Shenan wrote:
....
lol, wow, that's a lot of "verbosity: Shenan. Pretty sure I'm the
"misinformation" culprit you mention and I still stand by my claims,
which are very similar to yours if read with comprehension. The
"misinformation" I object to so strongly is the one who preaches "all"
registry are "snake oil", can "never" be trusted, will "always" ... and
on and on.
Although I disagree mildly with some of your points, other than being
"triggered" by this post, I have nothing to say about anything you've
said and with one exception I don't think anyone else does either.
You've identified your experience, described some background, and given
an opinion; that's fine, and logical. In the end you would find that we
aren't very far apart in our opinions, although they are different.
Nothing wrong there. You've made no statements of fact being perceived
as misinformation. In fact, your post is all informative, even though I
feel a certain guilt that you felt the need to shield yourself as you've
done.
It's misinformation like the following that draws my attention. The
rest of this missive contains nothing but quotes from my archives
written by the person I consider to have provided the most
misinformation of anyone on any of the MS groups, including newbies who
think they know something but haven't the experience yet to realize they
don't, and everyone else.
This particular set of quotes covers basically comments about registry
cleaners et al made by our resident misinformationist and inuendo artist
who thinks he can rationalize his way out of any box he paints himself
into. Due to his pompous attitude and touch-typing abilities most have
given up on him but he's been referred to as "one of those" and several
other not so nice descriptions on other groups.
At one time this person was really pretty good. Better than the
average MVP I'd even go so far as to say. But something, somehow, has
clearly in his craw and even without experience with most of the
products he libles, he still does so with a single-colored paint brush.
There's a serious power struggle going on in his mind and for some
reason the groups are one of the places it comes out. At least so far,
other than a poor attitude a lot of times, he has managed to keep it to
only two subjects as far as I know, with newbiews creeping up as a
likely third.
Cheers; here's the list I pulled from archives FYI: I suspect it's not
news to many people here:
-------------
CCleaner is worthless as a registry cleaner. I tried the latest
version on a brand-new OS installation with no additional applications
-------------
(Not that any registry
cleaner can ever be anything but worthless, as they don't serve any
useful purpose, to start with.)
------------
Secondly, Can anyone recommend good registry cleaner and system
cleaner
software to tune up my xp machine?
There are no such things. All such products are pure snake oil. If
you actually believe such things are useful, you need to find someone
else, with a modicum of technical knowledge, experience, and ability, to
support your users; your lack of knowledge may well be part of the
users' problems.
-----------
How can it possibly work "great" when it (like all other so-called
registry cleaners) does absolutely nothing useful?
-----------
Youre system settings are configured wrong,according to "microsoft"
&
"Paul Mcfedries",virtual memory should only be 1 1/2 X youre ram
memory.
That's a lie. There is no such advice.
------------
I am looking for a software to optimize windows xp. Such as software
that
can clean up the registry and fix windows errors amongst other things.
All such products are pure, unadulterated snake oil. None of them do
any good, and most can easily cause great harm when used by any both the
most experienced. Registry "cleaners" are the worst of the lot.
----------
You mean you didn't "know" what they were, didn't know how to find out,
and, had you been tghe average user, would have just let CCleaner delete
them. Proving for one and all to see just how dangerous registry
cleaners can be. Thank you.
-----------
Because it clearly demonstrates that the registry "cleaner" is listing
nothing but bogus false alarms, as the "problems" it points out are not
problems, at all.
-----------
Is there any Microsoft approved Registry Cleaning program available.
Yes, sadly, there is. Microsoft saw how many gullible people there
are, and decided to offer their own snake oil product. I provide this
info only to answer your question; in absolutely no way is this to be
construed as any sort of recommendation or endorsement:
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/article/registry_cleaner_why.htm
BE WARNED: I DO NOT recommend the use of this or any other registry
cleaner.
---------------
One should not turn loose a
poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully confident that
he knows exactly what is going to happen as a result of each and every
change.
-----------
RegCure. No registry "cleaner" does anything useful, and they all
carry...
--------
Thanks for the update, Gary. I guess I'll have to stop recommending
its use, even for its original, intended purpose. The makers have just
lost all credibility by including a registry "cleaner.".
----------
A registry cleaner - even a safe one, should such ever be developed
- is an exercise in, at best, futility. There is no real need for
registry cleaners, other than to provide a profit to their
manufacturers. On rare occasions, registry cleaners can be, in the
hands of a skilled technician, useful, time-saving diagnostic tools.
Otherwise, they're nothing but snake oil.
-----------
The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows exactly what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change.
-----------
More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an
automated registry cleaner, particularly by an untrained, inexperienced
computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's certainly been
no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such
products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance
or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not worth the
risk.
------------
Huh? Did you even stop to think before asking that question? If my
chosen antivirus application is effective, then I clearly don't get
viruses, even though being occasionally exposed to them by others
sending me infected email attachments, on disks, etc.
-----------
O...n...c...e m...o...r...e, v...e...r...y...
s...l...o...w...l...y, f...o...r... y...o...u...r...
r...e...a...d...i...n...g... p...r...o...b...l...e...m....
A...s I... s...a...i...d..., I... k... n... o... w... i...t...
w...o...r...k...s b...e...c...a...u...s...e i...t...
p...r...e...v...e...n...t...s i...n...f...e...c...t...i...o...n...s
t...o... w...h...i...c...h... I... k...n...o...w I...'v...e...
b...e...e...n... e...x...p...o...s...e...d.....
I... c...a...n'...t... e...x...p...l...a...i...n... i...t...
a...n...y... m...o...r...e s...i...m...p...l...y...
t...h...a...n... t...h...a...t....
--------------
They are
just a tool one may use to help.
Assuming there's a specific problem which they're designed to address,
yes. But without an existing problem, a registry cleaner, much like a
wrench without a loose nut in site, is completely useless. They serve
no preventative value; never have, never will.
------------
If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would
be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the
specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After
all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally,
the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely
to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make
multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean
your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe.
-----------------
More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an
automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's
certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use
of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's
performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not
worth the risk.
-------------------
Left in tact below, simply for historical purposes.
And, a few more comments inline if you're still reading, Shenan:
Now - this is likely to cause some people who are heavy on the "use
registry cleaners - they are good" to come back and respond how this
is "misinformation" - even though I am just teaching caution and
sharing experience gained over years of actually using the cleaners
and such. That's their opinion - and even if they do nothing else - I
would ask them to provide something to equate to (layman terms - like
I did) of how cleaning the windows registry would be useful/good.
If you've read some of my posts, then you've noted that I agree with
you; the vast majority of the time "cleaning" the registry doesn't
result in any fixes or even improvements in anything, especially speeds
of operation.
If you'd like to discuss views and opinions/experiences on the
subject off-group, I'll be happy to; maybe I'll learn something I didn't
know, who knows? I will not post them because many of them are items
I've posted here in the past that Bruce claims I've never done. A lot
of my data is empirical and based on experiences and tests made over the
years, some research, and the experience comes from client's PCs and
their perceived, sometimes validated problems and what it took to get
fixes or at least temporary work-arounds going for them, which I
wouldn't charge if I didn't "fix" the problem literally. Actually, most
of the work in the area of computer maintenance is in the form of
teaching how to keep problems like they had from returning. Safe Hex
and all that.
Beyond that - those with the opinion that text such as mine above are
misinformation and bad advice often like to challenge others with
directly opposite views of theirs (mine is not directly opposite -
but if you go far enough to one side on a subject - you sometimes
think *anyone* not thinking exactly like you is completely wrong) to
give proof - yet have provided none of their own. When this is
pointed out, they often come back with "still waiting on you to
provide proof" or some derivative comment without providing anything
- but still offering the challenge up. So - what it has become is
more of a religious (what do you believe in? well I believe in this
so you must be wrong...) battle than anything else. Neither side
offering up much of anything other than opinions.
lol, ya got me! There's a reason for it, but ... you are right.
I sit in the middle. I personally do not see a benefit - and I have
used quite a few on test machines and such. I tell you that *I* don't
_recommend_ you use them and I tell you why. In then end - let's be
honest - what you do is none of my concern and definitely not my
problem. I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose by telling you
my honest opinion on the matter and giving you my experiences that
back up why I have that opinion. You, on the other hand, might
maintain a functioning machine (through not using a registry cleaner
or by proper backups before you do.)
registry backups: Another area a LOT of people need help/education in.
It's surprising how many people still think you just export the registry
and then re-import the whole thing if you need to, to fix up your
mistakes. Restore Points and System States just aren't well enough
explained or pointed out my MS or anyone, actually, unless it's in a
specific question/response.
I suggest you read up on the matter - make your own decision. You
may even want to watch this conversation. Usually - anything that
causes a battle for no real reason with neither side of the battle
doing anything but talking loudly about the other side and how they
will not 'stand up to the challenge' or 'how wrong they are' or
resorting to personal insults - is something worthy of avoiding all
together. I know I stepped in it this time - but I am just trying to
give you some advice and then - I will bow out (this is it - I gave
you my opinion and am about to give you a starting place to learn
more on your own...)
And you did a good job of it, too. AFAIC you didn't step "in it". You
are quite reasonable and obviously a thinking person.
Cheers,
Twayne
