clicking drive?

[My father's son]

I am beginning to wonder if we were entirely on the right track with our
potential solutions to the problems I described with the thread which
concerned 'cant see directories' (in which the auto detect wasnt
recognising a replaced drive properly without manually putting the CHS
values in)

After following all the advice proferred, I was advised by the suppliers of
System Commander to do checkmbr /mbr after doing what they describe as an
unknown switch fdisk /mbr

Suddenly the computer started not being able to see its mbr sector at all!
And neither of those commands executed and when I came back to the computer
after my cleaning lady had cleaned the room, a few hours later I found two
things, one obviously irrelevant and one perhaps slightly relevant. Firstly
there are two DIMM slots and one of the DIMMS had mysteriously fallen out.
Secondly the C drive has started clicking like crazy and at random. 9 LOUD
clicks followed by 21 followed by 18 (etc etc). I found that removing the
IDE cable didnt stop the clicking but that I COULD stop it by jiggling the
power cable??? So I tried changing the power cable coming from the power
supply and the problem didnt improve. I can stop the clicking by touching
the cable and get to an A prompt but cant get to any type of C prompt or
check or write to the boot sector. AND the Western Digital diagnositcs test
reports a problem with the cable before it even starts testing the drive. It
asks if I want to test the drive and then starts the test OK but doesn't
even get as far as 1%. Needless to say the clicking isnt present with other
drives so this doesn't SEEM to be a problem with the power supply or the
cable.

Is this drive terminal or can anything be done about this
clicking/non-working drive? It has been out of use for about six months and
I have found over the past few years that if I take a working drive out of
use for a few months and then try to use it, they always seem to give
problems. Is there a solution to this or when that arm starts sticking (or
the drive starts pretending that there is a problem with the cable), has the
drive in practice died? Or is there a utility which can restore drives which
have (is this?) stuck arms through slight lack of use? Somehow I can't
believe that drives (possily especially Western Digital ones) just die when
not used for shortish periods. Especially as this drive was working/reading
properly for the last few days while we were trying to cure the 'cant see
directories' problem. (I have tried the sharp-tap as well as the
stick-it-in-the-freezer solutions)

I know that manufacturers like people to thing that computers arent
supposed to last more than a few years before the user feels he has to go
out and buy a newer one but are the components THAT badly made now? I
guess the real problem will be that it was always argued that people need
new computers because older computers cant run the newest programs (even if,
for example, when the Pentium came out, newer programs which neeeded it over
the 486 werent actually out there yet so there was always the wrong argument
that you could continue using your old computer and didnt need the newer
one). But the position NOW is surely that most people only use their
computers for word processing, manipulating photos with consumer-programs,
surfing the internet and keeping info in PIMs and for all this, over the
last few years it really IS a bit difficult to justify buying the newest
three gigahertz computer running Windows 98SE/xp/2000 over a I ghz one
running 98SE/xp/2000 unless you use games (which a lot of consumers don't).

I really am starting to wonder about this drives-dying problem I seem to be
experiencing so often and if so many of them dying is really just a big
coincidence

MFS

 

[SleeperMan]

I am beginning to wonder if we were entirely on the right track with
our potential solutions to the problems I described with the thread
which concerned 'cant see directories' (in which the auto detect
wasnt recognising a replaced drive properly without manually putting
the CHS values in)

After following all the advice proferred, I was advised by the
suppliers of System Commander to do checkmbr /mbr after doing what
they describe as an unknown switch fdisk /mbr

Suddenly the computer started not being able to see its mbr sector at
all! And neither of those commands executed and when I came back to
the computer after my cleaning lady had cleaned the room, a few hours
later I found two things, one obviously irrelevant and one perhaps
slightly relevant. Firstly there are two DIMM slots and one of the
DIMMS had mysteriously fallen out. Secondly the C drive has started
clicking like crazy and at random. 9 LOUD clicks followed by 21
followed by 18 (etc etc). I found that removing the IDE cable didnt
stop the clicking but that I COULD stop it by jiggling the power
cable??? So I tried changing the power cable coming from the power
supply and the problem didnt improve. I can stop the clicking by
touching the cable and get to an A prompt but cant get to any type of
C prompt or check or write to the boot sector. AND the Western
Digital diagnositcs test reports a problem with the cable before it
even starts testing the drive. It asks if I want to test the drive
and then starts the test OK but doesn't even get as far as 1%.
Needless to say the clicking isnt present with other drives so this
doesn't SEEM to be a problem with the power supply or the cable.

Is this drive terminal or can anything be done about this
clicking/non-working drive? It has been out of use for about six
months and I have found over the past few years that if I take a
working drive out of use for a few months and then try to use it,
they always seem to give problems. Is there a solution to this or
when that arm starts sticking (or the drive starts pretending that
there is a problem with the cable), has the drive in practice died?
Or is there a utility which can restore drives which have (is this?)
stuck arms through slight lack of use? Somehow I can't believe that
drives (possily especially Western Digital ones) just die when not
used for shortish periods. Especially as this drive was
working/reading properly for the last few days while we were trying
to cure the 'cant see directories' problem. (I have tried the
sharp-tap as well as the stick-it-in-the-freezer solutions)

I know that manufacturers like people to thing that computers arent
supposed to last more than a few years before the user feels he has
to go out and buy a newer one but are the components THAT badly made
now? I guess the real problem will be that it was always argued
that people need new computers because older computers cant run the
newest programs (even if, for example, when the Pentium came out,
newer programs which neeeded it over the 486 werent actually out
there yet so there was always the wrong argument that you could
continue using your old computer and didnt need the newer one). But
the position NOW is surely that most people only use their computers
for word processing, manipulating photos with consumer-programs,
surfing the internet and keeping info in PIMs and for all this, over
the last few years it really IS a bit difficult to justify buying the
newest three gigahertz computer running Windows 98SE/xp/2000 over a I
ghz one running 98SE/xp/2000 unless you use games (which a lot of
consumers don't).

I really am starting to wonder about this drives-dying problem I seem
to be experiencing so often and if so many of them dying is really
just a big coincidence

MFS

You're not the only one. I had two IBM drives died in a period of 6 months.
I did get a replacement each time,so now third one kinda works, but (like i
described in my thread) it also clicks every now and then. IBM
representative told me it's a sign of dying, i just don't know why this
drive is "dying" for a year now, while it still works...
I think periods of reliable drives are over. That's why i set up RAID 1
after second HDD failed - just in case...

 

[My father's son]

You're not the only one. I had two IBM drives died in a period of 6 months.
I did get a replacement each time,so now third one kinda works, but (like i
described in my thread) it also clicks every now and then. IBM
representative told me it's a sign of dying, i just don't know why this
drive is "dying" for a year now, while it still works...
I think periods of reliable drives are over. That's why i set up RAID 1
after second HDD failed - just in case...

I think that unless some magazine writes an article about this subject, the
manufacturers will continue to make these 'expendable' drives and those
drives (not to mention other parts of computers) will start to get less and
less reliable: Probably so that the computer manufacturers can carry on
selling newer (and as I mentioned totally unneeded) inventory. It is in
their interest to sell unreliable computers which use such low quality
components that they are designed to fail after a few years.

As correctly noted elsewhere, the problems will start to arise when large
enough
numbers of people notice that they are losing years and years worth of
photos because their drives have died.

Basically no one cares while no one knows about this problem and while those
drives DO manage to get through their warranty period.

I came across this issue when trying to fix a Soyo mobo: Someone has a web
site out there which identifies a certain type of mauve leaky capacitor
computer makers use which fail after a year's use and asks if users of
failed mobos can tell him if those failed boards use these caps.

(Pity it is so impossible to point this out to Consumer Reports: They dont
take reader reports / recommendations)

 

[SleeperMan]

I think that unless some magazine writes an article about this
subject, the manufacturers will continue to make these 'expendable'
drives and those drives (not to mention other parts of computers)
will start to get less and less reliable: Probably so that the
computer manufacturers can carry on selling newer (and as I mentioned
totally unneeded) inventory. It is in their interest to sell
unreliable computers which use such low quality components that they
are designed to fail after a few years.

As correctly noted elsewhere, the problems will start to arise when
large enough
numbers of people notice that they are losing years and years worth of
photos because their drives have died.

Basically no one cares while no one knows about this problem and
while those drives DO manage to get through their warranty period.

I came across this issue when trying to fix a Soyo mobo: Someone has
a web site out there which identifies a certain type of mauve leaky
capacitor computer makers use which fail after a year's use and asks
if users of failed mobos can tell him if those failed boards use
these caps.

(Pity it is so impossible to point this out to Consumer Reports: They
dont take reader reports / recommendations)

True. Someone should make manufacturers to give warranty for data, too and
not only that drive will work OK. Until there's data warranty, this will
continue to happen.

 

[Rod Speed]

I am beginning to wonder if we were entirely on the right
track with our potential solutions to the problems I described
with the thread which concerned 'cant see directories'
(in which the auto detect wasnt recognising a replaced
drive properly without manually putting the CHS values in)

Looks like just another hardware fault with
the WD diag being pretty useless on that.

But also some evidence of your butchery as well as far
as what caused the hardware problem is concerned.

After following all the advice proferred, I was advised by the
suppliers of System Commander to do checkmbr /mbr after
doing what they describe as an unknown switch fdisk /mbr

Looks like this isnt relevant given the hardware problems below.

Suddenly the computer started not
being able to see its mbr sector at all!

Not surprising given the hardware problems below.

And neither of those commands executed and when I came
back to the computer after my cleaning lady had cleaned the
room, a few hours later I found two things, one obviously
irrelevant and one perhaps slightly relevant. Firstly there are two
DIMM slots and one of the DIMMS had mysteriously fallen out.

It clearly hadnt been fully seated in the first place.

The only other possibility is that the cleaning 'lady',
I bet she's actually a cleaning woman, no tiara, is
into PC repairs on systems while the owners are out.

Secondly the C drive has started clicking like crazy and at
random. 9 LOUD clicks followed by 21 followed by 18 (etc etc).

Thats its death throes. You into necrophilia ?

I found that removing the IDE cable didnt stop the
clicking but that I COULD stop it by jiggling the power
cable??? So I tried changing the power cable coming
from the power supply and the problem didnt improve.
I can stop the clicking by touching the cable

Then the drive has a dry joint or cracked trace with the
power connector. That can be produced by being too
rough with the power connector insertion and removal.
Some drives are quite flexible in that area of the logic
card and arent hard to damage. Some connectors can
be very tight when new and some care is needed.

and get to an A prompt but cant get to any type
of C prompt or check or write to the boot sector.

The drive may well have got quite damaged by the power
cycling due to the dry joint or cracked trace associated with
the power connector on the drive logic card. Or it may just
be that you didnt manage to hold it so that the crack or dry
joint conducts properly at that point in the boot phase

AND the Western Digital diagnositcs test reports a problem
with the cable before it even starts testing the drive.

Likely because of that power to the drive problem.

It asks if I want to test the drive and then starts
the test OK but doesn't even get as far as 1%.

Likely due to the power problem.

Needless to say the clicking isnt present with other drives so this
doesn't SEEM to be a problem with the power supply or the cable.

Correct, and the fact that touching the cable, with two different
power connectors from the power supply, makes the problem go
away, is the proof of a problem with the drive power connector.

Is this drive terminal

Yes, time to RMA the drive if its still in warranty.

or can anything be done about this clicking/non-working drive?

The dry joint or cracked trace should be fixable if you
know what you are doing and the drive is out of warranty.

Not something you should try learning soldering on,
but any TV service monkey should be able to repair
it for you for peanuts. You may need to show them
how to get the logic card off the drive.

It has been out of use for about six months and
I have found over the past few years that if I take
a working drive out of use for a few months and then
try to use it, they always seem to give problems.

You must be one hell of a butcher.

Is there a solution to this
Yes.

or when that arm starts sticking

That isnt the problem.

(or the drive starts pretending that there is a problem with the cable),

It aint pretending, there clearly is a problem with the power connector.

has the drive in practice died?

It should be repairable if you havent
been having it clicking like that a lot.

Or is there a utility which can restore drives which
have (is this?) stuck arms through slight lack of use?

There is no stuck arm. If there was, pressure
on the power cable would make no difference.

Once the power connector is resoldered, you may need
to run WD's diagnostic on the drive to map away new bad
sectors that have developed due to that power problem.
It may be that the first physical sector where the MBR is
stored has got damaged and needs to be mapped away now.

Somehow I can't believe that drives (possily especially Western
Digital ones) just die when not used for shortish periods.

Yep, you clearly damaged the drive removing
it, removing the power cable particularly.

Especially as this drive was working/reading
properly for the last few days while we were
trying to cure the 'cant see directories' problem.

Yeah, cracked traces and damaged solder joints
behave like that. I cloned one drive just by having
a drive like that loose on the desktop and putting
a pencil under the drive connector, between the
connector and the desktop, basically putting
some pressure on the connector so the bad
joint conducted well enough to clone the drive.

It was an older smaller Fujitsu MPA 2.5GB drive
that wasnt worth bothering to repair, tho I might do
that sometime for a small part time machine. Its a
tad too small for XP and Office tho and noticeably slow.

Its clear that that was the reason the drive was
initially discarded and that someone had butchered
it by being too rough with the power connector.

(I have tried the sharp-tap as well as
the stick-it-in-the-freezer solutions)

You should have tried the cable wriggling before those.
Basically because that doesnt risk damaging the drive.

I know that manufacturers like people to thing that
computers arent supposed to last more than a few years
before the user feels he has to go out and buy a newer
one but are the components THAT badly made now?

Nope, you buggered the drive by being too
rough with it, particularly the power connector.

I guess the real problem will be that it was always argued that people need
new computers because older computers cant run the newest programs

Yep. Classic example is with XP and Office. The
minimum drive thats much use is now above 3GB
and plenty of those which are big enough are
irritatingly slow if you use modern systems much.

(even if, for example, when the Pentium came out,
newer programs which neeeded it over the 486
werent actually out there yet so there was always
the wrong argument that you could continue using
your old computer and didnt need the newer one).

You do if you want a decent modern OS
with the convenience that that brings with it.

I put a bit of work into an 8MB 486 the other day and
its performance is pathetic even running Win95. Not
even viable for a cd burner so the kid can copy audio
CDs, let alone copy the PS2 games he wasnt to copy.

Like most kids he basically plays PS2 games.

But the position NOW is surely that most people only use
their computers for word processing, manipulating photos
with consumer-programs, surfing the internet and keeping
info in PIMs and for all this, over the last few years it really
IS a bit difficult to justify buying the newest three gigahertz
computer running Windows 98SE/xp/2000 over a I ghz one
running 98SE/xp/2000 unless you use games
(which a lot of consumers don't).

Sure, but 486s are pretty hopeless for that sort of use.

Even socket 7 systems at say 233MHz arent that great
for other reasons, mainly the cost of ram for them.

Specially with new socket 478 integrated
motherboards and celeron cpus so cheap.

I really am starting to wonder about this drives-dying
problem I seem to be experiencing so often and if so
many of them dying is really just a big coincidence

Nope, you must be killing them. I dont get that effect with hard drives at all.

 

[Rod Speed]

Nope, I dont see anything like that failure rate.

I just bin those IBM drives instead.

I think that unless some magazine writes an article about this subject,
the manufacturers will continue to make these 'expendable' drives

Thats a myth. The IBM GXP drives certainly did have
a design problem, but that wasnt deliberate and there is
no evidence that say the 180GXPs still have that problem.

and those drives (not to mention other parts of
computers) will start to get less and less reliable:

Complete myth. I havent discarded a PC because its
died in a long time. Just for other reasons like socket 7
motherboards being a pain in the arse on the price of memory.

Probably so that the computer manufacturers can carry on
selling newer (and as I mentioned totally unneeded) inventory.

Mindless conspiracy theory.

It is in their interest to sell unreliable computers which use such low
quality components that they are designed to fail after a few years.

It isnt even possible to design a PC to fail after a few
years. And very few do fail after a few year anyway.

As correctly noted elsewhere,

Nope, its a completely mindless myth.

the problems will start to arise when large enough numbers
of people notice that they are losing years and years worth
of photos because their drives have died.

What will actually happen is that it eventually
dawns on fools like that that they have to write the
irreplaceable stuff like that to multiple CDs or DVDs.

Basically no one cares while no one knows about this problem

There is no such 'problem'

and while those drives DO manage
to get through their warranty period.

The absolute vast bulk of drives get discarded because
they are too small for the substantial collections of mp3 and
photos that so many are choosing to store on their PCs now.

And only the pig ignorant fools dont have those backed
up on multiple CDs and DVDs when those are so cheap.

I came across this issue when trying to fix a Soyo mobo:
Someone has a web site out there which identifies a certain
type of mauve leaky capacitor computer makers use which
fail after a year's use and asks if users of failed mobos can
tell him if those failed boards use these caps.

Sure, there will always be examples of that sort of problem.

Thats nothing to do with the utterly mindless conspiracy
theory that claims that the use of those was deliberate
to get people to replace PCs after a year to two tho.

(Pity it is so impossible to point this out to Consumer Reports:
They dont take reader reports / recommendations)

Basically because its impossible to decide if the
readers have managed to get the basics right.

You certainly havent above.

 

[Rod Speed]

True. Someone should make manufacturers to give warranty for data, too

No thanks, not interested in what they would do to the price of the drives.

Anyone with a clue backs up stuff thats irreplaceable using
dirt cheap cdrom burners or DVD burners with video material.

and not only that drive will work OK. Until there's
data warranty, this will continue to happen.

And there wont ever be a data warranty
required of drive manufacturers, you watch.

What will happen is that more and more have a clue and realise
that the only thing that makes any sense at all is to backup
irreplaceable data. The hardware costs peanuts for PCs now.

 

[SleeperMan]

No thanks, not interested in what they would do to the price of the
drives.

Price should remain the same in warranty period...(yeah, i know: keep
dreaming...)

Anyone with a clue backs up stuff thats irreplaceable using
dirt cheap cdrom burners or DVD burners with video material.

You're right. BUT....i'm not talking about data, which is irreplaceable, but
whole system. It takes quite a few hours to get system to work again. And
days before you have it all installed. I do backup all my data, but this
didn't prevent me from spending hours (TWICE!!!!!) to restore my XP again.
That's why i have RAID 1 and image of C: on second partition and hoping that
both drives won't die at the same time...

And there wont ever be a data warranty
required of drive manufacturers, you watch.

What will happen is that more and more have a clue and realise
that the only thing that makes any sense at all is to backup
irreplaceable data. The hardware costs peanuts for PCs now.

True again. Anyone who yawns about important data lost is an idiot.

 

[SleeperMan]

Nope, I dont see anything like that failure rate.


I just bin those IBM drives instead.


Thats a myth. The IBM GXP drives certainly did have
a design problem, but that wasnt deliberate and there is
no evidence that say the 180GXPs still have that problem.


Complete myth. I havent discarded a PC because its
died in a long time. Just for other reasons like socket 7
motherboards being a pain in the arse on the price of memory.


Mindless conspiracy theory.


It isnt even possible to design a PC to fail after a few
years. And very few do fail after a few year anyway.


Nope, its a completely mindless myth.


What will actually happen is that it eventually
dawns on fools like that that they have to write the
irreplaceable stuff like that to multiple CDs or DVDs.


There is no such 'problem'


The absolute vast bulk of drives get discarded because
they are too small for the substantial collections of mp3 and
photos that so many are choosing to store on their PCs now.

And only the pig ignorant fools dont have those backed
up on multiple CDs and DVDs when those are so cheap.


Sure, there will always be examples of that sort of problem.

Thats nothing to do with the utterly mindless conspiracy
theory that claims that the use of those was deliberate
to get people to replace PCs after a year to two tho.


Basically because its impossible to decide if the
readers have managed to get the basics right.

You certainly havent above.

Official IBM repairman told me that 120 GXP series drives work in appr. 60%,
while about 40% die. That's not average, but damn bad.
Second, I agree that error in design wasn't intentional, the point was that
IBM never admitted that it has design error!! That's relly shame on them.
Everyone can make a mistake, but at least he should say "i'm sorry" or admit
the problem, not play a fool of consumers...They did replace them, but never
admitt it's design error. They stop to produce them supposely because they
doesn't sell very well (i wonder why)...
what a bollock

 

[J. Clarke]

Official IBM repairman told me that 120 GXP series drives work in appr.
60%, while about 40% die.

Uh huh. They tell you that and expect to keep their jobs. I don't _think_
so. In any case, it was not the 120 GXP series that people were
complaining about, it was the 75GXP. If the 120s were causing any
significant amount of trouble I'd expect to see people whining about it.
But all of that is beside the point--neither is still in production.

That's not average, but damn bad.
Second, I agree that error in design wasn't intentional, the point was
that IBM never admitted that it has design error!!

Why would they want to do that? That's up to the plaintiffs to prove,
which, so far, they don't seem to be having much luck doing. Or maybe the
ambulance chasers who are trying to bring the suit can't muster enough
complaints to recover court costs.

That's relly shame on
them. Everyone can make a mistake, but at least he should say "i'm sorry"
or admit the problem, not play a fool of consumers...

Uh huh, and then pay out huge amounts to every ambulance chaser who knows
someone whose drive died?

They did replace
them, but never admitt it's design error. They stop to produce them
supposely because they doesn't sell very well (i wonder why)...

Well, actually they divested that business for the same reason they are
divesting a lot of their hardware production--they don't see themselves as
being in the hardware business much longer--they're going after the service
market.

 

[Rod Speed]

Price should remain the same in warranty period...

Not a clue about economic basics.

(yeah, i know: keep dreaming...)

Thats a pathetic little pig ignorant hallucination.

You're right. BUT....i'm not talking about data, which is irreplaceable,
but whole system. It takes quite a few hours to get system to work
again. And days before you have it all installed.

If you care about that time, you're always welcome to back that up too.

I do backup all my data, but this didn't prevent me from
spending hours (TWICE!!!!!) to restore my XP again.

See above.

That's why i have RAID 1 and image of C: on second partition
and hoping that both drives won't die at the same time...

No need to hope if you have a DVD burner.

True again. Anyone who yawns about important data lost is an idiot.

So we wont be seeing data warrantys, you watch. They're
never going to be economically feasible for anything except
packaged RAID5 arrays etc and those wont be economically
practical for personal desktop systems any time soon.

The only thing that makes any sense at all is proper
backups at whatever level you choose to bother with.

 

[Rod Speed]

Official IBM repairman told me that 120 GXP series
drives work in appr. 60%, while about 40% die.

Dont believe it unless thats the last of the GXPs with the
design problem they have never had the balls to fess up to.

That's not average, but damn bad.

None of the other manufacturers current drives are anything like that bad.

Second, I agree that error in design wasn't intentional, the
point was that IBM never admitted that it has design error!!

The point is that since its a design error, it doesnt apply to any
more than that drive family. So the claims above all current drives
is mindlessly silly and just another utterly mindless conspiracy theory.

That's relly shame on them. Everyone can make
a mistake, but at least he should say "i'm sorry"
or admit the problem, not play a fool of consumers...

Yep, and thats one of the reasons I wont buy
any of their drives, even their latest drives.

They're welcome to shove them where the sun dont shine, sideways.

They did replace them,

And usually the replacements had the same problem. Utterly obscene.

but never admitt it's design error. They stop
to produce them supposely because they
doesn't sell very well (i wonder why)...
what a bollock

Yep, and unless there is hard evidence that Hitachi has got their
act into gear now, and there aint a shred of that, they can shove
their drives where the sun dont shine as far as I am concerned.

Bet that news will have the Hitachi suits pouring from
their windows like lemmings once they find out |-)

 

[SleeperMan]

Dont believe it unless thats the last of the GXPs with the
design problem they have never had the balls to fess up to.


None of the other manufacturers current drives are anything like that
bad.


The point is that since its a design error, it doesnt apply to any
more than that drive family. So the claims above all current drives
is mindlessly silly and just another utterly mindless conspiracy
theory.


Yep, and thats one of the reasons I wont buy
any of their drives, even their latest drives.

They're welcome to shove them where the sun dont shine, sideways.


And usually the replacements had the same problem. Utterly obscene.

Tell me about it... i've had two 75 GXP drives - both died. Now i have two
of 120 GXP drives, one of them makes those stupid clicks.
I know that 75 series had problems, not 120, but reseller told that for
today situation, so since mine drive ****s, i bet 120 series also have
problems.

 

[My father's son]

You seem to have ignored the fact that I have had so many drives die
completely during periods of non-use. Or die in front of my very eyes
(actually after non-use) while I was trying to start using them again. Look
up in my threads: You will see that I had drives which just simply failed
for no apparent reason when reinserted in computers and couldnt be revived
and (in this case) one drive which started clicking on use and destroyed its
mbr which apparently cannot be rebuilt if you cant write to the mbr sector.

I am amazed that someone who sets himself up as an expert can fail to think
that something is wrong with a situation in which a drive can start to click
and that that clicking can be related to the power cord going to the drive
and that mysteriously at the same time the drive cant write to the MBR
sector. Is THIS in some way related to what you see as the conspiracy
theory?

I am not saying that I suffer from this but I simply dont think it is fair
to tell all those users who are now buying digital cameras and storing
thousands of photos on their computers that they should have known to back
up their data. Don't YOU think they have some basis for relying on their
computer manufacturers who spend billions telling everybody in their ads and
PR how reliable their computers are?

 

[J. Clarke]

You seem to have ignored the fact that I have had so many drives die
completely during periods of non-use.

How were they stored? Static bags with fresh dessicant?

Or die in front of my very eyes
(actually after non-use) while I was trying to start using them again.

Not uncommon for electronics to die on startup. Stresses are generally
highes then.

Look up in my threads: You will see that I had drives which just simply
failed for no apparent reason when reinserted in computers and couldnt be
revived and (in this case) one drive which started clicking on use and
destroyed its mbr which apparently cannot be rebuilt if you cant write to
the mbr sector.

I am amazed that someone who sets himself up as an expert can fail to
think that something is wrong with a situation in which a drive can start
to click and that that clicking can be related to the power cord going to
the drive and that mysteriously at the same time the drive cant write to
the MBR
sector.

Uh, what is "wrong" with something failing due to a power problem? Maybe in
some idealized universe it doesn't happen but this is the real world.
Deal.

Is THIS in some way related to what you see as the conspiracy
theory?

I am not saying that I suffer from this but I simply dont think it is fair
to tell all those users who are now buying digital cameras and storing
thousands of photos on their computers that they should have known to back
up their data.

Well, they should have. If you think that it is possible to make a storage
device that will never fail, I have a nice bridge connecting the best ski
resort in Iowa with a nice piece of waterfront property in Florida . . .

Don't YOU think they have some basis for relying on their
computer manufacturers who spend billions telling everybody in their ads
and PR how reliable their computers are?

I don't recall ever seeing anyone other than Tandem advertising how reliable
their computers are. Who has spent billions of dollars on such
advertising?

 

[Rod Speed]

You seem to have ignored the fact that I have had so
many drives die completely during periods of non-use.

You havent established that they do. You may well have
killed them in the process of removing them for the non use.

I certainly dont get drives dying when left not being used.
And I have quite a few that are now too small for modern
OSs and apps, and too slow to be worth using anymore.
I do ocassionally use one in a test or temporary config
and I havent actually found one dead after non use.

Or die in front of my very eyes (actually after non-use)
while I was trying to start using them again.

The obvious explanation there is that you are too rough with
the drives and are killing them in the process of removing
them and using them again after a period of non use.

Look up in my threads:

Dont need to, I know what you said in them.

You will see that I had drives which just simply failed for no apparent
reason when reinserted in computers and couldnt be revived

That set of symptoms can be explained by you being too rough with
the drives when they were out of the PC or being removed and installed.

and (in this case) one drive which started clicking on use

Thats the drive recalibrating when it cant see the data
on the platters. Just another way a dead drive behaves.

and destroyed its mbr

You dont know that that aint just a symptom of
the failure, that the mbr cant be read anymore.

which apparently cannot be rebuilt if you cant write to the mbr sector.

You can always write to that sector if the drive doesnt have a fault.

I am amazed that someone who sets himself up as an expert

Obvious lie. I do nothing of the sort.

can fail to think that something is wrong with a situation in which
a drive can start to click and that that clicking can be related to
the power cord going to the drive and that mysteriously at the
same time the drive cant write to the MBR sector.

I pointed out what is wrong, there is clearly a bad joint or cracked
trace to the power connector on the drive and that is normally
caused by being too rough removing the power connector from
the power supply from the power connector on the drive.

Some drives are quite flexible in the pcb area around
the power connector and those molex connectors can be
surprisingly tight and it doesnt take much to damage the drive.

Is THIS in some way related to what you see as the conspiracy theory?

You were the one claiming that drive manufacturers design
the drives to fail quite soon after the warranty has expired.

Thats an utterly silly conspiracy theory.

I am not saying that I suffer from this but I simply dont
think it is fair to tell all those users who are now buying
digital cameras and storing thousands of photos on their
computers that they should have known to back up their data.

Your problem. There is no other viable approach.

A small percentage of all hard drives will always die,
just like with any electronic device with mechanical parts.

You get to like that or lump it.

There will also be a percentage of PCs stolen and destroyed
by house fires too. You get to like that or lump that too.

Don't YOU think they have some basis for relying on their
computer manufacturers who spend billions telling everybody
in their ads and PR how reliable their computers are?

Not one is ever stupid enough to claim that
not a single one of their systems will ever die.

Thats what backups are for, when a small percentage do.

 

[My father's son]

Rod

I suppose you are right but the drive is quite old and has nothing of great
value on it: Basically I was keeping it as a drive I Could use if another
one which was the main drive on some computer failed as it had an OS on it
and kept its files on another drive

SO it is only about 1.2 gig. Not worth playing around with

MFS

 

[chrisv]

Tell me about it... i've had two 75 GXP drives - both died. Now i have two
of 120 GXP drives, one of them makes those stupid clicks.

Serves you right. They burn you twice yet you go back for more? I
bet you keep buying GM cars, too.

 

[chrisv]

Why would they want to do that? That's up to the plaintiffs to prove,
which, so far, they don't seem to be having much luck doing.

Yeah, it's a sad fact that admitting it would have been stupid,
especially considering that they decided to sell the operation. With
no future, customers need not be please beyond the legal requirements
of the warrantee. Plus, any bad publicity would have hurt the value
of the business that they were trying to sell.

The businessman is an evil creature, never forget. His ONLY goal is
to extract as much money from your pocket as he can.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yeah, it's a sad fact that admitting it would have been stupid,
especially considering that they decided to sell the operation. With
no future, customers need not be please beyond the legal requirements
of the warrantee. Plus, any bad publicity would have hurt the value
of the business that they were trying to sell.

The businessman is an evil creature, never forget. His ONLY
goal is to extract as much money from your pocket as he can.

More mindlessly superficial silly stuff.