Anyway to report bug from XP

  • Thread starter Thread starter Colin Barnhorst
  • Start date Start date
Jared--

There are a number of ways to give feedback, and everyone of them can be reached from XP, and probably 95 on up. I recommend the MBC or MSFT Beta Client reporting tool. The otheres are in the email you got when you signed up. Check it out. Also get the reflex of googling or search enginining things like that --all you'd have to do is google "Vista feedback" or similar words. Or just search this group.

As to what is actually done with the feedback--that is a whole other paradigm because public testers have no interaction with any members of the Beta teams, are denied access to their chats although many of the older ones through the first three weeks in June are on the web so you could "read them" and none of the Live Meetings with Beta team members are public. There are Live Meetings available with Technet and other presenters. They'll answer limited questions, but that's not a feedback vehicle of any kind.

I eagerly await some maven here to show me how any public tester has a clue that there feedback would be any different than yelling at the guys in stripes on NBC Sunday Night football on your TV at your local sports bar.

I would like to hear from someone one substantive way they know that any feedback whatsoever via the public CPP has even been glanced at. I can find nothing substantive at all that indicates feedback via the CPP is any more effective than yelling at the TV.

Here's one more you can use from XP or Vista:

The Windows Feedback Panel
https://131.107.112.141/AboutPanel.aspx?StudyID=3

You can download the MBC (the Microsoft Bug Reporting Client Tool via:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=43655

When you have Vista fixed, it also installs a Feedback icon on the desktop and on the IE7 toolbar as well.


As to your problem I suppose on your Vista boot, we would be glad to try to help, but you need to describe itbecause I'm not bright enough to begin to help you given the words "flaw with start menu/useless trying to reboot/cannot connect to net."

I'll take this stab though--if you have a Vista DVD try to use Win RE's Startup Repair Feature per steps below: There is no downside to your trying it and it may well fix you. Ordinarily I'd recommend SFC (System File Checker or I'd be more specific if I knew what start menu problem you had and what error you get when you try to connect to the net.

What It Can Do:

If you run Win RE's Startup Repair in Vista, it will try to check and repair the following and we're taking about under three minutes usually when it works which is often: (this is not a complete list but a list of major tasks it can perform):

Registry Corruptions

Missing/corrupt driver files (you don't have to guess here--it looks at all of them

Missing/corrupt system files (disabled in Beta 2 as is System File Checker but present newer builds)

Incompatible Driver Installation

Incompatible OS update installations

Startup Repair may offer a dialogue box to use System restore.

How to Use Startup Repair:

***Accessing Windows RE (Repair Environment):***

1) Insert Media into PC (the DVD you burned)

2) ***You will see on the Vista logo setup screen after lang. options in the
lower left corner, a link called "System Recovery Options."***

Screenshot: System Recovery Options (Lower Left Link)
http://blogs.itecn.net/photos/liuhui/images/2014/500x375.aspx

Screenshot: (Click first option "Startup Repair"
http://www.leedesmond.com/images/img_vista02ctp-installSysRecOpt2.bmp

3) Select your OS for repair.

4) Its been my experience that you can see some causes of the crash from
theWin RE feature:

You'll have a choice there of using:

1) Startup Repair
2) System Restore
3) Complete PC Restore

Good luck,

CH
 
There is an additional ridiculous aspect that makes public bug reporting even more futile and anything MSFT says to solicit them completely insincere and disingenuous--or to put it more clearly patently false. On Beta groups and in Beta chats there is some although hardly complete information/indication--a bit like a "drive by shooting" and what gets yelled out the window (no pun with the software made by MSFT) that so and so bug will be fixed in so and so build--although I have seen that never happen many many times. Scores of bugs purported to be fixed by Beta 2 were not fixed two builds later.

So the CPP tester would have no idea whether a bug he sees in his Beta 2 or RC1 would be fixed in a CTP interim build that gets issued roughly monthly to Beta testers. No one is telling him or her. The release notes have scant information and unlike most software on the web, no indication or list of bugs fixed in the latest build. He or she would have to rely on Vista enthusiast sites and forums.

If you downloaded a driver or an app, beta or not from a 3rd party you'd get a list of what's been fixed since the last version or build. Not so with MSFT. This butresses my point that the major reason that 2 million people were given Vista was marketing hype. Microsoft wants to build buzz and hype any way it can. It has no concern over the time that would be wasted if those 2 million or so people filed bug reports via the MBC or the attenuated public Scenario Voting that is an impontent shadow of SV or Feature Focus opportunity for Beta testers.

Truth in advertising would be for MSFT to say "Yo CPPs. We want to build hype and buzz so we can boost sales opportunities for what is the 20% increase in our last quarter financial report--OEM sales--offset by a 20% decrease in retail sales so download this and play with it.

CH


..
 
Are you saying we are wasting our time submitting bug reports?.






Jared--

There are a number of ways to give feedback, and everyone of them can be
reached from XP, and probably 95 on up. I recommend the MBC or MSFT Beta
Client reporting tool. The otheres are in the email you got when you
signed up. Check it out. Also get the reflex of googling or search
enginining things like that --all you'd have to do is google "Vista
feedback" or similar words. Or just search this group.

As to what is actually done with the feedback--that is a whole other
paradigm because public testers have no interaction with any members of the
Beta teams, are denied access to their chats although many of the older ones
through the first three weeks in June are on the web so you could "read
them" and none of the Live Meetings with Beta team members are public.
There are Live Meetings available with Technet and other presenters.
They'll answer limited questions, but that's not a feedback vehicle of any
kind.

I eagerly await some maven here to show me how any public tester has a
clue that there feedback would be any different than yelling at the guys in
stripes on NBC Sunday Night football on your TV at your local sports bar.

I would like to hear from someone one substantive way they know that any
feedback whatsoever via the public CPP has even been glanced at. I can find
nothing substantive at all that indicates feedback via the CPP is any more
effective than yelling at the TV.

Here's one more you can use from XP or Vista:

The Windows Feedback Panel
https://131.107.112.141/AboutPanel.aspx?StudyID=3

You can download the MBC (the Microsoft Bug Reporting Client Tool via:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=43655

When you have Vista fixed, it also installs a Feedback icon on the desktop
and on the IE7 toolbar as well.


As to your problem I suppose on your Vista boot, we would be glad to try to
help, but you need to describe itbecause I'm not bright enough to begin to
help you given the words "flaw with start menu/useless trying to
reboot/cannot connect to net."

I'll take this stab though--if you have a Vista DVD try to use Win RE's
Startup Repair Feature per steps below: There is no downside to your trying
it and it may well fix you. Ordinarily I'd recommend SFC (System File
Checker or I'd be more specific if I knew what start menu problem you had
and what error you get when you try to connect to the net.

What It Can Do:

If you run Win RE's Startup Repair in Vista, it will try to check and repair
the following and we're taking about under three minutes usually when it
works which is often: (this is not a complete list but a list of major tasks
it can perform):

Registry Corruptions

Missing/corrupt driver files (you don't have to guess here--it looks at all
of them

Missing/corrupt system files (disabled in Beta 2 as is System File Checker
but present newer builds)

Incompatible Driver Installation

Incompatible OS update installations

Startup Repair may offer a dialogue box to use System restore.

How to Use Startup Repair:

***Accessing Windows RE (Repair Environment):***

1) Insert Media into PC (the DVD you burned)

2) ***You will see on the Vista logo setup screen after lang. options in the
lower left corner, a link called "System Recovery Options."***

Screenshot: System Recovery Options (Lower Left Link)
http://blogs.itecn.net/photos/liuhui/images/2014/500x375.aspx

Screenshot: (Click first option "Startup Repair"
http://www.leedesmond.com/images/img_vista02ctp-installSysRecOpt2.bmp

3) Select your OS for repair.

4) Its been my experience that you can see some causes of the crash from
theWin RE feature:

You'll have a choice there of using:

1) Startup Repair
2) System Restore
3) Complete PC Restore

Good luck,

CH
 
No, we are not wasting our time submitting bug reports as "members" of the
CPP. I have had feedback from reports I have submitted, so they definitely
do get looked at, and passed onto the appropriate development team.
So, if you find a bug, however small or insignificant it may seem, report
it!!
 
If that's the case Jane, why are their several messages posted in the comments section of the Technet Vista "team" blog--there are 100's of teams but that's what it's called run by one guy, and on other blogs on feedback by Softies asking for "maybe a chat with you all or some way to know what happens to bugs. I'll bet whatever feedback you got is not much and why in the world didn't you post a couple examples --was it that intimate and private?

Here are some quotes from them posted in the last couple days:

"A Bug's Life"
"Customer feedback makes for a better Windows."

July 14, 2006 was the date for these comments--within a week of this post.

"I am in the customer preview program for vista but am in a few betas on connect. If I submit feeback using the same passport/live id why can I NOT log into Connect and view my bug reports".

"Link bug reports in vista to another connect bug report. There is a glitch with Windows update that reports a driver for my ATI Remote wonder (the same driver is posted on microsoft update on XP SP 2) I bugged it during the Microsoft Update 6 SP 1 beta it was never resolved and still exists in Vista.

"There is a glitch in the Beta client where when I use the manual update feature it tells me there is an update I follow the instructions to have it update the program restarts runs the setup again.(I see the msi progress bar) opens then if I run the updater again it tells me the same update is available. Bascially it creates a loop telling me the update is available."

"Maybe have a microsoft technical chat where the beta testers can talk to you guys directly???"

"Why exactly can't we expect you at MS to publish such information publicly? That sounds like a very old-guard Microsoft stance vs. a more open MS. I'm very curious how publishing bug-fix stats could be anything but a good thing."

There have been over 30 Vista Beta chats that have been held since the Beta birthed last July over a year ago. Do you see one public chat on Vista on this list?

Microsoft Technical Chats
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/chats/default.mspx

I posed the same points at a Live Meeting the other day and the presenter from MSFT agreed with me entirely. I also posed UAC implementation problems on a chat and the PM there agreed with me entirely as well. Have you tried to reach "My Documents" on an XP boot from a Vista boot if you have any multi boots?

Many people I know who submitted bugs got zilch/zero/nada/not diddly squat of a comment. Did you perhaps get a bot message that said "thanks so much for your interest or perhaps "this bug is closed"--that happens to a number of bugs that have persisted since last July.

Jane what happens when you go to your cmd prompt and type

sfc /?

Tell me one switch you see that indicates SFC can be run to replace files? Try it and see. In XP SFC can be a major fixer. I see problems here every day I'd like to recommend trying it and I end up with no choice bug to recommend either SR or Startup Repair as part of Wiu RE.

Tell me Jane are your buttons on Win Mail's main interface for the NNTP newsreader staying put--because most people's aren't?

What are examples of your feedback and what were your bug? What did you get fixed by the Beta team Jane? Did the "appropriate development team" even ID itself and the member/developer/PM whomever handled your bug?

Why aren't the same mechanisms for the CPPs and the Beta testers for bugs? Why not the same Scenario Voting instead of much attenuated and why not the same Feature Focuses? Why are the Beta chats and Live Meetings closed? I'll tell you why. To create an air of exclusivity and entitlement and further push the hype.

What's the result? A less knowledgable population of Vista users. And for example I haven't seen in depth knowledge of Win RE or why SFC doesn't work yet in Vista anywhere by any kind of tester. Why? Because they haven't been provided with the information.

Jane if you find substantive technical documentsation for Win RE's components, SR, and SFC would you please link them? Because I don't see any over a year gone since the Beta birth.

CH
 
Yes. And I'm saying they are purposely wasting your time by providing false hope and misleading statements that they are responding to them. I'm saying it's marketing hype. and you will get the same response if you yell coaching comments to the NFL quaterbacks on your television when the season starts or if soccer is your game to the players on your TV. Try yelling plays in to Seattle quaterback Matt Hasselbeck or your favorite NFL quaterback when the Seahawks have their first game on TV. You'll get as much interaction.

I'm saying I don't see any evidence of any response. I see a lot of information witheld from the public and no documentation and I've been very specific.

I'm saying I see little documetation of Vista features on any MSFT website in depth. And I've seen all MSDN and Technet have. I've read every MSKB they have on Vista--there are about 60 now.

I've also been specific about how you could be included in the relatively little information that is specific that they are disseminating beyond the superficial junk on sites like http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista and the other help sites that are public. Even many of the technet articles are devoid of much detail.

And MSFT ocassionally makes an appearance here. Darrell Gorter is a lead team member of the Vista setup team and has been working with Windows for MSFT since Windows 3.1 since December 1993. So it's naive to think that individuals from the 70,000 person company connected with the Vista Beta don't ever read this chat as Colin has asserted. They may not "monitor" it whatever that means but it gets read by some of them.

Where else are they going to get some sense of CPP problems? Focus groups perhaps. I just know that several major bugs have persisted with Vista now over a year in Beta and I've been specific about some of them.

CH
 
Is the bold type because of an accessibility issue or do you think it somehow reinforces your points?
Yes. And I'm saying they are purposely wasting your time by providing false hope and misleading statements that they are responding to them. I'm saying it's marketing hype. and you will get the same response if you yell coaching comments to the NFL quaterbacks on your television when the season starts or if soccer is your game to the players on your TV. Try yelling plays in to Seattle quaterback Matt Hasselbeck or your favorite NFL quaterback when the Seahawks have their first game on TV. You'll get as much interaction.

I'm saying I don't see any evidence of any response. I see a lot of information witheld from the public and no documentation and I've been very specific.

I'm saying I see little documetation of Vista features on any MSFT website in depth. And I've seen all MSDN and Technet have. I've read every MSKB they have on Vista--there are about 60 now.

I've also been specific about how you could be included in the relatively little information that is specific that they are disseminating beyond the superficial junk on sites like http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista and the other help sites that are public. Even many of the technet articles are devoid of much detail.

And MSFT ocassionally makes an appearance here. Darrell Gorter is a lead team member of the Vista setup team and has been working with Windows for MSFT since Windows 3.1 since December 1993. So it's naive to think that individuals from the 70,000 person company connected with the Vista Beta don't ever read this chat as Colin has asserted. They may not "monitor" it whatever that means but it gets read by some of them.

Where else are they going to get some sense of CPP problems? Focus groups perhaps. I just know that several major bugs have persisted with Vista now over a year in Beta and I've been specific about some of them.

CH
 
Intel Inside said:
Are you saying we are wasting our time submitting bug reports?.
Click to expand...


No, it's not a waste. They all get read and counted. The more reports from
different users of the same bug, the higher on the priority list it rises.
 
Hi,

Notice flaw with start menu make its useless even trying to reboot. Would
like to report problem but cant connect to net.
 
Maybe it is a question of: those who can say won't say and those who can't
say do say?

In either case an official statement is far, far better than an opinion
(personal or otherwise) or insight that that such an opinion may confer.

The facts of the matter are or appear to be:

- CTPs exist

- betas exist

- bug reports exist

- forums/NGs exist

- user feedback exists

These, in my opinion, are not trivialities.
 
"and passed onto the appropriate development team"
that's a strange expression for a member of the public to use. It appears
that you have intimate knowledge of the processes involved. Do you work for
MS.
Hmmm?
 
CH, that bold print is a bit overpowering so please use just plain text.
In OE this option is under the Format menu, in fact I've used it to convert
your's to plain text.



Is the bold type because of an accessibility issue or do you think it
somehow reinforces your points?
Yes. And I'm saying they are purposely wasting your time by providing false
hope and misleading statements that they are responding to them. I'm saying
it's marketing hype. and you will get the same response if you yell coaching
comments to the NFL quaterbacks on your television when the season starts or
if soccer is your game to the players on your TV. Try yelling plays in to
Seattle quaterback Matt Hasselbeck or your favorite NFL quaterback when the
Seahawks have their first game on TV. You'll get as much interaction.

I'm saying I don't see any evidence of any response. I see a lot of
information witheld from the public and no documentation and I've been very
specific.

I'm saying I see little documetation of Vista features on any MSFT website
in depth. And I've seen all MSDN and Technet have. I've read every MSKB
they have on Vista--there are about 60 now.

I've also been specific about how you could be included in the relatively
little information that is specific that they are disseminating beyond the
superficial junk on sites like http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista and the
other help sites that are public. Even many of the technet articles are
devoid of much detail.

And MSFT ocassionally makes an appearance here. Darrell Gorter is a lead
team member of the Vista setup team and has been working with Windows for
MSFT since Windows 3.1 since December 1993. So it's naive to think that
individuals from the 70,000 person company connected with the Vista Beta
don't ever read this chat as Colin has asserted. They may not "monitor" it
whatever that means but it gets read by some of them.

Where else are they going to get some sense of CPP problems? Focus groups
perhaps. I just know that several major bugs have persisted with Vista now
over a year in Beta and I've been specific about some of them.

CH
 
She is correct and it is public knowledge that bugs are maintained in a
database, triaged, assigned priorities, and routed to the teams that own the
features or services. Many at MS have blogged on this process and several
discussions have been captured by Channel 9.
 
Pure accessability and an aversion to Times New Roman. However, no bold is set at all. There is no bold set at Tools>Options>Compose Tab>Fonts button. I'd use IE Tools>Options>Accessability "ignore font size on spec web pages" but that doesn't deploy to OE only IE pages.

The points stand on their own IMHO (at least their intended to, and are butressed with evidence). I wouldn't hope to attempt to enhance them with a visual appearance. You have that confused with your ubiquitous de riguer American boob jobs shortly after the age of 15 in 80% of your American women (the mud wrestling hamsters on steroids and meth trying to escape the chest fashion statement); Manalo Blahniks and Jimmy Choos; and your gas guzzling oil dependent SUVs to make a fashion statement that have your country in deep trouble worldwide,

Not the least would be of course Aero Glass and its sequels- (when you can't deliver substance or fix Windows File Protection you can try to divert their attention with specious visual sizzle) a quintissential example of a group of people who think a fashion statement reenforces their point that an OS is "clear, confident, and connected."

BTW Colin, when you consistently encourage "public feedback," where do you think that effort goes that distinguishes it from yellin' at the TV or the computer monitor? Considering Beta feedback to fix SFC and a panoply of other features since a year ago in July '05 has fallen on very deaf ears? They got that Aero glass though.

All these people who cluck dutifully (kind of "support the party" no matter what) that there is meaningful public feedback can't produce a scintilla of proof that there is.

CH


"His first presidential veto may be bad news for the critically ill, but it was a twofer for the white house. It not only flattered the president's base. It also drowned out some awkward news; the prime minister he installed in Baghdad, Nur8-al-Maliki, and the fractious Parliament of Iraq's marvelous new democracy had called a brief timeout foromtheir civil war to endorse the sole cause that unites them, the condemnation of Israel."

Frank Rich "The Passion of the Embryos" NYT July 23, 2006
-----------------
"Hezbollah asked them to 'bring it' and they're about to taste a full meal of 'bring it' with the objective of hauling their butts out one way or another."

Federalist Paper No. 33 James Madison and John Jay


Is the bold type because of an accessibility issue or do you think it somehow reinforces your points?
Yes. And I'm saying they are purposely wasting your time by providing false hope and misleading statements that they are responding to them. I'm saying it's marketing hype. and you will get the same response if you yell coaching comments to the NFL quaterbacks on your television when the season starts or if soccer is your game to the players on your TV. Try yelling plays in to Seattle quaterback Matt Hasselbeck or your favorite NFL quaterback when the Seahawks have their first game on TV. You'll get as much interaction.

I'm saying I don't see any evidence of any response. I see a lot of information witheld from the public and no documentation and I've been very specific.

I'm saying I see little documetation of Vista features on any MSFT website in depth. And I've seen all MSDN and Technet have. I've read every MSKB they have on Vista--there are about 60 now.

I've also been specific about how you could be included in the relatively little information that is specific that they are disseminating beyond the superficial junk on sites like http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista and the other help sites that are public. Even many of the technet articles are devoid of much detail.

And MSFT ocassionally makes an appearance here. Darrell Gorter is a lead team member of the Vista setup team and has been working with Windows for MSFT since Windows 3.1 since December 1993. So it's naive to think that individuals from the 70,000 person company connected with the Vista Beta don't ever read this chat as Colin has asserted. They may not "monitor" it whatever that means but it gets read by some of them.

Where else are they going to get some sense of CPP problems? Focus groups perhaps. I just know that several major bugs have persisted with Vista now over a year in Beta and I've been specific about some of them.

CH
 
The post makes no sense at all--except in the arena of cryptic with no point made; you excelled there..

Any allusion to "those who can't say won't say" reminds me of a rock and roll song's lyrics and snob-based elite effite paradigm a lot like the "Church Lady" Ayattollah led US government where everything is clouded in secrecy. You mean you're advocating no education at the expense of the people who rpresent MSFT's only significant growth base in sales of the Windows OS and Office OS--the OEM pre-installs according to their own financials from last quarter? [20% increase in OEM preinstall sales and 20% decrease in retail sales]?

There is nothing in the way of documentation made available except for pure laziness. MSFT's sites are awash with superficial crap for the most part as to how Vista works at this moment. The Product Guide is a qunitissential example. It's a banal cheer-leading document at a child's level with a couple sentences that read "such and such is way cool 'cause it's Vista about major feautres like Win RE or System Restore." Does it make you happy? No surprise there.

I don't really know what you mean by official statement (lol) but I bet I cover a lot more territory on MSFT sites and resources than you do. Why don't you post some substantive articles on Win RE, SFC, or System Restore that are official in that case? It'd be great to see them but *you can't find them--they don't exist. Most of those who "won't say" if you mean TBTs are confused out the wazoo as to these topics. I've seen the bumbling posts for months that cry out for substantive info. The word was substantive not superficial.

I esepcially think it's funny that you felt the need to make some triple spaced list announcing the existence of CTPs, Betas, bug reports, and all that jazz. You thought we were unaware. They exist but they don't work well. Bug reports haven't corrected some of the most significant bugs in a year since Beta Vista birthed. Why don't you crank your cmd up and type sfc /? and see how many switches are working? That has been bugged to infinity by many for months on the Beta. "User feedback" for CPPs is a myth and meaningful information available for all Vista users at this point is a myth. The crap with providing an icon on the desktop, a duplicate at the tools menu on the IE toolbar, the mbc whose link is actually hard to find unless it's provided on Connect to TBTs--I don't see the MBC link on any MSFT site--I provided a public link a few posts ago--and the joke SV site are one way opportunities to waste time. There is again, no evidence they are metablolized and a significant number of bugs won't be fixed long after RTM. I see them now; I'll see them then.

I don't know what your criteria for "trivialities" are but my point was public bugging garners no feedback and it's a waste of time. I've seen Beta testers out the wazoo complain repeatedly and loudly their bugs are closed with no explanation and they are very capable Windows/pc/hdw users and veterans of a lot of OS betas.

Since you think "feedback exists" you should have no problem posting proof that public feedback is acknowledged meaningfully. I posted recent quotes from the guy's blog in charge of Beta testing for Vista that shows that not to be the case.

CH
 
Frank--

How do you know this? They say it to you on an MVP convention at Redmond? They tell you on the phone? 'Cause blogs from MSDN, Technet, are full of comments from CPP's pleading for some feedback on your feedback.

CH

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve
neither liberty or security"

Great quote--it describes the majority of citizens of the US right now and their "church lady" government that is so mush brain dead it cheered when embryonic stem cell funding was vetoed and 2/3 of the country is for it. It cheered when Karl Rove, not a doctor asserted that adult stem cell lines now "corrupted" as they say in IT and contaminated as they say in medicine are worthless and never had significant potential.

..Congrats to the EFF who was able to break a chain of government invoking "states secret" a record 19 times to defeat ATT and the government in the eavesdropping case last week.

http://www.eff.org/
EFF Defeats Government Motion in Spying Case
"State Secrets" and AT&T Motions to Dismiss Denied
 
No, I don't work for MS. I do, however, actually read the follow up emails
received from Microsoft regarding bug reports that I have submitted.
 
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