cleaning up dust inside Dell inspiron 1100

[kony]

Yes, it fluctuates and increases when I do CPU intensive work. At some
point the system fan says 4095 RPM high and more or less stays in the
range of 3800-4200RPM. Is that generally too high for my machine(P4
2.2Ghz)? I understand fan speed mainly depends on CPU load and with
increase in load it needs to rotate faster but is the range
3800-4200RPM normal considering the maximum work I do is few(4-5)
browser tabs in one window with an Internet Explorer(IE) 7 browser. I
have ZoneAlarm and Symantec Client Security running besides the regular
windows processes. But these were also present on my XP home and Win 2k
except I had IE 6 instead of 7 then.

Rod is leading you down a false path.

The operating system does not matter. If you have not
upgraded your bios, nor made any bios changes, the bios does
not matter either, nor does the CPU temp report or CPU temp
in relation to the fan RPM (speed) it causes.

If there is something running on your OS that is causing the
CPU to run at a higher than usual load, that will make it
run hotter but we can ignore that entirely for the time
being and handle one issue at a time.

The one issue to tackle first, is to determine whether the
fan at high RPM, is now significantly louder than it was
when the laptop was new(er). The following two points are
of a comparison between similar, highly demanding use both
now, and when laptop was newer:

- If it is not significantly louder, the fan is not likely
to need replaced (yet, but it will continue to age,
eventually it might need replaced but there would be no
indication it is necessary at this time).

- If it is significantly louder, there is no point in
focusing on anything else yet, until you have replaced that
fan.

You do not need to focus on what RPM it has per some
specific moderate use, that will depend on ambient temp and
notebook design, as well as things running in the
background. I should not have even written this paragraph
because you should not be considering it at all, ONLY
whether the fan is now louder than it used to be at a
similar load.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod is leading you down a false path.

We'll see...

The operating system does not matter.

Never said it did.

If you have not upgraded your bios, nor made any bios changes,
the bios does not matter either, nor does the CPU temp report
or CPU temp in relation to the fan RPM (speed) it causes.

That last is the evidence that the cpu temp is still being seen,
and that its still possible to control the fan RPM. In other
words there hasnt been a hardware failure in that area.

If there is something running on your OS that is causing
the CPU to run at a higher than usual load, that will make it
run hotter but we can ignore that entirely for the time being

Particularly when he already said that the cpu
% in the task manager isnt anything special.

and handle one issue at a time.

The one issue to tackle first, is to determine whether
the fan at high RPM, is now significantly louder than
it was when the laptop was new(er).

Not even possible now.

The following two points are of a comparison between similar,
highly demanding use both now, and when laptop was newer:

- If it is not significantly louder, the fan is not likely
to need replaced (yet, but it will continue to age,
eventually it might need replaced but there would
be no indication it is necessary at this time).

- If it is significantly louder, there is no point in focusing
on anything else yet, until you have replaced that fan.

Pity there is no way to determine if its louder now than it was when new.

You do not need to focus on what RPM it has per some
specific moderate use, that will depend on ambient temp
and notebook design, as well as things running in the
background. I should not have even written this paragraph
because you should not be considering it at all, ONLY
whether the fan is now louder than it used to be at a similar load.

Pity there is no way to determine if its louder now than it was when new.

 

[s]

If you have not upgraded your bios, nor made any bios changes,

That last is the evidence that the cpu temp is still being seen,
and that its still possible to control the fan RPM. In other
words there hasnt been a hardware failure in that area.

Apologies folks. Had I stored/backed up the diagnostic disks this could
be a lot simpler as then I need to just run the Dell diagnostic on the
fan and temperature sensors to determine if it was a hardware fault or
not. Guess, I need to be more careful.

Not even possible now.

Here I am little unclear. I think it is louder than when it was new
both at high and low loads. But it is hard for me to find out how much
can be considered "significantly louder" as I don't know much about
laptop hardware. I don't recall before 3 years fan noise disturbing me
but now it is(at low or high loads). I hope to image my current system
tommorow and try XP home on it. Then, hopefully it could be more clear.


Could dust on other parts be the reason? I understand it is unlikely
that CPU fan is moving too fast due to dust on some other components.

I sincerely appreciate both(Rod,Kony) your aid and all others who
attempted to help me. I apologize that my carelessness is causing
unnecessary confusion.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Rod Speed]

Apologies folks. Had I stored/backed up the diagnostic disks this
could be a lot simpler as then I need to just run the Dell diagnostic
on the fan and temperature sensors to determine if it was a
hardware fault or not. Guess, I need to be more careful.

Yeah, worth worth it when the brown stuff hits the fan.

Here I am little unclear. I think it is louder than when it was new
both at high and low loads. But it is hard for me to find out how much
can be considered "significantly louder" as I don't know much about
laptop hardware. I don't recall before 3 years fan noise disturbing me
but now it is(at low or high loads). I hope to image my current system
tommorow and try XP home on it. Then, hopefully it could be more clear.

Could dust on other parts be the reason?

Shouldnt be, I've never seen a situation where dust affects the
noise except when the dust stops the fan from cooling as well
and so a variable speed fan, which that Dell has, runs faster to
get the temperature down better with the higher fan speed.

Guess that is possible if the outlet for the air
from the laptop is all clogged up with fur etc.

I understand it is unlikely that CPU fan is moving
too fast due to dust on some other components.

It can do if the outlet for the air from the laptop is all clogged with fur.

I sincerely appreciate both(Rod,Kony) your aid and all
others who attempted to help me. I apologize that my
carelessness is causing unnecessary confusion.

No problem, these more complicated problems are more interesting that the obvious stuff.

Thanks a lot.

You're welcome.

 

[s]

Apologies folks. Had I stored/backed up the diagnostic disks this

Yeah, worth worth it when the brown stuff hits the fan.

Well, the person whom I contacted had a crack in his Dell
driver/diagnostic CD so it was unusable. But, he had saved the driver
and diagnostic files on his hard disk before his CD got cracked. He
gave me those files. I thought I could make a bootable CD using those
files, boot using that disc and run the Dell diagnostics from that
point. I tinkered using MagicISO but was unsuccessful in making a
bootable disc out of the driver and diagnostic files. Hence, I could
not run Dell diagnostics on the Temperature Sensor and Fan. I tried the
diagnostics from Dell's site at
http://support.dell.com/support/dow...&typecnt=1&libid=13&releaseid=R76924&vercnt=3
but it failed saying I did not have a diagnostic partition.

I imaged my XP Prof and loaded XP home but the fan noise is still
present as it was in XP Prof.

From the link

http://www.danandsherree.com/2005/04/02/our_dell_inspiron_11.php
I think the heating problem could be a little common.

I did not clean my CPU fan as thoroughly as explained in the link
http://www.danandsherree.com/2005/04/02/our_dell_inspiron_11.php when I
opened and removed the dust. I just cleaned the dust using a small
brush but did not use grease and other materials as in that link. Could
that be the issue?

Is it advisable that I try a thorough cleaning as explained in that
link?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Rod Speed]

Well, the person whom I contacted had a crack
in his Dell driver/diagnostic CD so it was unusable.

You were warned about that furious drunken grave dancing |-(

But, he had saved the driver and diagnostic files on his hard disk
before his CD got cracked. He gave me those files. I thought I
could make a bootable CD using those files, boot using that disc
and run the Dell diagnostics from that point. I tinkered using
MagicISO but was unsuccessful in making a bootable disc
out of the driver and diagnostic files. Hence, I could not
run Dell diagnostics on the Temperature Sensor and Fan.

You should be able to get a new one from Dell.

It will likely have the same problem below tho.

I tried the diagnostics from Dell's site at
http://support.dell.com/support/dow...&typecnt=1&libid=13&releaseid=R76924&vercnt=3
but it failed saying I did not have a diagnostic partition.

Yeah, likely you wiped it when you first installed 2K.

I imaged my XP Prof and loaded XP home but
the fan noise is still present as it was in XP Prof.

What does it say about the diagnostic partition now ?
If it still says that its still missing, you havent got back
to the original config where you got a quiet fan.

From the link
http://www.danandsherree.com/2005/04/02/our_dell_inspiron_11.php
I think the heating problem could be a little common.

I did not clean my CPU fan as thoroughly as explained in the link
http://www.danandsherree.com/2005/04/02/our_dell_inspiron_11.php when
I opened and removed the dust. I just cleaned the dust using a small
brush but did not use grease and other materials as in that link.
Could that be the issue?

No, your previously reported cpu temps are fine.

Is it advisable that I try a thorough cleaning as explained in that link?

Its unlikely to be the problem.

 

[s]

You should be able to get a new one from Dell.

No, they refuse to even talk to me about the issue saying my warranty
has expired before 2 years.
They are advising to purchase support per incident if I seek their help
or look up Dell's site.

It will likely have the same problem below tho.


Yeah, likely you wiped it when you first installed 2K.


What does it say about the diagnostic partition now ?
If it still says that its still missing, you havent got back
to the original config where you got a quiet fan.

Same as in XP Prof(It failed saying I did not have a diagnostic
partition).
What is a diagnostic partition and how could Dell create that and I
cannot recreate that?
Also, is creating a bootable CD from certain files quite difficult that
I cannot do that even though I have all the files?
I understand it needs some sort of boot
image loader but how does Dell does these things which are difficult
for normal users?

No, your previously reported cpu temps are fine.


Its unlikely to be the problem.

What is the next step I should take now? Should I try loading Win 2k or
is replacing the fan only option?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Rod Speed]

No, they refuse to even talk to me about the issue
saying my warranty has expired before 2 years.

They are advising to purchase support per
incident if I seek their help or look up Dell's site.

Same as in XP Prof(It failed saying I did not have a diagnostic partition).

What is a diagnostic partition

Its a partition on the hard drive that Dell puts there initially and which
is used to contain the various Dell special stuff that Dell puts in there.

Its less than clear if that includes some software to control the fan speed.

and how could Dell create that

That is done at the time the hard drive is loaded initially.

and I cannot recreate that?

The entire hard drive is normally written from another drive at manufacturing time.

Also, is creating a bootable CD from certain files quite
difficult that I cannot do that even though I have all the files?

The problem is that there are a variety of formats for a bootable CD
and you obviously need to write it in the format that Dell chose to use.
It'd be simpler to see if you can get someone to copy their existing
CD for you. Maybe try the dell newsgroups.

I understand it needs some sort of boot image loader but how
does Dell does these things which are difficult for normal users?

Most likely it will still want to see the diagnostic parition.

What is the next step I should take now?

I'd try to get the hard drive back to its original state and
see if that sees a return of the original fan speed control.

Should I try loading Win 2k

I dont expect that that would help. Are you sure that you didnt
have the diagnostic partition initially when you first loaded 2K ?
Hard to be sure now tho.

or is replacing the fan only option?

No evidence that it needs replacing given that Speedfan can control it fine.

I'd personally try to get the hard drive diagnostic partition back.
Maybe paying Dell for per incident support might be a viable way to do that.

 

[s]

The problem is that there are a variety of formats for a bootable CD

and you obviously need to write it in the format that Dell chose to use.

Or maybe this link http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/recreate.htm
could help me. Problem is my machine does not have a floppy drive and
though my BIOS sees USB devices I am unclear if it could support
booting from a USB floppy drive.

It'd be simpler to see if you can get someone to copy their existing
CD for you. Maybe try the dell newsgroups.

Main issue is I cannot get a diagnostic CD for my model. I know only
one person who had the same model as mine and his CD also failed.
By copy an existing CD(in the event I manage to get one) you mean I
should clone it, do a bit by bit copy or what is the correct format to
make a bootable CD from another in general and for my case so that it
works with my Dell?

I'd try to get the hard drive back to its original state and
see if that sees a return of the original fan speed control.

How can I now convert my current disk to the original state as Dell
gave me?
Had I got a disk image at that point it could be possible but now it
may be difficult to get there.

I dont expect that that would help. Are you sure that you didnt
have the diagnostic partition initially when you first loaded 2K ?
Hard to be sure now tho.

I don't recall for sure what was there at that point. But, yes I loaded
2k on the new disk Dell gave me. My original disk had XP home. It
failed in 17 months
and Dell gave me a new one for some cost. I loaded 2k on that one. It
was working fine till the last 4 months. It came as a new disk from
Dell, so it might have contained the diagnostic partition and so the
fan could be working fine. The fan going too loud since last 4 months
on the 2k could be perhaps due to dust or maybe something else(fan or
heatsink malfunction). My case is quite unclear.

Is it likely that heatsink could be having issues? I understand it is
quite important in the cooling.

No evidence that it needs replacing given that Speedfan can control it fine.

Yes, Ik8fangui can control it fine and probably many Dell users use
that also.

I'd personally try to get the hard drive diagnostic partition back.

I need to follow instructions at this link
http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/recreate.htm to get the hard drive
diagnostic partition back.

Maybe paying Dell for per incident support might be a viable way to do that.

From my experience of Dell's support it is quite unlikely that Dell per

incident support may be able to fix that. When I was in the 1 year
warranty period and called them for support they could not help me. My
searching and seeking help on newsgroups only helped.
My case needs lot of time/resources and generally those per incident
support help successfully fix issues if it is due to a spyware/virus.
Likely, they may say too old fan/BIOS as I find incidents here
http://www.danandsherree.com/2005/04/02/our_dell_inspiron_11.php

I appreciate your's(and all who helped me) assistance and time. Thanks
a lot.

 

[Rod Speed]

Or maybe this link http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/recreate.htm
could help me.

Certainly worth a try.

Problem is my machine does not have a floppy drive
and though my BIOS sees USB devices I am unclear
if it could support booting from a USB floppy drive.

You dont need to boot from a floppy to follow his proceedure.
You can do all that from a bootable CD instead.

The Ultimate Boot CD for DOS would be a good place to start.

Main issue is I cannot get a diagnostic CD for my model.

Yes, but that is one way to do that.

I know only one person who had the same model as mine and his CD also failed.

Yes, that's why I suggested the dell newsgroups to find someone else.

By copy an existing CD(in the event I manage to get
one) you mean I should clone it, do a bit by bit copy

Yes, any of the CD writing software can do that. I prefer
Roxio Easy Media Creator myself, just because the user
interface is more intuitive, but Nero and a variety of free
ones can do that. Its usually called copy with CDs.

or what is the correct format to make a bootable CD from another
in general and for my case so that it works with my Dell?

Just make a copy of the bootable CD. Obviously it would be best for
the individual that has a good one to do that for you and send it to you.

Or they can just make an ISO of their CD and
you can turn that into a physical CD yourself.

How can I now convert my current disk to the original state as Dell gave me?

Using that mechanism you posted a link to.

Had I got a disk image at that point it could be
possible but now it may be difficult to get there.

That proceedure you posted the link to isnt that hard.

I don't recall for sure what was there at that point.
But, yes I loaded 2k on the new disk Dell gave me.

Its not clear if they installed the diagnostic
partition onto that before they sent it to you.

My original disk had XP home. It failed in 17 months and Dell
gave me a new one for some cost. I loaded 2k on that one. It
was working fine till the last 4 months. It came as a new disk from
Dell, so it might have contained the diagnostic partition and so
the fan could be working fine. The fan going too loud since last
4 months on the 2k could be perhaps due to dust or maybe something
else(fan or heatsink malfunction). My case is quite unclear.

Its unlikely to be dust since it still appears to be running
at full speed now even with the dust cleaned out.

Is it likely that heatsink could be having issues?
I understand it is quite important in the cooling.

Yes, but your temperatures seen quite reasonable.

Yes, Ik8fangui can control it fine and probably many Dell users use that also.

I need to follow instructions at this link
http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/recreate.htm
to get the hard drive diagnostic partition back.

Yes, and that shouldnt be hard to do using the UBCD4DOS

From my experience of Dell's support it is quite unlikely that Dell per
incident support may be able to fix that. When I was in the 1 year
warranty period and called them for support they could not help me.

Dunno, they may have some way of putting the diagnostic partition
back or and would be able to sell you a restore CD for that system.

My searching and seeking help on newsgroups only helped.
My case needs lot of time/resources and generally those per incident
support help successfully fix issues if it is due to a spyware/virus.

Its for a lot more than just that.

Likely, they may say too old fan/BIOS as I find incidents here
http://www.danandsherree.com/2005/04/02/our_dell_inspiron_11.php

Trouble is that you never see reports of them fixing that problem
because those that do get fixed dont bother to report that.

It would certainly be worth trying to put the diagnostic partition
back yourself now that you have found a way to do that.

I appreciate your's(and all who helped me) assistance and time. Thanks a lot.

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for
and like I said, I like the more complicated problems too.

 

[s]

By copy an existing CD(in the event I manage to get

Yes, any of the CD writing software can do that. I prefer
Roxio Easy Media Creator myself, just because the user
interface is more intuitive, but Nero and a variety of free
ones can do that. Its usually called copy with CDs.


Just make a copy of the bootable CD. Obviously it would be best for
the individual that has a good one to do that for you and send it to you.

Well, I tried to make a copy of bootable XP Home which came with my
computer to prevent loss like my driver CD. When I tried copy with CD
with my Nero it failed with a unrecoverable write error. What I tried
was copy the source(XP home which came with my machine) to a image
recorder(because my system has only one CD writer). That tried to
create a file with .nrg extension on my desktop. The copying process
said CD is copyright protected, went fine till 82% and then failed with
an unrecoverable read error. The CD is fine because I used it only days
before to install XP Home.

Then, I copied the CD (XP home which came with my machine) contents to
a location on hard disk and tried copying from the location at hard
disk to a blank CD. But, the blank CD is not bootable.

Did I do something incorrectly?

Or they can just make an ISO of their CD and
you can turn that into a physical CD yourself.

Should I make an ISO of my XP home CD which came with my machine and
then try to convert it to a physical CD. If so how can I make a correct
ISO?

I tried this with MagicISO with Dell driver CD contents but it did not
work. What I did was copy the Dell driver CD contents which I got from
my friend in a flash drive to a location in my hard disk. Then, using
MagicISO I tried to create a bootable ISO image of it. After the ISO
image was created I chose the option of Burn Image to disc in Nero.
The Dell driver CD(which my friend had one point before it got
corrupted) was bootable but the CD I created was not. Could it be
because I made an ISO image from a hard disk location or was I doing
something else wrong?

Yes, but your temperatures seen quite reasonable.

What is reasonable temperature for my CPU? I understand as I was told
it depends on design, ambient temperature and several other factors?

Dunno, they may have some way of putting the diagnostic partition
back or and would be able to sell you a restore CD for that system.

Well, I called Dell today. They took my information, found I was out of
warranty. Transferred me to somebody(who in turn transferred me to
somebody) and in the end I was at a number which was not working. It
instructed me to call back again at the main number. I did that and the
procedure repeated three times after which I gave up. They gave me a
ticket number but nobody helped me. I think it was deliberate on their
part to transfer me to a non-existent number. The same mistake
happening thrice with the same person on the same day seems far
fetched. I will call them again and hope I can purchase a Inspiron 1100
diagnostic CD from them.

Trouble is that you never see reports of them fixing that problem
because those that do get fixed dont bother to report that.

My personal experience today and in the past with Dell's support is not
quite good. Also, it is unlikely the person on phone can fix a problem
which is not getting fixed after a lot of time and help from experts in
hardware(like you and all others who assisted me).

It would certainly be worth trying to put the diagnostic partition
back yourself now that you have found a way to do that.

I will try and hope I succeed.

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for
and like I said, I like the more complicated problems too.

Thanks very much. I am just curious if you don't mind my question. How
do you(all other experts in this group) manage to contribute a lot to
this newsgroup. Generally, I find it hard to complete my daily tasks
within the given time frame. Hence, I always wonder how people with a
one or two full time jobs manage to find additional time for peope like
me? This can help me become a better time manager. I also devote some
time to help people with their software issues but in person rather
than in newsgroups. Also, that is not regular but as per needs.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Rod Speed]

Well, I tried to make a copy of bootable XP Home which came with my
computer to prevent loss like my driver CD. When I tried copy with CD
with my Nero it failed with a unrecoverable write error. What I tried
was copy the source(XP home which came with my machine) to a image
recorder(because my system has only one CD writer). That tried to
create a file with .nrg extension on my desktop. The copying process
said CD is copyright protected, went fine till 82% and then failed
with an unrecoverable read error. The CD is fine because I used it
only days before to install XP Home.

Thats why I avoid Nero, lousy user interface.

Then, I copied the CD (XP home which came with my machine)
contents to a location on hard disk and tried copying from the
location at hard disk to a blank CD. But, the blank CD is not bootable.

Did I do something incorrectly?

Yes, that second approach wont work with a bootable CD.

Should I make an ISO of my XP home CD which came
with my machine and then try to convert it to a physical CD.

No, that is just so you can move the iso via the net and
not have to wait for a copied CD to show up in the post.

If so how can I make a correct ISO?

I tried this with MagicISO with Dell driver CD contents but it did
not work. What I did was copy the Dell driver CD contents which
I got from my friend in a flash drive to a location in my hard disk.

Thats where you are going wrong.

Then, using MagicISO I tried to create a bootable ISO image of it.
After the ISO image was created I chose the option of Burn Image
to disc in Nero. The Dell driver CD(which my friend had one point
before it got corrupted) was bootable but the CD I created was not.

Because you did the first step wrong.

Could it be because I made an ISO image from a hard disk location

Yes, you need to have MagicISO create an ISO from the CD.

or was I doing something else wrong?
Yes.

What is reasonable temperature for my CPU?

Those temperatures you reported previously are quite reasonable.

I understand as I was told it depends on design,
ambient temperature and several other factors?

Yes it does, but those temperatures you reported previously are quite reasonable.

Well, I called Dell today. They took my information, found I was out
of warranty. Transferred me to somebody(who in turn transferred me
to somebody) and in the end I was at a number which was not working.
It instructed me to call back again at the main number. I did that and
the procedure repeated three times after which I gave up. They gave
me a ticket number but nobody helped me. I think it was deliberate on
their part to transfer me to a non-existent number.

Nar, there is a glitch in their system.

The same mistake happening thrice with the same
person on the same day seems far fetched.

Nope, not if there is a problem with the number you got transferred to.

Did you tell them what was happening with your calls ?

I will call them again and hope I can purchase a Inspiron 1100 diagnostic CD from them.

My personal experience today and in the past with Dell's support
is not quite good. Also, it is unlikely the person on phone can fix a
problem which is not getting fixed after a lot of time and help from
experts in hardware(like you and all others who assisted me).

There's a difference between fixing the problem and returning
the hard drive to its original state. I find it hard to believe that
they cant return the hard drive to its original state.

I will try and hope I succeed.

Thanks very much. I am just curious if you don't mind
my question. How do you(all other experts in this group)
manage to contribute a lot to this newsgroup.

Basically I've been doing this sort of thing for quite a few decades now.

Generally, I find it hard to complete my daily tasks within the given
time frame. Hence, I always wonder how people with a one or two
full time jobs manage to find additional time for peope like me?

It doesnt actually take all that much time per day.

I've always operated like that and built my house
doing virtually all the work myself, while working
full time. Very long days, but worth it in the end.

I basically eliminate the crap thats a waste of time, like
mowing lawns, washing cars, doing the shopping etc etc etc.

This can help me become a better time manager. I also
devote some time to help people with their software
issues but in person rather than in newsgroups.

Doing stuff remotely is certainly different to doing it in person.
You basically have to anticipate a lot more and ask specific
questions that cover the possibilitys. Takes a bit of getting
used to but its not that hard. The main problem is with those
who fail to mention some specific crucial bit of info.

 

[s]

Yes, you need to have MagicISO create an ISO from the CD.

Thanks, Now I have a bootable XP home CD in addition to the one which
came with my Inspiron 1100.

The same mistake happening thrice with the same

Nope, not if there is a problem with the number you got transferred to.

Did you tell them what was happening with your calls ?

Yes, they apologized but could not solve it which made me frustrated.

There's a difference between fixing the problem and returning
the hard drive to its original state. I find it hard to believe that
they cant return the hard drive to its original state.

Today, they are telling me to get a new hard drive and say they don't
give(or sell) just Restore CD's for such reasons. When I explained my
problem they told me to get the drivers from their site. I guess
restoring the partition as per the link I found is the only option.

Many thanks to you, Kony, Joel( and all who helped me) for your time
and aid. I sincerely appreciate that.

I hope I can also help somebody someday like you all helped me.
Currently, I do but not as much as folks in this newsgroup do. Another
issue is I am not an expert in hardware(or software for that matter) so
am hesitant in giving advice lest it may be wrong. The people I assist
have fairly simple issues but people asking help on such groups have
quite complex.

Thanks a lot again.