Are Epson Printers just TOTAL CRAP ???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Plasma BOY
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I am on my 4th epson the first being the old one with a ribbon
I've been using them since the early 80's
I'm sure other companys make good and bad ones also
I will stay with the epson.
Maybe my Chevy is better than your ford...
 
retsoppot said:
I am on my 4th epson the first being the old one with a ribbon
I've been using them since the early 80's
I'm sure other companys make good and bad ones also
I will stay with the epson.
Maybe my Chevy is better than your ford...
Click to expand...


Epson is a fine printer. I think Canon is better for certain purposes
like printing more striking photos at a better price. HP, at least the
older models were probably the best for business documents.
 
I would question this statement until verification from a known credible
source.

Art
Click to expand...

Understood, Art. I'm keeping an open mind both ways. I was surprised
in that I had heard here that 'Canons use pigment, Epsons use dye' and
assumed that truism held across the board. Maybe not.

The tech was very knowledgable in other respects. In fact, he advised
on a method for doing emergency printouts of b&w pages using only the
colored ink (black nozzle is clogged). I had attempting several
combinations of settings and failed to get reliable pseudo-black. His
settings worked well. He also said he owns an IP4000.

So given that the IP-series uses a BCI-3eBk black cartridge while
using color carts from the BCI-6 series, then this would make sense.
The reasoning was that the black *pigment* would cover better than
dye, while the dye-based colors are less likely to clog printheads.

Unfortunately, this would still not prevent clogged black printheads.

Nor can I just pick up an IP4000 and use my existing cartridges
(all new BCI-3e series---the reason I asked about this to begin with).
My i860 never got much use before the black clogged, so I was hoping
to recover something from it. A new head is $40+ (non-returnable),
and it could end up being driver electronics or something else .
 
The e inks may well be pigment ink, as the person suggested.

In trying to get through the flood of messages I skimmed yours and
missed the reference to the i860 with the BCI-3e inks being the one he
claimed to be pigment colorants. They probably were, and it would
explain why Canon has tried to stay away from pigment color inks since,
to avoid inkhead clogs. I understand Canon has new inks with much
superior longevity in the works in Japan (I believe they have been
released there). I do not know if they are pigment or dye colorant
based. I suppose they are testing the functionality on a smaller market
before considering a wider distribution.

Art
 
(Subject line changed from Epson thread)

Art,

I just spoke with another knowledgeable guy at Canon (that's about
2 out of 8 <g>) who had additional input about the 3e inks. He said
that the 3e black is pigment but that the 3e colors were dye. I
believe he had access to some to some inhouse docs re the i850
(not sure if the 860 uses the same carts).

So...there's a difference of opinion betw the two Canon guys about
the colors. However, they both agreed that the 3E black is pigment-
based. I'd say that there's a good chance of this, given that the
IP4000 uses two black carts--one 3E and one 6E. That may indicate
that they are trying to get deeper blacks in color pics by using a
dye-based black (the 6E cart) that is more consistent with the dye
colors, while using the 3E primarily for dark text output.

Both color dye/pigment arguments make sense, except that you'd
think they could have stayed with an improved 3E color cart if indeed
it was dye-based. (I hope all that made some degree of sense)

This could also be points in favor of the ip4000 vs the ip3000, even
if the user is printing lots of text. If/when the normal black
pigment nozzle gets clogged, there's the dye-based black 6E cart to
fall back on. Not sure if that warrants the price difference.

It's possible to print B&W using just the color inks, but it's not as
dark, of course. I've used the i850 with clogged black printhead to
do this by setting the driver to high quality, gloss pro photo paper
(even if printing on regular copy paper). Setting it for Norm
quality/plain paper just outputs blank pages for some reason.

Again, I'm not making any assumptions about what's really in the carts
(or why they changed from 3E to 6E for that matter...I should have
asked the last guy about that). Just speculation based on what the
better techs have said.

Also musing out loud about whether to get an IP3000 or 4000. I'm
still pissed about the premature black head-clog on the i850, but I
may have even more problems with Epson if they are pigment-based.
I should remember to do a printout once in a while just to keep the
heads in shape.
 
The BCI-3ebk is the only pigmented cartridge used in a Canon iP3000 or
iP4000 and it is not a substitute or auxiliary to the photo black BCI-6bk.
All of the color cartridges are dye based. With the iP4000 (and I would
assume the iP3000) the pigmented black is used only for plain paper mode. A
simple way to demonstrate this is to print on a scrap piece of glossy photo
paper. Specify different paper modes and you will see the difference in
black ink used. With glossy photo paper, the pigmented black produces an
unacceptable bronzing effect and this will only be evident if plain paper
mode is selected. As to which printer to purchase - iP3000 or iP4000 - the
choice comes down to the intended usage and how much you want to spend. The
additional BCI-6bk with the iP4000 provides for deeper black in photos
whereas the iP3000 uses a composite black from the c,m,y cartridges. I saw
the iP4000 on Amazon today for $113.99 after rebate and newegg.com has them
for about the same price. How good is the iP4000? On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd
give mine a 10+ Of the several Canon printers I own, including s820 and i950
photo printers, this one is my favorite.
 
Ron said:
The BCI-3ebk is the only pigmented cartridge used in a Canon iP3000 or
iP4000 and it is not a substitute or auxiliary to the photo black BCI-6bk.
All of the color cartridges are dye based. With the iP4000 (and I would
assume the iP3000) the pigmented black is used only for plain paper mode. A
simple way to demonstrate this is to print on a scrap piece of glossy photo
paper. Specify different paper modes and you will see the difference in
black ink used. With glossy photo paper, the pigmented black produces an
unacceptable bronzing effect and this will only be evident if plain paper
mode is selected. As to which printer to purchase - iP3000 or iP4000 - the
choice comes down to the intended usage and how much you want to spend. The
additional BCI-6bk with the iP4000 provides for deeper black in photos
whereas the iP3000 uses a composite black from the c,m,y cartridges. I saw
the iP4000 on Amazon today for $113.99 after rebate and newegg.com has them
for about the same price. How good is the iP4000? On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd
give mine a 10+ Of the several Canon printers I own, including s820 and i950
photo printers, this one is my favorite.
Click to expand...

After an instant in store $30.00 rebate at Frys plus an additional
$20.00 rebate from Canon, the IP4000 had a net price of $100.00. This
is the lowest that I have seen it. The small amount over the the IP3000
is well worth it. Having a photo black dye also saves the 3 primary
color carts.
 
I started to mention Fry's as a friend of mine in Texas purchased an iP4000
there for a net of $69.95 after rebate. Unfortunately for me, the only
choices I have are Sam's, (not the)Best Buy and CompUSA. I wish that Fry's
and Costco had locations here.
 
Ron said:
I started to mention Fry's as a friend of mine in Texas purchased an iP4000
there for a net of $69.95 after rebate. Unfortunately for me, the only
choices I have are Sam's, (not the)Best Buy and CompUSA. I wish that Fry's
and Costco had locations here.
Click to expand...

How far is your computer? www.costco.com

I amnot sure if the prices are the same but Frys webstore is www.outpost.com
 
The BCI-3ebk is the only pigmented cartridge used in a Canon iP3000 or
iP4000
Click to expand...

Hi Ron, Yes, I had agreed with that. The only point of contention
between the two Canon techs was whether the earlier BCI-3 *colors*
were pigment or dye. I hadn't stated an opinion on that, as both
would make sense to me.
and it is not a substitute or auxiliary to the photo black BCI-6bk.
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow you there. I thought I'd stated that my impression
was that the BCI-3bk was sub'd for the BCI-6bk when doing B&W
text printouts, and that they probably used the 6bk for color for
better compatibility with the BCI-3 colors.

Also, in regard to my decision about IP3000 vs IP4000: I had
been giving more weight to the iP4000 after my i850's black nozzle
jammed. I've been able to do emergency B&W text printouts using
just the 3 color carts. It would stand to reason that in the same
situation, IP4000's black BCI-6 cart could take over for the BCI-3.
All of the color cartridges are dye based.
Click to expand...

Again, the only question was about the BCI-3-series carts. I guess
I'll have to be more careful what I'm typing. One Canon tech said
the 3-series colors are pigment based; another said dye-based.
(I currently think they're probably dye.)

But if you do have inside info, why did they change from BCI-3
*color* carts to BCI-6? The QY6-0042-000 printhead is used for both
the i850 (using all BCi-3 series) and the IP3000 (using BCi-6 colors).
If the printhead is the same, then why change the type of ink?
 
I think some of the confusion (even for Canon techs) comes into play when
discussing the BCI-3 series. Only the BCI-3ebk, the physically larger black
tank, is pigmented. The other BCI-3 tanks are physically the same as BCI-6
and contain dye based inks. I did email Canon tech support sometime ago
about this same question and the response what that it is a marketing
decision to standardize on a single series, the BCI-6. There was also a
BCI-5 series out for a while, but I don't know of any currently supported
printers that require that tank. Usage of BCI-3ebk instead of the BCI-6bk is
based upon the paper mode selected. Plain paper mode uses BCI-3ebk and other
paper modes use the BCI-6bk. The usage isn't based on the image being
printed (text or photos) but upon the paper type selected. Since plain paper
mode is generally for text printing I can see how the terms can be used
interchangeably. An easy way to see the difference is to print a file
containing both a photo which would have a fair amount of black and some
text. When plain paper is selected the printing is faster due to the
increase number of nozzles for the pigmented black and width of the black
ink stripe. You can easily see the nozzles if you remove the printhead from
the printer. When the other modes are used, printing is slower because the
photo black is utilized. If you want to view the printing, there is a cover
interlock switch on the right rear edge that you can override by rolling up
a piece of paper and pressing into the opening. A small wooden stick like a
skewer or popsicle stick will also work. To be on the safe side use
something non conductive, not a screwdriver.
 
Thanks for keeping us all up on the assorted possibilities. I wonder if
the Canon web site might make mention of the ink formulations and such?

I agree with your assumptions that the black pigment ink is for text.
That would allow for dark blacks with good fade resistance which can be
important for documents.

I believe some HP printers have a similar set up, and I do recall the
black text from HP printers looking very dense and clean. I hope you
get your printer i850 going again. It might clear the black pigment
nozzles with some cleaning liquids that work with it.

Art
 
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:17:24 GMT, Arthur Entlich <[email protected]>
wrote as underneath my scribble :

Amazingly the pigment Canon 3e ink is less waterfast than the 6 dye
inks, try a wet smear test on it! Whereas the HP pigment black is
waterfaster than their dyes!! I surmise that the Canon pigment is a
much less dense suspension maybe as one might expect with the
permanent heads, not as dense printing as HP either though acceptable
-- but not on draft setting where the HP ink shines in comparison.
Charlie+
 
I have difficulty following what is being said regarding the
waterfastness of ink. I print out many pages of programming
instructions and then I take a highlighter (yellow, blue, and orange).
When I print with the HP (most of the time) the ink smears a bit even
after drying for half an hour. And that is using draft which uses less ink.

When I print the same stuff with the Canon IP4000 (BCI-3e BK) there is
virtually no smearing when highlighted within minutes.

This is not my opiinion, it is fact. I have done this numerous times
and the results are always the same.
 
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