Boot Up Fan Noise

[Paul]

I apologize for continuing this thread, but I pulled off the case side and
determined the CPU fan is making the noise. The fan is a standard "AMD" CPU
fan. Could someone recommend a quality fan that should last more than a
year? TIA for your time and trouble.

You could try one of these. CNPS9500A from Zalman (A = AM2). Uses a clip
and the existing frame on the motherboard. $49

http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=277

There are ~1200 reviews here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835118223

On that one, the manual shows a three pin fan connector. That
can be connected to a four pin header, but one pin will be left
unconnected. If a motherboard uses PWM fan speed control, then
the fan will run at full speed. By placing the provided Fanmate controller
in series with the cable, and twisting the dial, a lower fixed fan
speed can be selected.

I use another Zalman cooler, and run it at a fixed speed all the
time. My CNPS7000 has been running for more than two years of fairly
heavy use. I put the computer in suspend to RAM at night, so the
fan doesn't run 24 hours a day.

Paul

 

[kony]

Immediately after "Post", I get very loud fan noise. The system is about a
year old using a NVidia 6600GT, AMD 3700, and there is a case fan.
Can someone tell me which fan is probably the culprit ??

The easy answer is, don't guess or play random odds.

If we could just play odds, the failure wouldn't have
happened in the first place, right?

Check all fans, and those that have sleeve bearings are
probably due to be relubed right about now, especially those
that are thinner and/or running at higher RPM, and/or not in
a horizontal orientation if they're sleeve bearing fans.

If we wanted to play odds, it'd be the video card or a
motherboard chipset fan. Odds are, that's the problem, but
that won't be a consolation for those who have a different
problem.

 

[GT]

My kid's system does the same thing.
He tells me it's because the driver software to throttle the fan speed is
not
yet running - the sound sudenly drops a lot as Windows finishes loading.

Basically - it's normal.
Think of it as a useful confirmation that the fan is operational!

No - that is something else. That is temperature sensitive fan control - as
found in media centre PCs like those from Shuttle (only example I am
familiar with). This kind of fan noise is just a loud fan that is throttled
down (due to its noise) to lower speeds when things are only 'warm'. This
fan noise will sound like an engine revving up or down. I think the original
problem is more a fan starting to fail - a loud vibrating noise? Does that
sound right Goff?

 

[Goff]

No - that is something else. That is temperature sensitive fan control - as
found in media centre PCs like those from Shuttle (only example I am
familiar with). This kind of fan noise is just a loud fan that is throttled
down (due to its noise) to lower speeds when things are only 'warm'. This
fan noise will sound like an engine revving up or down. I think the original
problem is more a fan starting to fail - a loud vibrating noise? Does that
sound right Goff?

Yes. It sounds like a vibrating noise. I accidentally hit the box with my knee
when it was noisy and it went back to quiet. The fan is dirty, but because of
the blades, I can't get to the fuzz blocking some of the fins.
Anyway, I don't see how the fan comes off. Does anyone have experience
with the stock AMD fan setup and its removal ?? Thanks for all the help.

 

[GT]

Yes. It sounds like a vibrating noise. I accidentally hit the box with
my knee
when it was noisy and it went back to quiet. The fan is dirty, but
because of
the blades, I can't get to the fuzz blocking some of the fins.
Anyway, I don't see how the fan comes off. Does anyone have experience
with the stock AMD fan setup and its removal ?? Thanks for all the help.

If it is the CPU cooler fan that is on its way out, then you need to get it
sorted out as an overheating AMD processor will burn itself out (not like
intel, which throttles itself to prevent overheating). You can either buy a
completely new heatsink/fan (sometimes called HSF) and replace the lot
(perhaps go for something quiet) or you could just replace the fan. You will
find it is harder to get hold of replacement CPU fans, most shops just sell
standard size case fans (40mm, 80mm, 90mm). What you might consider is
removing the broken fan and installing a fan bracket with a large fan
attached - you will find these in a number of places - I can think of
www.quietpc.co.uk. This is a metal bracket that screws on where your PCI
cards are attached to the case and you can position the fan above the CPU
cooler.

I would avoid getting a second hand HSFs (from ebay or elsewhere) as you
don't know how long a second hand one might last!

I would personally see this as an opportunity to upgrade - find out what the
maximum processor your motherboard can take and buy one of those in a retail
pack (not OEM) and you will get the heatsink and fan in the box - new CPU +
new fans to boot! I am guessing, but your AMD 3700+ is probably socket 939,
so can probably be replaced with a dual core Athlon 64, maybe 4600+ or
faster. Why not stick a little more memory in there at the same time?!!

Replacing the CPU would not affect any software unless you move from single
to dual core, in which case, Windows XP may need to be re-installed or at
least repaired.

You cheapest and easiest option is to replace the fan - if the old one is
failing, then don't worry about breaking it when you remove it, but search
google for help on "replacing stock AMD 939 HSF" and there is bound to be
something.

Second easiest (almost as easy as fan only) is to go for a complete new HSF.

Hardest, but best outcome is to replace the CPU and HSF.

Keep us posted!

 

[Strobe]

Yes. It sounds like a vibrating noise. I accidentally hit the box with my knee
when it was noisy and it went back to quiet.

That sounds more like something loose that's vibrating, rather than the fan
itself...

The fan is dirty, but because of
the blades, I can't get to the fuzz blocking some of the fins.
Anyway, I don't see how the fan comes off. Does anyone have experience
with the stock AMD fan setup and its removal ?? Thanks for all the help.

On my AMD3000 (Skt939) the fan is simply screwed to the heatsink.
What version is yours?

I've had the fan off a few times to clean the blades and fins.
A pipecleaner helps get deep between the fins when I take the whole thing off.

 

[Goff]

That sounds more like something loose that's vibrating, rather than the fan
itself...


On my AMD3000 (Skt939) the fan is simply screwed to the heatsink.
What version is yours?

I've had the fan off a few times to clean the blades and fins.
A pipecleaner helps get deep between the fins when I take the whole thing

off.

It's a 939/3700. No screws. I called AMD tech support this morning and got full
instructions on removing the unit. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the heat sink
and fan come off as a unit.
Since the unit is only about a year old, they are sending me A NEW
FAN/HEATSINK AT NO COST. At least one consumer is ahead of the game if
only temporarily. Thanks to all for your responses. You're very accomodating.

 

[Strobe]

off.

It's a 939/3700. No screws. I called AMD tech support this morning and got full
instructions on removing the unit. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the heat sink
and fan come off as a unit.

And, I bet, once it was off you could see how to remove the fan!

Since the unit is only about a year old, they are sending me A NEW
FAN/HEATSINK AT NO COST. At least one consumer is ahead of the game if
only temporarily. Thanks to all for your responses. You're very accomodating.

That's nice service from AMD.

 

[jameshanley39]

Much easier, and safer, to use a short rubber hose with one end by your ear
and the other near the offending part.

It is absolutely safe. and much smarter, to stick your finger on the
hub of the fan, to locate a problematic fan.

The rubber hose may still have its uses though. In a computer. I think
it was initially or previously used in diagnosing problems with cars..

I remove parts too to find noises. Basic troubleshooting! Easier to
stop a fan though. If it is a fan.

 

[jameshanley39]

My kid's system does the same thing.
He tells me it's because the driver software to throttle the fan speed is not
yet running - the sound sudenly drops a lot as Windows finishes loading.

Basically - it's normal.
Think of it as a useful confirmation that the fan is operational!

Is there a reason why you set your posts to dissapear from archives?
Is it because you think your post is not worth keeping?
If it was any use, don't you think it would be a crime .

I have seen the symptoms similar to what you speak of. As you say,
"normal".

It was from SpeedFan in the BIOS. The fan starts at full speed, and
when speedfan is off, it continues. But when speedfan is on, it goes
quiet, and only rises when and whilst the cpu gets over a certain
temp, until it goes down again.
It was loud immediately after turning it on, and went quiet during
POST.

But what the OP mentioned, was fan going loud after POST (presumably
after POST had -finished-, and continuing afterwards)..

If it was only loud momentarily and then went quiet, I doubt it would
bother him. He seems quite keen on dealing with it.

 

[jameshanley39]

It is absolutely safe. and much smarter, to stick your finger on the
hub of the fan, to locate a problematic fan.

[to find] a noisy fan rather. For case fan or CPU fan, you could
unplug the fan's wires from its power source(motherboard or psu)

For PSU fan, its power source is inside the PSU. PSU fan wires are
plugged in there. (sometimes soldered in). Easy to hold the hub of
the fan and stop it. Safer than sticking a pencil in there.

No hose necessary.

where do you get a short rubber hose from anyway? do you cut a real
one? do you have them lying around? why/howcome?! What do you
usually use them for? I have often heard people mention about these
rubber hoses..

 

[Strobe]

Is there a reason why you set your posts to dissapear from archives?
Is it because you think your post is not worth keeping?
If it was any use, don't you think it would be a crime .

I don't consider my contributions to be so profound that they deserve
preservation for posterity.

I have seen the symptoms similar to what you speak of. As you say,
"normal".

It was from SpeedFan in the BIOS. The fan starts at full speed, and
when speedfan is off, it continues. But when speedfan is on, it goes
quiet, and only rises when and whilst the cpu gets over a certain
temp, until it goes down again.
It was loud immediately after turning it on, and went quiet during
POST.

But what the OP mentioned, was fan going loud after POST (presumably
after POST had -finished-, and continuing afterwards)..

If it was only loud momentarily and then went quiet, I doubt it would
bother him. He seems quite keen on dealing with it.

Actually, the situation I mentioned was from the (very) noisy fan on a video
card. The noise occured during post, until Windows loaded the video card
drivers and they started controlling the fan.
It was a bit disconcerting at first, but it makes good sense for the default
fan speed to be its maximum - more cards die from overheating than from
overcooling. As a design consideration, starting off at max helps
overcome any startup stiction, allowing the use of a cheaper fan...

 

[kony]

For PSU fan, its power source is inside the PSU. PSU fan wires are
plugged in there. (sometimes soldered in). Easy to hold the hub of
the fan and stop it. Safer than sticking a pencil in there.

Often the PSU has the fan on the back, or a grill on the
bottom. Either way it is not so realistic to try to hold
the hub since it's not accessible from the back and blocked
by the grill. Particularly when talking about the rear fan
it is a bad idea to use a pencil as a pencil is conductive
and right behind the fan there is typically live mains
voltage so long as the PSU is running (which it'd have to be
to have the fan spinning). A plastic drinking straw would
be a better *tool* to use, and being much softer it is less
likely to damage the fan blades.

No hose necessary.

where do you get a short rubber hose from anyway? do you cut a real
one? do you have them lying around? why/howcome?! What do you
usually use them for? I have often heard people mention about these
rubber hoses..

Are rubber hoses really that rare in the UK? I suppose it
wouldn't have to be "rubber" but practically any hardware
store in the US has some, often sold by the foot so it'd be
under $1 for the short length needed, or anyone who's owned
a home for awhile probably has an old garden hose that's
burst or dry rotted that could be used if it weren't thrown
out at that point. I don't think a hose is really necessary
though, there aren't that many fans in a computer and even
if one can't put their finger on the PSU fan hub to stop it,
by process of elimination the rest can be stopped to leave
only the PSU fan as the culprit if it weren't one of the
others.

Often the noisey fans are sleeve bearing models and one can
take a different approach - don't try to find the one
failing, just lube all of them so they don't wear down the
bearing to the point of needing replaced or outright
failure. That'll also tend to make them even quieter than
before they were considered to be getting especially loud.

 

[kony]

Actually, the situation I mentioned was from the (very) noisy fan on a video
card. The noise occured during post, until Windows loaded the video card
drivers and they started controlling the fan.
It was a bit disconcerting at first, but it makes good sense for the default
fan speed to be its maximum - more cards die from overheating than from
overcooling. As a design consideration, starting off at max helps
overcome any startup stiction, allowing the use of a cheaper fan...

No fan with enough stiction to require this should ever be
used in a PC. Generally if a fan has trouble spinning up it
isn't stiction at all that causes it, the problem is getting
enough torque to overcome the first quarter rotation which
crosses a magnetic boundary.

 

[jameshanley39]

I don't consider my contributions to be so profound that they deserve
preservation for posterity.





Actually, the situation I mentioned was from the (very) noisy fan on a video
card.   The noise occured during post, until Windows loaded the video card
drivers and they started controlling the fan.
It was a bit disconcerting at first, but it makes good sense for the default
fan speed to be its maximum - more cards die from overheating than from
overcooling.   As a design consideration, starting off at max helps
overcome any startup stiction, allowing the use of a cheaper fan...-

Well since you like interspersing your comments within the post to
which you are replying, you should consider that if having a
discussion with somebody and they dare to intersperse, the thread can
become almost impossible to read in the archive, and thus their
contributions are lost too. Do you think that the words of all those
that discuss things with you are never worth archiving ?


Infact, if you think your posts are not worth archiving, would that
mean that you do not post anything you consider worth remembering?
Why do you bother?

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...


It is absolutely safe. and much smarter, to stick your finger on
the hub of the fan, to locate a problematic fan.

[to find] a noisy fan rather. For case fan or CPU fan, you could
unplug the fan's wires from its power source(motherboard or psu)

For PSU fan, its power source is inside the PSU. PSU fan wires are
plugged in there. (sometimes soldered in). Easy to hold the hub
of the fan and stop it. Safer than sticking a pencil in there.

No hose necessary.

where do you get a short rubber hose from anyway? do you cut a
real one? do you have them lying around? why/howcome?! What do
you usually use them for? I have often heard people mention about
these rubber hoses..

I keep a large supply, coiled onto reels, for beating uncooperative
suppliers about the head and shoulders. I just cut a suitable
length and use it as necessary.

 

[Strobe]

No fan with enough stiction to require this should ever be
used in a PC. Generally if a fan has trouble spinning up it
isn't stiction at all that causes it, the problem is getting
enough torque to overcome the first quarter rotation which
crosses a magnetic boundary.

Agreed. What if my original wording had read:
"allowing the use of a cheaper fan that'd still have the same effective life
as the better-made original one that the bean-counters said cost too much".
Or it could be that the original fan suddenly became unavailable and the only
substitute available in time was of lower quality...

It'd be nice if no compromises were ever needed in production - but I was
really praising 'defensive designing'.

 

[Strobe]

Well since you like interspersing your comments within the post to
which you are replying, you should consider that if having a
discussion with somebody and they dare to intersperse, the thread can
become almost impossible to read in the archive, and thus their
contributions are lost too. Do you think that the words of all those
that discuss things with you are never worth archiving ?

Only if their own posts (which also include my comments) are not archived.
Of course, if I were posting solid fact-filled articles of lasting interest
rather than making comments on ephemeral matters, I might reconsider.

Infact, if you think your posts are not worth archiving, would that
mean that you do not post anything you consider worth remembering?

Why do you bother?

Well, somebody has to give you something to fret about.

 

[Goff]

<4139e1a5-0383-4aea-b169-9660c992cd8c@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com

, (e-mail address removed) says...

It is absolutely safe. and much smarter, to stick your finger on the
hub of the fan, to locate a problematic fan.

[to find] a noisy fan rather. For case fan or CPU fan, you could
unplug the fan's wires from its power source(motherboard or psu)

For PSU fan, its power source is inside the PSU. PSU fan wires are
plugged in there. (sometimes soldered in). Easy to hold the hub of
the fan and stop it. Safer than sticking a pencil in there.

No hose necessary.

where do you get a short rubber hose from anyway? do you cut a real
one? do you have them lying around? why/howcome?! What do you
usually use them for? I have often heard people mention about these
rubber hoses..

You can get small diameter hose at any hardware store. We used them to
isolate problems in a car engine. Put one end in your ear and run the other end
near the offending "noisy" part. You'll isolate it immediately. No unplugging
wires, screwing with straws, or poking your finger around the hub.
Simple and SAFE.