Cool electronics with outside air via hose.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Skybuck Flying
  • Start date Start date
TVeblen said:
Seeing as it is summer here and obsessively hot and humid outside, not a day
goes by that I don't think about a way to pipe the hot air from 3 PCs
through a pipe and dump it outside.
I'll put that on my to-do list. Page 7.
It does seem a waste to buy electricity to run a few computers, which
heat up a room, and then have to buy more electricity to cool the room.
In winter it's not a total waste but in summer you wind up paying
twice to run the computers. Seems someone ought to invent something
like a house vacuum system so hoses could be connected to the wall and
heat generating devices. Cable boxes, TV's, monitors, refrigerators
etc. Plug in the AC cords, and the cooling hoses.
Cost effective, maybe.
Convenient? No
Feasible? Maybe
Maybe Doug Rye has an answer http://www.philliprye.com/
 
Michael said:
Do you really think that you can keep pulling air out, without
sucking hot outdoor air into the house?

Certainly not, but the air outside is usually cooler than the air in a room
with three computers (let's say 1kW). Actually pulling in air from outside
can solve heat problems. This is all under the condition that there's no
aircon in the building.
The negative pressure will pull
air in form anywhere it can, including a crawl space, and areas that
have been sprayed with pesticides.

Don't spray pesticides near your house if you don't want it inside, too. At
least not when your house has a "crawl space", i.e. is one of those cheap
(but overpriced) US buildings, which have no proper isolation, and are very
far from being airtight.
The outdoor air is humid, and could
lead to black mold problems, which can make you sick, or even kill you.

Black mold is mostly a problem when the dew point of the air *inside* is
above the wall temperature - i.e. in winter, with unaired rooms (high
humidity) and unisolated walls (cold). With the computers heating up air
inside (but not adding more humidity to it, like sweating humans would),
it's a non-issue. You can have summer black mold in tropical countries
where the bottom 2m in summer usually are so damp that it's fog everywhere.
Solution: Build house on stilts (then you don't have to crawl in your crawl
space), make sure you use tropical wood which resists the mushrooms.

Actually, controlled air-flow similar in spirit to this idea in server rooms
solves quite some problems, and reduce energy consumption (and is actually
state of the art). You cool down outside air with an aircon (say from 30°
to 20°, and reduce humidity), feed it through the fresh air channels
(that's also where the crew works), heat it up inside the servers to 50°C,
and then take it out through the backside channels. That way the aircon
removes only 1/3 of the thermal waste of the servers, whereas a closed
circuit airflow would require to cool the 50°C down to 20°C, and the normal
way things operate (with unordered racks and no air flow control), you even
need strong airflow at lower temperatures to achieve an intake temperature
of 20°C, since the thermal output dilutes the air in the whole server room.

In most circumstances, you can use ground water for the cooling, since most
non-tropical regions have average temperatures below 20°C, so all you need
are some water pumps. In winter, you can heat up entire office buildings
with your servers.

Scaling down that idea to three random computers in a room (e.g. one tower
under the desk, a laptop on the desk, and a HTPC in a rack full of other
equipment, which also dissipates heat) is far from trivial ;-).
 
It does seem a waste to buy electricity to run a few computers, which heat
up a room, and then have to buy more electricity to cool the room. In
winter it's not a total waste but in summer you wind up paying twice to run
the computers. Seems someone ought to invent something like a house vacuum
system so hoses could be connected to the wall and heat generating devices.

Why so complex. Someone should simply invent a computer that generates
cold rather than heat. You'd just have to switch from one system to the
other between summer and winter. After all, if computers are general
enough to replace stereos and TVs, why not go a bit further and replace
heaters and ACs as well? Imagine the benefits: you could grep through
your collection of past cold air...


Stefan
 
Last I knew .. condensation only occurs onto a cooler surface, when
it comes in contact with warmer, moisture-laden air. The inside of a
warm computer should
be the last place you would expect condensation.

-vs-

The problem is, you would have extreme variations of input air
temperature, which would lead to condensation. It might not be bad,
but ANY condensation in a PC is really bad. -Dave
 
Maybe you could use your head with brain connected? How big must the
hose be to get sufficent air flow? What would the rating of the
fan(s) have to be to move the air thru
those hoses at a sufficent air flow?
Note the longer the hoses, the greater the resistance is to a given
air flow.
How do you maximize laminar airflow for minimum resistance?

Skybuck is a notorious PC nincompoop. I doubt if he can wipe his arse
without getting shit on his nose.
 
Marty said:
Skybuck is a notorious PC nincompoop. I doubt if he can wipe his arse
without getting shit on his nose.

Which is why I'm surpriased so many people fell for it, and hence my
original reply to his question.
 
* Michael A. Terrell:
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. No pesticides
means no wood within a couple years.

Ever heard of bricks?

Benjamin
 
Stefan said:
Why so complex. Someone should simply invent a computer that generates
cold rather than heat. You'd just have to switch from one system to the
other between summer and winter. After all, if computers are general
enough to replace stereos and TVs, why not go a bit further and replace
heaters and ACs as well? Imagine the benefits: you could grep through
your collection of past cold air...

Stefan

How about an Acoustic Stirling Cycle Engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

Los Alamos National Laboratory: Acoustic Stirling Heat Engine Home
http://www.lanl.gov/mst/engine/

"The acoustic power can be used directly in acoustic refrigerators
or pulse-tube refrigerators to provide heat-driven refrigeration
with no moving parts"

Eric
 
* glenzabr@nospam:
You dont use bricks for framing!!!!!!

You mean roof framing? Yes, you use wood for that, but you don't need
any pesticides unless you live in a termite breed zone.

Window framing is done with bricks.

Benjamin
 
Eric said:
How about an Acoustic Stirling Cycle Engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

Los Alamos National Laboratory: Acoustic Stirling Heat Engine Home
http://www.lanl.gov/mst/engine/

"The acoustic power can be used directly in acoustic refrigerators
or pulse-tube refrigerators to provide heat-driven refrigeration
with no moving parts"

Eric
Here we go,
I think I'll get a radiator from a 56 Buick and the water pump and
make a water cooled system.
 
TVeblen said:
Typical wall construction in the US uses steel or wood studs, a sheathing
layer, a rain screen, then brick facade or stucco. I know that in some
European countries they do the entire wall in masonry, particularly in
buildings built pre-1950's. But in Florida, USA it will most likely be wood
frame and brick veneer.
Just being build next to my house: building of 2 shops
and 4 appartments, another with 4 appartments, and a ~40 houses
in one block.
block.
There is no timber to be found anywhere, but in the window- and doorframes.
This is how all new houses look here, wood is only ornamental.
We dont have termites, but the "boktor"(dutch name) is doing a nice
job of ruining old buildings. They realy like old churches and mills. :)
 
* glenzabr@nospam:
The framing or studs that are in your walls.

Oh, I see. I remember I saw that in the US houses consist of a "frame"
which gets "covered" with wood or sometimes with small bricks. And the
floor is made of wood, too.

Houses in Germany don't have such frames, the walls are usually bricks
(bigger bricks than the ones used in US houses) only. And the floor is
made of concrete.

Benjamin
 
* TVeblen:
Typical wall construction in the US uses steel or wood studs, a sheathing
layer, a rain screen, then brick facade or stucco.

I remember that I've seen that when I was in CA.
I know that in some
European countries they do the entire wall in masonry, particularly in
buildings built pre-1950's.

Not only in pre-1950 houses. In Germany, Austria, Switzerland and most
other mainland European countries (UK is different and more like the US
in their building style, though) houses are still made of bricks only
and with concrete floors. Wood usually can only be found on the roof frame.

Benjamin
 
Houses in Germany don't have such frames, the walls are usually bricks
(bigger bricks than the ones used in US houses) only. And the floor is
made of concrete.

That kind of construction would not be very good if you were in a
seismically unstable area, or an area subject to cyclonic wind loads. A
building must be able to flex.
 
glenzabr@nospam said:
What are your inner walls built of?
Light blocks of what we call "gasbeton"(airbubble filled),or metal
frame with chalk??? plates on it, anyway, no wood.
 
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