AGP card slot

is but I have had bad 3com nics take a computer down by overdrawing on the
power.

If you have a spare vid card, might want to try that before swapping the

main board.

Thanks for the post.

The first thing I did was replace the Power Supply. The second thing was a
new videocard. Neither fixed the problem, unfortunately.

If the new motherboard doesn't work, I'm going to blow it up!....

Don

 

[Guest]

This sounds very similier to my current problem. I have an old'ish system, 850 mhz Athlon T-Bird, that is the only thing that has been consistent through the problem. I have got new motherboard, PSU's, ram, sound cards, hard drives, cd-r drives, etc... etc... I have stressed/tested the CPU with every program imaginable, works perfect, calculated perfect every time, no BSOD, I have ram memtest86 for over a day straight, not a single error. The motherboard is new, I have tried old drivers with every component in my system, new drivers, practically all inbetween as well, still no change. When I start up certain programs, if I watch a dvd for more then 40 minutes, if I use word for more then 3 hours, I get a BSOD that fluctuates between PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA to the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (or however the exact wording is). I have already tried everything that has been suggested in this thread. This is a new install of windows, new hard drive, every thing here is nwe except for the cpu itself and one stick of ram (but both of those test perfectly). Some programs I can run for extended periods of time (many hours) before a BSOD, some programs, or browsing the I-Net will never cause a BSOD. I can cause a BSOD in a matter of moments, I know exactly how to cause it in many numerous ways, but there seems to be no corrolation at all, my voltage does not fluctuate, the tone of my computer does not change as I do anything, changeing many of the BIOS settings (within reason) does nothing. Now here is the kicker, its been doing this for almost two years now, I am more annoyed at my system then you could ever be at yours, I have come very close, multiple times, to damaging it. I should just break down and stop eating for a few months to afford a new CPU/MB/RAM to upgrade this thing to modern standards, but that would be difficult to do. Just so you know, there are people in even worse circumstances then you could possibly be in.

 

[Don Cohen]

I feel your pain, or at least some of it ;-)

Seriously, I do. These things can be just so infuriating, and consume 10x
the number of hours they're saving in other tasks.

If this new motherboard doesn't fix it, I may just have to blow it up!

If you have a cooperative local computer store, you might try swapping out
the CPU and/or RAM, and see if that fixes it. If they're cooperative,
they'll allow you to return what doesn't fix it, and keep what is.

Hope you can get your problem solved.

Good luck!


--

Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net

This sounds very similier to my current problem. I have an old'ish

system, 850 mhz Athlon T-Bird, that is the only thing that has been
consistent through the problem. I have got new motherboard, PSU's, ram,
sound cards, hard drives, cd-r drives, etc... etc... I have stressed/tested
the CPU with every program imaginable, works perfect, calculated perfect
every time, no BSOD, I have ram memtest86 for over a day straight, not a
single error. The motherboard is new, I have tried old drivers with every
component in my system, new drivers, practically all inbetween as well,
still no change. When I start up certain programs, if I watch a dvd for
more then 40 minutes, if I use word for more then 3 hours, I get a BSOD that
fluctuates between PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA to the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
(or however the exact wording is). I have already tried everything that has
been suggested in this thread. This is a new install of windows, new hard
drive, every thing here is nwe except for the cpu itself and one stick of
ram (but both of those test perfectly). Some programs I can run for
extended periods of time (many hours) before a BSOD, some programs, or
browsing the I-Net will never cause a BSOD. I can cause a BSOD in a matter
of moments, I know exactly how to cause it in many numerous ways, but there
seems to be no corrolation at all, my voltage does not fluctuate, the tone
of my computer does not change as I do anything, changeing many of the BIOS
settings (within reason) does nothing. Now here is the kicker, its been
doing this for almost two years now, I am more annoyed at my system then you
could ever be at yours, I have come very close, multiple times, to damaging
it. I should just break down and stop eating for a few months to afford a
new CPU/MB/RAM to upgrade this thing to modern standards, but that would be
difficult to do. Just so you know, there are people in even worse
circumstances then you could possibly be in.

 

[Guest]

I know you're getting a new motherboard, but humor me for a sec. Download SiSoft's Sandra. it's free, just do a search. Do the RAM benchmark test. I'm having a very similar problem on my 2nd computer, and when I tested the RAM with memtest86, it passed fine, but Sandra said it was performing at numbers way below spec. I just want to see if you have the same problem there. I too was starting to suspect a mobo problem, but now I am not so sure. I have the same seemingly random reboots as you, and I am fairly stumped. If you opt to blow it up, please let me know what explosives you used, so I can solve my problem accordingly
Thanks

 

[Guest]

Nope, no computer store in the area. I am one in one of the most backwards and out of date places that you could possibly be in the USA.

As for the other next post, I have also ran SiSandra before, my computer did exceptionally well, the usual for the things I have in it. It may just be a collection of parts I have that do not want to work well together. Individually they all test perfect, so who knows...

Almost two years and still going I have been dealing with this...

 

[Don Cohen]

Well, I tried. I downloaded, and when starting the install, it crashed when
I clicked to select the language (all within 3-5 minutes of booting). If I
feel lucky later, I'll try again.

I will keep this in mind if the motherboard fails, but I really find the
option to blow it up much more emotionally pleasing!

Don

I know you're getting a new motherboard, but humor me for a sec. Download

SiSoft's Sandra. it's free, just do a search. Do the RAM benchmark test.
I'm having a very similar problem on my 2nd computer, and when I tested the
RAM with memtest86, it passed fine, but Sandra said it was performing at
numbers way below spec. I just want to see if you have the same problem
there. I too was starting to suspect a mobo problem, but now I am not so
sure. I have the same seemingly random reboots as you, and I am fairly
stumped. If you opt to blow it up, please let me know what explosives you
used, so I can solve my problem accordingly.

 

[Lawrence]

Don, Where do you buy your CPU's and memory that they allow you to trry it
out and then take it back if you don't want it??
I sure wouldn't want to shop where you shop!!

Nope, no computer store in the area. I am one in one of the most

backwards and out of date places that you could possibly be in the USA.

As for the other next post, I have also ran SiSandra before, my computer

did exceptionally well, the usual for the things I have in it. It may just
be a collection of parts I have that do not want to work well together.
Individually they all test perfect, so who knows...

 

[Don Cohen]

Lawrence,

Don, Where do you buy your CPU's and memory that they allow you to trry it
out and then take it back if you don't want it??
I sure wouldn't want to shop where you shop!!

Well, this gets into a somewhat interesting almost philosophical question.
Almost all stores (Walmart, BestBuy, Staples, OfficeDepot, etc., in the
store or online) have a return period during which you can bring back
something that was purchased there for a full refund (sometimes with a
restocking fee, but not usually). I would imagine different stores and
products have different policies with respect to what happens to returned
goods, but I suspect some of it is repackaged somewhere and sold as new.
But this is a guess on my part. Obviously, there is a large amount of
returned goods in general (just look at the customer service lines at
Walmart and all the other stores) - I doubt that this stuff is thrown in the
trash.

So I guess my point is that I suspect that most likely we're all already
shopping at places that take it back if you don't want it. I'm not
proposing taking advantage of stores for our convenience, but product return
is a fact of life for whatever reasons the customer has.

In my particular case, the only part I tried with this arrangement with the
local computer store was a videocard. I had brought it to him, he did his
testing, and finding nothing, suggested we try this, offering to take back
the videocard if it didn't fix the problem (refunding the cost of the card,
but keeping a reasonable charge for his labor).

Don