Best Inkjet Printer for Direct CD and DVD Labeling?

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Jan Alter said:
For the past year I've been using an Epson R1800 to make at least a 100
printed DVDs and it's worked very nicely. The R1800 is the wide version of
the R800 (which will also print CDs). The comparitive difference in price
of the R200 to the R800 is substantial.

Does it use dye ink instead of the clogging DuraBrite, and if so, how
water-resistant is it?


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J. Clarke said:
There is a legal issue. I don't recall the details offhand but Epson
has
relevant intellectual property rights in the US that would require
that
Canon pay them a license fee that Canon chooses not to pay.

I believe it is actually Phillips that has the IP in the US. Epson
licenses it, Canon currently does not.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
 
Ed said:
Does it use dye ink instead of the clogging DuraBrite, and if so, how
water-resistant is it?

Yes, I am interested not just in good colors but in reliable-staying
ink I don't have to do things to after printing. Which is best for
this? Thanks.

Cori
 
Does anyone know whether the Epson RX700 uses different ink or printing
method than the Epson R220, which is most durable as far as such
qualities as waterproofness, and how they compare to Canon as far as
waterproofness and the like? Thanks.

Cori
 
Yes, I am interested not just in good colors but in reliable-staying
ink I don't have to do things to after printing. Which is best for
this? Thanks.

Cori

Again...that would be the Epson Chrome (pigment) inks present in the huge
4800 I posted about earlier, or the R2400. They will outlast (by a long
way) any dye-based inks.
-Mark²
 
Does anyone know whether the Epson RX700 uses different ink or printing
method than the Epson R220, which is most durable as far as such
qualities as waterproofness, and how they compare to Canon as far as
waterproofness and the like? Thanks.

The rx700 does use a diffrent model number of ink, and it uses a drop
size of 1.5pl, vs the r200/r220 which uses 3pl IIRC. I've not seen it
in action but it's your basic water based dye.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R300_R320.html

The premium papers for both Canon and Epson are microporous papers
which are reasonably water resistant. I know I can print on Canons
pr-101 paper and run it under the tap and not notice any bleeding. But
this is the paper, not the ink. The inks are totally water soluble.

The Epson r800/1800 on the other hand use pigment inks. These are more
resistant to water and light.
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
The r800 features no bells or wistles what so ever, it's a printer, no
pictbridge it's a printer.
 
zakezuke said:
The rx700 does use a diffrent model number of ink, and it uses a drop
size of 1.5pl, vs the r200/r220 which uses 3pl IIRC. I've not seen it
in action but it's your basic water based dye.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R300_R320.html

The premium papers for both Canon and Epson are microporous papers
which are reasonably water resistant. I know I can print on Canons
pr-101 paper and run it under the tap and not notice any bleeding. But
this is the paper, not the ink. The inks are totally water soluble.

The Epson r800/1800 on the other hand use pigment inks. These are more
resistant to water and light.
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
The r800 features no bells or wistles what so ever, it's a printer, no
pictbridge it's a printer.

Even though it is "just a printer" that would seem to be the way to go
for what I want to do. (No one has mentioned thermal bonding rather
than just printing with ink--presumably that's some highly
sophisticated professional process the cost of which is out of the
question?) Using water-based ink is definitely straying deep into the
territory of hidden costs.

Sure, with Lightscribe, the output looks comparatively crummy, takes 20
minutes per disk to produce, and the disks cost twice the amount of
inkjet-printable disks, but when you do it, it's done. With
water-based ink going onto a disk, when you don't know what brand of
disk may work best with what brand of printer and ink, then how long
are you taking experimenting with different brands, then taking the
chance that they'll smear, or how much time and money are you putting
into spraying fixative on each disk, making sure no dust gets stuck to
the fixative, not to mention no fixative running onto the other side of
the disk, and waiting for it to dry? Might a 5-minute disk not quickly
become a 20-minute disk that way? Not to mention, the water-based inks
used in the other printers cost more per cartridge than the inks used
in the Epson Stylus Photo 800, although that has 8 cartridges and the
others have 6.

I'm thinking of producing archival-quality images not only for myself,
family, and friends, but for placement in libraries and museums--where
it stands to reason they *will* get handled by somebody, sometime. It
looks as if this would also be a good option for printing high-quality
CD inserts which may also be handled (by people reading titles.)

Although the ink for an Epson Stylus Photo R800 costs less than for the
Stylus Photo RX500, of course I'd have to keep that for all the other
features. What are the opinions of people who have used the Epson
Stylus Photo R800, particularly for printing directly to disks? How
does the ink look and act, and how easy or hard is it to set up and
print a label, keeping in mind I'd be taking images mostly from photo
CDs or capturing them from a digital source such as a frame from a
movie, or possibly scans? Thanks.

Cori
 
The R800/R1800 use Ultrachrome pigment inks. I've had no trouble using our
R1800 for a year now with the Ultrachrome inks, (knocking soundly on the
plastic as I write).
 
Even though it is "just a printer" that would seem to be the way to go
for what I want to do. (No one has mentioned thermal bonding rather
than just printing with ink--presumably that's some highly
sophisticated professional process the cost of which is out of the
question?) Using water-based ink is definitely straying deep into the
territory of hidden costs.
Sure, with Lightscribe, the output looks comparatively crummy, takes 20
minutes per disk to produce, and the disks cost twice the amount of
inkjet-printable disks, but when you do it, it's done.

Or rather variable costs. The area of given CD is about 1/3 the area
of a sheet of paper. Yields on cartridges are typicaly given in terms
of 5%, A given 13ml tank for an r800 @ 5% yield is 400p. CDs,
assuming this number is accurate, assuming 5% yield and 1/3 the area
this would be 1200pieces. Assuming 25% yield this would be 240pieces,
assuming 50% yield this would be 120pieces, and assuming 100% yield
this would be 60pieces. Assuming 13.50/tank * 7 tanks (IIRC it only
uses one black at a given time) this is $94.5.

5%=7.8c/per 25%=39c/per 50%=$1.30/per 100%=$1.58/per

Do keep in mind that the cleaning cycles on the epson are quite
massive.

There is lightscribe, plus on the grey market there is "labelflash".
Mail ordering a drive overseas isn't an issue, but getting the media
would be. The last time I checked it was double that lightscribe.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/14/labelflash_vs_lightscribe_dvd/

There isn't a consumer level thermal solution beyond monochrome
ribbons, with your choice of color. There are wax transfer CD printers
but I believe these start in the $4000 range. I'm sure no one brought
these up as the title of your post was "best inkjet".
Sure, with Lightscribe, the output looks comparatively crummy, takes 20
minutes per disk to produce, and the disks cost twice the amount of
inkjet-printable disks, but when you do it, it's done. With
water-based ink going onto a disk, when you don't know what brand of
disk may work best with what brand of printer and ink, then how long
are you taking experimenting with different brands, then taking the
chance that they'll smear, or how much time and money are you putting
into spraying fixative on each disk, making sure no dust gets stuck to
the fixative, not to mention no fixative running onto the other side of
the disk, and waiting for it to dry? Might a 5-minute disk not quickly
become a 20-minute disk that way?

I personaly have not found a spray that will work well on DVDs. Water
based sprays i've tried orange peal too easily, and spar urethane
reduces data to ashes. Epsons offer a "gloss optimizer" on the r800
but it's limited to the printed area. I've somewhat considered looking
into adapting my old r200 to use the gloss optimizer in all 6 tanks and
applying it to discs, i.e. print on my canon, then print in clear on
the epson.

But... though lightscribe offers fixed costs, there is no way it can
compair to painting discs. Lightscribe is limited to one disc per
drive at 30min a pop in high quality mode. Painting discs is limited
to your desk space which can be optimized by putting your discs in
trays. The offical drytime of the r800 for paper is 24hrs.
I'm thinking of producing archival-quality images not only for myself,
family, and friends, but for placement in libraries and museums--where
it stands to reason they *will* get handled by somebody, sometime. It
looks as if this would also be a good option for printing high-quality
CD inserts which may also be handled (by people reading titles.)

A sprayed dye based inkjet print would do pretty well too... but given
the choice I'd lean tward pigments. Technicaly speaking I believe the
durabright series of epson inks outlasts the ultrachrome of the r800 in
terms of lightfastness, i.e. their cheaper series of printers. But...
the ultrachrome should it self outlast the archive life of a quality
home burnt CD/DVD.

Canon will release their own pigment printer come September, the Pixma
pro 9500. Again the american version will have cd-printing disabled
and enabling it is not documented. It's a wide model sporting 10 ink
tanks.

Although the ink for an Epson Stylus Photo R800 costs less than for the
Stylus Photo RX500, of course I'd have to keep that for all the other
features. What are the opinions of people who have used the Epson
Stylus Photo R800, particularly for printing directly to disks? How
does the ink look and act, and how easy or hard is it to set up and
print a label, keeping in mind I'd be taking images mostly from photo
CDs or capturing them from a digital source such as a frame from a
movie, or possibly scans?

Label printing I can speak of to some degree from my r200 experence...
the r800 isn't going to be any different on the software level. The
application included is rather limited, but it's good enough to take
your image edited in another application and printing it.

Still, consider one of these solutions
http://www.acoustica.com/cd-label-maker/
http://www.magicmouse.com/h_discus_detail.html
http://ww2.nero.com/enu/Nero_6_Ultra_Edition_InfoPage.html
http://www.surething.com/ST/

I use acoustica my self. It supports edge printed tracks.
 
zakezuke wrote:



Even though it is "just a printer" that would seem to be the way to go
for what I want to do. (No one has mentioned thermal bonding rather
than just printing with ink--presumably that's some highly
sophisticated professional process the cost of which is out of the
question?) Using water-based ink is definitely straying deep into the
territory of hidden costs.

Sure, with Lightscribe, the output looks comparatively crummy, takes 20
minutes per disk to produce, and the disks cost twice the amount of
inkjet-printable disks, but when you do it, it's done. With
water-based ink going onto a disk, when you don't know what brand of
disk may work best with what brand of printer and ink,

the brand of printer and ink should be the same for there is only one
brand of ink for each printer
 
John said:
An Epson rep at MacWorld said he thought the R 300 did a nicer job on
disks than the 800, due to the ink being dye based (vs. pigment for the
800.)

F-U set

The R 300s must be being phased out as a price isn't mentioned on the
Epson site, and there are none for sale on Macmall or Newegg and only
one on Amazon. Lots of R 220s and R 340s around. How do those compare
in ink durability and drying time to an R 800? Do either one come with
a gloss optimizer or way to install one? I don't like the idea of a
24-hour drying time, either! Thanks.

Cori
 
Couple more questions on Epson R 200 and R 800:

--Presumably both have the same capacity as more versatile machines to
enlarge or reduce the size of a copied image? (If I wanted to copy
something directly, like say for a CD cover, rather than using a
digital image?)

--Do either of them have the capacity to print on odd-sized items
besides CDs and DVDs? The CD/DVD printing feature requires a tray. I
have several hundred VHS tapes here waiting to be labeled. My options
are handwriting, which I absolutely refuse to do--way too
sloppy--throwing away all the original labels and buying labels made in
sheets to go through a printer--too expensive and wasteful--or putting
the original labels into an IBM Selectric II (over 30 years old) and
typing them with a flaky carbon ribbon. If one of these printers had a
way to put the original VHS labels in, compose a label on the computer,
and then print directly on the original label, it would be a MAJOR
selling point for me! But I suppose I'm dreaming.

Cori
 
Couple more questions on Epson R 200 and R 800:
--Presumably both have the same capacity as more versatile machines to
enlarge or reduce the size of a copied image? (If I wanted to copy
something directly, like say for a CD cover, rather than using a
digital image?)

Do keep in mind I said before an offical drytime of 24hrs. You can
handle prints much sooner, or better yet shove them in a case or put
them in a drive. Also the gloss optimizer is a feature unique to the
r800/1800. It's because pigments tend to bronze, as in look like
powder on paper, less like a photograph. It's rather like paint, it's
tacky in hours but you want to wait for it to fully cure before
exposing what you painted to water or use.

The speed at which an dye based printer dries is going to be similar,
it's the quick dry microporous papers that really do the trick as far
as handling, which isn't nessicarly an option for pigment ink. Also,
since you are talking archiveablity they tend to not be the best for
that application.

But both the r2x0/r8x0 are printers, which will print any image you
throw at them. To copy a label, you'd need a scanner. Canon's
Japanese AIOs include software to do this on the fly, but the software
is Japanese only.
--Do either of them have the capacity to print on odd-sized items
besides CDs and DVDs? The CD/DVD printing feature requires a tray. I
have several hundred VHS tapes here waiting to be labeled.

Odd sizes are not a problem, though boarderless printing support is
often limited to the sizes specified in the driver. You can overprint,
as in print 8.5 x 11 and shove in something smaller. Canon has the
benifit of officaly printing on something as small as a credit card.
i'm not sure on Epson, but regardless for VHS labels you'd be best off
either buying preformed vhs labels, buying sticky paper and a paper
trimmer, or using some light contact cement and regular paper.
Typcialy speaking I believe VHS labeling is done with plastic cases
with an inlay. But if you are talking about taking the offical label
that came with your blank vhs and shoving it through the printer, this
actually shouldn't be an issue as all printers that i'm aware of can
print on 4x6 paper.

http://www.worldlabel.com/Pages/wl-ol1125.htm
 
--Do either of them have the capacity to print on odd-sized items
besides CDs and DVDs? The CD/DVD printing feature requires a tray. I
have several hundred VHS tapes here waiting to be labeled. My options
are handwriting, which I absolutely refuse to do--way too
sloppy--throwing away all the original labels and buying labels made in
sheets to go through a printer--too expensive and wasteful--or putting
the original labels into an IBM Selectric II (over 30 years old) and
typing them with a flaky carbon ribbon. If one of these printers had a
way to put the original VHS labels in, compose a label on the computer,
and then print directly on the original label, it would be a MAJOR
selling point for me! But I suppose I'm dreaming.

By "original label" do you mean the label that came on the VHS tape
shell itself? If so, how did you get it off the shell? Are you sure it
will accept inkjet ink?
And there's a relatively easy way to do what you want: scan the
original label, put it over the background in something like
Publisher, then make and print the label as you wish. Of course,
you'll need a way to position the label so that it's printed right.
That's why the labels you say are wasteful and expensive are there:
the ease of use is great, the paper itself is designed for inkjet
use,, you don't have to overwrite the original label, and the adhesive
works better than that on the original (which obviously has to come
off to be printed on).
Or did I miss something?
 
Bill said:
By "original label" do you mean the label that came on the VHS tape
shell itself? If so, how did you get it off the shell?

Most blank VHS tapes for home use come with peel and stick labels not
already on the shell. Those that do come with labels on the shell come
with others that can be pasted on over or in place of them.
Are you sure it
will accept inkjet ink?

No idea.
That's why the labels you say are wasteful and expensive are there:
the ease of use is great, the paper itself is designed for inkjet
use,, you don't have to overwrite the original label, and the adhesive
works better than that on the original (which obviously has to come
off to be printed on).

Well, it beats cutting something out with scissors.
Or did I miss something?

I'm not such a purist about original labels for using what came with
the box as I am for not having to buy bales of blank labels--might be
the way to go, though. Sticking with the original label I'd have to
ask not only would the printer ink be compatible, but could I be sure
of positioning it to print right each time--by which time I could just
run it through the typewriter. And it's one of the few uses I have for
this lifetime supply of typewriter ribbon I've got.

Cori
 
zakezuke said:
The rx700 does use a diffrent model number of ink, and it uses a drop
size of 1.5pl, vs the r200/r220 which uses 3pl IIRC. I've not seen it
in action but it's your basic water based dye.

So is this saying I'd be less well off with the RX700 than with an R
200 or R 220?
The Epson r800/1800 on the other hand use pigment inks. These are more
resistant to water and light.

Still having a hard time deciding which is best. The pigment inks
sound a bit more archival than the others. Do the others have other
advantages such as being significantly better-looking, less expensive
ink, easier use, or anything? Thanks.

Cori
 
zakezuke said:
So is this saying I'd be less well off with the RX700 than with an R
200 or R 220?

I'm saying the rx700 uses smaller drops. It could mean higher
resolution, or improved defination, but as i've not met the printer
personaly I can't say it's an improvement. I can say it costs more and
has a printhead which by all rights costs more to employ. The ink is
also different, but that's all I know. I know so little about it I
have to reference PCmag, which was as always useless.
Still having a hard time deciding which is best. The pigment inks
sound a bit more archival than the others. Do the others have other
advantages such as being significantly better-looking, less expensive
ink, easier use, or anything? Thanks.

Well, you can pickup the r200 referb for $59, it's less than the ink,
so it's no great loss.
Dyes look better on photo paper, and probally better on TDK costco
media.

Ease of use doesn't really enter into the picture. Near as i'm aware
the Epson series uses the same software all around for CDs, same with
canon. The software I listed prior supports the Epson perfectly well,
and with the exception of SureThing the canon as well. Surething has
unoffical canon support which is, to be fair, tweeky.

Though it would seem the Canon ink costs a pretty penny, only having to
refill 4 tanks out of 5 to do cd printing helps. Canon does a great
job with only 4 colors. I'm just getting into my ip5200 my self and I
have to say so far i'm really impressed.

The r800 is @ $200 for a referb edition, which should carry the year
warranty the last time I asked epson, is really a good deal. Normally
the printer is $350/$400. The big benifit is the fact prints look
good, really good, on regular matte paper, and is archival on matte
paper. The offical Epson matte paper heavyweight is only $10 for 50
sheets. Wilhelm-research says the r300 is 30 years under glass, vs
150 years under glass on the r800. While you "can" get kirkland photo paper for $20ish bucks for 120 sheets (IIRC), it's hardly an archival paper.

But this is the time you should ask for a sample from Epson ((800)
463-7766). Do evaluate the the r2x0/3x0 vs the rx700 vs the r800.
Specifications and infomation is one thing but you really should see
pigments vs dye for your self to make the final choice.
You might want to look at these images as well. They contrast the r800
with a HP photosmart 8450 and the canon ip8500, a super duper model
which can only be had on closeout presently.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/12/29/are_high/page6.html
 
Bill Funk wrote:




Most blank VHS tapes for home use come with peel and stick labels not
already on the shell. Those that do come with labels on the shell come
with others that can be pasted on over or in place of them.

Measure those labels, which vary in size from brand to brand of VCR
tape. When I say measure, I'm not talking about the label itself, but
the backing paper that holds the label. Then go to each manufacturer's
web site and check the minimum size paper that the printer will handle.
Most have a minimum size of three inches in the smaller dimension, and
five inches in the larger. The length is not going to be a problem, but
the width will be.
Allen
 
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