ASROCK versus ASUS

[Paul Hopwood]

<SNIP>
" I am told that Asrock is a cheaper range "

I have to agree with that. In a number of years of building The Asrock is
the only boards I Have ever had a failure on (and I have used some crap).
Not a catastrophic failure I may add, rear usb ports died. However I bought
it thinking it was a quality item. I forget the model, was one of these
maplin bundles that at the time seemed like a great deal.

Might be a common fault? The one I dealt with had exactly the same
fault and I've noticed a couple sold on eBay in the last few weeks
with the same problem.

--

 

[Paul Hopwood]

When installing however, I discovered a lot of "anomalies". Some examples:
- the board has 2 SATA connectors, but drivers have to be loaded from
diskettes at initial setup in order to recognize SATA drives;

Normal. No current OSes have native SATA support so you need to
provide drivers during setup.

- when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board USB
connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with leds
always on;

Again, normal. Any port which supports HID devices or has wake
support will require power even while the machine is supposedly
switched off. Illumination of the LED is a function of the card
reader, not the motherboard.

- the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);

Possible you had a faulty board but that alone is inconclusive.

- the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is mostly at
72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.

Monitored how? If in the BIOS it might indicate a faulty board but if
you were using monitoring s/w it's more likely the software was at
fault.

--

 

[~misfit~]

I have an Intel offering from the same period. It was a prize for
my first version of floating point for the 8080, submitted to the
user group.

That sounds cool.

Nowadays I spend no more than $10 US for an LCD
display calendar/stop watch combo, which lasts about 5 years.

Yep, I used to do the same thing, invariably Casio, and they'd last and run
perfectly until the plastic strap broke (oxidised). Then it was about the
same price to get a new watch as it was to get a new strap.

However, I then went into business for myself, a consultancy business, and a
nice watch just seemed to make the difference youknow? When you're charging
someone $1,000 (NZ) a day they pay up better if you look good. My Pulsar is
a nice, chunky stainless steel watch with gold trim. Analogue but also with
a digital display at the bottom so I have calendar and alarm functions etc.
The business is long gone (due to injury) but the watch endures.

 

[~misfit~]

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is
to know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms
of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.

 

[~misfit~]

Maybe the diverting is done based on the better versus worse
performing units? In other words they are all to spec but the very
best go one way and the poorer one go another way?

I don't think so (Mine is going strong, accurate to within 15 seconds a
year, after 13 years and three battery changes). I think it's more like the
diverting is done according to demand.

 

[Rob Morley]

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.

It would only be "ad hominem" if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from what
"ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and experience are
indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore questionable.

 

[~misfit~]

It would only be "ad hominem"

Thanks for the correction, my mistake. Plus I don't have a spell-checker
installed.

if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from
what "ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and
experience are indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore
questionable.

He was still talking dowm to him and attempting to ridicule him. If "his
knowledge and experience are indeed lacking" then surely we should be
educating him, not treating him like an idiot?

 

[ElJerid]

It would only be "ad hominem" if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from what
"ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and experience are
indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore questionable.

Maybe my experience is lacking, and maybe my judgement is questionable. I
appreciate the "philosophical" responses of some previous posts. I must say
however that I tried out all the solutions that were presented by all the
"experts" here and that none gave any results.
I can agree with many arguments like about faulty OS, power leds on 4-in-1
readers or bad software to read cpu temps. But why do I only encounter those
problems with only one motherboard (with most recent bios)? Why do many
other users encounter exactly the same problems?
Why does a new motherboard crashes after a new clean install, while
replacement of just the motherboard results in a perfectly working system?
What should an "expert" have done (that I did not) to solve the problem ???

 

[JAD]

browse grumpers posts....diplomacy is not his strong point.

 

[sooky grumper]

He was still talking dowm to him and attempting to ridicule him. If "his
knowledge and experience are indeed lacking" then surely we should be
educating him, not treating him like an idiot?

I did. I let him know about the errors in his knowledge, and what the
correct 'answers' were to points he raised. It seems that you're looking
for an argument. I can't help it if you have such low self esteem that
you read things into posts like 'talking down' and 'ridicule'. Those
things were not there.

 

[Fishman]

Maybe my experience is lacking, and maybe my judgement is questionable. I
appreciate the "philosophical" responses of some previous posts. I must say
however that I tried out all the solutions that were presented by all the
"experts" here and that none gave any results.
I can agree with many arguments like about faulty OS, power leds on 4-in-1
readers or bad software to read cpu temps. But why do I only encounter those
problems with only one motherboard (with most recent bios)? Why do many
other users encounter exactly the same problems?
Why does a new motherboard crashes after a new clean install, while
replacement of just the motherboard results in a perfectly working system?
What should an "expert" have done (that I did not) to solve the problem

???

Maybe, just maybe you had an iffy board - shit sometimes happens, accept it.

The point is though that you must not pass judgement on ASRock boards based
on your sample size of just one board.
I have built in excess of 70 systems using boards by ASRock and as I said in
a previous post, all have behaved perfectly.

In relation to your experience of XP not installing and Win2K crashing after
install, I would comment as follows:
If XP doesn't install there is something wrong and this needs to be fixed.
Installing another operating system won't fix the problem - as you found out
later when Win2K kept crashing.

In fact XP is showing it's superiority in that it didn't install on an iffy
platform where as Win2K did.
Experience would have told you to fix the problem that XP was complaining
about and not install Win2K in an attempt to fix the problem.

My guess is that your ASRock board was not compatible with the memory you
used whilst your replacement board was.
Did you try a memtest programme from a floppy disc?
Do you use cheap n' cheerful memory or decent stuff like Crucial?

When you come across a problem and eventually solve it you learn something
and your experience increases.
What you seemed to learn and want to pass on is "Don't buy ASRock boards
because I couldn't get one to work" - hardly appropriate is it?

 

[kony]

That's what I thought first, so I returned the Win XP CD to the dealer where
it was tested and appeared to install without problems. So I took it back
home and tried an install on 2 othersPC's without problems.

Seldom is it the cd... the most common problem when even the OS
installation won't finish, is incorrect BIOS settings or memory errors.

It is a very, very good idea to always test the memory for several hours
with http://www.memtest86.com (memtest86)... Not only when you encounter
problems, but before every installing the OS to begin with. Some systems
only have a few errors, an install might finish but then corrupt files
will confound troubleshooting until the entire system is reinstalled after
memory is corrected.

Right, but not at the point that the leds on a card reader remain on when
power is down.

Many if not most modern boards have a hard-wired 5VSB circuit that can be
active when the machine is "off", keeping any number of USB/PS2 devices
powered. Typically that's controlled with one or more jumpers, which
should be detailed in the manual if their function isn't silkscreened onto
the board itself.

Also just after a clean install, and without any application installed or
running ???

The board could be bad or windows' files corrupt, or overheating, bad
power supply, etc, etc. Simply because a memory module appears to run
fine in one system, it's no guarantee that it'll run fine in another.
Some chipsets are picker, board designs not as good, or bios defaults (or
user changes to bios settings) can make a large difference. Sometimes
there's even major bios bugs in the lower-cost boards, making it very
important to update the bios for at least the first few bios releases.

As well from Sandra as from Aida 32

Do no rely on such 3rd party programs for temp and voltage... not on that
board or any board. Use the manufacturer's provided hardware monitor
program or the bios health monitor (or however it's worded) screen.

It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused voltage
so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.

Don't believe. I think it's an incompatibility between OS and the P4VT8, or
the P4VT8 is defective !

I doubt it's an OS incompatiblity. Perhaps it is defective, but it's
quite a jump to conclude that without quite a bit of testing various
things first. Temp, voltage, fans, memory, etc.

 

[ElJerid]

Maybe, just maybe you had an iffy board - shit sometimes happens, accept it.
The point is though that you must not pass judgement on ASRock boards based
on your sample size of just one board.

I agree. But when you encounter such a series of problems with a product you
use for the first time, you start searching for similar cases on the net.
And I found a lot ! All without working solutions. Or you try the support
site, where I got no valid answer. That's why I made my conclusion that
possibly should apply only to the P4VT8.

I have built in excess of 70 systems using boards by ASRock and as I said in
a previous post, all have behaved perfectly.

Which model did you use? Did you try the P4VT8 ???

In relation to your experience of XP not installing and Win2K crashing after
install, I would comment as follows:
If XP doesn't install there is something wrong and this needs to be fixed.
Installing another operating system won't fix the problem - as you found out
later when Win2K kept crashing.

I didn't expect to fix the mobo problem. My first thought was a defective XP
CD, and therefor I tried another CD, being W2K. And this installed fine,
although I encountered crashes later.

In fact XP is showing it's superiority in that it didn't install on an iffy
platform where as Win2K did.
Experience would have told you to fix the problem that XP was complaining
about and not install Win2K in an attempt to fix the problem.

Again I agree. Problem is that XP did not give any error message. It just
frooze in the early install process, at the moment it should give the
message "hit F6 to install other ATA drivers". I tried this several times,
with all possible HD config combinations of formating and partitioning. I
also downloaded the set of XP boot diskettes, but got exactly the same
result.

My guess is that your ASRock board was not compatible with the memory you
used whilst your replacement board was.
Did you try a memtest programme from a floppy disc?
Do you use cheap n' cheerful memory or decent stuff like Crucial?

Memory was Corsair XMS PC3200. No problems at POST. I checked for supported
memory on the Asrock site, but the P4VT8 does not appear in mem support, nor
in VGA card support, but only in the CPU list.

When you come across a problem and eventually solve it you learn something
and your experience increases.
What you seemed to learn and want to pass on is "Don't buy ASRock boards
because I couldn't get one to work" - hardly appropriate is it?

You're right. I should not generalize and should have said "don't buy the
P4VT8".
By the way, in the meantime I returned the P4VT8 to the dealer who first
refused to exchange the board. He accepted however to try to install XP in
his office and... had the same problem ! A technician there told me it was
not the first time they had problems with Via based Asrock motherboards for
P4 CPU's.
Finally they agreed to change the board for a P4i65GV, based on the Intel
865GV chipset. Delivery is planned in 2 weeks. I hope this will work.Wait
and see...

 

[ElJerid]

The board could be bad or windows' files corrupt, or overheating, bad
power supply, etc, etc. Simply because a memory module appears to run
fine in one system, it's no guarantee that it'll run fine in another.
Some chipsets are picker, board designs not as good, or bios defaults (or
user changes to bios settings) can make a large difference. Sometimes
there's even major bios bugs in the lower-cost boards, making it very
important to update the bios for at least the first few bios releases.

That was also my first idea, but it appeared that the last release was
already installed.

Do no rely on such 3rd party programs for temp and voltage... not on that
board or any board. Use the manufacturer's provided hardware monitor
program or the bios health monitor (or however it's worded) screen.

Was also my idea when I had those strange reports. So I asked to Asrock
support and their answer was they don't supply any monitor program and that
all third-party programs could give erroneous readings ! This was of course
very helpfull...

It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused voltage
so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.




I doubt it's an OS incompatiblity. Perhaps it is defective, but it's
quite a jump to conclude that without quite a bit of testing various
things first. Temp, voltage, fans, memory, etc.

I agree, but I did a lot of testing and see my other post about what finally
the professional dealer found out.
Thanks for all the reactions.

 

[~misfit~]

I did. I let him know about the errors in his knowledge, and what the
correct 'answers' were to points he raised. It seems that you're
looking for an argument. I can't help it if you have such low self
esteem that you read things into posts like 'talking down' and
'ridicule'. Those things were not there.

"I can't help it if you have such low self esteem....."?

See my point?

Probably not.

 

[~misfit~]

kony wrote:

<snip>

Slight change of subject from ~misfit~ (Yet again!)

It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused
voltage so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.

(I'm not sure if I've mentioned this here)

Dave, remember I told you my PSU was outputting a really low 3.3v? I bit the
bullet and bought an AcBel 400W PSU and fitted it. The 3.3v is perfect now,
as are the +12v, -12v and the +5v. However, the -5v constantly reads
around -3.5v. I'm told in another group that this is nothing to worry about
and would only maybe effect serial ports (I don't use them, have them
disabled in BIOS).

I *still* don't have a DVM or multi-meter. I priced some yesterday, it's top
of my shopping list for when I have the money. (I could buy the cheapest one
now but it's not my nature to buy cheap'n'nasty stuff if I can aviod it)
Should I just not worry about this? (It's my nature to worry, I suffer from
an anxiety disorder). Or should I try returning the PSU? With the old PSU
(which, when I removed it from the case, turned out to be a 'Leaf' 400W)
the -5v was stable at spec.

BTW, the PC is running perfectly. The PSU, even though quieter than the old
one, pulls more air through my case, dropping case temps a couple of
degrees. Also, I've been able to drop the vcore from 1.825v to 1.80v
(XP1800+ @ 10.5 x 200Mhz) and it's still Prime95 stable, it wasn't Prime
stable at 1.80v with the other PSU, the vcore fluctuated a little more than
it does with this one.

The core temp seems a little lower than before too but it's hard to tell for
sure, we're having a cold-snap here that coincided with fitting the new PSU.
Room temp 16°C, Case temp 28°C (But the case thermistor is right in the
air-flow from the graphics card HSF) CPU diode, with SETI CLI running, 100%
load, 36°C.

Cheers,

 

[kony]

Dave, remember I told you my PSU was outputting a really low 3.3v? I bit the
bullet and bought an AcBel 400W PSU and fitted it. The 3.3v is perfect now,
as are the +12v, -12v and the +5v. However, the -5v constantly reads
around -3.5v. I'm told in another group that this is nothing to worry about
and would only maybe effect serial ports (I don't use them, have them
disabled in BIOS).

That's fine for the -5V reading. IIRC, modern com ports derive power from
3.3 or 5V, not -5V.

I *still* don't have a DVM or multi-meter. I priced some yesterday, it's top
of my shopping list for when I have the money. (I could buy the cheapest one
now but it's not my nature to buy cheap'n'nasty stuff if I can aviod it)
Should I just not worry about this? (It's my nature to worry, I suffer from
an anxiety disorder). Or should I try returning the PSU? With the old PSU
(which, when I removed it from the case, turned out to be a 'Leaf' 400W)
the -5v was stable at spec.

No need to worry about it, if it were unnecessarily loaded internal to the
power supply it would read the correct voltage but be wasting power and
creating a minor amount of heat... the cheaper built power supply probably
used a low current linear regulator and so it wasn't subject to the
voltage variations.

BTW, the PC is running perfectly. The PSU, even though quieter than the old
one, pulls more air through my case, dropping case temps a couple of
degrees. Also, I've been able to drop the vcore from 1.825v to 1.80v
(XP1800+ @ 10.5 x 200Mhz) and it's still Prime95 stable, it wasn't Prime
stable at 1.80v with the other PSU, the vcore fluctuated a little more than
it does with this one.

That's a good sign, hopefully your motherboard wasn't too stressed by the
old power supply.

The core temp seems a little lower than before too but it's hard to tell for
sure, we're having a cold-snap here that coincided with fitting the new PSU.
Room temp 16°C, Case temp 28°C (But the case thermistor is right in the
air-flow from the graphics card HSF) CPU diode, with SETI CLI running, 100%
load, 36°C.

Cheers,

It may very well be slightly lower... if the old power supply required
running with vCore of 1.825V then that alone would cause more CPU heat,
and to a lesser extent motherboard heat.

 

[Gary Tait]

Yep, I used to do the same thing, invariably Casio, and they'd last and run
perfectly until the plastic strap broke (oxidised). Then it was about the
same price to get a new watch as it was to get a new strap.

I have the same Casio watch I've had for 10 years or so. On it's third
battery, second strap (don't wear it unless I have to though).

 

[Daniel James]

Why does a new motherboard crashes after a new clean install, while
replacement of just the motherboard results in a perfectly working
system?

Are you talking about replacement with an identical board (same make,
type, BIOS, etc.) or just swapping out the board for a different one?

If you are, indeed, replacing apples with apples then the first apples
would seem to be rotten.

Cheers,
Daniel.

 

[somebody]

<SNIP>
" I am told that Asrock is a cheaper range "

I have to agree with that. In a number of years of building The Asrock is
the only boards I Have ever had a failure on (and I have used some crap).
Not a catastrophic failure I may add, rear usb ports died. However I bought
it thinking it was a quality item. I forget the model, was one of these
maplin bundles that at the time seemed like a great deal.

I consider Asus No1, and maybe my logic is flawed, but I wouldn't buy
a budget board from Asustek. My guess is the likes of Shuttle, EPoX
and Soltek knows much more about how to build a cheap board.
They've been at it for much longer, and have had decent success with
it too.

ancra