Attaching 80mm fan to original Athlon 2500 HSF

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harry Muscle
  • Start date Start date
Also, when people say to put on a very very thin layer of thermal compound,
how thin are we talking. I usually spread this stuff with the edge of an
exacto knife. Should I be able to see the core through this stuff or should
it be just enough to make the core invisible?
Click to expand...
First, it's better to have too much than not enough. With a HS that's not
real smooth, I also put a layer of grease on it to fill the groves. The
main thing is to do away with air pockets.
 
Wes said:
First, it's better to have too much than not enough.
Click to expand...

But it's much better to have the correct amount - which is to say the
absolute minimum sufficient to fill all the gaps, but not produce an
actual "layer" of grease between the two surfaces. There should be
direct surface-to-surface contact wherever possible, with grease filling
the remaining voids.
 
Mike Smith said:
But it's much better to have the correct amount - which is to say the
absolute minimum sufficient to fill all the gaps, but not produce an
actual "layer" of grease between the two surfaces. There should be
direct surface-to-surface contact wherever possible, with grease filling
the remaining voids.
Click to expand...

So does that mean I want to be able to see the die when applying Ceramique
or do I a layer just thin enough to turn it all white?

Thanks,
Harry
 
On my system (A7N8X deluxe ver 1.04 + Athlon 2400+), there's 9°C difference
between "W83L785T-S" and "W83L785T-S Diode" transducers.
Anybody can explain what's the physical difference and which transducer I
should use ?

TIA
 
Harry Muscle said:
thermal the edge of
an this stuff or
should

So does that mean I want to be able to see the die when applying Ceramique
or do I a layer just thin enough to turn it all white?

Thanks,
Harry
Click to expand...
A thin layer to cover the die is ok. The pressure from the
mounting clip should force any excess over the edges.
 
The best thing that you can do is to make sure that you have good
thermal contact between the chip and the heatsink. This will have much
more of an impact then a bigger cooling fan. If you are using a
heatsink that came with a gummy pad on it, scrape that off and replace
it with any good thermal grease or heat sink compound.

arnie
 
So does that mean I want to be able to see the die when applying Ceramique
or do I a layer just thin enough to turn it all white?

Thanks,
Harry
Click to expand...

Why not go to Artic Silver web page and read their directions, they
don't spread the Ceramique on the CPU die like they show with their AS
pastes.

Ed
 
But it's much better to have the correct amount - which is to say the
Click to expand...

Well sure it is. But it's still better to have too much than not
enough.:-)
A little extra will get pushed out, but there won't be long term problems. Not
enough will burn up your cpu.
 
Well sure it is. But it's still better to have too much than not
enough.:-)
A little extra will get pushed out, but there won't be long term problems. Not
enough will burn up your cpu.
Click to expand...

Well that didn't work for me, when I overclocked my T-Bird some years
ago it would crash, so on my 3rd try of doing the paste I put it on so
thin I could almost see through it, it didn't crash anymore, been doing
it that way since, no problems.

But hey what ever works for you!
Cheers,
Ed
 
So does that mean I want to be able to see the die when applying Ceramique
or do I a layer just thin enough to turn it all white?
Click to expand...
If you're in doubt, it's better to have more than not enough. A little extra
won't matter that much, if any at all. Not enough and you can cause damage
to the cpu. And even if you use too much to start with, over a short period
of time the excess will get pushed out. How much you need depends on how
smooth then HS contact surface is and how flat it sits on the cpu. I'm
talking about regular thermal paste. I've never used the fancy crap, but
if it's that critical, I wouldn't want to use it anyway. My cpu is running
30C right now and maxes out about 40C.
 
So does that mean I want to be able to see the die when applying Ceramique
or do I a layer just thin enough to turn it all white?
Click to expand...
About the thickness of a piece of paper is more than plenty, if that
helps.
 
Wes Newell said:
About the thickness of a piece of paper is more than plenty, if that
helps.
Click to expand...

Which reminds me of a method I thought of that I want to try next time:

Get a hard-plastic or metal straight edge and put some paper-thin tape
from one side to the other, over the edge. (Wrap it over the edge.)
Do it again with a gap between the two a bit bigger than the CPU.
Then use that to spread the goop onto the heat sink bottom.


I've also wondered if it would be a good idea to also spread the goop
on the CPU and then wipe as much off it as possible with a plain
straight edge -- just to make sure that all pits are filled. (I've
noticed when gluing things with the glue-one-side-only method and then
separating them, that there will sometimes be dry spots, but of course
those were courser surfaces.)

BTW:

T = Q * z / ( k * A ), where (example)
T = temperature drop across goop = 20 deg_C [See note 2]
Q = power flowing through goop = 60 watts [some go higher]
z = thickness of goop = 0.0001 m [See note 3]
A = area of goop = (0.010 m)^2 [barton ?]
k = Thermal Conductivity of goop = 3.0 W/(m*degC) [See note 1]

Note 1: IIRC, 3.0 is about as good as it gets. Good quality plain old
"white stuff" is about 0.4.

Note 2: This means that the chip is at least 20 deg_C hotter than
ambient with a perfect heat sink.

Note 3: 500 sheets of typical 20 lb paper is about 50mm thick so one
sheet is about 0.1 mm (about 0.004 inch).

So "more than plenty" is probably right. Use thin paper.
 
Wes Newell said:
About the thickness of a piece of paper is more than plenty, if that
helps.
Click to expand...

Which reminds me of a method I thought of that I want to try next time:

Get a hard-plastic or metal straight edge and put some paper-thin tape
from one side to the other, over the edge. (Wrap it over the edge.)
Do it again with a gap between the two a bit bigger than the CPU.
Then use that to spread the goop onto the heat sink bottom.


I've also wondered if it would be a good idea to also spread the goop
on the CPU and then wipe as much off it as possible with a plain
straight edge -- just to make sure that all pits are filled. (I've
noticed when gluing things with the glue-one-side-only method and then
separating them, that there will sometimes be dry spots, but of course
those were courser surfaces.)

BTW:

T = Q * z / ( k * A ), where (example)
T = temperature drop across goop = 20 deg_C [See note 2]
Q = power flowing through goop = 60 watts [some go higher]
z = thickness of goop = 0.0001 m [See note 3]
A = area of goop = (0.010 m)^2 [barton ?]
k = Thermal Conductivity of goop = 3.0 W/(m*degC) [See note 1]

Note 1: IIRC, 3.0 is about as good as it gets. Good quality plain old
"white stuff" is about 0.4.

Note 2: This means that the chip is at least 20 deg_C hotter than
ambient with a perfect heat sink.

Note 3: 500 sheets of typical 20 lb paper is about 50mm thick so one
sheet is about 0.1 mm (about 0.004 inch).

So "more than plenty" is probably right. Use thin paper.
Click to expand...

And now how I really do it. I put a drop on the HS, rub it around with my
finger, then put a dab in the middle of the core and spread it around a
bit with my finger, then clean my finger and mount the cooler. Been
mounting them this way forever. If I remove the cooler for some reason, I
don't touch the core, just respread what's on the HS bottom back to the
core area, and add some if needed. Never a problem.:-)
 
Wes Newell said:
Wes Newell said:
About the thickness of a piece of paper is more than plenty, if that
helps.
Click to expand...

Which reminds me of a method I thought of that I want to try next time:

Get a hard-plastic or metal straight edge and put some paper-thin tape
from one side to the other, over the edge. (Wrap it over the edge.)
Do it again with a gap between the two a bit bigger than the CPU.
Then use that to spread the goop onto the heat sink bottom.


I've also wondered if it would be a good idea to also spread the goop
on the CPU and then wipe as much off it as possible with a plain
straight edge -- just to make sure that all pits are filled. (I've
noticed when gluing things with the glue-one-side-only method and then
separating them, that there will sometimes be dry spots, but of course
those were courser surfaces.)

BTW:

T = Q * z / ( k * A ), where (example)
T = temperature drop across goop = 20 deg_C [See note 2]
Q = power flowing through goop = 60 watts [some go higher]
z = thickness of goop = 0.0001 m [See note 3]
A = area of goop = (0.010 m)^2 [barton ?]
k = Thermal Conductivity of goop = 3.0 W/(m*degC) [See note 1]

Note 1: IIRC, 3.0 is about as good as it gets. Good quality plain old
"white stuff" is about 0.4.

Note 2: This means that the chip is at least 20 deg_C hotter than
ambient with a perfect heat sink.

Note 3: 500 sheets of typical 20 lb paper is about 50mm thick so one
sheet is about 0.1 mm (about 0.004 inch).

So "more than plenty" is probably right. Use thin paper.
Click to expand...

And now how I really do it. I put a drop on the HS, rub it around with my
finger, then put a dab in the middle of the core and spread it around a
bit with my finger, then clean my finger and mount the cooler. Been
mounting them this way forever. If I remove the cooler for some reason, I
don't touch the core, just respread what's on the HS bottom back to the
core area, and add some if needed. Never a problem.:-)
Click to expand...

With your FINGER? Without wrapping it in glad wrap or anything? The AS
people would have a fit :)

Just redid my V7+ for fun (and cleaned out all the dust, thin fins seem to
collect it very quickly) and dropped K7burn temps from 78 to 63 celsius
(that's core, socket only seems to have dropped a couple of degrees to ~39
load). Not too bad, though I think it was mostly the dust causing problems.
I also applied more goop this time (as in just enough to not be able to read
the die writing, not just a ultra-thin layer with a razorblade as last
time), which may have something to do with it.

I also noticed when cleaning that somehow the markings on the die (AGOIA etc
etc) have been copied onto the heatsink. I've got no idea how, but it's very
clear and easy to read. The text on die does not seem to have faded or
anything either, so I've got no idea where it came from.
 
Harry said:
So does that mean I want to be able to see the die when applying Ceramique
or do I a layer just thin enough to turn it all white?
Click to expand...

Well, that will depend on how flat the surfaces are. But this is what
you should do:

- spread thinly on *both* surfaces (die/heatplate and HSF).

- use a straightedge (razor blade, X-Acto knife) to gently scrape off
the excess from both surfaces.

- press surfaces together.
 
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