Cloned Additonal Hard Drive Not Recognized

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

As soon as my new HDD comes in hopefully sometime this week I will post
back. As I am not all sure what some of my notes indicate, which are
contrary to what you have indicated.

When I connect two HDD's using Cable Select and check the BIOS location
the Primary Master is in the Middle connection and the Primary Slave is at
the End connection.

I just double checked what I said above to be sure I was correct. I
connected the good HDD to the end position and the bad HDD to the middle
position and hit F2 to check the BIOS before boot up. The BIOS did not
detect either drive, Master or Slave. I suppose the reason being was that
the bad HDD was in the middle connection, which in my system for some reason
is the Master instead of Slave, and it could not go further in detecting the
good HDD at the end connection. Thank goodness when I disconnected the bad
HDD and with the good HDD connected at the end position everything
afterwards booted fine.

Anyway I wanted to advise you of this ASAP in case you had any prior
comments about the above.

Thanks again,

Tom

Hi Anna:

I have ordered a new WD HHD the same as I currently have (WD2500BB 250
GB).

I think that the existing HD should be identified as the Primary Master
and the new HHD to be cloned should be identified as the Primary Slave.
Just
to be sure please tell me where the Jumper pins should be on both. Also
what
position on the IDE cable should each HHD be i.e. Middle or End.

The reason that I ask the cable position is that I have read where the
middle connector is black and the end connector is gray at the WD website.
However, the IDE cable in my Sony the connector cables are just opposite.
The black connector is in the middle and the end connector is gray. What
difference does it make as to the color rather than the location?

I just want to be sure that I have the new HHD properly connected for
Automatic cloning with Acronis.

I know that I have asked a lot of you in this and the preceding postings.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom:
It's probably best to use the Cable Select jumper position for both HDDs.
Don't be concerned with the color of the connectors on the IDE data (ribbon)
cable. As you suspect, it's their position that's important.

The HDD connected to the *end* connector will serve as Primary Master.
Presumably you'll connect your current HDD containing the OS and all data to
that connector.

The HDD connected to the *middle* connector will serve as Primary Slave. So
you'll be connecting your new HDD to that connector.

You probably know this already but in case not, here's the link to the
jumper settings for your HDDs...
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=932&p_created=#jumper
As you will note the setting for CS are jumper positions 1 & 2.

I should mention that on some systems - usually containing a very old
motherboard - we experienced a number of systems that balked at drives
connected (jumpered) CS although (supposedly) they technically met the
specifications for accommodating that jumpered configuration. So the user
was forced to use the Master/Slave jumper positions rather than CS. However
as I recall we never ran into that problem with Sony machines. They behaved
very properly in that respect.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Tom:
It's probably best to use the Cable Select jumper position for both HDDs.
Don't be concerned with the color of the connectors on the IDE data
(ribbon)
cable. As you suspect, it's their position that's important.

The HDD connected to the *end* connector will serve as Primary Master.
Presumably you'll connect your current HDD containing the OS and all data
to
that connector.

The HDD connected to the *middle* connector will serve as Primary Slave.
So
you'll be connecting your new HDD to that connector.

You probably know this already but in case not, here's the link to the
jumper settings for your HDDs...
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=932&p_created=#jumper
As you will note the setting for CS are jumper positions 1 & 2.

I should mention that on some systems - usually containing a very old
motherboard - we experienced a number of systems that balked at drives
connected (jumpered) CS although (supposedly) they technically met the
specifications for accommodating that jumpered configuration. So the user
was forced to use the Master/Slave jumper positions rather than CS.
However
as I recall we never ran into that problem with Sony machines. They
behaved
very properly in that respect.
Anna

Hi Anna:

As soon as my new HDD comes in hopefully sometime this week I will post
back. As I am not all sure what some of my notes indicate, which are
contrary to what you have indicated.

When I connect two HDD's using Cable Select and check the BIOS location
the Primary Master is in the Middle connection and the Primary Slave is at
the End connection.

I just double checked what I said above to be sure I was correct. I
connected the good HDD to the end position and the bad HDD to the middle
position and hit F2 to check the BIOS before boot up. The BIOS did not
detect either drive, Master or Slave. I suppose the reason being was that
the bad HDD was in the middle connection, which in my system for some
reason
is the Master instead of Slave, and it could not go further in detecting
the
good HDD at the end connection. Thank goodness when I disconnected the bad
HDD and with the good HDD connected at the end position everything
afterwards booted fine.

Anyway I wanted to advise you of this ASAP in case you had any prior
comments about the above.

Thanks again,

Tom

Tom:
First of all it's not unusual for a system to abort the boot process when it
detects a connected defective HDD, even if the latter is the secondary, and
not the boot drive in the system and all connected HDDs have been properly
jumpered/connected. We have experienced this a number of times in the
PATA-IDE environment. I would guess that was at the root of the
failure-to-boot problem you previously experienced.

Keeping in mind that we're talking about a Cable Select jumper configuration
in the following...

Let's assume you have two non-defective HDDs (as you will have shortly); one
HDD serving at the boot drive, the other connected as the secondary HDD.
And, of course, your BIOS HDD boot priority order would reflect a first boot
to the bootable HDD. Standard operating procedure, right?

You *could* (in most cases) use the middle connector on the IDE data cable
to connect the boot drive and the end connector to the secondary HDD. In
most (but not *all*) cases the system will boot & function without problems
and the secondary HDD will be detected & functional in all respects. The PC
user would not detect anything amiss.

What has happened re the preceding scenario is that the boot drive is, in
effect, connected to the system as a Slave, and the secondary HDD is the
Master. As I've indicated, in most cases there will be no adverse effect on
the system performance-wise.

But for a variety of reasons which we need not go into now, this is not good
practice. Simply stated it is *always* wise to connect your PATA boot drive
as Master (on the primary IDE channel) and your secondary HDD as Slave to
the Master. So this would entail connecting the boot drive to the end
connector of the IDE data cable and the secondary HDD to the middle
connector of that data cable. Again, we're talking about a CS configuration.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

When I use Cable Select and connect my current OS HDD, which I assume is
my bootable HDD, to the IDE cable end position it appears in my BIOS as the
Primary Slave with the other HDD connected in the middle. My BIOS for some
reason always detects the Primary Master in the middle position when two
HDD's are connected.

The only way to connect my OS HDD as the Primary Master when two HDD's are
connected is to put it in the middle position according to the BIOS.

When using Cable Select if I put the OS HHD at the end of cable and the
new HDD in the middle my BIOS will indicate the OS HHD as Primary Slave. The
way that I have identified the HHD is by their serial number that appears in
the BIOS. The boot drive is my current OS HDD isn't it? I assume that it is.

Again I can't get the HDD connected to the end position when two HHD's are
connected to appear as Primary Master using Cable Select.

It is wrong for HDD's to appear as I have described isn't it or am I
missing something? If so is there anything that I can do to correct?

Hopefully I have explained my current situation and what I am faced with.
I just don't want to ruin a new HHD....

Tom

P.S. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but as I mentioned
before, the end connector is gray and not black and the middle connector is
black not gray as they are outlined in WD instructions, For some reason on
this Sony computer the IDE cable connectors are not color coded properly for
their position.

Tom:
It's probably best to use the Cable Select jumper position for both HDDs.
Don't be concerned with the color of the connectors on the IDE data
(ribbon)
cable. As you suspect, it's their position that's important.

The HDD connected to the *end* connector will serve as Primary Master.
Presumably you'll connect your current HDD containing the OS and all data
to
that connector.

The HDD connected to the *middle* connector will serve as Primary Slave.
So
you'll be connecting your new HDD to that connector.

You probably know this already but in case not, here's the link to the
jumper settings for your HDDs...
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=932&p_created=#jumper
As you will note the setting for CS are jumper positions 1 & 2.

I should mention that on some systems - usually containing a very old
motherboard - we experienced a number of systems that balked at drives
connected (jumpered) CS although (supposedly) they technically met the
specifications for accommodating that jumpered configuration. So the user
was forced to use the Master/Slave jumper positions rather than CS.
However
as I recall we never ran into that problem with Sony machines. They
behaved
very properly in that respect.
Anna

Hi Anna:

As soon as my new HDD comes in hopefully sometime this week I will post
back. As I am not all sure what some of my notes indicate, which are
contrary to what you have indicated.

When I connect two HDD's using Cable Select and check the BIOS location
the Primary Master is in the Middle connection and the Primary Slave is at
the End connection.

I just double checked what I said above to be sure I was correct. I
connected the good HDD to the end position and the bad HDD to the middle
position and hit F2 to check the BIOS before boot up. The BIOS did not
detect either drive, Master or Slave. I suppose the reason being was that
the bad HDD was in the middle connection, which in my system for some
reason
is the Master instead of Slave, and it could not go further in detecting
the
good HDD at the end connection. Thank goodness when I disconnected the bad
HDD and with the good HDD connected at the end position everything
afterwards booted fine.

Anyway I wanted to advise you of this ASAP in case you had any prior
comments about the above.

Thanks again,

Tom

Tom:
First of all it's not unusual for a system to abort the boot process when it
detects a connected defective HDD, even if the latter is the secondary, and
not the boot drive in the system and all connected HDDs have been properly
jumpered/connected. We have experienced this a number of times in the
PATA-IDE environment. I would guess that was at the root of the
failure-to-boot problem you previously experienced.

Keeping in mind that we're talking about a Cable Select jumper configuration
in the following...

Let's assume you have two non-defective HDDs (as you will have shortly); one
HDD serving at the boot drive, the other connected as the secondary HDD.
And, of course, your BIOS HDD boot priority order would reflect a first boot
to the bootable HDD. Standard operating procedure, right?

You *could* (in most cases) use the middle connector on the IDE data cable
to connect the boot drive and the end connector to the secondary HDD. In
most (but not *all*) cases the system will boot & function without problems
and the secondary HDD will be detected & functional in all respects. The PC
user would not detect anything amiss.

What has happened re the preceding scenario is that the boot drive is, in
effect, connected to the system as a Slave, and the secondary HDD is the
Master. As I've indicated, in most cases there will be no adverse effect on
the system performance-wise.

But for a variety of reasons which we need not go into now, this is not good
practice. Simply stated it is *always* wise to connect your PATA boot drive
as Master (on the primary IDE channel) and your secondary HDD as Slave to
the Master. So this would entail connecting the boot drive to the end
connector of the IDE data cable and the secondary HDD to the middle
connector of that data cable. Again, we're talking about a CS configuration.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Tom:
First of all it's not unusual for a system to abort the boot process when
it
detects a connected defective HDD, even if the latter is the secondary,
and
not the boot drive in the system and all connected HDDs have been properly
jumpered/connected. We have experienced this a number of times in the
PATA-IDE environment. I would guess that was at the root of the
failure-to-boot problem you previously experienced.

Keeping in mind that we're talking about a Cable Select jumper
configuration
in the following...

Let's assume you have two non-defective HDDs (as you will have shortly);
one
HDD serving at the boot drive, the other connected as the secondary HDD.
And, of course, your BIOS HDD boot priority order would reflect a first
boot
to the bootable HDD. Standard operating procedure, right?

You *could* (in most cases) use the middle connector on the IDE data cable
to connect the boot drive and the end connector to the secondary HDD. In
most (but not *all*) cases the system will boot & function without
problems
and the secondary HDD will be detected & functional in all respects. The
PC
user would not detect anything amiss.

What has happened re the preceding scenario is that the boot drive is, in
effect, connected to the system as a Slave, and the secondary HDD is the
Master. As I've indicated, in most cases there will be no adverse effect
on
the system performance-wise.

But for a variety of reasons which we need not go into now, this is not
good
practice. Simply stated it is *always* wise to connect your PATA boot
drive
as Master (on the primary IDE channel) and your secondary HDD as Slave to
the Master. So this would entail connecting the boot drive to the end
connector of the IDE data cable and the secondary HDD to the middle
connector of that data cable. Again, we're talking about a CS
configuration.
Anna

Hi Anna:

When I use Cable Select and connect my current OS HDD, which I assume is
my bootable HDD, to the IDE cable end position it appears in my BIOS as
the
Primary Slave with the other HDD connected in the middle. My BIOS for some
reason always detects the Primary Master in the middle position when two
HDD's are connected.

The only way to connect my OS HDD as the Primary Master when two HDD's
are
connected is to put it in the middle position according to the BIOS.

When using Cable Select if I put the OS HHD at the end of cable and the
new HDD in the middle my BIOS will indicate the OS HHD as Primary Slave.
The
way that I have identified the HHD is by their serial number that appears
in
the BIOS. The boot drive is my current OS HDD isn't it? I assume that it
is.

Again I can't get the HDD connected to the end position when two HHD's
are
connected to appear as Primary Master using Cable Select.

It is wrong for HDD's to appear as I have described isn't it or am I
missing something? If so is there anything that I can do to correct?

Hopefully I have explained my current situation and what I am faced with.
I just don't want to ruin a new HHD....

Tom

P.S. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but as I mentioned
before, the end connector is gray and not black and the middle connector
is
black not gray as they are outlined in WD instructions, For some reason on
this Sony computer the IDE cable connectors are not color coded properly
for
their position.

Tom:
With respect to this issue, all I can tell you based upon our experience
with a wide variety of PCs is that when two PATA HDDs properly jumpered for
Cable Select are properly connected to the IDE data cable to the Primary IDE
channel, the HDD connected to the end connector is designated by the system
as Primary Master and the HDD connected to the middle connector as Primary
Slave. We're naturally assuming that all involved components are
non-defective, i.e., the motherboard's IDE channel, the IDE data cable, and
both HDDs. And that the proper connections have been made.

Generally speaking we have found that the three connectors on the IDE data
cable are blue, black, and gray; the blue connector usually connected to the
IDE channel, the black connector being the middle connector, and the gray
connector the end connector. But we have come across a sizeable number of
data cables with different color combinations.

As I've previously indicated it is the *position* of the data cable
connector (middle or end) and not the color of the connector, that
determines whether the system will designate the attached HDD as either
Master or Slave when the HDDs are jumpered CS. So that the HDD connected to
the end connector is designated Master, while the HDD connected to the
middle connector is designated Slave.

As I believe I may have previously mentioned - should a user be working with
a single HDD (containing the bootable OS) jumpered CS and connects the drive
to the middle connector on the IDE data cable the system will detect that
drive as a Slave. Generally speaking and as a practical matter there's
usually no harm in that configuration and by & large we've found no
discernable effect on performance, but it's better practice (for a number of
reasons) to connect the drive to the end connector where it will be
designated as Master. However, on the other hand, we have come across a
number of motherboards who will balk at booting a HDD in the Slave position.

I honestly don't know why you're experiencing the situation you describe. It
might be worthwhile (assuming you haven't done so already) to contact Sony
tech support to see if they can shed some light on this. In any event
there's really nothing to be concerned about re misconfiguring the HDD
connections; doing so would have no effect on causing a non-defective HDD to
become defective or "ruining" it.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

I suppose you have gathered by now that the only time that I have two
HDD's connected is during the cloning process and this is correct. I never
have two HDD's connected otherwise.

Again in reviewing my notes for past cloning using CS I have always had to
connect the current OS HDD in the middle position to get it to appear as
Primary Master. Otherwise it appears as Primary Slave. I therefore have had
to connect the new HDD to the end position where it will appear as Primary
Slave.

Using the above procedures for past cloning I have never had a problem
until this last time when I did not disconnect the cloned HDD immediately
afterwards upon shutdown. And of course after I did not disconnect and
rebooted I could not get the cloned HDD to appear as a disk drive even
though the BIOS indicated it as Primary Slave. As far as I know this cloned
HDD was not defective in any way prior to my cloning it. I might add that my
normal connections for the single OS HDD is to connect it to the IDE cable
end position and then it does appear in BIOS as Primary Master and this is
the way that I currently have it.

In reviewing my notes I always ran a scandisk on the currently installed
HDD prior to cloning. Next after connecting the new HDD I formatted it prior
to cloning. I did neither of these processes in my last clone attempt and do
not know if by not doing so it contributed to the cloning problem that I
encountered.

Based upon all this do you have any recommendations using the CS with
Jumper pins in 1 & 2 position to use when I get the new HDD? If not, I am
going to try once again using the same CS connection procedures I have used
in the past including the checkdsk on OS HDD and format new HDD as mentioned
above.

Again I appreciate all your postings in this regards,

Tom

P.S. I just hope that I haven't caused something with my motherboard that
will cause my new HDD not to appear as I disk drive upon initial boot. I
must have something that is not right somewhere for the HDD's not to appear
correct using the CS.

Tom:
First of all it's not unusual for a system to abort the boot process when
it
detects a connected defective HDD, even if the latter is the secondary,
and
not the boot drive in the system and all connected HDDs have been properly
jumpered/connected. We have experienced this a number of times in the
PATA-IDE environment. I would guess that was at the root of the
failure-to-boot problem you previously experienced.

Keeping in mind that we're talking about a Cable Select jumper
configuration
in the following...

Let's assume you have two non-defective HDDs (as you will have shortly);
one
HDD serving at the boot drive, the other connected as the secondary HDD.
And, of course, your BIOS HDD boot priority order would reflect a first
boot
to the bootable HDD. Standard operating procedure, right?

You *could* (in most cases) use the middle connector on the IDE data cable
to connect the boot drive and the end connector to the secondary HDD. In
most (but not *all*) cases the system will boot & function without
problems
and the secondary HDD will be detected & functional in all respects. The
PC
user would not detect anything amiss.

What has happened re the preceding scenario is that the boot drive is, in
effect, connected to the system as a Slave, and the secondary HDD is the
Master. As I've indicated, in most cases there will be no adverse effect
on
the system performance-wise.

But for a variety of reasons which we need not go into now, this is not
good
practice. Simply stated it is *always* wise to connect your PATA boot
drive
as Master (on the primary IDE channel) and your secondary HDD as Slave to
the Master. So this would entail connecting the boot drive to the end
connector of the IDE data cable and the secondary HDD to the middle
connector of that data cable. Again, we're talking about a CS
configuration.
Anna

Hi Anna:

When I use Cable Select and connect my current OS HDD, which I assume is
my bootable HDD, to the IDE cable end position it appears in my BIOS as
the
Primary Slave with the other HDD connected in the middle. My BIOS for some
reason always detects the Primary Master in the middle position when two
HDD's are connected.

The only way to connect my OS HDD as the Primary Master when two HDD's
are
connected is to put it in the middle position according to the BIOS.

When using Cable Select if I put the OS HHD at the end of cable and the
new HDD in the middle my BIOS will indicate the OS HHD as Primary Slave.
The
way that I have identified the HHD is by their serial number that appears
in
the BIOS. The boot drive is my current OS HDD isn't it? I assume that it
is.

Again I can't get the HDD connected to the end position when two HHD's
are
connected to appear as Primary Master using Cable Select.

It is wrong for HDD's to appear as I have described isn't it or am I
missing something? If so is there anything that I can do to correct?

Hopefully I have explained my current situation and what I am faced with.
I just don't want to ruin a new HHD....

Tom

P.S. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but as I mentioned
before, the end connector is gray and not black and the middle connector
is
black not gray as they are outlined in WD instructions, For some reason on
this Sony computer the IDE cable connectors are not color coded properly
for
their position.

Tom:
With respect to this issue, all I can tell you based upon our experience
with a wide variety of PCs is that when two PATA HDDs properly jumpered for
Cable Select are properly connected to the IDE data cable to the Primary IDE
channel, the HDD connected to the end connector is designated by the system
as Primary Master and the HDD connected to the middle connector as Primary
Slave. We're naturally assuming that all involved components are
non-defective, i.e., the motherboard's IDE channel, the IDE data cable, and
both HDDs. And that the proper connections have been made.

Generally speaking we have found that the three connectors on the IDE data
cable are blue, black, and gray; the blue connector usually connected to the
IDE channel, the black connector being the middle connector, and the gray
connector the end connector. But we have come across a sizeable number of
data cables with different color combinations.

As I've previously indicated it is the *position* of the data cable
connector (middle or end) and not the color of the connector, that
determines whether the system will designate the attached HDD as either
Master or Slave when the HDDs are jumpered CS. So that the HDD connected to
the end connector is designated Master, while the HDD connected to the
middle connector is designated Slave.

As I believe I may have previously mentioned - should a user be working with
a single HDD (containing the bootable OS) jumpered CS and connects the drive
to the middle connector on the IDE data cable the system will detect that
drive as a Slave. Generally speaking and as a practical matter there's
usually no harm in that configuration and by & large we've found no
discernable effect on performance, but it's better practice (for a number of
reasons) to connect the drive to the end connector where it will be
designated as Master. However, on the other hand, we have come across a
number of motherboards who will balk at booting a HDD in the Slave position.

I honestly don't know why you're experiencing the situation you describe. It
might be worthwhile (assuming you haven't done so already) to contact Sony
tech support to see if they can shed some light on this. In any event
there's really nothing to be concerned about re misconfiguring the HDD
connections; doing so would have no effect on causing a non-defective HDD to
become defective or "ruining" it.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Tom:
With respect to this issue, all I can tell you based upon our experience
with a wide variety of PCs is that when two PATA HDDs properly jumpered
for
Cable Select are properly connected to the IDE data cable to the Primary
IDE
channel, the HDD connected to the end connector is designated by the
system
as Primary Master and the HDD connected to the middle connector as Primary
Slave. We're naturally assuming that all involved components are
non-defective, i.e., the motherboard's IDE channel, the IDE data cable,
and
both HDDs. And that the proper connections have been made.

Generally speaking we have found that the three connectors on the IDE data
cable are blue, black, and gray; the blue connector usually connected to
the
IDE channel, the black connector being the middle connector, and the gray
connector the end connector. But we have come across a sizeable number of
data cables with different color combinations.

As I've previously indicated it is the *position* of the data cable
connector (middle or end) and not the color of the connector, that
determines whether the system will designate the attached HDD as either
Master or Slave when the HDDs are jumpered CS. So that the HDD connected
to
the end connector is designated Master, while the HDD connected to the
middle connector is designated Slave.

As I believe I may have previously mentioned - should a user be working
with
a single HDD (containing the bootable OS) jumpered CS and connects the
drive
to the middle connector on the IDE data cable the system will detect that
drive as a Slave. Generally speaking and as a practical matter there's
usually no harm in that configuration and by & large we've found no
discernable effect on performance, but it's better practice (for a number
of
reasons) to connect the drive to the end connector where it will be
designated as Master. However, on the other hand, we have come across a
number of motherboards who will balk at booting a HDD in the Slave
position.

I honestly don't know why you're experiencing the situation you describe.
It
might be worthwhile (assuming you haven't done so already) to contact Sony
tech support to see if they can shed some light on this. In any event
there's really nothing to be concerned about re misconfiguring the HDD
connections; doing so would have no effect on causing a non-defective HDD
to
become defective or "ruining" it.
Anna

Hi Anna:

I suppose you have gathered by now that the only time that I have two
HDD's connected is during the cloning process and this is correct. I never
have two HDD's connected otherwise.

Again in reviewing my notes for past cloning using CS I have always had
to
connect the current OS HDD in the middle position to get it to appear as
Primary Master. Otherwise it appears as Primary Slave. I therefore have
had
to connect the new HDD to the end position where it will appear as Primary
Slave.

Using the above procedures for past cloning I have never had a problem
until this last time when I did not disconnect the cloned HDD immediately
afterwards upon shutdown. And of course after I did not disconnect and
rebooted I could not get the cloned HDD to appear as a disk drive even
though the BIOS indicated it as Primary Slave. As far as I know this
cloned
HDD was not defective in any way prior to my cloning it. I might add that
my
normal connections for the single OS HDD is to connect it to the IDE cable
end position and then it does appear in BIOS as Primary Master and this is
the way that I currently have it.

In reviewing my notes I always ran a scandisk on the currently installed
HDD prior to cloning. Next after connecting the new HDD I formatted it
prior
to cloning. I did neither of these processes in my last clone attempt and
do
not know if by not doing so it contributed to the cloning problem that I
encountered.

Based upon all this do you have any recommendations using the CS with
Jumper pins in 1 & 2 position to use when I get the new HDD? If not, I am
going to try once again using the same CS connection procedures I have
used
in the past including the checkdsk on OS HDD and format new HDD as
mentioned
above.

Again I appreciate all your postings in this regards,

Tom

P.S. I just hope that I haven't caused something with my motherboard that
will cause my new HDD not to appear as I disk drive upon initial boot. I
must have something that is not right somewhere for the HDD's not to
appear
correct using the CS.

Tom:
Actually I hadn't realized that you internally-connected the secondary HDD
*only* for purposes of the disk-cloning operation. I just (mistakenly)
assumed that both HDDs were always connected in the system except for the
time when you desired a boot to the "destination" HDD, i.e., the recipient
of the clone, *immediately* following the disk-cloning operation -
presumably to determine that the clone "took". At that time you would
temporarily disconnect the "source" HDD from the system so that the system
would boot directly to the newly-cloned HDD and thus avoid any *possible*
problems involving drive letter assignments in the future re the cloned
HDD - an issue that was previously discussed involving the disk-cloning
process. Assuming no problems with newly-cloned disk, you would re:connect
your source HDD. (See my note below re the Casper disk-cloning program).

Again, I really cannot account for the problems you experienced with the
exception of the defective HDD situation which we previously discussed. I
could only repeat what I've already posted re using the Cable Select
configuration re connecting one or two HDDs in the system.

Rather than go through the HDD connecting - disconnecting - reconnecting
process you've described as it involves the disk-cloning operation with the
Acronis program, have you considered simply installing one of your HDDs as a
USB device in an external enclosure? Since I take it you use your secondary
HDD solely as the recipient of the clone this would avoid any potential
problems involving a future boot to an internally-connected destination HDD.

Another obvious option would be to simply use your Acronis program for
disk-imaging purposes to the internally-connected secondary HDD. Although
that drive would not be bootable under those circumstances, you would still
have a comprehensive backup of your system.

I don't know if you've seen my posts concerning the Casper disk-cloning
program indicating our strong preference for that program for comprehensive
backup purposes. One of the many reasons we prefer that program bears upon
an issue you've raised, i.e., the potential need for disconnecting the
source HDD immediately following the disk-cloning operation and make an
initial boot to the newly-cloned drive. With Casper there's never a problem
in this area. At least during the nearly three years we've been using the
program and cloned or help clone hundreds of various HDDs we've *never* run
into that potential problem. The user can internally connect his or her
destination HDD, clone the contents of the source HDD to the destination
disk, and have no need to disconnect either the source or destination HDD
following the disk-cloning operation. Following the disk-cloning operation,
the user can boot straightaway to his/her source HDD (with the newly-cloned
HDD still connected) and there will be no problem booting to the cloned HDD
at some future time.

And with the recent release of the Casper 6 program a new capability has
been added to the program - a USB external HDD used as the recipient of the
clone can now be bootable. Naturally the motherboard's BIOS must support
this capability, i.e., booting from a USB-installed device. Many of the
older MBs do not have this capability although virtually all the MBs
produced during the past few years have that capability.

Re your "P.S."...There shouldn't be any problem negatively affecting your
motherboard in terms of causing any permanent problems or causing the board
to become defective. I'm sure you're wise enough to disconnect the A/C power
from the PC before manipulating any components.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

In the past using Acronis when I finished cloning the new HDD and shut
down I could then disconnect the prior OS HDD and connect the newly cloned
HDD as my main OS HDD and had no trouble booting with it.

I am using the HDD's as back up so to speak. I save the old OS HDD as my
back up and then use the newly cloned as my primary HDD. About every six
months I would do this process where I would have an updated back up HDD.
This way my back up HDD was a truly functional bootable HDD and to use it
all that I had to do was reconnect it as Primary Master in case of HDD
failure. Also it allowed me to distribute the operating time on each hard
drive.

I am merely cloning them on a rotational purpose so to speak whereas I
will always have a replacement HDD ready if need be.

I agree with you about Casper vs Acronis and if I knew then what I know
now I would have purchased Casper. Oh well....

Again thanks,

Tom

P.S. Still mind boggling as to why the old OS HDD when connected to the IDE
cable end position using CS comes up Primary Slave and the new HDD connected
to the middle position comes up Primary Master?? This is why I have always
had to reverse and connect the old OS HDD in the middle to get it as Primary
Master. When two HDD's are connected using CS the middle is always Primary
Master and the end is Primary Slave. Guess this will always be an
unknown....

Tom:
With respect to this issue, all I can tell you based upon our experience
with a wide variety of PCs is that when two PATA HDDs properly jumpered
for
Cable Select are properly connected to the IDE data cable to the Primary
IDE
channel, the HDD connected to the end connector is designated by the
system
as Primary Master and the HDD connected to the middle connector as Primary
Slave. We're naturally assuming that all involved components are
non-defective, i.e., the motherboard's IDE channel, the IDE data cable,
and
both HDDs. And that the proper connections have been made.

Generally speaking we have found that the three connectors on the IDE data
cable are blue, black, and gray; the blue connector usually connected to
the
IDE channel, the black connector being the middle connector, and the gray
connector the end connector. But we have come across a sizeable number of
data cables with different color combinations.

As I've previously indicated it is the *position* of the data cable
connector (middle or end) and not the color of the connector, that
determines whether the system will designate the attached HDD as either
Master or Slave when the HDDs are jumpered CS. So that the HDD connected
to
the end connector is designated Master, while the HDD connected to the
middle connector is designated Slave.

As I believe I may have previously mentioned - should a user be working
with
a single HDD (containing the bootable OS) jumpered CS and connects the
drive
to the middle connector on the IDE data cable the system will detect that
drive as a Slave. Generally speaking and as a practical matter there's
usually no harm in that configuration and by & large we've found no
discernable effect on performance, but it's better practice (for a number
of
reasons) to connect the drive to the end connector where it will be
designated as Master. However, on the other hand, we have come across a
number of motherboards who will balk at booting a HDD in the Slave
position.

I honestly don't know why you're experiencing the situation you describe.
It
might be worthwhile (assuming you haven't done so already) to contact Sony
tech support to see if they can shed some light on this. In any event
there's really nothing to be concerned about re misconfiguring the HDD
connections; doing so would have no effect on causing a non-defective HDD
to
become defective or "ruining" it.
Anna

Hi Anna:

I suppose you have gathered by now that the only time that I have two
HDD's connected is during the cloning process and this is correct. I never
have two HDD's connected otherwise.

Again in reviewing my notes for past cloning using CS I have always had
to
connect the current OS HDD in the middle position to get it to appear as
Primary Master. Otherwise it appears as Primary Slave. I therefore have
had
to connect the new HDD to the end position where it will appear as Primary
Slave.

Using the above procedures for past cloning I have never had a problem
until this last time when I did not disconnect the cloned HDD immediately
afterwards upon shutdown. And of course after I did not disconnect and
rebooted I could not get the cloned HDD to appear as a disk drive even
though the BIOS indicated it as Primary Slave. As far as I know this
cloned
HDD was not defective in any way prior to my cloning it. I might add that
my
normal connections for the single OS HDD is to connect it to the IDE cable
end position and then it does appear in BIOS as Primary Master and this is
the way that I currently have it.

In reviewing my notes I always ran a scandisk on the currently installed
HDD prior to cloning. Next after connecting the new HDD I formatted it
prior
to cloning. I did neither of these processes in my last clone attempt and
do
not know if by not doing so it contributed to the cloning problem that I
encountered.

Based upon all this do you have any recommendations using the CS with
Jumper pins in 1 & 2 position to use when I get the new HDD? If not, I am
going to try once again using the same CS connection procedures I have
used
in the past including the checkdsk on OS HDD and format new HDD as
mentioned
above.

Again I appreciate all your postings in this regards,

Tom

P.S. I just hope that I haven't caused something with my motherboard that
will cause my new HDD not to appear as I disk drive upon initial boot. I
must have something that is not right somewhere for the HDD's not to
appear
correct using the CS.

Tom:
Actually I hadn't realized that you internally-connected the secondary HDD
*only* for purposes of the disk-cloning operation. I just (mistakenly)
assumed that both HDDs were always connected in the system except for the
time when you desired a boot to the "destination" HDD, i.e., the recipient
of the clone, *immediately* following the disk-cloning operation -
presumably to determine that the clone "took". At that time you would
temporarily disconnect the "source" HDD from the system so that the system
would boot directly to the newly-cloned HDD and thus avoid any *possible*
problems involving drive letter assignments in the future re the cloned
HDD - an issue that was previously discussed involving the disk-cloning
process. Assuming no problems with newly-cloned disk, you would re:connect
your source HDD. (See my note below re the Casper disk-cloning program).

Again, I really cannot account for the problems you experienced with the
exception of the defective HDD situation which we previously discussed. I
could only repeat what I've already posted re using the Cable Select
configuration re connecting one or two HDDs in the system.

Rather than go through the HDD connecting - disconnecting - reconnecting
process you've described as it involves the disk-cloning operation with the
Acronis program, have you considered simply installing one of your HDDs as a
USB device in an external enclosure? Since I take it you use your secondary
HDD solely as the recipient of the clone this would avoid any potential
problems involving a future boot to an internally-connected destination HDD.

Another obvious option would be to simply use your Acronis program for
disk-imaging purposes to the internally-connected secondary HDD. Although
that drive would not be bootable under those circumstances, you would still
have a comprehensive backup of your system.

I don't know if you've seen my posts concerning the Casper disk-cloning
program indicating our strong preference for that program for comprehensive
backup purposes. One of the many reasons we prefer that program bears upon
an issue you've raised, i.e., the potential need for disconnecting the
source HDD immediately following the disk-cloning operation and make an
initial boot to the newly-cloned drive. With Casper there's never a problem
in this area. At least during the nearly three years we've been using the
program and cloned or help clone hundreds of various HDDs we've *never* run
into that potential problem. The user can internally connect his or her
destination HDD, clone the contents of the source HDD to the destination
disk, and have no need to disconnect either the source or destination HDD
following the disk-cloning operation. Following the disk-cloning operation,
the user can boot straightaway to his/her source HDD (with the newly-cloned
HDD still connected) and there will be no problem booting to the cloned HDD
at some future time.

And with the recent release of the Casper 6 program a new capability has
been added to the program - a USB external HDD used as the recipient of the
clone can now be bootable. Naturally the motherboard's BIOS must support
this capability, i.e., booting from a USB-installed device. Many of the
older MBs do not have this capability although virtually all the MBs
produced during the past few years have that capability.

Re your "P.S."...There shouldn't be any problem negatively affecting your
motherboard in terms of causing any permanent problems or causing the board
to become defective. I'm sure you're wise enough to disconnect the A/C power
from the PC before manipulating any components.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Hi Anna:

In the past using Acronis when I finished cloning the new HDD and shut
down I could then disconnect the prior OS HDD and connect the newly cloned
HDD as my main OS HDD and had no trouble booting with it.

I am using the HDD's as back up so to speak. I save the old OS HDD as my
back up and then use the newly cloned as my primary HDD. About every six
months I would do this process where I would have an updated back up HDD.
This way my back up HDD was a truly functional bootable HDD and to use it
all that I had to do was reconnect it as Primary Master in case of HDD
failure. Also it allowed me to distribute the operating time on each hard
drive.

I am merely cloning them on a rotational purpose so to speak whereas I
will always have a replacement HDD ready if need be.

I agree with you about Casper vs Acronis and if I knew then what I know
now I would have purchased Casper. Oh well....

Again thanks,

Tom

(P.S. SNIPPED)


Tom:
If I correctly understand you, you're undertaking the disk-cloning operation
every six months. Do I have this right?

Should that be the case, there's really no significant advantage to the
Casper disk-cloning program over the Acronis one as related to the
disk-cloning process. While I believe there are a number of advantages with
Casper viz-a-viz the Acronis program as they relate to user friendliness and
simplicity of operations, they are not crucial advantages if & when the user
employs a disk-cloning program on a relatively infrequent basis, e.g., every
six months or thereabouts. Frankly any reasonably well-behaved disk-cloning
(or even disk imaging) program should suffice for a user under those
circumstances.

The truly significant advantage (in my view) of Casper as compared with
every other disk-cloning & disk-imaging program I've ever worked with is its
rather extroardinary ability to quickly clone the contents of one HDD to
another HDD. But this ability manifests itself *only* when the program is
utilized on a routine & frequent basis - say every few days or weekly or
even on a daily basis. As you may know I've commented in detail on this
process so I won't go into it here. Suffice to say that through Casper's
"SmartClone" technology the backup (cloning) operation takes only a fraction
of the time it would take other disk-cloning/disk-imaging programs. So you
can see what a valuable incentive this is for users to systematically &
routinely backup their systems with the Casper program - knowing that the
expenditure of time to complete the disk-cloning operation will be
relatively slight provided they undertake the disk-cloning operation on a
fairly frequent basis.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

I received the new HDD and proceeded as carefully as I could in following
the correct procedures.

1. When I connected the new HDD in the Primary Slave position it indicated
finding new hardware etc; however, the HDD did not appear with a drive
letter assigned. I used Disk Management and finally initialized the disk,
but sill no drive letter. I noticed that it said "Unallocated" so I right
clicked and had very few options, but one was "New Partition". I finally
clicked on it and it did assign the next drive letter "F" and immediately
started Formatting the disk.

2. It took a good awhile to finally Format and it got to 100% and indicated
the disk was "Healthy. Original Disk was "O" Local Drive "C" and new Disk
was "1" something.

3. I then clicked on Acronis and ran it's Clone procedures and everything
went as normal. Took about 15 minutes to clone the new HDD and said to hit
any key to shut down which I did. At this point I thought everything was
fine.

4. I reconnected the new HDD and changed the Jumper pin to 1 & 2,
disconnected the old HDD, and thought that I was set to go.

5. Low and behold I now apparently have a cloned HDD that is NOT bootable,
as it would not boot and I got the message to insert disk or whatever.

At this point I am just about fed up with HDD's and have no idea what to do
next to get the cloned HDD to boot.

If you can tell me where I am and what I need to do next I will be most
appreciative. I still can't believe the new HDD will not boot.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Anna:

In the past using Acronis when I finished cloning the new HDD and shut
down I could then disconnect the prior OS HDD and connect the newly cloned
HDD as my main OS HDD and had no trouble booting with it.

I am using the HDD's as back up so to speak. I save the old OS HDD as my
back up and then use the newly cloned as my primary HDD. About every six
months I would do this process where I would have an updated back up HDD.
This way my back up HDD was a truly functional bootable HDD and to use it
all that I had to do was reconnect it as Primary Master in case of HDD
failure. Also it allowed me to distribute the operating time on each hard
drive.

I am merely cloning them on a rotational purpose so to speak whereas I
will always have a replacement HDD ready if need be.

I agree with you about Casper vs Acronis and if I knew then what I know
now I would have purchased Casper. Oh well....

Again thanks,

Tom

(P.S. SNIPPED)


Tom:
If I correctly understand you, you're undertaking the disk-cloning operation
every six months. Do I have this right?

Should that be the case, there's really no significant advantage to the
Casper disk-cloning program over the Acronis one as related to the
disk-cloning process. While I believe there are a number of advantages with
Casper viz-a-viz the Acronis program as they relate to user friendliness and
simplicity of operations, they are not crucial advantages if & when the user
employs a disk-cloning program on a relatively infrequent basis, e.g., every
six months or thereabouts. Frankly any reasonably well-behaved disk-cloning
(or even disk imaging) program should suffice for a user under those
circumstances.

The truly significant advantage (in my view) of Casper as compared with
every other disk-cloning & disk-imaging program I've ever worked with is its
rather extroardinary ability to quickly clone the contents of one HDD to
another HDD. But this ability manifests itself *only* when the program is
utilized on a routine & frequent basis - say every few days or weekly or
even on a daily basis. As you may know I've commented in detail on this
process so I won't go into it here. Suffice to say that through Casper's
"SmartClone" technology the backup (cloning) operation takes only a fraction
of the time it would take other disk-cloning/disk-imaging programs. So you
can see what a valuable incentive this is for users to systematically &
routinely backup their systems with the Casper program - knowing that the
expenditure of time to complete the disk-cloning operation will be
relatively slight provided they undertake the disk-cloning operation on a
fairly frequent basis.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

Well good news finally!

I reconnected the new cloned HDD this morning and tried to boot and it
failed, as I mentioned in my prior posting last night. I rebooted to see
what the BIOS indicated and no disk was found in either the Primary Master
or Primary Slave.

I had made a bootable CD with Acronis as they recommended, but of course
it would not work because of the disk not being found.

For some reason I thought of the Jumper pin which was in positions 1 & 2
(the same position as my old HDD), but anyway I removed the Jumper entirely.

Guess what....with the Jumper pin removed the disk showed up in the BIOS
as Primary Master! Got a Windows screen shortly that said I should reboot to
I suppose get the disk squared away (I forget exactly what it said and why
the reboot).

But when it rebooted everything on the new HDD works as should be.

Now I have two HDD's that work; however, with both connected to the end
IDE cable the old works with the Jumper pin in 1&2 and the new will only
work with the Jumper pin totally removed.

If you have any idea as to why I would love to hear it.

Anyway I just want to thank you immensely for all your time and effort in
helping me resolve this issue and I really do appreciate all that you have
done.

Tom

P.S. You helped me learn a lot more about HDD's than I ever knew, but I now
know there is a lot more that I can learn.

Hi Anna:

In the past using Acronis when I finished cloning the new HDD and shut
down I could then disconnect the prior OS HDD and connect the newly cloned
HDD as my main OS HDD and had no trouble booting with it.

I am using the HDD's as back up so to speak. I save the old OS HDD as my
back up and then use the newly cloned as my primary HDD. About every six
months I would do this process where I would have an updated back up HDD.
This way my back up HDD was a truly functional bootable HDD and to use it
all that I had to do was reconnect it as Primary Master in case of HDD
failure. Also it allowed me to distribute the operating time on each hard
drive.

I am merely cloning them on a rotational purpose so to speak whereas I
will always have a replacement HDD ready if need be.

I agree with you about Casper vs Acronis and if I knew then what I know
now I would have purchased Casper. Oh well....

Again thanks,

Tom

(P.S. SNIPPED)


Tom:
If I correctly understand you, you're undertaking the disk-cloning operation
every six months. Do I have this right?

Should that be the case, there's really no significant advantage to the
Casper disk-cloning program over the Acronis one as related to the
disk-cloning process. While I believe there are a number of advantages with
Casper viz-a-viz the Acronis program as they relate to user friendliness and
simplicity of operations, they are not crucial advantages if & when the user
employs a disk-cloning program on a relatively infrequent basis, e.g., every
six months or thereabouts. Frankly any reasonably well-behaved disk-cloning
(or even disk imaging) program should suffice for a user under those
circumstances.

The truly significant advantage (in my view) of Casper as compared with
every other disk-cloning & disk-imaging program I've ever worked with is its
rather extroardinary ability to quickly clone the contents of one HDD to
another HDD. But this ability manifests itself *only* when the program is
utilized on a routine & frequent basis - say every few days or weekly or
even on a daily basis. As you may know I've commented in detail on this
process so I won't go into it here. Suffice to say that through Casper's
"SmartClone" technology the backup (cloning) operation takes only a fraction
of the time it would take other disk-cloning/disk-imaging programs. So you
can see what a valuable incentive this is for users to systematically &
routinely backup their systems with the Casper program - knowing that the
expenditure of time to complete the disk-cloning operation will be
relatively slight provided they undertake the disk-cloning operation on a
fairly frequent basis.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Hi Anna:

I received the new HDD and proceeded as carefully as I could in following
the correct procedures.

1. When I connected the new HDD in the Primary Slave position it indicated
finding new hardware etc; however, the HDD did not appear with a drive
letter assigned. I used Disk Management and finally initialized the disk,
but sill no drive letter. I noticed that it said "Unallocated" so I right
clicked and had very few options, but one was "New Partition". I finally
clicked on it and it did assign the next drive letter "F" and immediately
started Formatting the disk.

2. It took a good awhile to finally Format and it got to 100% and
indicated
the disk was "Healthy. Original Disk was "O" Local Drive "C" and new Disk
was "1" something.

3. I then clicked on Acronis and ran it's Clone procedures and everything
went as normal. Took about 15 minutes to clone the new HDD and said to hit
any key to shut down which I did. At this point I thought everything was
fine.

4. I reconnected the new HDD and changed the Jumper pin to 1 & 2,
disconnected the old HDD, and thought that I was set to go.

5. Low and behold I now apparently have a cloned HDD that is NOT bootable,
as it would not boot and I got the message to insert disk or whatever.

At this point I am just about fed up with HDD's and have no idea what to
do
next to get the cloned HDD to boot.

If you can tell me where I am and what I need to do next I will be most
appreciative. I still can't believe the new HDD will not boot.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom:
With respect to 1, 2, & 3 above...
When a brand-new unpartitioned/unformatted HDD is installed in the machine
as a secondary HDD the XP OS requires that the disk be "initialized" before
it can be integrated into the system and be partitioned & formatted. This
"initialization" process as I'm sure you discovered is quite simple & quick.
Ordinarily the OS will generate a message to this effect, i.e., the need for
initialization when the system boots to the user's boot drive and the user
accesses the Disk Management snap-in utility. But not always in our
experience. In any event there is that need to initialize the disk before
proceeding with the partitioning/formatting process so that one or more
drive letters will be assigned to the disk.

Actually there was probably no need for you to undertake the preceding
process since you were intending to clone the contents of your "source"
(boot) HDD to the new "destination" HDD using your Acronis disk-cloning
program. As long as you were making a disk-to-disk copy, the disk-cloning
process in & of itself would carry out the partitioning/formatting process
without user intervention and an appropriate drive letter (or letters) would
have been assigned by the OS to the cloned destination disk following
completion of the disk-cloning process. Under those circumstances there
really wasn't any need for you to invoke the Disk Management utility in
connection with that process. Ordinarily the only time there *would* be a
need for the DM process would be when you wanted to manipulate the number &
size of partitions on the destination HDD so that they would be different
from the number/size of the partitions on your source HDD. (And even over
that latter circumstance you could achieve this manipulation using Casper's
disk-cloning process; I'm unsure whether you could do the same with the
Acronis program although I believe you could).

It's been some time since I've worked with the Acronis program so I hope I'm
correct re the preceding info. If I'm not I trust you or someone coming upon
this thread will correct me.

With respect to 4...
I'm not clear as to why there was a need for you to change the jumper
configuration on your newly-cloned HDD. You're indicating at this point,
i.e., immediately following the disk-cloning process, you now jumpered the
disk Cable Select? Do I have this right? But wasn't it jumpered CS from the
time you first installed the disk?

In any event, are you absolutely sure the disk was jumpered CS at this point
after you disconnected your source HDD?

The potential problem here is that if you didn't correctly jumper the disk
CS and that Western Digital disk is the *only* HDD connected in the system,
then it must be jumpered what WD terms "Single". Failure to do so will
usually (but not always) result in a failure-to-boot situation.

(I'm assuming in all this is that following the disk-cloning operation with
both your source & destination HDDs connected you took a peek at the new HDD
via Windows Explorer or some such and as best you could determine it
appeared all the files/folders seemed to have been correctly copied).

All-in-all it sounds like a simple misconfiguration of one sort or another
is at the root of the problem (assuming the disk-cloning operation was
successful). It's hard to imagine you're dealing with another defective HDD.

Assuming you're unable to resolve the problem at this point, would you
consider doing the following?...

Download & install the trial version of Casper 6 from
http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/
Give it a whirl and see how it goes.
Note that this trial edition is slightly crippled in that it will create a
partition on the destination HDD only sufficient in size to hold the
contents of your source HDD. So that (in your case) where your source HDD is
a 250 GB HDD and the total data contents on that drive total, for example,
55 GB, the 250 GB HDD that you're using as the destination HDD will contain
a partition of 55 GB to hold those contents. The remaining disk space on the
destination HDD will be unpartitioned/unallocated. (Naturally you could
later use Disk Management to create & format whatever other partitions you
desired on that destination HDD). Of course there is no similar limitation
in the licensed version of Casper 6.

In any event there's no harm or permanent situation in using the trial
edition of Casper 6, so give it a shot just in case it's the Acronis
disk-cloning operation that's somehow involved in this problem you've
related.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Tom: (SNIP)
I'm not clear as to why there was a need for you to change the jumper
configuration on your newly-cloned HDD. You're indicating at this point,
i.e., immediately following the disk-cloning process, you now jumpered the
disk Cable Select? Do I have this right? But wasn't it jumpered CS from
the
time you first installed the disk?

In any event, are you absolutely sure the disk was jumpered CS at this
point
after you disconnected your source HDD?

The potential problem here is that if you didn't correctly jumper the disk
CS and that Western Digital disk is the *only* HDD connected in the
system,
then it must be jumpered what WD terms "Single". Failure to do so will
usually (but not always) result in a failure-to-boot situation.

(I'm assuming in all this is that following the disk-cloning operation
with
both your source & destination HDDs connected you took a peek at the new
HDD
via Windows Explorer or some such and as best you could determine it
appeared all the files/folders seemed to have been correctly copied).

All-in-all it sounds like a simple misconfiguration of one sort or another
is at the root of the problem (assuming the disk-cloning operation was
successful). It's hard to imagine you're dealing with another defective
HDD. (SNIP)
Anna

Hi Anna:

Well good news finally!

I reconnected the new cloned HDD this morning and tried to boot and it
failed, as I mentioned in my prior posting last night. I rebooted to see
what the BIOS indicated and no disk was found in either the Primary Master
or Primary Slave.

I had made a bootable CD with Acronis as they recommended, but of course
it would not work because of the disk not being found.

For some reason I thought of the Jumper pin which was in positions 1 & 2
(the same position as my old HDD), but anyway I removed the Jumper
entirely.

Guess what....with the Jumper pin removed the disk showed up in the BIOS
as Primary Master! Got a Windows screen shortly that said I should reboot
to
I suppose get the disk squared away (I forget exactly what it said and why
the reboot).

But when it rebooted everything on the new HDD works as should be.

Now I have two HDD's that work; however, with both connected to the end
IDE cable the old works with the Jumper pin in 1&2 and the new will only
work with the Jumper pin totally removed.

If you have any idea as to why I would love to hear it.

Anyway I just want to thank you immensely for all your time and effort in
helping me resolve this issue and I really do appreciate all that you have
done.

Tom

P.S. You helped me learn a lot more about HDD's than I ever knew, but I
now
know there is a lot more that I can learn.

Tom:
As I'm sure you're aware my previous post above was sent before I saw your
latest post above.

It would appear that it was the absence of the "Single" jumpered
configuration of your cloned WD HDD that caused the problem you related.
While it is not uncommon for PATA WD drives to exhibit the failure-to-boot
problem when the drive is the only HDD connected on the IDE data cable
because the BIOS (in many, if not most cases) will not detect the disk
unless it is jumpered as Single - in effect, unjumpered, usually there's not
a problem when the WD disk is jumpered Cable Select. In most instances -
even if the disk is the only HDD connected on the IDE data cable - there
will be no problem with disk detection by the motherboard's BIOS when the CS
configuration is used. But, as I believe I may have previously mentioned,
occasionally some motherboards *will* balk at a CS setting. It's rather
uncommon (except for older motherboards) but it does happen.

Of course, you're certain the WD HDD was correctly jumpered as CS yes?

Anyway, glad to hear you're back-in-business with a bootable cloned HDD.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

Apparently we were both writing replies at the same time and you did not
see my prior posting where everything was resolved prior to you sending this
posting. Anyway please read my 1/9/2010 12:25 PM posting.

First let me say something that I should have said in my 1/9/2010 12:41AM
posting earlier. I did not use the CS method in my cloning due to all the
other postings in relation to IDE cable positions etc, as I was apprehensive
in doing so. My last successful clone prior to this I used the Pri Master
(5&6) and Pri Slave (3&4) and that is what I did this time.

I do have some additional comments related to what you have indicated.

The last HDD that I cloned (the one that failed) I initially used WD
Digital/Data Lifeguard Tools to do the original clone. Using it for some
reason versus Acronis I never knew about Initializing the new disk etc. With
this recent new disk I never got an OS generated msg indicating that I
needed to initialize it. The only way that I found it was when the new disk
did not appear as a new drive letter in My Computer and I went to Disk
Management in an effort to see what was going on.

When I opened Disk Mgmt and saw the new Disk listed as "1" with a red mark
of some sort by Initialize is when I first knew anything about having to
initialize a disk. I initialized it not really knowing what I was doing.
Afterwards the disk drive still did not appear in My Computer. Whereas the
Primary Disk "0" indicated status "Healthy" the new disk after initializing
still indicated "Unallotted". When I right clicked on it I got very few
options one of which was "New Partition". Again I did not really know what I
was doing, but was only trying to get the new disk assigned a drive letter
where I could see it. Finally I clicked on New Partition and it launched the
Partition Wizard and I was able to get the next drive letter "F" assigned to
this disk. Immediately afterwards it auto started "Formatting" which took
well over an hour. I was plowing "New Ground" with all this and not knowing
really what I was doing. I tried reading all the Help files related to this
process, but to me they were totally inept with my limited experience.

So now I know a heck of a lot more about HDD's than I ever knew thanks to
you.

Again I want to thank you for your perseverance with a HDD novice. I
cannot really tell you how much that I appreciate all that you did for me in
this matter.

Kindest regards,

Tom

P.S. "All's well that end "well"....sorta like a aircraft landing in that
any you walk away from is a great one!

Hi Anna:

I received the new HDD and proceeded as carefully as I could in following
the correct procedures.

1. When I connected the new HDD in the Primary Slave position it indicated
finding new hardware etc; however, the HDD did not appear with a drive
letter assigned. I used Disk Management and finally initialized the disk,
but sill no drive letter. I noticed that it said "Unallocated" so I right
clicked and had very few options, but one was "New Partition". I finally
clicked on it and it did assign the next drive letter "F" and immediately
started Formatting the disk.

2. It took a good awhile to finally Format and it got to 100% and
indicated
the disk was "Healthy. Original Disk was "O" Local Drive "C" and new Disk
was "1" something.

3. I then clicked on Acronis and ran it's Clone procedures and everything
went as normal. Took about 15 minutes to clone the new HDD and said to hit
any key to shut down which I did. At this point I thought everything was
fine.

4. I reconnected the new HDD and changed the Jumper pin to 1 & 2,
disconnected the old HDD, and thought that I was set to go.

5. Low and behold I now apparently have a cloned HDD that is NOT bootable,
as it would not boot and I got the message to insert disk or whatever.

At this point I am just about fed up with HDD's and have no idea what to
do
next to get the cloned HDD to boot.

If you can tell me where I am and what I need to do next I will be most
appreciative. I still can't believe the new HDD will not boot.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom:
With respect to 1, 2, & 3 above...
When a brand-new unpartitioned/unformatted HDD is installed in the machine
as a secondary HDD the XP OS requires that the disk be "initialized" before
it can be integrated into the system and be partitioned & formatted. This
"initialization" process as I'm sure you discovered is quite simple & quick.
Ordinarily the OS will generate a message to this effect, i.e., the need for
initialization when the system boots to the user's boot drive and the user
accesses the Disk Management snap-in utility. But not always in our
experience. In any event there is that need to initialize the disk before
proceeding with the partitioning/formatting process so that one or more
drive letters will be assigned to the disk.

Actually there was probably no need for you to undertake the preceding
process since you were intending to clone the contents of your "source"
(boot) HDD to the new "destination" HDD using your Acronis disk-cloning
program. As long as you were making a disk-to-disk copy, the disk-cloning
process in & of itself would carry out the partitioning/formatting process
without user intervention and an appropriate drive letter (or letters) would
have been assigned by the OS to the cloned destination disk following
completion of the disk-cloning process. Under those circumstances there
really wasn't any need for you to invoke the Disk Management utility in
connection with that process. Ordinarily the only time there *would* be a
need for the DM process would be when you wanted to manipulate the number &
size of partitions on the destination HDD so that they would be different
from the number/size of the partitions on your source HDD. (And even over
that latter circumstance you could achieve this manipulation using Casper's
disk-cloning process; I'm unsure whether you could do the same with the
Acronis program although I believe you could).

It's been some time since I've worked with the Acronis program so I hope I'm
correct re the preceding info. If I'm not I trust you or someone coming upon
this thread will correct me.

With respect to 4...
I'm not clear as to why there was a need for you to change the jumper
configuration on your newly-cloned HDD. You're indicating at this point,
i.e., immediately following the disk-cloning process, you now jumpered the
disk Cable Select? Do I have this right? But wasn't it jumpered CS from the
time you first installed the disk?

In any event, are you absolutely sure the disk was jumpered CS at this point
after you disconnected your source HDD?

The potential problem here is that if you didn't correctly jumper the disk
CS and that Western Digital disk is the *only* HDD connected in the system,
then it must be jumpered what WD terms "Single". Failure to do so will
usually (but not always) result in a failure-to-boot situation.

(I'm assuming in all this is that following the disk-cloning operation with
both your source & destination HDDs connected you took a peek at the new HDD
via Windows Explorer or some such and as best you could determine it
appeared all the files/folders seemed to have been correctly copied).

All-in-all it sounds like a simple misconfiguration of one sort or another
is at the root of the problem (assuming the disk-cloning operation was
successful). It's hard to imagine you're dealing with another defective HDD.

Assuming you're unable to resolve the problem at this point, would you
consider doing the following?...

Download & install the trial version of Casper 6 from
http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/
Give it a whirl and see how it goes.
Note that this trial edition is slightly crippled in that it will create a
partition on the destination HDD only sufficient in size to hold the
contents of your source HDD. So that (in your case) where your source HDD is
a 250 GB HDD and the total data contents on that drive total, for example,
55 GB, the 250 GB HDD that you're using as the destination HDD will contain
a partition of 55 GB to hold those contents. The remaining disk space on the
destination HDD will be unpartitioned/unallocated. (Naturally you could
later use Disk Management to create & format whatever other partitions you
desired on that destination HDD). Of course there is no similar limitation
in the licensed version of Casper 6.

In any event there's no harm or permanent situation in using the trial
edition of Casper 6, so give it a shot just in case it's the Acronis
disk-cloning operation that's somehow involved in this problem you've
related.
Anna

 

[ColTom2]

Hi Anna:

CS was always jumpered in 1 & 2 on both HDD's. However, with all that I have
been through I am not certain about anything....

Thanks again,

Tom

Tom: (SNIP)
I'm not clear as to why there was a need for you to change the jumper
configuration on your newly-cloned HDD. You're indicating at this point,
i.e., immediately following the disk-cloning process, you now jumpered the
disk Cable Select? Do I have this right? But wasn't it jumpered CS from
the
time you first installed the disk?

In any event, are you absolutely sure the disk was jumpered CS at this
point
after you disconnected your source HDD?

The potential problem here is that if you didn't correctly jumper the disk
CS and that Western Digital disk is the *only* HDD connected in the
system,
then it must be jumpered what WD terms "Single". Failure to do so will
usually (but not always) result in a failure-to-boot situation.

(I'm assuming in all this is that following the disk-cloning operation
with
both your source & destination HDDs connected you took a peek at the new
HDD
via Windows Explorer or some such and as best you could determine it
appeared all the files/folders seemed to have been correctly copied).

All-in-all it sounds like a simple misconfiguration of one sort or another
is at the root of the problem (assuming the disk-cloning operation was
successful). It's hard to imagine you're dealing with another defective
HDD. (SNIP)
Anna

Hi Anna:

Well good news finally!

I reconnected the new cloned HDD this morning and tried to boot and it
failed, as I mentioned in my prior posting last night. I rebooted to see
what the BIOS indicated and no disk was found in either the Primary Master
or Primary Slave.

I had made a bootable CD with Acronis as they recommended, but of course
it would not work because of the disk not being found.

For some reason I thought of the Jumper pin which was in positions 1 & 2
(the same position as my old HDD), but anyway I removed the Jumper
entirely.

Guess what....with the Jumper pin removed the disk showed up in the BIOS
as Primary Master! Got a Windows screen shortly that said I should reboot
to
I suppose get the disk squared away (I forget exactly what it said and why
the reboot).

But when it rebooted everything on the new HDD works as should be.

Now I have two HDD's that work; however, with both connected to the end
IDE cable the old works with the Jumper pin in 1&2 and the new will only
work with the Jumper pin totally removed.

If you have any idea as to why I would love to hear it.

Anyway I just want to thank you immensely for all your time and effort in
helping me resolve this issue and I really do appreciate all that you have
done.

Tom

P.S. You helped me learn a lot more about HDD's than I ever knew, but I
now
know there is a lot more that I can learn.

Tom:
As I'm sure you're aware my previous post above was sent before I saw your
latest post above.

It would appear that it was the absence of the "Single" jumpered
configuration of your cloned WD HDD that caused the problem you related.
While it is not uncommon for PATA WD drives to exhibit the failure-to-boot
problem when the drive is the only HDD connected on the IDE data cable
because the BIOS (in many, if not most cases) will not detect the disk
unless it is jumpered as Single - in effect, unjumpered, usually there's not
a problem when the WD disk is jumpered Cable Select. In most instances -
even if the disk is the only HDD connected on the IDE data cable - there
will be no problem with disk detection by the motherboard's BIOS when the CS
configuration is used. But, as I believe I may have previously mentioned,
occasionally some motherboards *will* balk at a CS setting. It's rather
uncommon (except for older motherboards) but it does happen.

Of course, you're certain the WD HDD was correctly jumpered as CS yes?

Anyway, glad to hear you're back-in-business with a bootable cloned HDD.
Anna