Boot problem, copied Master

  • Thread starter Thread starter William B. Lurie
  • Start date Start date
William said:
Yes, Michael. I did just that. And of course, I started it up and
it ran 4 minutes and then gave me an unintelligible error message
and halted. For the record, on the Slave Drive, I have
G:\C_Drive.v2i, a logical file 16002.2 MB and also
I:\ no name, a logical file, 22152 MB
I execute Drive Image, Restore etcetera, first try
I get error message about destination being in use
(obviously it is not in use!!!), so I hit Ignore.
Error message says Can't copy data from ..file to destination,
Error E0BB0097. Volume xyzpdqblah cannot be locked.
Error 00000005, access denied, 0XE0BB0097.

So I aborted and will try moving the image over to the master drive
and try restoring from there. Any comments, Michael or POP??
(Grrrrrr).
Click to expand...
And now, two hours of moving partitions from one drive to another,
and reordering them, and finally 'restoring' the drive image which
I had put on the Master drive, to the Slave drive (using D-I's
software), I have a Slave drive which has, first, 7.8 MB of
"unallocated" with none in use, and then the G: partition which
seems to have all (?) of the software from my Master XP partition.
I have made it Active, and Primary. Nothing else on that drive is
Active OR Primary. The size of the data in that partition is
pretty close to the original size of C: .........

Well, I am sure I cannot boot to it. I tried changing the BIOS to
go to HDD1 instead of HDD0.....and it just hangs at the end of BIOS,
it sees no boot info on HDD1. Is it because of the unallocated 7.8 MB
in front of my useful partition? Do I have to try FIXMBR or some
such? I guess it needs boot info, but how does I does that?
POP and/or Michael.... HELP!!

Bill Lurie
 
William B. Lurie said:
Part of my restoring problem is that my DI-7 CD is supposed
to boot right to the PQRE and it definitely does not. So I
am unable to restore using the PQRE. The CD runs and gives the
DI-7 but I have no way to get to PQRE. Remember, I need to get there
COLD, not from Windows. I've bucked this problem to PowerQuest
Symantec but they have managed to avoid responding to it.
***********************************************************************
Click to expand...
"Snipped"

The points I outlined above were the first steps to be taken to boot COLD
into the PQRE.
You say that" The CD runs and gives the DI-7 but I have no way to get to
PQRE". If this happens you cannot be booting COLD from the CD with no
operating system loaded.
Here are some possibilities as to why you cannot boot from the PQ CD.
The CD drive must be bootable from the BIOS.
The CD must be in the drive before the re-start.
There is a message on the screen " Press any key to boot from the CD" It
only stays there for a few seconds and if missed the process halts.

Richard.
 
Richard said:
"Snipped"

The points I outlined above were the first steps to be taken to boot COLD
into the PQRE.
You say that" The CD runs and gives the DI-7 but I have no way to get to
PQRE". If this happens you cannot be booting COLD from the CD with no
operating system loaded.
Here are some possibilities as to why you cannot boot from the PQ CD.
The CD drive must be bootable from the BIOS.
The CD must be in the drive before the re-start.
There is a message on the screen " Press any key to boot from the CD" It
only stays there for a few seconds and if missed the process halts.

Richard.
Click to expand...
I should have finished the last sentence " If missed the process halts and
Windows will load normally"
Having now woken up properly this morning I am sure that this is the reason
why you have not been able to boot from cold into the PQRE.

If this does not solve your PQRE CD booting problem I apologise for stating
the obvious .

Richard.
 
Richard said:
"Snipped"

The points I outlined above were the first steps to be taken to boot COLD
into the PQRE.
You say that" The CD runs and gives the DI-7 but I have no way to get to
PQRE". If this happens you cannot be booting COLD from the CD with no
operating system loaded.
Here are some possibilities as to why you cannot boot from the PQ CD.
The CD drive must be bootable from the BIOS.
The CD must be in the drive before the re-start.
There is a message on the screen " Press any key to boot from the CD" It
only stays there for a few seconds and if missed the process halts.

Richard.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestions, Richard, but unfortunately they do
not directly apply. Yes, with the DI-7 CD IN the drive on bootup,
and with the BIOS reading even CDROM, CDROM, CDROM as the 3
boot targets, it still does not see that CD. Something is missing
from my CD, and I don't have to tell you that molasses in January
at the North Pole moves faster than getting answers from PowerQuest.
 
I'm sorry, Bill, but I don't understand the configuration on the slave
drive.

Have you tried this question on the Hardware board, they may better be able
to help and be able to tell you if it's even possible to do what you are
trying to do.

I've never done this with two separate hard drives on the same computer.
While I think it should be doable, there are some issues with regard to XP's
activation scheme so there may be technical issues here that I've never
faced and am really not experienced enough to help beyond what I've already
done.

In other words, I can tell you how to create a bootable image that if it
replaces what is on the boot partition of your primary hard drive will boot
the system but placing this image on a secondary hard drive on the same
system I've never done but I would think at least some folks on the hardware
board either would have done or know whether or not it can be done and
explain how.
 
Michael said:
I'm sorry, Bill, but I don't understand the configuration on the slave
drive.
Click to expand...
*********************************************************************8
Michael, what I put down was what Partition Magic 8 told me is on
the Slave Drive:

This is what it shows:
First, 7.8 MB of "unallocated" with none in use.
Then the G: partition which seems to have all (?) of the software from
my Master XP partition, which is just what I've been seeking to have.
I have made it Active, and Primary. Nothing else on that drive is
Active OR Primary. There are no other partitions. The size of the data
in that partition is pretty close to the original size of C: .........
*********************************************************************8
Have you tried this question on the Hardware board, they may better be able
to help and be able to tell you if it's even possible to do what you are
trying to do.
Click to expand...

Can you show me their newsgroup I.D.? I'll be happy to ask them
I've never done this with two separate hard drives on the same computer.
While I think it should be doable, there are some issues with regard to XP's
activation scheme so there may be technical issues here that I've never
faced and am really not experienced enough to help beyond what I've already
done.

In other words, I can tell you how to create a bootable image that if it
replaces what is on the boot partition of your primary hard drive will boot
the system but placing this image on a secondary hard drive on the same
system I've never done but I would think at least some folks on the hardware
board either would have done or know whether or not it can be done and
explain how.
Click to expand...
Michael, what you say you can tell me above is *exactly* what I want
to create. My Slave drive will, after you show me how to do that,
be running alone, as the 'Master or Only' drive on the system. You see
what is on that drive. It is what D-I recreated from the "image"....
I did what the experts told me. I used D-I to make the Drive Image,
then I used D-I to recreate a clone of the original. Right now it is
in Slave position because that's the only place it could be, but I'd
be happy to take this Master off, replace it with the clone......but
how do I get the clone to run? I.e., boot? POP, you say you've done this
same thing....how did you do it?

William B. Lurie
 
Hmm, not sure about the 7.8 MB, interestingly, XP creates a small partition
when it partitions a hard drive as well.

Be that as it may, the hard drive should be bootable if it is set as the
only drive on the system. It may need to be set to Master but beyond that,
I can't say. At one point, I thought you had this drive bootable when you
had just copied it just wouldn't boot if set as a slave drive with the other
drive set as master...maybe I misunderstood.

OK, I don't know what newsreader you are using but it should have a function
that displays the list of newsgroups on this server. One of those groups
should be microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware. You don't appear to be
coming through the web interface so I assume you are using a newsreader.

Don't get the idea I'm trying to abandon you. It's just that we've spent
quite a bit of time on this and I don't seem to have gotten you any closer
to accomplishing what you are trying to do so I felt the next step would be
to try on the hardware board.
 
Michael said:
Hmm, not sure about the 7.8 MB, interestingly, XP creates a small partition
when it partitions a hard drive as well.

Be that as it may, the hard drive should be bootable if it is set as the
only drive on the system.
Click to expand...

I'll try it again, but I think not. Of course, I jumper
it appropriately wherever I put it.
It may need to be set to Master but beyond that,
I can't say. At one point, I thought you had this drive bootable when you
had just copied it just wouldn't boot if set as a slave drive with the other
drive set as master...maybe I misunderstood.
Click to expand...

Yes, you must have, Michael. I had it booting anr runnable nicely
when jumpered as SLAVE and running as SLAVE, but that was quite a while
ago, and was the COPY, not the recreated-from-drive-image which you
convinced me was the way to do it.
OK, I don't know what newsreader you are using but it should have a function
that displays the list of newsgroups on this server. One of those groups
should be microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware. You don't appear to be
coming through the web interface so I assume you are using a newsreader.
Click to expand...
Right, I can do that.>


Don't get the idea I'm trying to abandon you. It's just that we've spent
quite a bit of time on this and I don't seem to have gotten you any closer
to accomplishing what you are trying to do so I felt the next step would be
to try on the hardware board.
Click to expand...
Au contraire, Michael, we are light years closer. A bit later I'll try
again to boot this 'image' thing as a Master again. I have the feeling
that the 7.8 MB empty space at its start needs to be replaced by some
boot stuff, maybe invisible, like the Master has.

I discovered something interesting. PQ has said that to restire from the
D-I, one boots from their CD, into their Recovery Environment. I have
said all along that my machine refuses to boot that way. Add this
interesting sidelight: it still won't boot there, from the CD I
have been using, which is a full backup copy of their furnished
installation CD. I just got the installation CD back from California
and it DOES boot from that. Which changed the picture a bit.

More later.

William B. Lurie
 
Yeah, that 7.8MB may be an issue, I'm not sure. However, the image should
have recreated everything on the partition including MBR. When you
originally partitioned the original drive, if you used XP to do that, it
might be the culprit in having created that small partition.

Second, did you create an image only of the XP partition? I would have
thought the small partition at the beginning of the drive would not have
been a part of the image. I use Partition Magic to create my hard drive
partitions and it doesn't create that small partition at the beginning of
the drive so I get back that usable space; at least I think I do.:-)
Somewhere there was an explanation about why XP creates that extra partition
but I've forgotten the reason. As to the rest, the image creates a more
accurate copy of the drive than a straight copy. I guess I'm confused as to
why were are doing this, is it because the secondary drive wouldn't boot or
is it because of some weird message you were getting when it did boot?
 
Michael said:
Yeah, that 7.8MB may be an issue, I'm not sure. However, the image should
have recreated everything on the partition including MBR. When you
originally partitioned the original drive, if you used XP to do that, it
might be the culprit in having created that small partition.

Second, did you create an image only of the XP partition? I would have
thought the small partition at the beginning of the drive would not have
been a part of the image. I use Partition Magic to create my hard drive
partitions and it doesn't create that small partition at the beginning of
the drive so I get back that usable space; at least I think I do.:-)
Somewhere there was an explanation about why XP creates that extra partition
but I've forgotten the reason. As to the rest, the image creates a more
accurate copy of the drive than a straight copy. I guess I'm confused as to
why were are doing this, is it because the secondary drive wouldn't boot or
is it because of some weird message you were getting when it did boot?
Click to expand...
It's because the 'copy' I made (not 'image') would boot fine when I
booted to it as the Slave drive, and not when I made it the Master.
You convinced me to abandon 'copies' and use the 'image'. Now I have
a lovely reconstructed single XP partition that won't boot anywhere.
No more weird messages. They went with the 'copies'. Yes, when I made
the Drive Image image of the XP partition, I did it only of that
partition. I have the feeling that what is needed is to make the new
Master bootable. I think I'd like to get rid of that little piece at
the beginning of the drive, which is where I imagine the MBR belongs.
I'm thinking of using RC and trying FIXMBR there.

Remember my goal, from which I have not deviated: I want a clone
of my Master drive (actually only the XP partition on it) which
I can boot and run all by itself just like this Master that I'm
exercising at this moment. "POP" said he's done it many times.
I hope to live long enough to say the same.
Bill L.
 
William said:
It's because the 'copy' I made (not 'image') would boot fine when I
booted to it as the Slave drive, and not when I made it the Master.
You convinced me to abandon 'copies' and use the 'image'. Now I have
a lovely reconstructed single XP partition that won't boot anywhere.
No more weird messages. They went with the 'copies'. Yes, when I made
the Drive Image image of the XP partition, I did it only of that
partition. I have the feeling that what is needed is to make the new
Master bootable. I think I'd like to get rid of that little piece at
the beginning of the drive, which is where I imagine the MBR belongs.
I'm thinking of using RC and trying FIXMBR there.

Remember my goal, from which I have not deviated: I want a clone
of my Master drive (actually only the XP partition on it) which
I can boot and run all by itself just like this Master that I'm
exercising at this moment. "POP" said he's done it many times.
I hope to live long enough to say the same.
Bill L.
Click to expand...
Let me add one note. I carefully made two new backup copies of the D-I 7
CD.... and tried to boot starting with an OFF machine, with CD in its
drive. Only the original CD will boot to their Recovery Environment.
It wouldn't surprise me if I started from scratch, using the Drive Image
o the XP partition, and this CD, if I could create a working duplicate
hard drive.
William B. Lurie
 
You see, I thought you had gotten to the point where the copy wouldn't boot.
Hmm, maybe it would boot but it would give you those messages...LOL

Well, I sure hope you get this one to boot, I'm not sure what's going on
with that 7.5MB, it shouldn't have come from DI and you only made an image
of a partition which is all you can make at one time so I don't think it was
from the image.

I just thought of this, my Uncle swaps two hard drives, this is Windows ME,
not XP, but in order to change which from which one he boots, he has to
change the jumper settings. These are removable drives but other than that
the situation is the same. You can't randomly choose, that requires a boot
loader. Hence in your configuration it must be one or the other and the way
he does it is by changing the jumper settings.

He used an image of his first drive on the second drive. Then he works from
the first drive, boots to that drive every day but when he saves, he saves
to both the boot drive and the secondary drive so the secondary drive is up
to date with the first. If the first drive dies or the setup crashes, he
changes the jumpers and boots from the second drive.

Hope that helps.
 
William B. Lurie said:
Let me add one note. I carefully made two new backup copies of the D-I 7
CD.... and tried to boot starting with an OFF machine, with CD in its
drive. Only the original CD will boot to their Recovery Environment.
It wouldn't surprise me if I started from scratch, using the Drive Image
o the XP partition, and this CD, if I could create a working duplicate
hard drive.
William B. Lurie
Click to expand...


William,

When I joined in on these exchanges earlier I was under the impression that
you were working with a genuine original DI 7 CD. Only this one can be used
to boot your machine into the PQRE. So don't waste time making copies of the
PQ CD as there is a form of copy protection and the copies you make are not
fully functional.

Now I would suggest, once you have checked that you can indeed boot into the
PQRE, that you decide on an overall backup strategy. Then test it out,
schedule the backup images to be created at the frequency you decide and
finally sit back and relax.

FWIW I have two hard drives on my computer and a third hard drive in a USB2
caddy. On daily basis DI 7 automatically creates images of the system and
data. These are stored in a single partition on one of the drives.
There is room for several day's images. Once the backup partition is full DI
7 overwrites images on a FIFO basis. The only manual operation I do is to
create additional images of the systems and data on the external USB drive.
I usually do this once a week. One of the joys is that one can continue
working while the images are being created. So apart from a slight drop in
speed the whole process is seamless.

I tested the backups by restoring the images to their original locations and
have also done a "Bare metal restore" when upgrading my hard drives. I have
not used the Copy Drives function. My thinking being that if I have a drive
failure I will have an image available from which to restore whereas trying
to copy from a broken drive could be difficult.

I am fully aware that there are many ways of skinning a cat and the strategy
I have chosen is probably not the best one but it works for me :-)

Richard
 
Richard said:
William,

When I joined in on these exchanges earlier I was under the impression that
you were working with a genuine original DI 7 CD. Only this one can be used
to boot your machine into the PQRE. So don't waste time making copies of the
PQ CD as there is a form of copy protection and the copies you make are not
fully functional.

Now I would suggest, once you have checked that you can indeed boot into the
PQRE, that you decide on an overall backup strategy. Then test it out,
schedule the backup images to be created at the frequency you decide and
finally sit back and relax.

FWIW I have two hard drives on my computer and a third hard drive in a USB2
caddy. On daily basis DI 7 automatically creates images of the system and
data. These are stored in a single partition on one of the drives.
There is room for several day's images. Once the backup partition is full DI
7 overwrites images on a FIFO basis. The only manual operation I do is to
create additional images of the systems and data on the external USB drive.
I usually do this once a week. One of the joys is that one can continue
working while the images are being created. So apart from a slight drop in
speed the whole process is seamless.

I tested the backups by restoring the images to their original locations and
have also done a "Bare metal restore" when upgrading my hard drives. I have
not used the Copy Drives function. My thinking being that if I have a drive
failure I will have an image available from which to restore whereas trying
to copy from a broken drive could be difficult.

I am fully aware that there are many ways of skinning a cat and the strategy
I have chosen is probably not the best one but it works for me :-)

Richard
Click to expand...
Richard, your modus operandi is almost exactly what I
wish I could get to, only I would be content to do it all
manually, and only on a once-a-month frequency.. .....

I may start over again, and make a D-I image of the Master XP
partition in a partition on CDs and see if I can use that
and the original PQ CD to do a "Bare Metal restore" to a
newly reformatted hard drive. That is the ultimate basic safety
net. After that, having the Drive Image(s) on another hard
drive would be easier to restore from and I will go that
route. But right now I've been working without PQRE and maybe,
now that I have a PQRE, I can recreate the Master successfully
and be able to boot to it, as a replacement Master, for the
first time.

Thanks for chiming in; your success story is pleasant music.
Bill L.
 
William B. Lurie said:
Richard, your modus operandi is almost exactly what I
wish I could get to, only I would be content to do it all
manually, and only on a once-a-month frequency.. .....

I may start over again, and make a D-I image of the Master XP
partition in a partition on CDs and see if I can use that
and the original PQ CD to do a "Bare Metal restore" to a
newly reformatted hard drive. That is the ultimate basic safety
net. After that, having the Drive Image(s) on another hard
drive would be easier to restore from and I will go that
route. But right now I've been working without PQRE and maybe,
now that I have a PQRE, I can recreate the Master successfully
and be able to boot to it, as a replacement Master, for the
first time.

Thanks for chiming in; your success story is pleasant music.
Bill L.
Click to expand...

Bill,
Just to round things off. I am sure you are now only a few thoughts and a
few clicks away from Backup Nirvana :-))
Breaking DI 7 has issued an update dated 1.03.04. I have only just
found and installed it. The version number is 2.03.402 and it " addresses
several outstanding issues". As far as I was concerned I had no outstanding
issues but I have installed the new version anyway.

Richard.
 
Richard said:
full DI



Bill,
Just to round things off. I am sure you are now only a few thoughts and a
few clicks away from Backup Nirvana :-))
Breaking DI 7 has issued an update dated 1.03.04. I have only just
found and installed it. The version number is 2.03.402 and it " addresses
several outstanding issues". As far as I was concerned I had no outstanding
issues but I have installed the new version anyway.

Richard.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Richard, I'll look for it. However, I'm thinking of another
suspenders-and-a-belt approach to my problem. I am going to do
a drive image backup onto CDs... it will take 8 CDs.....and
then reformat a hard drive and used PQRE to restore from the CD
backup onto the hard drive. If I can make that hard drive boot
(which I am highly doubtful about), THEN I will have a safe
backup/substitute/clone of my Master drive's XP system.

The alternative is to do the Drive Image to a partition on
the Master Drive, and then use that in Slave position as the
Backup Image from which to PQRE a cloned system onto the
newly formatted drive, which will have been placed in Master
position.

Bill
 
Thanks, Richard, I'll look for it. However, I'm thinking of another
suspenders-and-a-belt approach to my problem. I am going to do
a drive image backup onto CDs... it will take 8 CDs.....and
then reformat a hard drive and used PQRE to restore from the CD
backup onto the hard drive. If I can make that hard drive boot
(which I am highly doubtful about), THEN I will have a safe
backup/substitute/clone of my Master drive's XP system.

The alternative is to do the Drive Image to a partition on
the Master Drive, and then use that in Slave position as the
Backup Image from which to PQRE a cloned system onto the
newly formatted drive, which will have been placed in Master
position.

Bill
Click to expand...

Bill,

I would go for the second option and miss out the 8 CDs. In any case if the
wrong button gets pressed your original drive can go back in and you will
still have a stable system. Take care, after creating the image and
restoring it to the new drive using PQRE, not to reboot into Windows until
you have removed your old master drive that is in the slave position.

Richard.
 
To Michael and Pop and others who have been patiently
watching this saga for a week or so, I want to add a
more or less final note.

The procedure for making a clone of my Mster Drive has
been solved (not without a loose end or two). The personal
experiences of Richard (see the thread) led me to what works.
One of the loose ends is why it didn't work earlier.

Procedure:
Use Drive Image 7. Make an image (not a copy) of the Master drive
and put it in a partition on the same hard drive.
Remove that drive, rejumper it as Slave and mount it in Slave position.
Install formatted 'New Master' drive in Master position.
This drive must have an active partition to store the clone in, which
is at least as large as the original.
Put the PowerQuest Drive Image CD into the CD reader and turn
system on. (I omit details of in what order to do these). You may NOT
use a copy of the supplied CD......it took me many hours of false
starts to find out (with Richard's confirmation) that you must use the
original.
In boot-up, watch it, and reset the BIOS if need be, to make sure it
will boot from CD before hard drive.
It will see the PowerQuest CD and boot into their PowerQuest Recovery
Environment, after which you simply follow instructions, to restore the
Drive Image to a clone of the original.

Thank you, MVPs and friends, for your patience and kind assistance. I
hope that my experiences will help others over these same hurdles.

Bill Lurie
 
Let me top-post a short addendum:
Originally this thread was because I needed Recovery
Console to do FIXMBR and I needed to FIXMBR because
my MBR was giving Err2 and Err5 caused by malfunctions
of Drive Image 7. And I refused to fool with RC until I
had a clone to fall back on. Now that I have the clone,
I went back to my original sacred Master and dared to
boot to RC, and allowed it to FIXMBR........and now
even my Master boots clean, the error messages are gone.
In bootup, it still always gives me a choice of boot to
XP or boot to Recovery Console, and I can live with that.
So, thank you again, Michael. It's been a long road, but
I hope that others watching us try this and that, will
profit and maybe sidestep around some of the potholes.
Bill Lurie
 
I went back to my original sacred Master and dared to
boot to RC, and allowed it to FIXMBR........and now
even my Master boots clean, the error messages are gone.
Click to expand...

That's cool that you got that fixed. :)

By the way, as an offshoot of your ongoing saga -- I bought a new imaging
program (Image for Windows from terabyteunlimited). I have Drive Image 7 as
well. Worked fine with my CD/RW but does not work with the current DVD/R
drive. Reading your thread, got me off my duff to find a new program that
would work with the current configuration. Gave it a spin, results were
good and can put the clunkier ASR tool (XP Pro) onto the back burner once
again.

I thank you and my computer thanks you too.
 
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