Artic Silver 5 vs Artic Ceramique

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nil Einne
  • Start date Start date
After several retail boxed AMD CPU's, it is not a pad, but a thick, kind
of
dry, material. I agree, I don't think it would run. Actually after messing
with various compounds, changing out CPUs & HS's, I can't imagine putting so
much of the crap on there that it would actually run off the CPU & get
under it into the socket!
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I've seen people slap on great gobs of goo thinking more will
be better but it just isn't so.

AMDs site says that thermal grease is OK for short term testing but a pad is
required for long term and warranty considerations. I thing they go with
the pads because they are not liquid like various silicone greases and
arctic compounds and so don't flow but the heat sink spring clip pressure
does thin the pads out after a while and it does not ooze down the CPU as
does thermal compounds that have been there for a while.

I have a small tube of Unick Heat transfer compound and the stuff will
squeeze out from between the CPU and sink after a while, especially if it
has separated in the tube and the applied stuff is mainly silicone oil (did
a late night HS removal to get some numbers from the tag on the CPU and
forgot to squeeze the tube to mix the goo before applying and about a week
later the CPU temps were about 5C higher than normal). A bit of a polish
with some 1200 or 1500 wet and dry and finishing up with some metal polish
(to clean it up) and a well squeezed tube of Unick to get a good mix and a
paper thin coat of the stuff, the temps are back to normal, about 12 to 13C
above room temp, peaking at 15C above after a hard session, depending on
use. Right now, the room temp is 30C and the CPU temp is 42C. I don't have
idle temps as switch the machine off when I have finished a session.

Dave
 
Ray said:
IMHO the "heat spreader" is there more for mechanical reasons than thermal
effeciency. There's just no way it's more effecient than putting the
heatsink in direct contact with the core.
Click to expand...

It covers up any bridges that may be on the CPU board surface and provides a
mechanical protection for the core, preventing core breakages that can occur
on AMD CPUs. Even those spreaders have some sort of thermal transfer
compound between them and the CPU core so that would reduce heat transfer
efficiency compared with direct CPU core to heat sink contact.

Dave
Click to expand...
 
Therein lies the purpose of thermal compound - to lower CPU
You once again, seem to have made the flaw of assuming I live in the
US or similar area. As I have already explained, I CANNOT GET A
CHEAPER BRAND WHERE I AM FROM. At least, I might be able to but it
will not be cheaper. Furthermore, with most brands, except bar a few
like CoolerMaster and Arctic, assuming I will get what I pay for is
fallacy. Therefore, it does not matter what the situation is like in
the US as I am not in the US nor have I ever stated I was. Also, I am
not planning to use a Intel P4 processor (nor have I ever stated I
was), which are know to radiate a lot less heat then AMD processors,
especially and AMD processor which is overclocked. Not to mention AMD
processors (bar the new 64 ones) do not have a heat spreader like most
new Intel processors. So I am highly suspicious of how reliable this
Intel paper is for my situation. In fact, I must wonder if the heat
transfer in centre bit applies to AMD CPUs either. To my best
knowledge, the AMD CPU core heats up rather evenly. As the core is
visible, the compound needs to be placed throughout the core. Not just
in the centre. While in Intel CPUs with heat spreaders, it might be
true the compound only needs to be applied in the centre of the heat
spreader but as AMD CPUs don't have a heat spreader this is
irrelevant. Once again, you perhaps make the mistake of assuming you
know about my situation.

Finally, I should add that an Aero 7 Lite has a machines surface but I
have no idea if it meets your requirements. However, if it does not,
do no tell me to get something better as something better costs a lot
more where I live, even if you take the thermal paste into account.

(Actually, it's all irrelevant now, since I found out my friend has
Arctic Silver 3 which he is going to lend me.)
Click to expand...

W_Tom tends go on and waffle on about a lot of stuff and adding other
considerations in way to much detail but not actually providing numbers
himself in a lot of cases. There really is not a lot of difference in the
various compounds except for marketing hype. Some sites to check would be
the various overclockers sites such as www.overclockers.com and
www.overclockers.com.au or others that may be in your country, just google
overclocker and take some time to check it out for next time.

Since you can get some AS3 from a friend use that and apply it sparingly,
there is a video that you can download from their site that gives the
details of how to apply it. It is made from silver and is conductive to an
extent so be carefull.

Have fun!

Dave
 
Yes, old ladies in lawn bowls hats driver straight through red traffic liths
and stop signs with out looking and turning accros the flow of traffic to
enter the lawn bowls clubs parking lot. Volvos are such safe cars you can
drive like a senile old lunatic and cause traffic mayhem!

:-)
 
Dave said:
Since you can get some AS3 from a friend use that and apply it
sparingly, there is a video that you can download from their site
that gives the details of how to apply it. It is made from silver
and is conductive to an extent so be carefull.
Click to expand...

No, it is not made *from* silver. It's made *with* silver -- along with
other ingredients designed to give it the grey silvery colour, like zinc
oxide and aluminium oxide.

The "99.9% pure silver" doesn't mean that the paste contains 99% silver, but
that the silver that is in it is 99.9% pure (before being added).
The "Over 75% silver content by weight" is also misleading unless you
measure it out by weight and expect the heat transfer to be based on the
weight and not the surface area. Silver is by far the *heaviest*
ingredient, and by volume, it is a minor ingredient.

Regards,
 
Nil Einne said:
Yes that is one fear/problem with Arctic Silver products. The
Ceramique products are designed to have an extremely low conductivity.
However, I have not yet seen any evidence that this is a problem if
the paste is applied properly...
Click to expand...

I just purchased a new ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe Mb from Monarch Computer Systems
in Tucker, GA. Their warranty conditions state that if I use any heat sink
compound that contains silver my warranty is voided. As a result I settled
for the patch that came with the HSF in the Intel boxed P4 processor. It
seems to be doing OK but I am not over clocking the 3 Gig processor. Idle
temp is 35-38C.
 
w_tom said:
The very first thing you want is thermal conductivity for
both thermal compounds. If useful numbers are not provided up
front, then what are they hiding. Arctic Silver prefers you
don't know which is why those numbers are not on every tube.
Their products are not superior to most every other thermal
compound that costs less money.
Click to expand...

I agree with that.
Furthermore, thermal compound
is about shaving pennies of heat in the cooling system when
heat is on the order of dollars. Worrying so much about
thermal compound is being "penny rich and pound foolish".
Click to expand...

When I didn't know better, I became curious and removed the heat sink
from my Pentium 4 to take a look, then just put it back on without much
thought for the thermal contact between the HS and the CPU.

I'm informed that he P4 has an on-chip temperature sensor and a feedback
circuit that slows it down when the chip gets hot. I believe it,
because I could see a number-crunching application of mine go slower the
longer it ran.

Starting with the computer at idle, I ran the app ten times in a row and
recorded the number of seconds of running time of each run. Here are
the results.

0 30.47
1 34.61
2 37.41
3 39.63
4 41.26
5 42.36
6 43.23
7 43.84
8 44.12
9 44.29

When you plot these numbers, you get a very nice curve that appears to
increase to an asymptote between 44 and 45 seconds.

The motherboard is an Intel design with an Intel chipset with a 2.4G
533MHz-FSB P4 in a Dell Dimension 4500. The heatsink is a big passive
one that gets airflow from a big slow quiet case exhaust fan with a
hood. I don't know that there is an easy way (eg through the BIOS) to
read the CPU temperature.

After gathering the above data I used kerosene and paint thinner to
remove the thermal compound from the heatsink. It was a foil-covered
layer of rubbery black stuff. Then I cleaned the HS and the CPU with 91%
isopropyl alcohol and coffee filters and applied new thermal compound
(Arctic Silver 3). In accordance with the directions, I used a BB-size
blob so as to achieve a paper-thin layer. It wasn't enough: there was
still a slight time-dependent degradation of performance with an
asymptote near 31 seconds. I removed the HS and found that the AS3 was
covering only about half of the CPU, seemingly due to the HS-retention
design. I recleaned and reapplied AS3, using a 3-BB blob, and soon got
constant runtimes of 28.8 seconds.

It would seem that any skeptical or curious person can reproduce these
results without damaging their recently manufactured P4, but I would not
try it with an AMD as I believe their chips don't have such an automatic
temperature feedback control system.

There is a tendency to overoptimize regarding thermal compounds, but
anybody who removes or installs a CPU heatsink would be making a major
mistake to neglect to apply the thermal compound correctly.
 
After gathering the above data I used kerosene and paint thinner to
remove the thermal compound from the heatsink. It was a foil-covered
layer of rubbery black stuff. Then I cleaned the HS and the CPU with 91%
isopropyl alcohol and coffee filters and applied new thermal compound
(Arctic Silver 3). In accordance with the directions, I used a BB-size
blob so as to achieve a paper-thin layer. It wasn't enough: there was
still a slight time-dependent degradation of performance with an
asymptote near 31 seconds. I removed the HS and found that the AS3 was
covering only about half of the CPU, seemingly due to the HS-retention
design. I recleaned and reapplied AS3, using a 3-BB blob, and soon got
constant runtimes of 28.8 seconds.
Click to expand...

Are there any utilities that measure this kind of effect? It's not good
overclocking your CPU just to find it slowing itself down because it's too
warm.
 
Noozer said:
<snip>
Click to expand...
Are there any utilities that measure this kind of effect? It's not good
overclocking your CPU just to find it slowing itself down because it's too
warm.
Click to expand...

As far as I gather from the OP, he did not OC any component, simply ran a
CPU intensive task in a loop
until thermal protection began to kick in, which on a P4 system would be
considered a rather unrisky test
as they have excellent thermal protection features, and he isnt pushing it
beyond default volatges.
 
Philip Callan said:
As far as I gather from the OP, he did not OC any component, simply ran a
CPU intensive task in a loop
until thermal protection began to kick in, which on a P4 system would be
considered a rather unrisky test
as they have excellent thermal protection features, and he isnt pushing it
beyond default volatges.
Click to expand...

But, a properly cooled P4 CPU shouldn't slow down under normal
circumstances, even under full load...

What I'd like to see is an application that pushes the CPU 100% and displays
a graph of CPU temperature and CPU speed. That way you could see where the
CPU is starting to throttle itself due to overheating.
 
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