bubbas

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dm

Can't figure out why anyone would not at least try Alias's advice on a
spare hardrive so that you actually know What you are talking about???
 
dm said:
Can't figure out why anyone would not at least try Alias's advice on a
spare hardrive so that you actually know What you are talking about???

Stubbornness and they feel *threatened* by Ubuntu.

Alias
 
Fair enough, I don't know, but I might be willing to try, just answer me
these two questions. Will Ubuntu run all my current games equal to Windows
Vista. Does\Will UBuntu offer DX10 support ?
 
Alias said:
Stubbornness and they feel *threatened* by Ubuntu.

LOL why would anyone feel threatened by an operating system?
People make their choices there is no threat.
I have tried Ubuntu numerous times and simply do not like linux. I don't
feel threatened by it, its just my choice.
 
Beck said:
LOL why would anyone feel threatened by an operating system?
People make their choices there is no threat.
I have tried Ubuntu numerous times and simply do not like linux. I
don't feel threatened by it, its just my choice.

And the version of Ubuntu that you tried was?

Alias
 
Dale said:
Fair enough, I don't know, but I might be willing to try, just answer me
these two questions. Will Ubuntu run all my current games equal to Windows
Vista.

Probably not, although it's difficult to say when you consider you
didn't name any game.
Does\Will UBuntu offer DX10 support ?

Good question. XP doesn't and all my games run on XP with no problem.

The main difference is that with Ubuntu, it's free, no worry about
viruses or malware and most things can be done with it.

Games seem to be leaving the PC anyway in favor of MS' XBox, Wii and
Playstation.

Alias
 
Alias said:
Probably not, although it's difficult to say when you consider you
didn't name any game.


Good question. XP doesn't and all my games run on XP with no problem.

The main difference is that with Ubuntu, it's free, no worry about
viruses or malware and most things can be done with it.

Games seem to be leaving the PC anyway in favor of MS' XBox, Wii and
Playstation.

This is true, the PC market is sad and pathetic compared to what it used to
be.

I remember when I used to go on vacations to Florida in the early 90's. EB
Games was overflowing with PC games. Console?? What Console? They were on a
small shelf next to the counter.

When I moved back to Germany 1.5 years ago, EB Games I went to had 2 shelves
with PC Games.

When I went there again 6 months ago, they were down to one single shelf
tucked all the way in the back in darkest corner of the store.

Honestly, I don't think the console market is that much better though. The
only reason why the rest of the store is filled with console games is just
because there are so many different consoles to support.

PS2, PS3, XBOX, XBOX 360, GameBoy in its various flavors, PSP, etc.

That's 6 shelves right there if I assign 1 shelf to each console. At that
point in time...that EB Games store is full.

I think games, across all systems not just PC are severely suffering from
the fact that their complexity has gone beyond what small independent
developers can easily accomplish. If I look at the screenshots of some of
the latest games, sure the graphics are breathtaking...but unlike the
average Joe I actually also know the huge amounts of effort, money and time
it takes to do something like that from a development standpoint.

Back in the DOS days, games were everywhere. All you needed to write one was
a compiler, a pixel editor and creativity. Some of it was crap...but there
were also a lot of really innovative really fun games that I think are
totally missing these days across all systems.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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Obviously that's an open ended question, since the list of games could be
quite large. But if I stuck with just the current game, it would be Supreme
Commander. Though it does appear one lad got it to work
(http://www.solar1.net/) at least to some degree. But if I have to do all
that everytime I want to run a DX game, then Linux is still not an option
for a gamer, just like the Mac still isn't an option. I'm guessing about 3-4
more years

This is going to be a great year for PC gaming, assuming that at least half
the titles hold up to their expectations. (Crysis, Bioshock, C&C3, Ureal
Tourny 3, Duke nukem 4 ?) Everytime the new round of consoles come out,
everyone starts talking about the end of PC gaming. But Xbox requires that I
pay $8 a month to play on-line (not to mention console gaming sucks), so I
don't know that will win over too many gamers who play on-line for free with
PCs. PS3 might do some damage, assuming they can fix their current problems.

I haven't had a virus on my system in about 6 years, and only then it was
because I had left the admin password blank. I don't have the same problem
with malware that others seem to, guess I don't go to the right sites or
load up enough warez
 
Alias said:
Probably not, although it's difficult to say when you consider you didn't
name any game.


Good question. XP doesn't and all my games run on XP with no problem.

The main difference is that with Ubuntu, it's free, no worry about viruses
or malware and most things can be done with it.

Do you really seriously think that Linux is immune to viruses?
 
Dale said:
Obviously that's an open ended question, since the list of games could be
quite large. But if I stuck with just the current game, it would be
Supreme Commander. Though it does appear one lad got it to work
(http://www.solar1.net/) at least to some degree. But if I have to do all
that everytime I want to run a DX game, then Linux is still not an option
for a gamer, just like the Mac still isn't an option. I'm guessing about
3-4 more years

Actually that is incorrect, you don't have to go do all that.

The only reason he went through all that is because he compiled Wine
himself. There is no need for that.

Wine can be installed without needing to compile the source manually or you
can even go with Cedega which even gives you a nice user interface for
installing and running windows games.

That essentially reduces what needs to be done to the very last step at the
bottom: Install and run the game just like under windows.

The support just needs to get better still.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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Beck said:
Do you really seriously think that Linux is immune to viruses?

Immune? Of course not.
More resistant? Yes, seeing how it is not possible without root access to
modify anything essential to the operating system.

It is however not immune of course to total user incompetence if a user
gives a malware or a virus root access and lets it have fun.

But nothing is immune to that...

I actually don't think windows (any version) is all that much safer in the
hands of an incompetent user. I've seen the resulting damage to an XP
system with 18 running malware processes and over 10,000 various other
items detected by ad-aware. The system was so severely crippled nothing
short of a complete re-format and a new owner could save it.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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Can't figure out why anyone would not at least try Alias's advice on a
spare hardrive so that you actually know What you are talking about???
THe thing is, some of us do.
 
Being a technically-minded person, I do just that.
About once a year I give the latest flavor du jour Linux variant
a whirl. So far I've always been disappointed, and I would not
recommend the experience to a non-technical user.

Gary VanderMolen
 
Alias said:
The main difference is that with Ubuntu, it's free, no worry about
viruses or malware and most things can be done with it.

I think the virus card is overplayed. In the 22 years that I've
been using Microsoft operating systems I've only caught a
virus once, which happened under Windows 3.1 when I
accidentally booted from a floppy that had a bootsector
virus.
Use common sense, run a good anti-virus/anti-malware
program, and you'll be fine.

Gary VanderMolen
 
Stephan Rose said:
Dale White wrote:
Actually that is incorrect, you don't have to go do all that.

The only reason he went through all that is because he compiled Wine
himself. There is no need for that.

Wine can be installed without needing to compile the source manually or
you
can even go with Cedega which even gives you a nice user interface for
installing and running windows games.

That essentially reduces what needs to be done to the very last step at
the
bottom: Install and run the game just like under windows.

The support just needs to get better still.

I'll have to take your word for it. A couple of posters in the SupCom Tech
forums asked if they could run it under Linux and most answers were no,
except for that guy's posts. I'm not a novice PC user, I'm just lazy and if
it requires more than me inserting a disk and working as well as it does for
me under XP\Vista, then asking me to use Ubuntu (or any distro), just
because it's free doesn't serve me any purpose. I'm about 10-15 years too
old for linux I guess. If I was just starting out now, like I was 15 years
ago when Windows was taking off to replace Novell, I'd probably be pro
linux. But I'm tired of learning from the ground up and I just want to run
on Auto-Pilot. as Tiki barber said about his retirement, I say about Linux.
It's a young man's game, for people who are looking to make lots of money
and\or a name for themselves.

I just want to pop a disc and go, I'm already quiet good at trouble shooting
windows problems in relations to games. it would be ground zero to learn to
trouble shoot Linux problems with games. Since gaming doesn't pay my salary,
then it doesn't serve me anything to spend the time learning Linux. If Linux
takes over the world, then I'll adjust as need be.
 
I'll have to take your word for it. A couple of posters in the SupCom Tech
forums asked if they could run it under Linux and most answers were no,
except for that guy's posts. I'm not a novice PC user, I'm just lazy and
if it requires more than me inserting a disk and working as well as it
does for me under XP\Vista, then asking me to use Ubuntu (or any distro),
just because it's free doesn't serve me any purpose. I'm about 10-15 years
too old for linux I guess. If I was just starting out now, like I was 15
years ago when Windows was taking off to replace Novell, I'd probably be
pro linux. But I'm tired of learning from the ground up and I just want to
run on Auto-Pilot. as Tiki barber said about his retirement, I say about
Linux. It's a young man's game, for people who are looking to make lots of
money and\or a name for themselves.

I just want to pop a disc and go, I'm already quiet good at trouble
shooting windows problems in relations to games. it would be ground zero
to learn to trouble shoot Linux problems with games. Since gaming doesn't
pay my salary, then it doesn't serve me anything to spend the time
learning Linux. If Linux takes over the world, then I'll adjust as need
be.

I have no problem admitting to the shortcomings Linux does have and at this
moment gaming is most definitely one of them. For me that is a minor issue
though that I can easily live with.

The sad part is, it wouldn't need to be that way. There is no real reason to
use DirectX over OpenGL these days. Any game written in OpenGL will run
virtually on any platform with no code modifications if the code was
written with cross-platform compatibility in mind.

Also games have the advantage that they implement their own UI and don't
need to worry about the operating system specific UI making it even easier
to make them cross platform.

Wikipedia has a nice article on the OpenGL / DirectX Subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Direct3D_and_OpenGL

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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I have no problem admitting to the shortcomings Linux does have and at
this
moment gaming is most definitely one of them. For me that is a minor issue
though that I can easily live with.

Also games have the advantage that they implement their own UI and don't
need to worry about the operating system specific UI making it even easier
to make them cross platform.

Wikipedia has a nice article on the OpenGL / DirectX Subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Direct3D_and_OpenGL

And I myself have no problem with Linux. I have stated before and will
continue to state, I wish Linux and Mac all the best and I would be thrilled
if Linux\Mac captured 30-40% of the desktop space. Microsoft is in dire need
of some serious competition, and from something that can't buy or quash with
ease. Linux is in a great spot to do that.

Just like 15 years ago, people wanted a change from Novell, if for no other
reason then they just wanted something new, I see the same thing being true
with Windows today. Unfortunately, there seems to be a little too much
infighting within the linux world, especially around the KDE vs. Gnome stuff
(I don't really know, just saw an article). Hopefully the Linux folks can
band together in the near future and work on producing a product that's a
windows killer, which in turn I hope sends chills down Microsoft's spine and
they come out with a OS so awesome, we all actually go wow. Just like after
AMD kicked Intel around enough, Intel finally produced a chip worth going
wow over with the Core 2 duo.

I avoided AMD's until the K7 line, which is when I felt they had enough of a
solid package it was worth the jump. I stayed with Nvidia until ATI released
the 9700\9800 family. So when Linux gets to that same level, then I probably
won't have as much problem with making a jump. until then, I'll leave it up
to the young energetic types to work out all the bugs
 
Dale said:
And I myself have no problem with Linux. I have stated before and will
continue to state, I wish Linux and Mac all the best and I would be
thrilled if Linux\Mac captured 30-40% of the desktop space. Microsoft is
in dire need of some serious competition, and from something that can't
buy or quash with ease. Linux is in a great spot to do that.

Agreed with that.
Just like 15 years ago, people wanted a change from Novell, if for no
other reason then they just wanted something new, I see the same thing
being true with Windows today. Unfortunately, there seems to be a little
too much infighting within the linux world, especially around the KDE vs.
Gnome stuff (I don't really know, just saw an article). Hopefully the

Not sure on the details there either, I figure it's just a matter of
philosophy as to who likes what UI better. They basically just have
different looks.

One thing though is that it doesn't really matter if you run KDE or Gnome.
If you run KDE you can still run apps written for Gnome and vice versa.

It is kind of nice though to have a choice as to what UI you run. Hell, you
can even switch between the two at will if you are so inclined.

Not *everyone* likes one particular look of an UI which is why I think that
Microsoft's path of "Everything must look alike" is a bad idea. No matter
how good any kind of...anything...is it will never please *everyone*. So MS
forcing one single thing on everyone is bound to piss off all those who
don't like it but also are left with no other alternative choices.
Linux folks can band together in the near future and work on producing a
product that's a windows killer, which in turn I hope sends chills down
Microsoft's spine and they come out with a OS so awesome, we all actually
go wow. Just like after AMD kicked Intel around enough, Intel finally
produced a chip worth going wow over with the Core 2 duo.

There is one significant difference though. It is very easy to switch
processors, just throw in a different motherboard and processor. Done. In
case of intel / amd it has no actual impact on the software end (besides
performance differences).

Switching operating systems tends to be a more permanent type deal as a
person has to use different applications, learn new rules, etc. It has a
major impact on the software end and on how that person performs their
daily tasks on their computer. As such, if someone does switch to another
operating system they are more inclined to not switch back without a really
significant reason to do so.

I can tell ya right now, the performance difference between Kubuntu and XP
is drastic and I've switched over 50% of my needs over already. So even if
MS were to change Vista tomorrow and remove all the things I don't like
about it, I wouldn't get it anymore. No longer would have a need for it
beyond having it around as a test system.
I avoided AMD's until the K7 line, which is when I felt they had enough of
a solid package it was worth the jump. I stayed with Nvidia until ATI
released the 9700\9800 family. So when Linux gets to that same level, then
I probably won't have as much problem with making a jump. until then, I'll
leave it up to the young energetic types to work out all the bugs

Well is linux at the level? Yes it actually is. There are plenty of users in
this very newsgroup that have as much issues with drivers under Vista as
there are people who have issues with drivers under Linux. Personally the
only issue I had was with the default nVidia driver in Kubuntu not working
with my video card as it didn't support the 7800 GT yet. Worked perfectly
fine on my other system with the 6600 though. Also the current beta-release
worked perfectly fine with my 7800 GT. I suspect that when Kubuntu 6.10 was
released that the 7800 GT didn't even exist yet and someone made the simple
mistake of not defaulting to the vesa driver. It takes less than a minute
to fix if you know how.

So little issues like that to me are the primary things that need to be
ironed out.

But what really needs to happen though is that developers need to start
making software for linux. That actually is the key.

This whole argument of "I will use Linux when I can use my Windows apps on
it" that some people like to bring up is actually total crap. It's akin to
saying "I'll drive a car with a diesel engine when I can put gasoline in
it."

It's kind of a vicious circle as people don't like to use linux because
their favorite software doesn't run on it and developers don't make
software for it because enough people aren't using it.

Somehow enough people have to break that circle to make anything change.

I personally do it by making sure that anything I develop from this day
forth will run on all platforms. Was a small learning curve but...not the
end of the world. It doesn't make my day to day work any more difficult now
that I've learned the things I need to know.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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