A
Arno
Your point? Damanding the world be different is very ineffective
as a problem solvong strategy....
Arno
Your point? Damanding the world be different is very ineffective
as a problem solvong strategy....
Arno
A
Arno
[/QUOTE]In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mm said:
Very inlikely in practice. I would advide you to get
better airflow in the case.
Forget about that. No relevant influence.
Arno
A
Arno
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Simon Brown said:Arno said:In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Ant said:Cool. I might get another SeaSonic PSU for my future PSUs. That is
assuming they are still good. 2/2006 is over four years ago.
Antec Basiq 500 Watt ATX Power Supply (BP500U) [started making fan
noises and I only had it since 1/23/2010 -- ugh!]).
Antec is prettied-up ElCheapo with a high price tag. I had
one server-grade EPS from them fail. Opened it and it turned
out to be an insufficiently cooled component, in a configuration
that I can only call either "incompetent" or "designed to fail".
The thing was running at about 40% permenant load and about 80%
load on startup (lots of disks). In addition the overall
impression was that of very cheap build design and component
selection.
I will not buy Antec again.
You get what you pay for. I cannot really recommend
any manufaturer except Enermax. It seems they are
also the only ones that do design and manufacturing
all in-house.
Arno
And why would that be?
Arno
L
larry moe 'n curly
Arno said:
According to JonnyGuru.com, which tests lots of power supplies,
Enermax is good, but so are many other brands, and in 400W size,
quality brands can often be bought for $30-60.
What's the difference between a retail Enermax and something like a
Seasonic, Fortron-Source, Enhance, Channel Well, or Delta? Most seem
to use the same standard controller and protection chips and have
transformers, chokes, and filter capacitors of comparable size. Even
the cheapest PSUs contain protection for overvoltage and overcurrent,
but I haven't seen crowbar protection in any ATX PC PSU. Some newer
high-power PSUs use only high-quality capacitors, including but not
just Enermax, but my old 350W was full of PCE-TUR caps from CEC
Industries.
L
larry moe 'n curly
Ant said:
If that Basiq 500W was made by Fortron-Source, it's probably full of
CapXon brand capacitors that should be replaced. 8 of them are
1000uF, 16V, and 2 are 2200uF, 6.3V, all 8mm diameter, but I think
there's room for fatter 10mm ones. Newer Basiqs are by Delta.
Lots of Seasonics use OST brand caps that are also not the best.
L
larry moe 'n curly
Arno said:
Enlight used several suppliers, and that was a Sirtec (High Power),
which made a wide range of quality.
Antec has used several suppliers. The original SmartPowers and
TruePowers were by Channel Well Technology, but then the company
switched to Seasonic, Fortron-Source (original Basiqs), Delta,
Enhance, and again Channel Well, and I never paid more than $20 for
one (including the replacement capacitors), sometimes with a case.
The older Channel Wells were good until their horrible Fuhjyyu brand
capacitors failed.
S
Simon Brown
Arno said:In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Simon Brown said:Arno said:On 8/30/2010 12:56 PM PT, Arno typed:
According to my notes: 4/24/2005 -- Replaced the dead Enlight 240
watts PSU in Debian/Athlon XP box with an old PSU (Enlight
EN-8341934; Model: HPC-340-101; 340 watts) I kept in my closet
from previous machines. I guess the last PSU was too old? I don't
remember if Enlight PSUs were good back then. :/
Never heard of them. That suggests one of the following: ElCheapo,
memory loss on my side, or lack of knowledge on my side ;-)
Age is a factor though.
Hopefully, my current 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU (since 6/2006 --
awesome so far -- might get another one as my future PSU brand)
and
Seasonic is MID-Range and should be fine as it has a lot
mior power than needed here.
Cool. I might get another SeaSonic PSU for my future PSUs. That is
assuming they are still good. 2/2006 is over four years ago.
Antec Basiq 500 Watt ATX Power Supply (BP500U) [started making
fan noises and I only had it since 1/23/2010 -- ugh!]).
Antec is prettied-up ElCheapo with a high price tag. I had
one server-grade EPS from them fail. Opened it and it turned
out to be an insufficiently cooled component, in a configuration
that I can only call either "incompetent" or "designed to fail".
The thing was running at about 40% permenant load and about 80%
load on startup (lots of disks). In addition the overall
impression was that of very cheap build design and component
selection.
I will not buy Antec again.
Great. So what are good brand of these days that isn't so pricey
these days for home users?
You get what you pay for. I cannot really recommend
any manufaturer except Enermax. It seems they are
also the only ones that do design and manufacturing
all in-house.
Arno
And why would that be?
Its completely silly to claim that they are the only ones that do design and manufacturing all in house.
A
Arno
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Simon Brown said:Arno said:In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Simon Brown said:Arno wrote:
On 8/30/2010 12:56 PM PT, Arno typed:
According to my notes: 4/24/2005 -- Replaced the dead Enlight 240
watts PSU in Debian/Athlon XP box with an old PSU (Enlight
EN-8341934; Model: HPC-340-101; 340 watts) I kept in my closet
from previous machines. I guess the last PSU was too old? I don't
remember if Enlight PSUs were good back then. :/
Never heard of them. That suggests one of the following: ElCheapo,
memory loss on my side, or lack of knowledge on my side ;-)
Age is a factor though.
Hopefully, my current 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU (since 6/2006 --
awesome so far -- might get another one as my future PSU brand)
and
Seasonic is MID-Range and should be fine as it has a lot
mior power than needed here.
Cool. I might get another SeaSonic PSU for my future PSUs. That is
assuming they are still good. 2/2006 is over four years ago.
Antec Basiq 500 Watt ATX Power Supply (BP500U) [started making
fan noises and I only had it since 1/23/2010 -- ugh!]).
Antec is prettied-up ElCheapo with a high price tag. I had
one server-grade EPS from them fail. Opened it and it turned
out to be an insufficiently cooled component, in a configuration
that I can only call either "incompetent" or "designed to fail".
The thing was running at about 40% permenant load and about 80%
load on startup (lots of disks). In addition the overall
impression was that of very cheap build design and component
selection.
I will not buy Antec again.
Great. So what are good brand of these days that isn't so pricey
these days for home users?
You get what you pay for. I cannot really recommend
any manufaturer except Enermax. It seems they are
also the only ones that do design and manufacturing
all in-house.
Arno
And why would that be?
Incidentially, they are. Give me one other manufacturer that
does it.
Arno
S
Simon Brown
Arno said:In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Simon Brown said:Arno said:In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Simon Brown <[email protected]>
wrote:
Arno wrote:
On 8/30/2010 12:56 PM PT, Arno typed:
According to my notes: 4/24/2005 -- Replaced the dead Enlight
240 watts PSU in Debian/Athlon XP box with an old PSU (Enlight
EN-8341934; Model: HPC-340-101; 340 watts) I kept in my closet
from previous machines. I guess the last PSU was too old? I
don't remember if Enlight PSUs were good back then. :/
Never heard of them. That suggests one of the following:
ElCheapo, memory loss on my side, or lack of knowledge on my
side ;-)
Age is a factor though.
Hopefully, my current 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU (since 6/2006
-- awesome so far -- might get another one as my future PSU
brand) and
Seasonic is MID-Range and should be fine as it has a lot
mior power than needed here.
Cool. I might get another SeaSonic PSU for my future PSUs. That
is assuming they are still good. 2/2006 is over four years ago.
Antec Basiq 500 Watt ATX Power Supply (BP500U) [started making
fan noises and I only had it since 1/23/2010 -- ugh!]).
Antec is prettied-up ElCheapo with a high price tag. I had
one server-grade EPS from them fail. Opened it and it turned
out to be an insufficiently cooled component, in a configuration
that I can only call either "incompetent" or "designed to fail".
The thing was running at about 40% permenant load and about 80%
load on startup (lots of disks). In addition the overall
impression was that of very cheap build design and component
selection.
I will not buy Antec again.
Great. So what are good brand of these days that isn't so pricey
these days for home users?
You get what you pay for. I cannot really recommend
any manufaturer except Enermax. It seems they are
also the only ones that do design and manufacturing
all in-house.
Arno
That is a completely silly claim.
And why would that be?
Incidentially, they are.
Nope.
Give me one other manufacturer that does it.
R
Rod Speed
Ant wrote
Even if he does, he wont see any measurable effect going between say 60 and 61 tabs.
Likely it is if its firefox and 70 tabs.
Yeah, a few that I use do too. I find it hard to believe that all 70 of his do tho.
Sure, I do too, but not 70.
I guess it might be possible with say stock trading and an individual tab for each
stock, all using the same site that does use a lot of cpu resources for each tab,
but even then, I find it VERY hard to believe that that would produce a measurable
increase in the temperature between say 70 and 71 tabs.
Even if he does, he wont see any measurable effect going between say 60 and 61 tabs.
Likely it is if its firefox and 70 tabs.
Yeah, a few that I use do too. I find it hard to believe that all 70 of his do tho.
(yes, I do open like 30+ tabs at once).
Sure, I do too, but not 70.
I guess it might be possible with say stock trading and an individual tab for each
stock, all using the same site that does use a lot of cpu resources for each tab,
but even then, I find it VERY hard to believe that that would produce a measurable
increase in the temperature between say 70 and 71 tabs.
M
mm
FireFox 3.6.8
I thought it would only be really hot for a week, like most years, or
I might have rushed to pick out a new furnace/ac.
I'll do a google search for a harddrive, then open 3 or 4 of the
resultes in separate tabs; do an ebay seach and open 3 or 4; look up
a news story or a person or something historical and open up 4 or 5
pages related to each of them, etc.
I don't close the pages until I buy one of the things in the open
pages or buy something else instead. Don't close the news or personal
story pages until I discuss them with a friend.
In fall, winter and spring this works fine, but in this really hot
summer it's been a problem. (Also my computer is vulnerable because
a problem with my oil furnace left soot on things that had
electrostatic attraction. I vacuumed much of it off with a 4 amp
vacuum, and lowered the operating temp by 10 to 20 degrees, but I want
to vacuum again with a 7 amp vac.
I could have been more clear. It's not that I can actually identify a
different temp. But it's that with 20 tabs open ASUS Probe will start
beeping. And with 10 tabs open it won't.
Today, as if in answer to your question, was an unusually specific
situtation. It started off cool today, only 80 degrees at noon, but
by 3:30 it was in the mid 90's. Firefox had been open for two hours,
with about 40 or 50 tabs just sitting there, filled in, but when
someone on the phone asked me a question and I opened one more tab,
Asus Probe started beeping.
I turned off my sound** and after 3 more tabs it was 166F, and I read
quickly, and then closed FF altogether, and the temp dropped down to
154.
**I've gotten some but not a lot of feedback about what temps are
actually going to ruin my CPU. I think I have the Probe program set
to beep at a much lower temp than that, so once in a while I let it go
higher. The worst time was the first time I knew it was
overheatign, when the programs wouldn't work right, but I didn't have
anything to measure the temp then, so I don't know how hot it was.
But even that didnt' seem to damage anything once it cooled off.
Maybe so.
Recommendations perhaps?
R
Rod Speed
mm wrote
I do it like that too, but dont get to 60 or 70.
That last wont be making any real difference, its just hot weather.
Yeah, that makes much more sense.
We can go for 10 days over 100.
Which cpu ?
Certainly so now that you said it more clearly above in this post.
I still use IE most of the time myself.
I dont have an overheating problem at all. I use a swamp cooler and like it
warmer than most. I dont usually turn the cooler on until its over 85 in the room.
I do it like that too, but dont get to 60 or 70.
That last wont be making any real difference, its just hot weather.
Yeah, that makes much more sense.
We can go for 10 days over 100.
Which cpu ?
Certainly so now that you said it more clearly above in this post.
I still use IE most of the time myself.
I dont have an overheating problem at all. I use a swamp cooler and like it
warmer than most. I dont usually turn the cooler on until its over 85 in the room.
D
David Brown
It should be a pretty simple matter to start task manager and see if
firefox (or anything else) is using CPU power.
Unless you are talking about sites with active javascript running, or
lots of flash, then tabs don't take cpu power once the page is loaded
and rendered. They take up memory, of course, but not processing power.
(flashblock is /very/ useful here.)
I have firefox open all the time, and I can easily have a lot more than
70 tabs open at a time. I regularly have several projects that are
under active development at work, and for any given project I might have
two or three firefox windows with lots of tabs open - manual pages,
links to resources, google searches, etc. It's a lot easier just to
keep the tabs open while they might still be useful, than to close them
and find them again.
But I can't imagine why multiple tabs would take cpu power and therefore
increase the temperature of the system. Perhaps the tabs are all
showing "hot" movies?
D
David Brown
Have you done some basic checking with (at least) task manager to see
how much processor power and memory firefox is using?
Firefox takes a fair amount of memory, but so does any browser with a
lot of tabs open. Older versions were worse, and also leaked memory,
which is where it got its reputation for being resource hungry. But all
browsers use a lot of memory, with varying amounts for different types
of content. You will probably find that Opera uses least resources for
large numbers of tabs, but there is not much difference.
The trick that will make a /huge/ difference to browser memory, as well
as cpu power, browser speed, and ease of use, is to install flashblock
to cut out flash except when you specifically want to see something. I
also recommend adblock plus to remove most adverts. This gets rid of
the flashing, blinking, beeping boxes around the web pages so that it
takes no processing power.
R
Rod Speed
David Brown wrote
Bet it is.
Its more complicated than that.
He has since says what he is doing.
Bet it is.
Its more complicated than that.
He has since says what he is doing.
Y
Yousuf Khan
Plus, I don't really think a short-circuit is the appropriate failure
mode to be discussing here, since a short-circuit is too much power
going through a circuit, whereas I was talking about too little power
going through.
Yousuf Khan
R
Rod Speed
Yousuf Khan wrote
Not necessarily. Some badly designed power supplys can die rather
spectacularly when they are overloaded, taking out the over voltage
protection on the drive. The regulation basically fails, delivering the
maxium voltage the supply can produce on the rails.
Not necessarily. Some badly designed power supplys can die rather
spectacularly when they are overloaded, taking out the over voltage
protection on the drive. The regulation basically fails, delivering the
maxium voltage the supply can produce on the rails.
A
Arno
Well, yes. But since it is a normal start-up and power-down
situation, there is almost no circuit that can be damaged by too
little power. In fact, it is pretty difficult (but possible) to
design such a ciruit in the in the first place.
So, no. The only thing in a PC that can cause hardware damage (but
will not get damaged itselv) with too low voltages is active cooling.
HDDs in particular will not spin with too low voltages and thereby
will avoid motor damage. A too slow spin would indeed damage
a modern FDB over a relatively short time. Incidentially, a HDD
will also spin-down immediately if it does not mamage to bring the
spindle up to speed in a very short time.
Arno