Cleaning Canon nozzles - i950 bubble jet.

[Ron Cohen]

If a service center replaced an i850 with an i560 that was a service center
issue, not a Canon issue. An i850 would be replaced (if needed) with an i860
not an i560. Now if the printer in this example was under warranty, a call
to Canon I am sure would have corrected this.
Also, your method for determining the net 'value' of the hardware is quite
flawed. It may look good on paper, but is not the way things work.

Who said anything about a service center replacing an i850 with an i560? I
didn't. I referenced the i560 since it is based on the i850 and is a current
model. Will you please explain why my method of determining the net cost is
flawed? Considering that most people have to purchase replacement ink tanks
(except for those of us who refill) along with the other factors I
mentioned, it is a cost to consider. How much would you charge to perform
the type of service the OP is seeking? Can you provide some ballpark
estimates for what you think the going rate for this service would be? That
would be helpful information. Unless you really give out bargain rates, I
don't see how it would be more cost effective to spend the money to repair
an out of warranty low cost device instead of replacing it with a new one
which would be covered by warranty? You didn't provide any reasoning as to
why you state "It may look good on paper, but is not the way things work".
Why isn't it the way things work.

 

[Michael]

Perhaps wise not to pay attention to such advice. That is of course unless

you do not care for the printer or your desk.
I have seen on more than one occasion the results of those foolish enough to
simply reset the warning indicator without first performing the needed
service. Tell me, do you just reset your 'Check Engine' and 'Air Bag'
warning indicators on your vehicle also?

Ha ha ha, remember that a printer is not a car and resetting the waste
ink tank indicator has nothing to do with the quality of the
printouts. Even Canon admits that during the life of the printer
(20.000+ pages or about 5 years) ypu shouldn't get that warning.
Maybe you know sth about other printers but about Canon inkjest you
know nothing.

$10 (or even more) would be worth it to keep an i950 PROPERLY operational.

Would it be worth to pay 100$ also ???

Yes, you have demonstrated that some can easily screw up a perfectly good
printer.
Perhaps if you only use an 'AUTHORIZED' service center which has the service
manuals and procedures for each model, you will get correct service
performed.

You not only seem to be uninformed but also naive. The only good
service is the CANON OWN service, not some external companies that
have a CANON "AUTHORIZED SERVICE" logo. Besides, most of these
companies are also HP, LEXMARK, EPSON "AUTHORIZED SERVICEs".

Ahh, but you can in fact be sorely mistaken here. Bad purge means heads do
not clean properly which means possible streaking in printouts or premature
failure of the prunthead. Of course the damage that is possible to the top
of your desk is also a good reason not to follow such shoddy advice.

Another proof of the fact that you are uninformed and telling lies.
You don't know the mechanics of the printer. Waste ink tank doesn't
have ANYTHING to do with the head!!! And the BIG pad @ the bottom of
the printer doesn't let the ink go out of it. Above that, there's no
way of ink to go out of the printer, because the bottom of the printer
is 100% ink-tight. Even if you print 100.000 pages, the sponge won't
get fully saturated.
The head touches only the two little pads @ the top of the mechanism
and the pumps suck the ink down to the waste ink tank which is
saturated mostly at the bottom not at the top. So how can the waste
ink tank affect qaulity? Would like to hear your response on that

You do of course realize that ALL printers have the same sort of mechanism
and that it is required for obvious reasons?

HP's and Lexmarks and Epsons don't have sth like that and they work
fine.
BTW: have you ever seen one of these disassembeled. Do you know where
the ink goes ???

So why do we print 'sth' once a month.

And why do we need to replace the ink tanks? Printer won't go shopping
and do it for us.

Simple fact is this is about your only correct statement.

Unfortunately none of yours is correct.

The printer does
generally take care of itself and with the exception of poor print quality
or a service/error indicator, no user intervention should be required.

Well you obviously don't know that the world goes on and on and
printers have now built-in instructions that tell them, that, say if
the printer wasn't used for 2 months the printer should do a deep
printhead clean OR if it was idle for 1 week a normal printhead clean.
You obviusly don't know that because it isn't written in the manual!
My statement refers to inkjet printers generally (Canons, HPs Lexmarks
and Epsons). For example Lexmark doesn't have above instructions and
thus it is recommended to do a couple of head cleanings before
printing sth after a long period of time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

You should really stop posting on this group because you are simply
not telling facts. Most of your help is totally useless. Your
responses are too general and ALL of the above are uninformative.

Regards,

Mike

 

[Michael]

If you refer to your direct response to the OP, not particularly. Your
response is that of a very uninformed individual and a perfect example of
why folks should always double check the advice received here in the
newsgroups before proceeding to save themselves some grief.

Well, the only one who seems to be uninformed here is YOU. A typical
person who doesn't know much about printers, just an oridinary home
user who is probably even afraid to open up the printer and see how
stupid things is he saying here. You don't know the mechanics, and all
your knowledge looks as if was taken from a printer MANUAL. Besides,
most of your responses is junk (no offence), because they are too
general and above that most of them (as shown in this thread) are
UNINFORMATIVE.

You will do more good and help more people if you stop posting to this
group.

Regards,
Mike

 

[PC Medic]

Ha ha ha, remember that a printer is not a car and resetting the waste
ink tank indicator has nothing to do with the quality of the
printouts. Even Canon admits that during the life of the printer
(20.000+ pages or about 5 years) ypu shouldn't get that warning.
Maybe you know sth about other printers but about Canon inkjest you
know nothing.

Well I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you, but while you
are correct in that you SHOULD not get this during the
AVERAGE life of the printer, you are incorrect in that it can have no affect
on quality and you are certainly giving bad advice when you recommend to
anyone that they should simply reset the error indicator and forget about
it.

operational.

Would it be worth to pay 100$ also ???

No, nor did I specify $100. I would probably consider up to $50 but then
instead would save a little by just getting the 2 year extended warranty
instead and not having to worry about it.

You not only seem to be uninformed but also naive. The only good
service is the CANON OWN service, not some external companies that
have a CANON "AUTHORIZED SERVICE" logo. Besides, most of these
companies are also HP, LEXMARK, EPSON "AUTHORIZED SERVICEs".

That is correct, most service other makes and models, just as most other
service centers (cars, appliances, etc.). That in and of itself says nothing
about their service or work quality. Tell me, where exactly are you going to
walk into "Canon's Own" service and get work done? That's tight, your not!

Another proof of the fact that you are uninformed and telling lies.
You don't know the mechanics of the printer. Waste ink tank doesn't
have ANYTHING to do with the head!!! And the BIG pad @ the bottom of
the printer doesn't let the ink go out of it. Above that, there's no
way of ink to go out of the printer, because the bottom of the printer
is 100% ink-tight. Even if you print 100.000 pages, the sponge won't
get fully saturated.
The head touches only the two little pads @ the top of the mechanism
and the pumps suck the ink down to the waste ink tank which is
saturated mostly at the bottom not at the top. So how can the waste
ink tank affect qaulity? Would like to hear your response on that

Well now, would appear that you have contradicted yourself here. If the
waste ink has nothing to do with the head, then where do you suppose all
that ink over spray and from cleaning cycles goes to? Ahh wait, you already
answered that, the big pad at the bottom of the printer. But wait, that
can't be!!, because that big pad is the Waste Ink Tank (mis nomer) and you
said they have nothing to do with each other. I can also assure you that the
bottom of the printer is NOT 100% ink tight in situations where individuals
think they can simply clear the warning without performing the needed
service. I never said the lower waste ink pad touched the head and you are
correct that the two little pads at the top are what initially help remove
excess ink from the head. They are also part of the purge unit and waste ink
process. One does not function well without the other.

HP's and Lexmarks and Epsons don't have sth like that and they work
fine.
BTW: have you ever seen one of these disassembeled. Do you know where
the ink goes ???

You are mistaken on the other Mfgs and and yes have opened more Canon's than
I can count and those that have been reset without service can be quite a
mess inside and YES, I have seen a number of them that leaked out of the
casing.

And why do we need to replace the ink tanks? Printer won't go shopping
and do it for us.


Unfortunately none of yours is correct.


Well you obviously don't know that the world goes on and on and
printers have now built-in instructions that tell them, that, say if
the printer wasn't used for 2 months the printer should do a deep
printhead clean OR if it was idle for 1 week a normal printhead clean.
You obviusly don't know that because it isn't written in the manual!
My statement refers to inkjet printers generally (Canons, HPs Lexmarks
and Epsons). For example Lexmark doesn't have above instructions and
thus it is recommended to do a couple of head cleanings before
printing sth after a long period of time.

Actaully you are way off on your time tables, but hey, why start getting
anything right now :0)
And are we talking about a Lexmark here, Nope sure wasn't.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

You should really stop posting on this group because you are simply
not telling facts. Most of your help is totally useless. Your
responses are too general and ALL of the above are uninformative.

Regards,

Mike

Blah, blah, blah!!

 

[PC Medic]

"PC Medic" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Well, the only one who seems to be uninformed here is YOU. A typical
person who doesn't know much about printers, just an oridinary home
user who is probably even afraid to open up the printer and see how
stupid things is he saying here. You don't know the mechanics, and all
your knowledge looks as if was taken from a printer MANUAL. Besides,
most of your responses is junk (no offence), because they are too
general and above that most of them (as shown in this thread) are
UNINFORMATIVE.

You will do more good and help more people if you stop posting to this
group.

So let me get this straight, you are saying you have all this knowledge and
more access as you work on these printers all the time?

 

[PC Medic]

length
Who said anything about a service center replacing an i850 with an i560? I
didn't. I referenced the i560 since it is based on the i850 and is a current
model.

I was referencing the above statement "This was in reference to an i850
(replaced by the i560). "
Actually the 550 (not 560) and 850 would be a comparison, though neither is
based on the other.

Will you please explain why my method of determining the net cost is

flawed? Considering that most people have to purchase replacement ink tanks
(except for those of us who refill) along with the other factors I
mentioned, it is a cost to consider.

But you also need to consider that you can not use 'retail' cost figures and
that the manufactures are
not paying that amount for the included inks or the printer in the box.
Where have you factored in, marketing cost, packaging, bundled software
etc.?

How much would you charge to perform
the type of service the OP is seeking? Can you provide some ballpark
estimates for what you think the going rate for this service would be? That
would be helpful information. Unless you really give out bargain rates, I
don't see how it would be more cost effective to spend the money to repair
an out of warranty low cost device instead of replacing it with a new one
which would be covered by warranty? You didn't provide any reasoning as to
why you state "It may look good on paper, but is not the way things work".
Why isn't it the way things work.

Well shop rates vary greatly and many have different In vs Out of warranty
rates.
Some also charge 'Book' time and others charge minimum 1 Hr labor. This
alone can be a big difference.
I have seen the issue discussed here done in shop for as little as $40.
Considering how little there really is that can go wrong, this would be
reasonable. With a little mechanical ability one could even perform this
themselves for a fraction of that cost (and yes the parts are available to
those that would like to do this).

 

[Ron Cohen]

I was referencing the above statement "This was in reference to an i850
(replaced by the i560). "
Actually the 550 (not 560) and 850 would be a comparison, though neither is
based on the other.

I guess the Canon press releases are in error since they state the print
head technology is i850 based. The following is copied from a Canon press
release

" Dramatic improvements in speed and quality found in the i560 printer
compared to its predecessor — the i550 model — are based on the inclusion of
Canon technology found in the multi-award winning Canon i850 photo printer.
This technology includes the i850 unit's print head and many of the print
engine components "

Will you please explain why my method of determining the net cost is

But you also need to consider that you can not use 'retail' cost figures and
that the manufactures are
not paying that amount for the included inks or the printer in the box.
Where have you factored in, marketing cost, packaging, bundled software
etc.?

HUH???? Why should't the retail or street costs be used. That's what the
consumer will pay. It doesn't matter to the consumer how much the
manufacturer has invested in the box in terms of marketing cost, packaging,
bundled software, etc. The amount actually charged to the consumer is what
counts. Let's go over this one more time just in case you haven't actually
grasped what I'm getting at.

1. The printers in question are available in the sub $80 range from a
couple of online sources.
2. BestBuy.com currently has the printer for $89.99 before a $30.00 rebate
which drops the purchase cost to $59.99 (before sales tax).
3. Included with the new printer are consumables worth $48.99 based on
prices of the BCI-3 Multipack at BestBuy.com These items will eventually be
needed even if the user removes the partially used tanks from the old
printer and uses them in the new machine. This is definately a cost factor
to be considered.
4. That drops the effective cost of the printer to $11.00.
5. The printer will have a full warranty and thanks for mentioning the
bundled software. That could possibly make the deal even sweeter, but I'm
not factoring in that item since I don't know what s/w would be included
other than what Canon includes with every printer.

Well shop rates vary greatly and many have different In vs Out of warranty
rates.
Some also charge 'Book' time and others charge minimum 1 Hr labor. This
alone can be a big difference.
I have seen the issue discussed here done in shop for as little as $40.
Considering how little there really is that can go wrong, this would be
reasonable. With a little mechanical ability one could even perform this
themselves for a fraction of that cost (and yes the parts are available to
those that would like to do this).

You state that you've seen the work done in shop for as little as $40. Is
that the going rate or does that mean even more would normally be charged?
Getting back to the above points I presented.
1. The i560 can be purchased for a net cost of $59.99 after rebate.
2. The included consumables are worth $48.99, which leaves an effective
net cost of $11.00.
3. Even without the consumables being factored in, a new printer
w/warranty would only be $59.99, but the minimum cost of the service you
describe would be $40.00. At best this is only a $19.99 difference between
purchasing a new printer and getting an old one repaired. With consumables
considered, a consumer would pay $29.00 less for a new machine than the
minimum cost of servicing the old one.
4. How long would the user be expected to have the printer in the shop?
How much to ship it or travel to the service center? How much time would the
user waste getting it there or packing it up?

If it was your money, what would you do? Once again, I ask you to explain
why "It may look good on paper, but is not the way things work".

I find the majority of your comments to users to be factual and helpful, but
in this one instance I think you aren't getting the picture from a consumers
point of view.

Ron Cohen

 

[B.B. from N.B.]

"B.B. from N.B." <[email protected]> wrote in message

1. If you would pay attention to what people write on this group, you
would know the answer. OK, in case you still don't know, I'll tell
you: you can reset the waste ink tank counter by pressing the buttons
on the printer in the right order (I published the procedure in one of
my previous posts).
So, no need to take the printer to the service.

2. Mo0st of these cases happen when the printer is out of warranty. So
you have to pay for it; how much? Depending on where you live from 10$
to 100$.

3. People in most service centers don't care about printers they
service and with such advanced machines like Canon's printers it is
very likely that they will screw sth up, which is very easy to do.

4. Not changing the pads (the waste ink tank), doesn't affect the
quality of the printouts.

5. Waste ink tank is basically for Canon to keep it's service centers
running.


Printer takes care of itself the best. Just replace the ink tanks, be
sure to print sth at least once a month and everything should be OK.

Mike

Mike,

While I appreciate your advice I really see no reason for you to be so
vicious. Since I am not a regular poster to this newsgroup it isn't so much
that I haven't been paying attention to what is being written as it is that
I haven't had the necessity to read it.

As it turned out, the problem wasn't in the waste ink pads at all but that
the print head had stopped working. I had mis-read the way the printer was
flashing. The service center replaced the print head for me. It cost me a
grand total of $49.00 and I was on my way in approximately 15 minutes. The
printer is working correctly now and I am once again a satisfied customer of
Canon. In fact, 10 minutes ago I was completing a survey commissioned by
Canon and one of the people helping with the survey was an executive from
Canon's New York office. He listened to everything I had to say about the
printer and took copious notes. He also told me they were aware of the
printheads being less durable than customers would like but wasn't sure what
could be done about it.

Lastly, I would be indebted if you could post the procedure for resetting
the waste tank error sequence again. I obviously missed it the first time
around.

Bernie

 

[PC Medic]

i560?

I guess the Canon press releases are in error since they state the print
head technology is i850 based. The following is copied from a Canon press
release

" Dramatic improvements in speed and quality found in the i560 printer
compared to its predecessor - the i550 model - are based on the inclusion of
Canon technology found in the multi-award winning Canon i850 photo printer.
This technology includes the i850 unit's print head and many of the print
engine components "


HUH???? Why should't the retail or street costs be used. That's what the
consumer will pay. It doesn't matter to the consumer how much the
manufacturer has invested in the box in terms of marketing cost, packaging,
bundled software, etc. The amount actually charged to the consumer is what
counts. Let's go over this one more time just in case you haven't actually
grasped what I'm getting at.

Because if the inks are missing from the box (open box purchase) the
retailer is not going to offer up the printer
for a mere $11. Why, because that is not the way the items are priced out
and the manufacture will generally replace missing items.
My point was that it is not as simple, cut & Dry as you would make it seem.

1. The printers in question are available in the sub $80 range from a
couple of online sources.
2. BestBuy.com currently has the printer for $89.99 before a $30.00 rebate
which drops the purchase cost to $59.99 (before sales tax).
3. Included with the new printer are consumables worth $48.99 based on
prices of the BCI-3 Multipack at BestBuy.com These items will eventually be
needed even if the user removes the partially used tanks from the old
printer and uses them in the new machine. This is definately a cost factor
to be considered.
4. That drops the effective cost of the printer to $11.00.
5. The printer will have a full warranty and thanks for mentioning the
bundled software. That could possibly make the deal even sweeter, but I'm
not factoring in that item since I don't know what s/w would be included
other than what Canon includes with every printer.

See above.

rates, as

You state that you've seen the work done in shop for as little as $40. Is
that the going rate or does that mean even more would normally be charged?

Again, based on my points above it can vary. I can only confirm actual
amount I have seen charged out of warranty
(which by the way, was less than in warranty charge to manufacture is.

Getting back to the above points I presented.
1. The i560 can be purchased for a net cost of $59.99 after rebate.
2. The included consumables are worth $48.99, which leaves an effective
net cost of $11.00.

Again, looks good on paper, but try and get them to sell you a new printer
for this amount
simply because it is missing the consumables. And effective price and actual
value are entirely different.
The missing consumables would not devalue the printer itself, only the
overall package, but not by the retail amount of
the missing items. Though it would be a great deal for shoppers if it did!
:0)

3. Even without the consumables being factored in, a new printer
w/warranty would only be $59.99, but the minimum cost of the service you
describe would be $40.00. At best this is only a $19.99 difference between
purchasing a new printer and getting an old one repaired. With consumables
considered, a consumer would pay $29.00 less for a new machine than the
minimum cost of servicing the old one.

Yes, if you had to purchase new consumables to get the printer services.
If I have a i550 and it has near full tanks in it (BCI-3) and needs $40 in
service, then my total cost is still
$40. Get it back from the shop, drop my inks back in and away I go. If I
have cared for the printer
by not passing cheap ink from Johnny's Ink-For-All chances are this printer
will last quite some time
never needing service. I replaced a Waste Ink on my old BJC-610 printer and
it lasted another 2 years before
I gave it away to a local charity.

4. How long would the user be expected to have the printer in the shop?
How much to ship it or travel to the service center? How much time would the
user waste getting it there or packing it up?

Now if you are shipping to a service center you are adding a whole new cost
that the average user would not encounter. In this position, I would trash
it and buy a new printer. In fact Canon now offers a deal I used recently
(Customer Loyalty Program if IIRC) where if it is determined by the help
desk that your out of warranty printer requires service, they will give you
10% off a new printer and free over-night shipping.

If it was your money, what would you do? Once again, I ask you to explain
why "It may look good on paper, but is not the way things work".

see above

I find the majority of your comments to users to be factual and helpful, but
in this one instance I think you aren't getting the picture from a consumers
point of view.

Well as a consumer (and a cheap one at that) I thought this was a consumers
point of view. Just different than yours that's all.

 

[Ron Cohen]

This is becoming hard to follow with all the previous postings being
included. I've snipped as much as possible to hopefully make it a little
clearer.

Because if the inks are missing from the box (open box purchase) the
retailer is not going to offer up the printer
for a mere $11. Why, because that is not the way the items are priced out
and the manufacture will generally replace missing items.
My point was that it is not as simple, cut & Dry as you would make it seem.

No where did I say anything about open box purchase or getting a retailer to
sell the item for only $11.00. Please read the update again. The TOTAL
(overall) cost is what I am referring to. Retail, less rebate = true
purchase cost. These printers are factory fresh and INCLUDE all consumables.
Since the cartridges are worth $48.99 that amount will have to be paid
eventually. Maybe you will be able to comprehend this if you look back at
postings in regards to some Lexmark inkjets. Users have posted that for
certain models it has been less expensive to buy an entirely new printer
when they run out of supplies. Why?? The new printer includes the
consumables and it actually costs less to purchase the printer than it is to
purchase the print cartridges as a supply. This has even been the case with
some Canon printers. It almost is with the i560 which we are discussing.
Staples at one time offered new s820's for $50.00. Since this printer uses
BCI-6 tanks, it was actually less expensive to purchase the printer, keep
the consumables and discard the printer. Recently Office Depot had i860's
for $60.00 after rebate. Again, if someone was going to purchase a set of
replacement cartridges, it would have been just as cheap to get the new
printer, keep the consumables and discard the new i860. This is what I am
trying to get across to you.

eventually

See above.
Ditto

charged?

Failed to answer this one.

Again, based on my points above it can vary. I can only confirm actual
amount I have seen charged out of warranty
(which by the way, was less than in warranty charge to manufacture is.

How much???

Again, looks good on paper, but try and get them to sell you a new printer
for this amount
simply because it is missing the consumables. And effective price and actual
value are entirely different.
The missing consumables would not devalue the printer itself, only the
overall package, but not by the retail amount of
the missing items. Though it would be a great deal for shoppers if it did!
:0)

Where do you get the idea that it would be missing the consumables? It can't
be from anything I've posted. What I have been trying (without success) to
get you to understand is that the net cost is what a consumer would pay in
the long run. At $59.99 you get a new printer with full warranty AND
consumables. Because the consumables are worth $48.99, that makes the new
printer to be worth $11.00. I've never said you could actually get the
printer for $11.00.

Yes, if you had to purchase new consumables to get the printer services.
If I have a i550 and it has near full tanks in it (BCI-3) and needs $40 in
service, then my total cost is still
$40. Get it back from the shop, drop my inks back in and away I go. If I
have cared for the printer
by not passing cheap ink from Johnny's Ink-For-All chances are this printer
will last quite some time
never needing service. I replaced a Waste Ink on my old BJC-610 printer and
it lasted another 2 years before
I gave it away to a local charity.

Will the those ink cartridges last forever and not need to be replaced? If
you do have to replace them, how much will it cost? Could it be $48.99 if
you purchase OEM? In what you described above let's look at it this way. For
a repair cost of $40 (if it's that low) you have the original out of
warranty printer and the existing ink tanks. With a new printer at a net
cost of $59.99 (a difference of $19.99 over the repair only cost), you now
have a new printer with full warranty, a new set of ink tanks and the
existing tanks from the old printer. The old printer could then be used as a
parts machine, door stop, boat anchor or planter box.

Now if you are shipping to a service center you are adding a whole new cost
that the average user would not encounter. In this position, I would trash
it and buy a new printer. In fact Canon now offers a deal I used recently
(Customer Loyalty Program if IIRC) where if it is determined by the help
desk that your out of warranty printer requires service, they will give you
10% off a new printer and free over-night shipping.

I think you may be starting to comprehend the obvious. However, since you
are coming across as someone who repairs these printers, why would you need
to send it back to Canon for a replacement? Don't you work on these and have
access to wholesale parts prices?

see above

I did and you still haven't provided an explanation.

Well as a consumer (and a cheap one at that) I thought this was a consumers
point of view. Just different than yours that's all.

Are you the consumer or the technician?


Ron Cohen

 

[DD]

Where does all the ink go when you perform a cleaning or deep
cleaning operation on the Canon i950? The instructions say that Deep
cleaning uses a lot of ink but there is no mention of where it ends up!
Anyone know?

DD

This thread I started turned out to be somewhat of a slinging match
didn't it?

Anyway it was all interesting stuff and in the meantime I found this

site which you may all find interesting. Incidentally, there is a

description of how to clean the waste ink "Tank".

http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html

DD