Canon I850 Ink Question

[Taliesyn]

Well here is your first problem, Canon (and one other I know of) do in fact
develope and produce their own inks.




But as I have said already and you have just stated yourself, they alter the
formula. This means it is not the exact same quality as the OEM. And yes
when it comes to a 'slight' difference in ink formula, the results can be
significant.

Ah but, but be careful. When you say "quality", it doesn't mean better
quality ingredients, it merely means the percentage of any one basic
industrial ingredient (which is what they are!) is slightly different.
There is no "exactly correct formula". They are all merely formulas that
provide, as mentioned, stable, relatively long-lasting, generally not
too clogging formulas. You cannot mathematically work out on paper the
perfect formula. That's an impossibilty! You can to some degree, but you
still have to play around with the igredients for a long time until
you're relatively happy that you've produced a suitable "standard"
product that actually works and isn't too harmful on the print head.

And for an ounce of that so called "original OEM" ink they want your
first born! Not if I can help it. I still have two photos side by
side (5x7), made a year and a half ago, one made with Canon ink and the
other with ink from Atlantic Inkjet. They are absolutely identical -
still. The Canon cartridges will set me back $100 CDN. A refill of the
4 cartridges using Atlantic's bulk inks, $5 CDN. With the money I'm
saving (about $1000 in ink last year), I can afford to buy the latest
printer model instead of wasting the money on ink.

-Talieyn

 

[TR]

I still have two photos side by
side (5x7), made a year and a half ago, one made with Canon ink and the
other with ink from Atlantic Inkjet. They are absolutely identical -
still. The Canon cartridges will set me back $100 CDN. A refill of the
4 cartridges using Atlantic's bulk inks, $5 CDN.

I think what you said above pretty much establishes that with the
proper selection of ink, refilling is the way to go unless you are
really into being corn holed by printer manufacturers.

Just think of it this way.... If we can buy empty carts and refill
them for pennies on the dollar compared to what the OEM's are charging
for new carts, then you have to know that the OEM's are filling their
commercial carts for even less than we can simply because of the bulk
they are doing it at. So take that into consideration when you see
just how much they are selling those OEM carts for. Corn Hole! Bend
over and let me sell you another one...

I'll also guarantee you that before the decade runs out, we are going
to see the costs of replacement carts plummet while the cost of
printers goes up. Why... refilling will catch on so much due to
everyone getting tired of being raped that the OEM's will not be able
to continue making the big profits associated with OEM carts so they
will shift the whole profit game back to the printer.

The OEM's, or some of them at least, have tried to build anti
tampering and/or all sorts of foul schemes into their carts to make
them so hard to refill that they also present malfunctions and all
sorts of problems in the untampered state.... thus.... causing all
sorts of problems for the OEM to have to deal with via warranty and/or
replacement of bad carts. I have a friend who's daughter works at
Staples and she said you have no idea how many (Sold Yesterday) carts
come back for replacement or refund because they just don't work...
too complicated, printer will not recognize them, printer says they
are empty, blah, blah, blah...... She says that HP is the biggest
headache.

Again, the OEM's tried to complicate the cart designs to make them a
refilling hassle to a point to where they don't even work when the OEM
makes them any more. That's costing them in
replacements/returns/pissed customers. They created a pile of crap
and stepped back into it themselves. No one ever said that corporate
America had any brains or at least these cone heads running it in the
last 2-3 decades.... So, I say they will start making the carts in a
basic, uncomplicated way again so they will work (which also makes
them easy to refill) and look back to making their profits on the
printer itself.

The again... I could be wrong....

Regards,
TR

 

[Taliesyn]

I think what you said above pretty much establishes that with the
proper selection of ink, refilling is the way to go unless you are
really into being corn holed by printer manufacturers.

Just think of it this way.... If we can buy empty carts and refill
them for pennies on the dollar compared to what the OEM's are charging
for new carts, then you have to know that the OEM's are filling their
commercial carts for even less than we can simply because of the bulk
they are doing it at. So take that into consideration when you see
just how much they are selling those OEM carts for. Corn Hole! Bend
over and let me sell you another one...

I'll also guarantee you that before the decade runs out, we are going
to see the costs of replacement carts plummet while the cost of
printers goes up. Why... refilling will catch on so much due to
everyone getting tired of being raped that the OEM's will not be able
to continue making the big profits associated with OEM carts so they
will shift the whole profit game back to the printer.

The OEM's, or some of them at least, have tried to build anti
tampering and/or all sorts of foul schemes into their carts to make
them so hard to refill that they also present malfunctions and all
sorts of problems in the untampered state.... thus.... causing all
sorts of problems for the OEM to have to deal with via warranty and/or
replacement of bad carts. I have a friend who's daughter works at
Staples and she said you have no idea how many (Sold Yesterday) carts
come back for replacement or refund because they just don't work...
too complicated, printer will not recognize them, printer says they
are empty, blah, blah, blah...... She says that HP is the biggest
headache.

Again, the OEM's tried to complicate the cart designs to make them a
refilling hassle to a point to where they don't even work when the OEM
makes them any more. That's costing them in
replacements/returns/pissed customers. They created a pile of crap
and stepped back into it themselves. No one ever said that corporate
America had any brains or at least these cone heads running it in the
last 2-3 decades.... So, I say they will start making the carts in a
basic, uncomplicated way again so they will work (which also makes
them easy to refill) and look back to making their profits on the
printer itself.

The again... I could be wrong....

Regards,
TR

Yes, agreed with all points.

What stops them from raising prices at the moment is the fact that
there's a marvelous 4-way price battle between the printer manufactures,
bringing the price down every time I buy a printer. The Canon i860 is
30% larger, slightly more advanced (an extra ink cart for colour), and
sells for about $30 CDN less than the model it replaced. I think I paid
something like $400 for an Epson 740 dinosaur.

-Taliesyn

 

[PC Medic]

Ah but, but be careful. When you say "quality", it doesn't mean better
quality ingredients, it merely means the percentage of any one basic
industrial ingredient (which is what they are!) is slightly different.
There is no "exactly correct formula". They are all merely formulas that
provide, as mentioned, stable, relatively long-lasting, generally not
too clogging formulas. You cannot mathematically work out on paper the
perfect formula. That's an impossibilty! You can to some degree, but you
still have to play around with the igredients for a long time until
you're relatively happy that you've produced a suitable "standard"
product that actually works and isn't too harmful on the print head.

When you say quality it can in fact mean either or both. This would depend
on the manufacture and how much they are willing to put into R&D to produce
a product that meats their exact quality standards (playing around as you
call it). And yes at the high end these formulas are very stringent, so
'exact' is not an unacceptable term to use. They (the OEM's) also tend to
formulate for best results with their paper and of course in their
particular printheads and that is why they often if not always recommend use
of their papers. Of course there is a marketing aspect, but papaer
recommendation is not ALL sales pitch as some would think. Photo papers
containg varying sizes of pores and the ink and droplet size is geared for a
specific type paper. Add to this the various types of coating used on the
glossy paper types and these all will interact diffently with different
inks. Certain inks may cause a magenta hue when used on a particular paper
requiring driver adjustments. Others may cause a cyan hue.

And for an ounce of that so called "original OEM" ink they want your
first born! Not if I can help it. I still have two photos side by
side (5x7), made a year and a half ago, one made with Canon ink and the
other with ink from Atlantic Inkjet. They are absolutely identical -
still. The Canon cartridges will set me back $100 CDN. A refill of the
4 cartridges using Atlantic's bulk inks, $5 CDN. With the money I'm
saving (about $1000 in ink last year), I can afford to buy the latest
printer model instead of wasting the money on ink.

Again, I agree there may be some suitable inks out there for various people
and uses, but the formulas are not exact and that was what my comments were
about. By the way not sure what Canon Ink you are paying that for, but if
that is an honest figure that is more than 200% the cost in the U.S. even
with the exchange rate. I generally pay about $35 for a set on average.

 

[PC Medic]

I think what you said above pretty much establishes that with the
proper selection of ink, refilling is the way to go unless you are
really into being corn holed by printer manufacturers.

Just think of it this way.... If we can buy empty carts and refill
them for pennies on the dollar compared to what the OEM's are charging
for new carts, then you have to know that the OEM's are filling their
commercial carts for even less than we can simply because of the bulk
they are doing it at. So take that into consideration when you see
just how much they are selling those OEM carts for. Corn Hole! Bend
over and let me sell you another one...

Much of this cost difference is because the generics do not have near the
cost into R&D as the OEM's. Simple business math to figure out they can not
sell as cheap. Do they make a profit on it, sure they do, but not as much as
some would believe. You have to remember that while you may be able
to*refill* your cart for pennies (which is an exageration), but you can not
then package, distribute, market and guarentee your product for that same
cost.

I'll also guarantee you that before the decade runs out, we are going
to see the costs of replacement carts plummet while the cost of
printers goes up. Why... refilling will catch on so much due to
everyone getting tired of being raped that the OEM's will not be able
to continue making the big profits associated with OEM carts so they
will shift the whole profit game back to the printer.

The profit game as you call it was not shifted to cartridges out of a get
rich quick scheme, it is a result of where your money is going. A printer is
no more than a mecahnical carrier for paper and the printhead carriage. The
current technology in this area is pretty much maxed out because you can
only move the paper and printhead so fast and still maintain accurate dot
placement. This means you must dump your money into better printheads
delivering smaller drops at an exacting speed to place the dots on the
paper. These droplets also need to be of a particular shape and size when
they hit the paper to gicve a good crisp image. This means the rest of that
money goes to faster drying inks that still will not clog these smaller jets
on the more advanced printheads, but at the same time have a property which
will allow the drops to not lose their shape or dry to quicly before
reaching the paper.

The OEM's, or some of them at least, have tried to build anti
tampering and/or all sorts of foul schemes into their carts to make
them so hard to refill that they also present malfunctions and all
sorts of problems in the untampered state.... thus.... causing all
sorts of problems for the OEM to have to deal with via warranty and/or
replacement of bad carts. I have a friend who's daughter works at
Staples and she said you have no idea how many (Sold Yesterday) carts
come back for replacement or refund because they just don't work...
too complicated, printer will not recognize them, printer says they
are empty, blah, blah, blah...... She says that HP is the biggest
headache.

That's odd as Epson is the one that has the built in chip and in the EU it
is now being banned. Can't see how this would happen with a Canon (the
subject of this thread) as they do not use such a practice, the printhead is
covered under warranty in most any of their printers made in the past 3
years and the printheads for these models are not available at Staples.

Again, the OEM's tried to complicate the cart designs to make them a
refilling hassle to a point to where they don't even work when the OEM
makes them any more. That's costing them in
replacements/returns/pissed customers. They created a pile of crap
and stepped back into it themselves. No one ever said that corporate
America had any brains or at least these cone heads running it in the
last 2-3 decades.... So, I say they will start making the carts in a
basic, uncomplicated way again so they will work (which also makes
them easy to refill) and look back to making their profits on the
printer itself.

The again... I could be wrong....

Could be. How complicated do you find a clear plastic box full of liquid??
After all with the exception of the small prism in the base (used for ink
level detection) that is about as complicated as it gets.

 

[PC Medic]

Yes, agreed with all points.

What stops them from raising prices at the moment is the fact that
there's a marvelous 4-way price battle between the printer manufactures,
bringing the price down every time I buy a printer. The Canon i860 is
30% larger, slightly more advanced (an extra ink cart for colour), and
sells for about $30 CDN less than the model it replaced. I think I paid
something like $400 for an Epson 740 dinosaur.

This has to do with return on investment and is common through-out the PC
(and other ) industries.
When a new model comes out 90% of it's workings are contained in the
previous model so much of the R&D costs have already been recouped. As time
goes by prices continue to fall even when small advances are made in the
next model. Only when there is a major new advancement made will there an
increase or minimal drop from one model to the next. The less R&D spent for
the new feature the less it effects price.
Hardly a conspiracy!

 

[Taliesyn]

Again, I agree there may be some suitable inks out there for various people
and uses, but the formulas are not exact and that was what my comments were
about. By the way not sure what Canon Ink you are paying that for, but if
that is an honest figure that is more than 200% the cost in the U.S. even
with the exchange rate. I generally pay about $35 for a set on average.

In my neighborhood Canon BCI-3e and BCI-6 cartridges go for about $23
CDN (plus tax), each. We have 2 sales taxes, totaling 15%. That's $25.
I cannot afford Canon's ink, I must use compatible. Now if there was
a noticeable difference in print quality or the ink was obviously
causing my printer (print head) problems, I could see your point and
really wouldn't have an argument. But right now I'm getting the same
satisfying results with my compatible bulk inks as I would from
Canon brand inks - except I'm paying only about 5% of the cost of Canon
ink.

And even if there was some small chance of the ink causing long term
damage to the print head. I don't really care. The money I'm saving in
a year pays for several next printers.

Yes, there are all kind of grades of inks out there. My general rule
of thumb is not to buy them via eBay and avoid (like the plague)
anything labeled Universal inks (good for all printers).

I've stuck with my favorite supplier for many years and have experienced
- filled the carts with their inks in all 4 printer brands. And in all
cases they worked and matched perfectly.

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

This has to do with return on investment and is common through-out the PC
(and other ) industries.
When a new model comes out 90% of it's workings are contained in the
previous model so much of the R&D costs have already been recouped. As time
goes by prices continue to fall even when small advances are made in the
next model. Only when there is a major new advancement made will there an
increase or minimal drop from one model to the next. The less R&D spent for
the new feature the less it effects price.
Hardly a conspiracy!

Good answer, I can buy most of it.

But the fact remains that printer prices are continuing to go down on
the whole. Even new models, with incredible features, are very
affordably priced. However, ink prices have remained suspiciously high.

This year there's been a horrific onslought of printers being given
away with the smallest purchase of a related item. All this is with
the printer manufacturer's plan of getting the buyer hooked (for lack
of a better word) on buying their respective ink cartridges. HPs and
Lexmarks are the worst culprits. They hand their printers out like
leaflets! And their cartridges are the most expensive.

I always get a kick when I see a sale on OEM cartridges - $5 off or
something. So instead of $65 CDN for a Lexmark cartridge they sold for
$60. How is that an enticement? To me a sale would be $19.99 CDN.
Considering I refilled for $5, I just might, just might, be enticed to
pay $19.99 for it. Certainly not $60 or $65 plus tax!

-Taliesyn

 

[PC Medic]

In my neighborhood Canon BCI-3e and BCI-6 cartridges go for about $23
CDN (plus tax), each. We have 2 sales taxes, totaling 15%. That's $25.
I cannot afford Canon's ink, I must use compatible. Now if there was
a noticeable difference in print quality or the ink was obviously
causing my printer (print head) problems, I could see your point and
really wouldn't have an argument. But right now I'm getting the same
satisfying results with my compatible bulk inks as I would from
Canon brand inks - except I'm paying only about 5% of the cost of Canon
ink.

And even if there was some small chance of the ink causing long term
damage to the print head. I don't really care. The money I'm saving in
a year pays for several next printers.

Yes, there are all kind of grades of inks out there. My general rule
of thumb is not to buy them via eBay and avoid (like the plague)
anything labeled Universal inks (good for all printers).

I've stuck with my favorite supplier for many years and have experienced
- filled the carts with their inks in all 4 printer brands. And in all
cases they worked and matched perfectly.

In your position I may do the same as it seems for some reason the attic is
paying a great deal more than we do down here in the states. I pay $8-9 for
color and about $11 for black OEM's and 4.5% tax so an entire set costs me
MUCH less than you pay for a single cart. I can't help but wonder how much
of this is retailer mark up though.

Again many find an ink that suits there needs, and if this is your case
great. I personally stick with the OEM's.

 

[PC Medic]

Good answer, I can buy most of it.

But the fact remains that printer prices are continuing to go down on
the whole. Even new models, with incredible features, are very
affordably priced. However, ink prices have remained suspiciously high.

Again, this is because most (a VERY BIG chunk) or R&D currently goes into
ink and printhead technologies and not printer technologies. The current
stepper in most printers is capable of higher resolutions, but the
printhead/ink is not. Spend money on developing a better ink to work in a
printhead with finer nozzles and now you can release a printer model with
higher resolution. Same stepper being used, just some change to ROM code so
no real cost expenditure to the printer itself. (just one example)

This year there's been a horrific onslought of printers being given
away with the smallest purchase of a related item. All this is with
the printer manufacturer's plan of getting the buyer hooked (for lack
of a better word) on buying their respective ink cartridges. HPs and
Lexmarks are the worst culprits. They hand their printers out like
leaflets! And their cartridges are the most expensive.

That's why I use Canon! :0)
Not to mention much better quality and support.

I always get a kick when I see a sale on OEM cartridges - $5 off or
something. So instead of $65 CDN for a Lexmark cartridge they sold for
$60. How is that an enticement? To me a sale would be $19.99 CDN.
Considering I refilled for $5, I just might, just might, be enticed to
pay $19.99 for it. Certainly not $60 or $65 plus tax!

Again in your case you have a point, though I would be happy to see $5 (50%)
off !!

 

[beezer]

Again many find an ink that suits there needs, and if this is your case
great. I personally stick with the OEM's.

Thats the point. If they were affordable at the rate that people use
them, we would all use OEM inks. I would be happy to use them myself,
but as I stated earlier, I will not shell out 60 plus dollars per
month at the rate I use ink.

If I printed an occasional photo I would have no need of a descent
printer as to my delight I may very well be happy throwing it on a
floppy and use the department store machines. Also, if my volume was
quite low, I would definately have no problem using OEM inks either.

 

[Jeff H]

**snip**

**snip**

In your position I may do the same as it seems for some reason the attic is
paying a great deal more than we do down here in the states. I pay $8-9 for
color and about $11 for black OEM's and 4.5% tax so an entire set costs me
MUCH less than you pay for a single cart. I can't help but wonder how much
of this is retailer mark up though.

As a dealer I can speak with some authority on the markup - At my store the
BCI-3 sells for $20.38 and the BCI-6 at $17.00 (Canadian dollars, 15% HST
extra). I have a small store but receive buying group contract prices when
buying ink (read - I buy at a good price)....our margin on these cartridges
is less than 20%. On every $100 sale of these inks we make less than $20.00
To put some perspective on this I can sell a generic/3rd party/compatible
cartridge for $5.00 and make more money than I can selling the $20.00
original.

The margin on inkjet cartridges is clearly on the manufacturers' side.
Several years ago in a trade magazine I read that HP made a whopping 89%
margin on their cartridges - A cartridge that a retailers sells for $50.00
costs HP in the range of $3.00 to produce....ink, casing, printhead,
packaging...$3.00!

All the best,

Jeff H

 

[TR]

Several years ago in a trade magazine I read that HP made a whopping 89%
margin on their cartridges - A cartridge that a retailers sells for $50.00
costs HP in the range of $3.00 to produce....ink, casing, printhead,
packaging...$3.00!

That's exactly what type of thing I was referring to in my:

"Corn Hole! Bend over and let me sell you another one..."

statement. Before getting my i960, I ran an HP952c and know first
hand at what "Some" of these OEM's are doing to the buying public when
it comes to ink cart costs.

Actually, on an HP forum there was an HP ringer on there defending
everything HP did while he was swearing up and down that he didn't
have any association with HP. According to him, the high costs of OEM
carts reflect the high costs associated with research & development.
The same tired old excuse the drug manufacturers use when trying to
justify the cost of a pill that sells for $5/each in the US but only
sells for a fraction of the US price across the two boarders.

Okay, I know that there has to be some built-in costs to pay for the
"research & development" of any product... But.... The HP example of
an 89% margin is nothing more than rape no matter what the Spin
Miesters and Ringers say.

And, as I said in my previous message.... "Some" of these OEM's are
incorporating so much anti-tamper proofing technology into their carts
that they can't even keep them running right... even in the pure
OEM/untampered/Right out of the OEM package state. HP's seem to be
the worse according to Staples. That's why I at least went with a
Canon for my HP replacement. Even though they (Canon) drill you a new
one with each replacement cart cost, the carts are not a conglomerate
mass of electronics/micro resisters and what not such as built into HP
carts. The Canon carts are simply Ink Wells, easy to refill at a
decent price.

Regards,
TR

 

[TR]

That's odd as Epson is the one that has the built in chip and in the EU it
is now being banned. Can't see how this would happen with a Canon

I never suggested that Canon does. Do you just quote for the hell of
it but do not actually read what you are quoting before you reply or
is it some other infliction?

Here again is what you quoted me saying and what I did say:

To anyone with two brain cells to bang together, the part where you
are quoting me as saying "The OEM's, or some of them at least" does in
no way say or imply that Canon would do the same. The 'Qualifier' in
the quote is where I said and you quoted me as saying "or some of them
at least". Now we could get more basic here so you might be led to an
elementary understanding of what a 'Qualifier' is... but, I don't
really have the time. I went through all of that close to 50 years ago
when in elementary school. However, you really need to take the time
and study up on it.

Let me try an put it in more simple terms for you....

You should ACTUALLY read the message you are replying to, especially
if you are going to quote it in your reply.

Or.... if you are going to message that someone said something they
never did, at least have the intelligence to NOT quote what they
actually said.

TR

 

[PC Medic]

**snip**


As a dealer I can speak with some authority on the markup - At my store the
BCI-3 sells for $20.38 and the BCI-6 at $17.00 (Canadian dollars, 15% HST
extra). I have a small store but receive buying group contract prices when
buying ink (read - I buy at a good price)....our margin on these cartridges
is less than 20%. On every $100 sale of these inks we make less than $20.00
To put some perspective on this I can sell a generic/3rd party/compatible
cartridge for $5.00 and make more money than I can selling the $20.00
original.

The margin on inkjet cartridges is clearly on the manufacturers' side.
Several years ago in a trade magazine I read that HP made a whopping 89%
margin on their cartridges - A cartridge that a retailers sells for $50.00
costs HP in the range of $3.00 to produce....ink, casing, printhead,
packaging...$3.00!

And if you believe that you have a lot to learn about business and believing
everything you read.
As a small shop you are also not buying direct from HP. There has been at
least one (if not more) other mark-ups taken place before you received your
pricing. Even major retailers do not buy direct and instead receive through
a distributor. Each contact along the entire chain gets their share of the
pie. One of the things that makes OEM's less costly is many of the middle
men are out of the picture.

 

[PC Medic]

I never suggested that Canon does. Do you just quote for the hell of
it but do not actually read what you are quoting before you reply or
is it some other infliction?

Uhh, you do remember this thread was about the CANON i850, or is your
OldTimers flaring up???
And by the way, you generalized with the term 'OEM's which last time I
checked would include Canon. While you may not have specifically qualified
them, you also did not disqualify them as in the term 'with the exception of
Canon'.

Here again is what you quoted me saying and what I did say:


To anyone with two brain cells to bang together, the part where you
are quoting me as saying "The OEM's, or some of them at least" does in
no way say or imply that Canon would do the same. The 'Qualifier' in
the quote is where I said and you quoted me as saying "or some of them
at least". Now we could get more basic here so you might be led to an
elementary understanding of what a 'Qualifier' is... but, I don't
really have the time. I went through all of that close to 50 years ago
when in elementary school. However, you really need to take the time
and study up on it.

Ahh see, I was right.
Fact is I was quite aware of what you said, I responded with fact about
Epson (off topic for this thread) and Canon (on topic for this thread). This
means I replied with mention of multiple manufactures. This would qualify as
a plural or in other words OEM's. I believe that is the term you used I had
just broke it out to two specific examples. My apologies as my intent was
not to confuse you and that was purely accidental.

Let me try an put it in more simple terms for you....

You should ACTUALLY read the message you are replying to, especially
if you are going to quote it in your reply.

Or.... if you are going to message that someone said something they
never did, at least have the intelligence to NOT quote what they
actually said.

You do realize that what you have just stated here is technically
impossible.
You perhaps should ACTUALLY think before you type. You should also learn
that sometimes proper etiquette dictates you only quote the 'relevant'
portion of the original text so as not to waste time and bandwidth.

 

[TR]

Look Kid, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with something
that doesn't read the messages it replies to... It still stands...
Read before you answer or don't quote what you don't read. Now spin
it all you want kid but it still stands...

TR

 

[Jeff H]

And if you believe that you have a lot to learn about business and believing
everything you read.
As a small shop you are also not buying direct from HP. There has been at
least one (if not more) other mark-ups taken place before you received your
pricing. Even major retailers do not buy direct and instead receive through
a distributor. Each contact along the entire chain gets their share of the
pie. One of the things that makes OEM's less costly is many of the middle
men are out of the picture.

You're right, I buy from a distributor who in turn buys from HP Canada.
Their margin ranges from 3 - 8% on HP consumables.

Jeff H

 

[Martin Trautmann]

As a dealer I can speak with some authority on the markup - At my store the
BCI-3 sells for $20.38 and the BCI-6 at $17.00 (Canadian dollars, 15% HST
extra). I have a small store but receive buying group contract prices when
buying ink (read - I buy at a good price)....our margin on these cartridges
is less than 20%. On every $100 sale of these inks we make less than $20.00
To put some perspective on this I can sell a generic/3rd party/compatible
cartridge for $5.00 and make more money than I can selling the $20.00
original.

Aehm - please tell some stupid non-business man how this can happen.

I'll assume the BCI-3 as sell 20 $, buy 16 $, gain 4$.

Now I assume that you need the same space to store the cartridge, the
same time to handle over the cartridge to the customer - and you say,
you make more profit on a $5 cartridge? Thus you page LESS THAN $1 for
the 3rd party device?

Or do you want to say that you have more complaints for original parts,
complaining from you to Canon, more loss of unsatisfied customers etc.,
since $2 earned on generic is worth more than $4 earned on Canon?

Business seems to be very different in Northern America than in old
Europe?

The margin on inkjet cartridges is clearly on the manufacturers' side.
Several years ago in a trade magazine I read that HP made a whopping 89%
margin on their cartridges - A cartridge that a retailers sells for $50.00
costs HP in the range of $3.00 to produce....ink, casing, printhead,
packaging...$3.00!

Still better than the margin on music CDs or medicine ;-)

All the best,

Same to you,
Martin

 

[Jeff H]

Aehm - please tell some stupid non-business man how this can happen.

I'll assume the BCI-3 as sell 20 $, buy 16 $, gain 4$.

You're right on the money...so to speak. A quick search on ebay shows
several auction about to close where the price per cartridge is around $1.00
each.

The only secret to buying 3rd party cartridges at a really cheap price is
that you normally have to purchase several thousand at a time ;-)

Which begs the question....why do OEM cartridges have to be over 10X the
cost of 3rd party cartridges?

Whoops, time out...OEM ink is of course the benchmark to which 3rd party
inks can only hope to come reasonably close and it does give consistent and
predictable results, also I concede that it does help subsidize printer cost
and R&D - I think what we have been trying to hash out is, "Where is the
line between paying a (fair) premium and robbery?"

My whole argument was in response to the speculation that retailers could be
partly to blame for the dear prices on OEM ink cartridges. If that was true
then surely at least one of the major retailers would decide to lowball ink
for the sake of increased traffic but we don't see that happening. Why
don't we ever see "Regular $19.99 on sale for $6.99"? Because on the retail
side OEM ink is very competitive. On the distribution side (the middle-man
between Retail and Manufacturer) margins are even tighter. Logically, the
high margins must be on the manufacturers' side where competition is not so
much of a factor.

Still better than the margin on music CDs or medicine ;-)

Maybe I should be charging a dispensing fee for ink sales :^)

Cheers,

Jeff H