Cheap system... (Abit NF7-M ?)

[George Macdonald]

The floppy power cable was supposed to be fool-proof. The keying is done
by the PCB on the bottom edge. Well, it ain't damned-fool proof! ;-)

Data cables are a whole 'nother kettle. No one can agree on how they
should be keyed. Though it seems that the 80-conductor ATA cables have
finally gotten it right.

Yeah but isn't it funny how they always seem to go into the keyed mbrd
connector with the ribbon pointing the wrong way so you have to make extra
folds to get it to go where you want neatly. I still remember admiring
the beautiful cable folding used in a genuine IBM PC/AT we got years ago -
every fold just exactly right for routing around cards and devices.

I thought all LCDs had this problem. I certainly see the negative=image
if I view my THinkPad's image off-axis (enough). I assumed that this was
an artifact of the LCD twist/polorization. I can't imagine LCDs for such
use anyway. OTOH, they're *excellent* for CAD apppplications, as long as
they gots all dots.

The TN LCDs are all subject to that syndrome but to varying degrees. The
err, quest for speed to leverage the game market has led to it getting
worse apparently... not sure what the tech details are but the faster the
response, the worse it seems to get. Whether it's a natural result or just
the designers ignoring one criterion to get the best out of the principal
target, i.e. fast response, I dunno.

There are two other common LCD "types", VA (vertical alignment) and IPS
(in-plane switching), with variants on both, which give good off-axis image
and color. Samsungs PVA screens are really good on everything except
response - no detectable color shifting off-axis at all and good tonal
spectrum... not sure how amenable the VA is to improving response but I've
read that it is more complex to produce.

Are the screens really good enough to see the difference? What's the
color tracking across the screen? Do graphics/pre-press people use LCDs?

There are some graphics and photo editing people who are getting
enthusiastic about LCDs but AFAIK, only the very top end most expensive
models but the stigma is slowly being overcome. The market is, of course,
following the money, which is understandable but it seems a shame that, as
a result, the worst of the current technologies, as far as image quality
goes, is winning. It doesn't help that the vendors are quoting specs which
are just not true.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[keith]

Yeah but isn't it funny how they always seem to go into the keyed mbrd
connector with the ribbon pointing the wrong way so you have to make extra
folds to get it to go where you want neatly.

What? You're not inot cable-origami? Fold 'em enough times and they're
real pretty! ;-)

I still remember admiring
the beautiful cable folding used in a genuine IBM PC/AT we got years ago
- every fold just exactly right for routing around cards and devices.

You get no more than you pay for (and often less). The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.

[*] It seems they credited my account for half the shipping since they
were shipped together. ...or that's all I can figure from their email
invoices. Also the shortages I reported to them on Sunday (remember
Monday was a holiday) arrived yesterday. Good show!

The TN LCDs are all subject to that syndrome but to varying degrees. The
err, quest for speed to leverage the game market has led to it getting
worse apparently... not sure what the tech details are but the faster
the response, the worse it seems to get. Whether it's a natural result
or just the designers ignoring one criterion to get the best out of the
principal target, i.e. fast response, I dunno.

Faster transistors tend to be more failure-prone. They're
essentially silk-screening these things on, which amazes me.

There are two other common LCD "types", VA (vertical alignment) and IPS
(in-plane switching), with variants on both, which give good off-axis
image and color. Samsungs PVA screens are really good on everything
except response - no detectable color shifting off-axis at all and good
tonal spectrum... not sure how amenable the VA is to improving response
but I've read that it is more complex to produce.
Interesting.


There are some graphics and photo editing people who are getting
enthusiastic about LCDs but AFAIK, only the very top end most expensive
models but the stigma is slowly being overcome. The market is, of
course, following the money, which is understandable but it seems a
shame that, as a result, the worst of the current technologies, as far
as image quality goes, is winning. It doesn't help that the vendors are
quoting specs which are just not true.

Given the pile of cash M$ is sitting on, you wouldn't propose that honesty
was the best policy, would you? ;-)

 

[George Macdonald]

What? You're not inot cable-origami? Fold 'em enough times and they're
real pretty! ;-)

Oh I believe it's very therapeutic. I had a friend who used to call
programming "electronic basket-weaving"... but I got a feeling he had
someone else do the debugging.

I still remember admiring
the beautiful cable folding used in a genuine IBM PC/AT we got years ago
- every fold just exactly right for routing around cards and devices.

You get no more than you pay for (and often less). The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.

I like "clean" inside - I route/push the round cables behind the drive
cages so that only the "business ends" are visible. The ribbon cables I
used to fold so that they were flat against the motherboard plate, taped
down with some masking tape, for any distance they had to run... like up to
the CD-ROM... which is why the extra folds could be a nuisance, taking up
length.

[*] It seems they credited my account for half the shipping since they
were shipped together. ...or that's all I can figure from their email
invoices. Also the shortages I reported to them on Sunday (remember
Monday was a holiday) arrived yesterday. Good show!

I've no complaints with NewEgg so far over 6 or so orders; it makes you
wonder if they can keep it up. Often those kinds of operations eventually
go sour, with staff turnover but I see no signs. From what I can tell they
have their own warehouses -- with one in NJ so I have to pay sales tax.:-(
-- so can control the whole chain pretty well. My monitor is somewhere
between Indianapolis and Newark right now... not due till Monday, since I
spent an extra day procrastinating and didn't get the order in till early
Wednesday.

FWIW I'm not sure what the link is but it seems like there is some kind of
association between NewEgg and ABS Computer Technologies (www.buyabs.com) -
ABS has the same address as NewEgg had before they moved and at least one
mfr (Eizo) seems to think they're one and the same.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[willbill]

.... The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.

i'll bite, exactly which/what did you get?

i personally plan to get a few more round
cables from them coz i think that this is the
"high point" for round cables (sata drives look
to me to soon become number one)

[*] It seems they credited my account for half the shipping since they
were shipped together. ...or that's all I can figure from their email
invoices. Also the shortages I reported to them on Sunday (remember
Monday was a holiday) arrived yesterday.
Good show!

^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly right.

your (previous) put down of newegg
(over their high shipping cost for cables)
ignored the issue of what is the total cost
vs what you can do with another company

bill

 

[keith]

.... The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.

i'll bite, exactly which/what did you get?

I wasn't worried about the connectors, rather the lengths and
connector spacings (they fit). But since you asked, I picked a coup at
random (this and its 24" cousin):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-181-063&depa=0

i personally plan to get a few more round cables from them coz i think
that this is the "high point" for round cables (sata drives look to me
to soon become number one)

My SATA experience is less than great. It's sitting there win Win2K on
it, should I ever choose to boot Win2K. Maybe SI will get their act
together soon, though I'm not counting on it. :-(

[*] It seems they credited my account for half the shipping since they
were shipped together. ...or that's all I can figure from their email
invoices. Also the shortages I reported to them on Sunday (remember
Monday was a holiday) arrived yesterday. Good show!

^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly right.
;-)

your (previous) put down of newegg

Put-down? Me? ...just tha facts, Ma'm.

(over their high shipping cost for cables) ignored the issue of what is
the total cost vs what you can do with another company

Actually, no. I did say something about "in the land of the $25 USB
cable...". Yes, I think $4.95 for shipping for *each* cable is excessive.
Were it $4.95 for the bunch (or perhaps some minimum order), I'd have
ordered a *bunch*, and most likely a number of other "staples". As it was
I ordered only what I needed.

As long as we're here, I'll point out Crucial's fantastic shipping policy.
If the *order* is $40 (may be a little more) or more, shipping is free.
My USB stick came a tad shor of the limit, so a $2.95 USB cable put it
over the threshold. Yes, Crucial is one of my fav sites. Outstanding
products, outstanding service, good prices, and one cannot beat free
second-day air. NewEgg gets no better than a 50% rating when stacked up
against Crucial. It all comes down to what one uses as a benchmark.

 

[willbill]

keith wrote:

.... The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.

i'll bite, exactly which/what did you get?

I wasn't worried about the connectors, rather the lengths and
connector spacings (they fit). But since you asked, I picked a coup at
random (this and its 24" cousin):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-181-063&depa=0

lower end cables, but they do happen to offer
a quantity discount on the shipping.

next time i order i'm going higher up the chain.
the Antec Cobra's are the best i've bought so far
(and the 3 that came with a Lanparty mobo)

only small negative with the Cobra's is that
you have to add your own pull tabs (a minor
irritation) although the cobra's are robust
enough that they may not need them

Put-down? Me? ...just tha facts, Ma'm.


Actually, no. I did say something about "in the land of the $25 USB
cable...". Yes, I think $4.95 for shipping for *each* cable is excessive.
Were it $4.95 for the bunch (or perhaps some minimum order), I'd have
ordered a *bunch*, and most likely a number of other "staples". As it was
I ordered only what I needed.

As long as we're here, I'll point out Crucial's fantastic shipping policy.
If the *order* is $40 (may be a little more) or more, shipping is free.
My USB stick came a tad shor of the limit, so a $2.95 USB cable put it
over the threshold. Yes, Crucial is one of my fav sites. Outstanding
products, outstanding service, good prices, and one cannot beat free
second-day air. NewEgg gets no better than a 50% rating when stacked up
against Crucial. It all comes down to what one uses as a benchmark.

thanks for the ref on Crucial. i recently bought
some Crucial memory (ECC for the 875 Lanparty mobo)
from Newegg and it would have been useful to get some
additional experience with another company

fwiw, Newegg is in Calif. and i bet more
than half their business is with residents
of Calif. so maybe they do a small overshift
of pricing to shipping? i mean, there's no
sales tax on shipping.

bill

 

[keith]

keith wrote:


.... The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.


i'll bite, exactly which/what did you get?

I wasn't worried about the connectors, rather the lengths and
connector spacings (they fit). But since you asked, I picked a coup at
random (this and its 24" cousin):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-181-063&depa=0

lower end cables, but they do happen to offer
a quantity discount on the shipping.

"lower-end"? Ok, what makes the up-town cables better (seriously, just
asking). An *advertized* discount would get me to part with more money.
Paying more for shipping each item than the product smaks of Ron Popiel's
marketing.

next time i order i'm going higher up the chain. the Antec Cobra's are
the best i've bought so far (and the 3 that came with a Lanparty mobo)

only small negative with the Cobra's is that you have to add your own
pull tabs (a minor irritation) although the cobra's are robust enough
that they may not need them

Interesting. Perhaps if I didn't have to risk $5 on shipping... ;-)

thanks for the ref on Crucial. i recently bought some Crucial
memory (ECC for the 875 Lanparty mobo) from Newegg and it would have
been useful to get some additional experience with another company

Crrucial is the benchmark of web-supplier integrity. They are simply
amazing. Of course (being a Micron company) they have a very limited
catalog.

fwiw, Newegg is in Calif. and i bet more than half their business is
with residents of Calif.

I'd bet that you're wrong. NewEgg is at the top of the heap even on the
right coast now. They're not perfect, but still rate very highly.

so maybe they do a small overshift of pricing
to shipping? i mean, there's no sales tax on shipping.

There's no sales tax for most of the country. Though I believe you're
wrong. George MacD has said he's charged tax on his orders. Most
ot the stuff comes out of Newark NJ so no, I don't buy NewEgg being a CA
only company, or that half of its business is from CA.

 

[George Macdonald]

There's no sales tax for most of the country. Though I believe you're
wrong. George MacD has said he's charged tax on his orders. Most
ot the stuff comes out of Newark NJ so no, I don't buy NewEgg being a CA
only company, or that half of its business is from CA.

My new monitor - Samsung 173P - came from CA. Apparently I pay tax because
they have a warehouse someplace in NJ - I believe I've had Viewsonic
monitors shipped from there. I've also had cases and other odds & ends
shipped from a warehouse in TN - dunno if it's their's or if just a
drop-ship from a separate distributor.

I came a crosss a post the other day from someone who claimed that NewEgg
and ABS Computer Technologies have the same CEO/holding and as previously
mentioned I'm almost certain that ABS is at the exact same address as
NewEgg occupied before they moved.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[willbill]

keith wrote:

.... The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.
i'll bite, exactly which/what did you get?
I wasn't worried about the connectors, rather the lengths and
connector spacings (they fit). But since you asked, I picked a coup at
random (this and its 24" cousin):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-181-063&depa=0

lower end cables, but they do happen to offer
a quantity discount on the shipping.

"lower-end"? Ok, what makes the up-town cables better (seriously, just
asking).

i suggest you buy one of the round Antec Cobra
IDE cables (one length "fits all" ( )), and
you'll find out in the one/only way that counts.

btw, if you buy any round floppy cables (worth
doing considering that lousy location of the
mobo floppy connector on the Tyan S2875s that
you got), the cheapies are just fine.

An *advertized* discount would get me to part with more money.

you didn't see the discount on the above ref
that you provided? tsk, tsk, tsk

I'd bet that you're wrong. NewEgg is at the top of the heap even on the
right coast now. They're not perfect, but still rate very highly.




There's no sales tax for most of the country. Though I believe you're
wrong. George MacD has said he's charged tax on his orders. Most
ot the stuff comes out of Newark NJ so no, I don't buy NewEgg being a CA
only company, or that half of its business is from CA.

i was pulling your chain a small bit; iow newegg's
high shipping price (for cables) also got my notice.

re no tax on shipping, that may be a *small* reason
for their high cable shipping prices, but frankly
it's more likely that they've found that many
people will simply pay the price

re 50+% of newegg's biz coming from Calif.,
that's a hunch on my part and i'll be the
1st to admit that i may well be very wrong

bill

 

[willbill]

keith wrote:
<snip all>

btw, since you've talked with Tyan
(over getting workable Linux sata drivers
for the SI-3114 raid chip that's on the mobo
(i.e. the Tyan S2875s)) did you by any chance
happen to ask (or know with confidence) if ECC
errors/corrections are logged in the "event logging"
that is provided in the bios of this server type mobo?

(note that i xposted and changed the title too. )

TIA, bill

 

[keith]

My new monitor - Samsung 173P - came from CA. Apparently I pay tax because
they have a warehouse someplace in NJ - I believe I've had Viewsonic
monitors shipped from there. I've also had cases and other odds & ends
shipped from a warehouse in TN - dunno if it's their's or if just a
drop-ship from a separate distributor.

Since they use FedEx almost exclusively, my bet is that the stuff out of
TN is directly from FedEx's wharehouse. I know *years* ago FedEx *owned*
even the parts for our service arm. It was cheaper to have theim on the
FedEx books than ours, and of course they only had to be shipped on
one hop from TN.

The other stuff I've had from them ships equally from CA and NJ, with the
latter more often. The word is that they have their own wharehouses,
rather than the usual middle-men, but I have no first-hand information
here.

I came a crosss a post the other day from someone who claimed that
NewEgg and ABS Computer Technologies have the same CEO/holding and as
previously mentioned I'm almost certain that ABS is at the exact same
address as NewEgg occupied before they moved.

I saw that. ...wouldn't surprise me. I remember when many of the
white-boxes (Quantex, et.al.) were all the same, or at least had family
trees with no branches.

 

[keith]

keith wrote:
.... The round IDE cables I
ordered from NewEgg Monday[*] came today (amazing since Monday was a Fed
holiday). They're interesting looking, but I haven't installed them yet,
so no information on whether they even fit.
i'll bite, exactly which/what did you get?
I wasn't worried about the connectors, rather the lengths and
connector spacings (they fit). But since you asked, I picked a coup at
random (this and its 24" cousin):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-181-063&depa=0
lower end cables, but they do happen to offer
a quantity discount on the shipping.

"lower-end"? Ok, what makes the up-town cables better (seriously, just
asking).

i suggest you buy one of the round Antec Cobra
IDE cables (one length "fits all" ( )), and
you'll find out in the one/only way that counts.

Ok, next time I order... Though "one size fits all" is code for "fits no
one". Though the shipping costs are a lower percentage of the cost of the
Antec cables. ;-)

btw, if you buy any round floppy cables (worth doing considering that
lousy location of the mobo floppy connector on the Tyan S2875s that you
got), the cheapies are just fine.

Why? The floppy drive (not sure why I even have one; never even tried it)
is in the middle of the Antec SX1040.

you didn't see the discount on the above ref that you provided? tsk,
tsk, tsk

No. The checkout charged it twice and it was, I *think*, refunded after
the stuff was on my doorstep.

i was pulling your chain a small bit; iow newegg's high shipping price
(for cables) also got my notice.

re no tax on shipping, that may be a *small* reason for their high cable
shipping prices, but frankly it's more likely that they've found that
many people will simply pay the price

Personal experience say's your right. ;-) OTOH Ron Popiel has found the
same. It's not an endorsement of this strategy.

re 50+% of newegg's biz coming from Calif., that's a hunch on my part
and i'll be the 1st to admit that i may well be very wrong

I wuz pointed to NewEgg by my son (I'd been dealing with several others,
also good). His friends all used NewEgg and were happy, so... We're in
the opposite corner of the country, so NewEgg isn't only known in CA.

....here's hoping we get a commission from any NewEggg sales generated here. ;-)

 

[keith]

keith wrote:
<snip all>

btw, since you've talked with Tyan
(over getting workable Linux sata drivers
for the SI-3114 raid chip that's on the mobo
(i.e. the Tyan S2875s))

NO, I got no response from my last email. I waited two months from the
previous exchange with their "level-n" support to ask "ok, when"? I guess
each responce has to go through "level-1->n" or get dropped in the
bit-bucket. Use of that drive would be nice, though it is heating season.

did you by any chance
happen to ask (or know with confidence) if ECC
errors/corrections are logged in the "event logging"
that is provided in the bios of this server type mobo?

My, I wouldn't know where to start with that one. WHat happens if they
say "of course"? How does one go about proving such things? I had this
issue when I was designing compatibility tests, some years back. We ended
up ignoring parity and ECC, because it was nearly impossible to test.

(note that i xposted and changed the title too. )

Sure. I don't follw the Tyan group, though I suppose I should. Does
anyone from Tyan? (what a concept!)