Cloned hdd not bootable

[bxf]

So should I infer from this that probably the only reason my new drive

did not boot after the restore was the fact that it was not made ACTIVE?

I'm not sure if that is "the only reason", but if you created partition
by PM (not marked active) and restored boot partition using Ghost, to
the same partition, it will be still left non-ACTIVE.

Restoring boot partition using Ghost, to empty (not partitioned) disk,
creates ACTIVE partition.

Interestingly, using WinXP Recovery Console you cannot mark partition
active (FIXBOOT or FIXMBR do not address that).

But booting from Win98SE boot floppy, you can FDISK and mark that
restored partition ACTIVE.

That is all useful info, Peter. Thanks. It confirms my suspicion that
my failure to mark the new C partition Active was an erroneous move.
The bootable PM disk I created (subsequent to the excercise being
discussed here) should enable me to set the ACTIVE attribute if I run
into a problem in that area again.

The main advantage with a more recent imager is that you can do
incremental backups which have some real advantages.

Yes, but then I would not be able to have all that I need (for my C
drive) on a SINGLE disk, true? Also, and perhaps for no justifiable
reason, I feel more comfortable with a self-contained backup, taken in
DOS. And, it really doesn't take all that long to back up 4Gb of data
(or 5Gb if I forget to turn off hibernation first) .

Actually, I had a hell of a time trying to get Ghost to burn,
until I replaced my 2X-Rw with a 4X+RW, which Ghost is
perfectly happy to write. Drove me crazy for quite some
time. TI won't write to either disk.

From the rescue CD or from TI installed ? And which version of TI, 8

is quite a bit better than previous versions, tho still with some real
downsides with specific hardware.

From TI 8 installed. My drive is a USB2 Lacie = NEC 3500. I'm not sure

if I'd tried using my Atapi Toshiba drive, but even if it had worked I
would not be satisfied because it would rewrite RW disks only at 1X, vs
4X for the LaCie, which averages over 500MB per minutes on the backup.

 

[Bob]

About time you confessed.

Resorting to editing my posts, are you.

Really lame.

You have lost all credibility. Time to bugger off.

---

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
--William Shakespeare; Henry VI, Act IV, Scene II

 

[Eric Gisin]

You have no sense of humour. Go play on the freeway.

 

[Bob]

You have no sense of humour. Go play on the freeway.

You have no sense. Go play in the sewer.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
--William Shakespeare; Henry VI, Act IV, Scene II

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed (e-mail address removed) wrote

I'm not sure if that is "the only reason", but if you created partition
by PM (not marked active) and restored boot partition using Ghost,
to the same partition, it will be still left non-ACTIVE.

Sure, but you would normally restore a partition to unallocated
space, not to a partition that you have created with PM.

Restoring boot partition using Ghost, to empty
(not partitioned) disk, creates ACTIVE partition.

Interestingly, using WinXP Recovery Console you cannot mark
partition active (FIXBOOT or FIXMBR do not address that).

Yeah, presumably the assumption was
that that is unlikely to go away by itself.

But booting from Win98SE boot floppy, you can
FDISK and mark that restored partition ACTIVE.

And there are a number of other ways to mark a partition active too.

That is all useful info, Peter. Thanks. It confirms my suspicion that
my failure to mark the new C partition Active was an erroneous move.

The main error was creating the partition with PM. If you had restored
to unallocated space, that problem would not have occurred.

The bootable PM disk I created (subsequent to the excercise
being discussed here) should enable me to set the ACTIVE
attribute if I run into a problem in that area again.

Yeah, tho I prefer to use the general purpose bootable
CDs and the variety of tools that come with those.

Yes, but then I would not be able to have all that
I need (for my C drive) on a SINGLE disk, true?

True, thats an alternative to your older approach.

Also, and perhaps for no justifiable reason, I feel
more comfortable with a self-contained backup,

Sure, thats certainly the lower risk approach.

taken in DOS.

No need for that anymore. The more modern approach is
to boot a full OS from the CD and do the backup from that.
That has lots of advantages, mainly you dont need to have
DOS drivers for all the hardware thats involved in the backup.

And its more convenient to have a general purpose bootable
CD with lots of tools on it that you can use if you want to say
run a diagnostic on the physical drive before deciding that its
passed its useby date and needs to be replaced etc.

And, it really doesn't take all that long to back up 4Gb
of data (or 5Gb if I forget to turn off hibernation first) .

Sure, but few have boot partitions that small anymore.
Mine is 30G currently and thats a little on the small side.
Even the HTPC/PVR machine has 20G.

From TI 8 installed. My drive is a USB2 Lacie = NEC 3500.

OK, it would be interesting to see what the bootable CD sees.
I'd be surprised if that hardware isnt supported at all.

I'm not sure if I'd tried using my Atapi Toshiba drive, but even if it had
worked
I would not be satisfied because it would rewrite RW disks only at 1X, vs
4X for the LaCie, which averages over 500MB per minutes on the backup.

I dont write images directly to DVD or CD much myself.

 

[bxf]

Sure, but you would normally restore a partition to unallocated
space, not to a partition that you have created with PM.

main error was creating the partition with PM. If you had restored
to unallocated space, that problem would not have occurred

Understood. I was not aware of this behaviour.


I prefer to use the general purpose bootable
CDs and the variety of tools that come with those

I presume you create this GPBCDs yourself, yes? Can you suggest a way I
can do this too, in the absence of a floppy drive?

No need for that anymore. The more modern approach is
to boot a full OS from the CD and do the backup from that

Which CD are we talking about here, the same GPBCD or a Windows CD?
And, isn't one of the advantages of Trueimage (and Ghost 9???) supposed
to be the fact that there is no need to go exit Windows to do the
backup?

And its more convenient to have a general purpose bootable
CD with lots of tools on it that you can use if you want to say
run a diagnostic on the physical drive before deciding that its
passed its useby date and needs to be replaced etc

Totally agree. Where do I get one (see question above)?

And, it really doesn't take all that long to back up 4Gb
of data (or 5Gb if I forget to turn off hibernation first) .

Sure, but few have boot partitions that small anymore.
Mine is 30G currently and thats a little on the small side.
Even the HTPC/PVR machine has 20G

Well, I intentionally keep it small, containing only Windows essentials
and Program Files. The idea is that all the interdependent stuff is
sitting together, and hence gets backup-up/restored as a unit, and
nothing ever goes out of sync. Works well for my purposes.

From TI 8 installed. My drive is a USB2 Lacie = NEC 3500.

OK, it would be interesting to see what the bootable CD sees.
I'd be surprised if that hardware isnt supported at all.

I forgot to mention previously that, unless I remember incorrectly, TI
does not create bootable backup disks, which is another reason I would
have stayed with Ghost 2003 even if TI managed to write to my disks..

 

[bxf]

....and why are my quotes not all coming out as quotes???

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed (e-mail address removed) wrote

I presume you create this GPBCDs yourself, yes?

Nope, I normally use one of the existing ones,
Bart PE, Knoppix, Ultimate Boot CD for dos
and Win and Super Win PE Plus etc.

Can you suggest a way I can do this
too, in the absence of a floppy drive?

You dont need that at all, just download
the iso, burn it to CD and boot it.

You dont even need a bios that can boot a CD either,
there's a boot loader that can do that if the bios cant.

Which CD are we talking about here, the same GPBCD or a Windows CD?

Varys. Its better to use the bootable CD that the imager produces in most
situations, tho the Super Win PE Plus does have ghost32 on it from memory.

And, isn't one of the advantages of Trueimage
(and Ghost 9???) supposed to be the fact that
there is no need to go exit Windows to do the backup?

Sure, but that was a comment about your reluctance
to use that approach with the boot partition.

Totally agree. Where do I get one (see question above)?

See above. I basically prefer the Ultimate Boot CDs
and Super Win PE Plus for most stuff, but thats mainly
because I'm not as fluent with knoppix as with win.

Sure, but few have boot partitions that small anymore.
Mine is 30G currently and thats a little on the small side.
Even the HTPC/PVR machine has 20G

Well, I intentionally keep it small, containing
only Windows essentials and Program Files.

I let it also have the basics like the temporary internet cache
and the OE folders with the machine I do email from as well.

The idea is that all the interdependent stuff is sitting
together, and hence gets backup-up/restored as a unit, and
nothing ever goes out of sync. Works well for my purposes.

Yes, I do that too with one machine, and thats
the one where 30G is about right size wise.

The HTPC/PVR machine could maybe scrape by with 12G but not 4G.

OK, it would be interesting to see what the bootable CD sees.
I'd be surprised if that hardware isnt supported at all.

I forgot to mention previously that, unless I remember incorrectly, TI
does not create bootable backup disks, which is another reason I would
have stayed with Ghost 2003 even if TI managed to write to my disks..

Not clear what you mean there. Do you mean it wont create
a single bootable DVD with the image of your boot drive on it ?

Dont see its any big deal to boot the TI rescue CD first before
inserting the DVD containing the image file if you ever do need
to use the image file for a restore if the hard drive dies completely.

Lot less farting around than getting what you need onto the
DVD with ghost 2003. In spades when the NIC isnt natively
supported by Ghost 2003. Thats the main area where ghost
2003 is a complete pain in the arse and I'd normally use the
ghost 9 bootable CD in that situation, even when restoring
a ghost 2003 image, because ghost 9 will restore older
version images and will restore Drive Image images too.

The main thing I dont like about Ghost 9 is that you cant CREATE
an image from the bootable CD, you have to install it first before you
can create an image, and thats very undesirable if you want to do a
quick safety image of a system before doing any work on it. TI handles
that much more elegantly. Cloning when upgrading the boot drive too,
effortless with TI, a complete pain in the arse with Ghost 9, essentially
because you cant do it from the booted CD.

 

[Rod Speed]

...and why are my quotes not all coming out as quotes???

Dunno, works fine for me with groups.google

 

[Rod Speed]

...and why are my quotes not all coming out as quotes???

You do realise that you need to hit the Show Options link and use
the Reply in there with groups.google to get the quoting dont you ?

 

[bxf]

You do realise that you need to hit the Show Options link and use
the Reply in there with groups.google to get the quoting dont you ?

No, I didn't know - I'm totally new to all this.

Strangely, when I used COPY/PASTE, the copied text sometimes came out
in blue in the post. This made me assume that I was doing things
more-or-less (but not completely) correctly.

Oh well, you learn something every day.

 

[bxf]

Nope, I normally use one of the existing ones,
Bart PE, Knoppix, Ultimate Boot CD for dos
and Win and Super Win PE Plus etc.


You dont need that at all, just download
the iso, burn it to CD and boot it.

Good to know. I'll check these out.

Yes, I do that too with one machine, and thats
the one where 30G is about right size wise.

The HTPC/PVR machine could maybe scrape by with 12G but not 4G.

I must admit I don't use my laptop for so many things. In fact, because
I work away from home, I don't even use the internet from it, so that
keeps my requirements down, I suppose.

Not clear what you mean there. Do you mean it wont create
a single bootable DVD with the image of your boot drive on it ?

Dont see its any big deal to boot the TI rescue CD first before
inserting the DVD containing the image file if you ever do need
to use the image file for a restore if the hard drive dies completely.

It's difficult to argue with that. As I've indicated in response to
your first post, I sometimes don't distinguish between practical and
academic objectives. I sometimes do something simply because I think it
is nice, clever, cute, whatever. But there's more.

One of the earlier frustrations I had with Ghost 2003 was its
insistence on giving me a stupid message that the image I was trying to
restore was not created by Ghost, whereas it certainly was (though I
did use Roxio to burn it). This made me go back to my earlier objective
of a bootable DVD which includes the backup image (I previously
abandoned this objective due to Ghost's refusal to burn to my 2X-RW
disks). Anyway, once I got this thing to work (using 4X+RW) I felt that
all the time and effort (A LOT of both!) paid off, and the concept
stuck with me.

I suppose in the end, though, I simply have no reason to change my
procedure - for now. When I find I can no longer fit everything on one
disk, or when things stop to work, I may have to redefine my objectives
and perhaps make some changes.

Lot less farting around than getting what you need onto the
DVD with ghost 2003.

Can't deny the farting around part in getting it to work in the first
place. I almost made a pledge to dedicate the rest of my life to
badmouth this product. However, to be fair, once I got it to do as I
wanted (using somebody else's DOS USB2 drivers), it all became very
convenient. I just have to start Ghost, click Backup, click, click,
click, and away we go.

Cloning when upgrading the boot drive too,
effortless with TI, a complete pain in the arse with Ghost 9, essentially
because you cant do it from the booted CD.

But I thought I understood (can't tell you why) that it was possible to
start GHOST 2003 from the CD, no? If so, why would you not be able to
clone from the booted CD?

The Ghost 2003 I have came bundled with an Iomega drive, and the Ghost
boot image is in fact an Iomega file, which includes USB drivers
intended to be used with the Iomega drive. I know these drivers do not
work with my USB2 DVD drive (except at USB1 speed), but I have no
reason to assume they don't work with an external HDD.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I must admit I don't use my laptop for so many things. In fact,
because I work away from home, I don't even use the internet
from it, so that keeps my requirements down, I suppose.

Yeah, the kitchen PC is closer to yours and its got the full
Office 2003 suite installed. Just one partition thats 4.5G and
quite a bit of free space still. It runs Access databases off the
main machine via the lan so doesnt have much data on it at all.

It's difficult to argue with that. As I've indicated in response
to your first post, I sometimes don't distinguish between
practical and academic objectives. I sometimes do something
simply because I think it is nice, clever, cute, whatever.

Yeah, I rather prefer the elegant solution myself,
as long as it doesnt severely restrict your choices.

In this case however its the elegant support for all the hardware
that I care more about than just having a single bootable CD/DVD.

I did basically go that route with Ghost 2003 and Drive Image 2002
myself at one time, basically used Bart's network boot system and
then just ran ghost or DI off a separate floppy once that had booted.

Dont use that anymore tho now that TI and Bart PE do
a much better job of support for the hardware and NICs.

But there's more.

One of the earlier frustrations I had with Ghost 2003
was its insistence on giving me a stupid message that the
image I was trying to restore was not created by Ghost,
whereas it certainly was (though I did use Roxio to burn it).

OK, I mostly used Drive Image 2002 thru that era.

The Ghost 2003 user interface was rather more irritating and
not so intuitive and it had some real quirks like you mentioned.

This made me go back to my earlier objective of a bootable
DVD which includes the backup image (I previously abandoned
this objective due to Ghost's refusal to burn to my 2X-RW disks).

Yeah, I basically gave up on Ghost 2003 for direct burning to CD
and DVD, too fussy about the hardware and media for my taste.

I've only used TI 8 much for that and I dont burn directly to DVD much.

Anyway, once I got this thing to work (using 4X+RW)
I felt that all the time and effort (A LOT of both!) paid
off, and the concept stuck with me.

I suppose in the end, though, I simply have no reason to change
my procedure - for now. When I find I can no longer fit everything
on one disk, or when things stop to work, I may have to redefine
my objectives and perhaps make some changes.

Yeah, and I sometimes just decide that I've wasted enough time
already and keep using what does work, even if its not ideal.

The main reason I changed over to TI was because I do a lot more
over the lan than I do directly to DVD burner and TI is much better
for that, particularly being able to create an image from the bootable
CD. Ghost 9 cant even do that at all, it has to be installed first.

Can't deny the farting around part in getting it to work in the
first place. I almost made a pledge to dedicate the rest of
my life to badmouth this product. However, to be fair, once
I got it to do as I wanted (using somebody else's DOS USB2
drivers), it all became very convenient. I just have to start
Ghost, click Backup, click, click, click, and away we go.

Yeah, and I often decide that its a challenge to get
it done cleanly, and wont give up till I've achieved it.

The main reason I've given up on the dos approach is that
its always going to have that major downside, the need for
a dos driver for the less than bog standard hardware.

Thats the main advantage of using PE instead of dos,
the driver is guaranteed to be available since its Win.

Corse one downside with the PE route is that the system
that uses it, Ghost 9, has the stupid design decision that
doesnt allow image creation from the booted PE CD.

But I thought I understood (can't tell you why) that it
was possible to start GHOST 2003 from the CD, no?
Yes.

If so, why would you not be able to clone from the booted CD?

Yes. You just get rather more capability with TI 8 than ghost 2003.

Ghost 2003 has some real downsides for drive cloning.

The Ghost 2003 I have came bundled with an Iomega drive, and
the Ghost boot image is in fact an Iomega file, which includes USB
drivers intended to be used with the Iomega drive. I know these
drivers do not work with my USB2 DVD drive (except at USB1 speed),
but I have no reason to assume they don't work with an external HDD.

Sure, but I prefer the more elegant approach of native
drivers for stuff like USB2 support, and avoid dos entirely.

 

[bxf]

Well Rod, You've talked me into it. I concede. I will re-evaluate TI8,
single bootable DVD or not!

Thanks for all the info and the conversation.

 

[Rod Speed]

Well Rod, You've talked me into it. I concede.
I will re-evaluate TI8, single bootable DVD or not!

Thanks for all the info and the conversation.

No problem, thats what these tech groups are all about.