Anybody use Linux? For old hardware, which distro?

[Jean-David Beyer]

Thinking of using on an old 1998 laptop PC that presently has a
Pentium II, with a built in generic Dell modem, USB mouse, 512k RAM
(!), DVD/CD, running Windows XP fine now (very slow), some distro of
Linux.

In another thread I got into a debate about what's the best distro for
a simple new Acer machine ($300) that uses the Atom uP from Intel.
But in this thread I just want to know if *any* Linux distro will work
on such *old* hardware.

The target user's needs are VERY minimal. Very very very. Here is
what she needs:

dial-up modem for internet access. Mouse. Maybe a printer (maybe
not). Support at *any* resolution for the Dell graphics card (forget
the name--it's pretty generic though). No need for an email client--
she keeps all her emails at Yahoo, all her docs at Google apps, etc.
Everything online. No need for sound. The machine has USB but this
girl does not even know what a memory stick is. So only the USB mouse
matters.

Anybody think I can use Linux on this old setup, and, if which one?
Not even a 'best' OS --just one that will last five years or so and
allow surfing the net and maybe printing a document on a printer
locally?

RL

I am running CentOS 4 on a 10 year old box that has dual 550MHz Pentium
III processors, 512 MegaBytes RAM. It had a floppy disk drive and a
dial-up modem in it (though I have since removed them. It has an 80
GTByte 7200 rpm EIDE hard drive and two 9 GByte 10,000 rpm SCSI hard
drives in it. It has a USB printer and a SCSI CD-ROM burner. A Matrox
G200 (?) video card, and a bottom of the line Soundblaster card in it.

 

[Aragorn]

Thinking of using on an old 1998 laptop PC that presently has a
Pentium II, with a built in generic Dell modem, USB mouse, 512k RAM
(!), DVD/CD, running Windows XP fine now (very slow), some distro of
Linux.

In another thread I got into a debate about what's the best distro
for a simple new Acer machine ($300) that uses the Atom uP from
Intel. But in this thread I just want to know if *any* Linux distro
will work on such *old* hardware.

Thinking of using an old 1995 PC that presently has an 8086 cpu with
built in CGA graphics, 128k RAM upgraded from 64K, running Linux
2.6.18 kernel with all the trimmings. [...]

I'm quite curious how you could get Linux to run on an 8086 CPU, or are
you talking of a subset of the Linux kernel designed for embedded
systems with such a processor?

Last time I checked, Linux requires at minimum an i386-compatible
processor in order to use the kernel for anything other than an
embedded system that runs only a subset of the kernel code. Not even
an i286 will do because Linux is at minimum 32-bit - 31-bit on IBM
mainframes.

The 8086 doesn't have a protected mode, and hence, no ability to set up
pagetables or descriptor tables, and no privilege rings, and Linux
requires these. So in all honesty, how did you pull that off? (Unless
you were not being serious in that statement, which, given that you are
responding to a troll who's not capable of being serious himself, would
of course make sense.)

 

[Man-wai Chang to The Door (33600bps)]

Thinking of using on an old 1998 laptop PC that presently has a
Pentium II, with a built in generic Dell modem, USB mouse, 512k RAM
(!), DVD/CD, running Windows XP fine now (very slow), some distro of
Linux.

Do you plan to run the server 24 hours a day? A laptop is not designed
for that and it might over-heat itself and start a fire!

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.34
^ ^ 16:08:01 up 15 days 19:19 2 users load average: 1.20 1.06 1.01
ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

 

[Baho Utot]

Thinking of using on an old 1998 laptop PC that presently has a
Pentium II, with a built in generic Dell modem, USB mouse, 512k RAM
(!), DVD/CD, running Windows XP fine now (very slow), some distro of
Linux.

In another thread I got into a debate about what's the best distro
for a simple new Acer machine ($300) that uses the Atom uP from
Intel. But in this thread I just want to know if *any* Linux distro
will work on such *old* hardware.

Thinking of using an old 1995 PC that presently has an 8086 cpu with
built in CGA graphics, 128k RAM upgraded from 64K, running Linux
2.6.18 kernel with all the trimmings. [...]

I'm quite curious how you could get Linux to run on an 8086 CPU, or are
you talking of a subset of the Linux kernel designed for embedded
systems with such a processor?

Last time I checked, Linux requires at minimum an i386-compatible
processor in order to use the kernel for anything other than an
embedded system that runs only a subset of the kernel code. Not even
an i286 will do because Linux is at minimum 32-bit - 31-bit on IBM
mainframes.

The 8086 doesn't have a protected mode, and hence, no ability to set up
pagetables or descriptor tables, and no privilege rings, and Linux
requires these. So in all honesty, how did you pull that off? (Unless
you were not being serious in that statement, which, given that you are
responding to a troll who's not capable of being serious himself, would
of course make sense.)

The latter of course

 

[david]

Thinking of using an old 1995 PC that presently has an 8086 cpu with
built in CGA graphics, 128k RAM upgraded from 64K, running Linux 2.6.18
kernel with all the trimmings. Blender just flies. Will windows 7
work? I just want to know if any current windows version will work on
this *old* hardware.

Later dude.

you'll have to use an embedded version of Linux for the 8086.

 

[RayLopez99]

I still don't think I understand what she needs a computer for - email?

Yes.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

There is a gigantic difference between those two.

You absolutely have to get crystal clear on how much ram.

I think it's 512M RAM. Anyway XP runs on it. Windows 2000 was
running on it, both fine.

So can Linux run on it?

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

I don’t have personal experience with it, but my conclusion would reveal
something like Xubuntu (that’s Ubuntu but with Xfce instead of Gnome).

Aha. That's the problem Frank. You "heard" Xubuntu works fine...but no
experience with it.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

No matter what, there are potential problems with that modem and
possibly the USB mouse on the old hardware.

The modem is probably an old winmodem that will be 'difficult' for
someone who isn't experienced with setting up a modem in linux.

Going to a lot of trouble to make a winmodem work seems like paying a
lot for something worth very little.

Now you're talking sense, speaking as somebody who has built many a PC
from scratch (all with Windows). This rings true. Modem will be the
problem. OK, I forgive Puppy Linux. It probably was a coincidence
the CD-ROM drive died. I have Puppy's distro CD--and I can burn the
latest if need be. The question now: how to configure a modem from
inside of Puppy? Is this still a problem? Tell me how (in general,
not step by step) and I can experiment with this old PC where Puppy is
installed (it also has a Pentium II) since I'm away from the Dell
laptop at the moment. I'll feel better if I can get Puppy to
recognize the internal dial-up modem.

If not (if I can't get Puppy to recognize), I might just scrap going
with a Hayes dial-up modem for this user and upgrade to a DSL modem
for the laptop. I don't think this old Dell laptop has an ethernet
card, and if it does not I guess I can get one of those cards and pop
it in the slot, which it has.

Comments please? You're one of the few here that seems to know what
they are talking about. Rare for these NGs.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

Thinking of using an old 1995 PC that presently has an 8086 cpu with built
in CGA graphics, 128k RAM upgraded from 64K, running Linux 2.6.18 kernel
with all the trimmings.  Blender just flies.  Will windows 7 work?  I just
want to know if any current windows version will work on this *old*
hardware.

Later dude.

EXACTLY! LOL I could not have said it better myself. I am cross-
posting this to COLA, where I hang out, and have often made the same
point.

HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE ARE INTIMATELY CONNECTED. Don't tell me how
poor Windows 7 is, until you get the latest and greatest hardware to
go with it!

Later,

Ray

 

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter

Now you're talking sense, speaking as somebody who has built many a PC
from scratch (all with Windows). This rings true. Modem will be the
problem. OK, I forgive Puppy Linux. It probably was a coincidence
the CD-ROM drive died. I have Puppy's distro CD--and I can burn the
latest if need be. The question now: how to configure a modem from
inside of Puppy?

I have little - or very little - personal experience with setting up
modems in linux because I have been broadband connectivity since the
80s, but I 'glance at' the dialup tools in Puppy and others.

At first glance I would say that the last Puppy I booted 4.2.1 is well
configured to help with the modem problem.

The newest puppy 5.0.1 is based on ubuntu instead of the way it has
always been done before; so I don't know if that is good or bad for
anything.

Is this still a problem? Tell me how (in general,
not step by step) and I can experiment with this old PC where Puppy is
installed (it also has a Pentium II) since I'm away from the Dell
laptop at the moment. I'll feel better if I can get Puppy to
recognize the internal dial-up modem.

The first thing I would do is thoroughly examine all of the hardware
with the XP tools, using System devices and whatever is your favorite
hardware tool such as Belarc or SIW or Everest.

I would also troubleshoot the modem functionality in XP and take notes.

If not (if I can't get Puppy to recognize), I might just scrap going
with a Hayes dial-up modem for this user and upgrade to a DSL modem
for the laptop.

Naturally that would be day/night difference for connectivity.

I don't think this old Dell laptop has an ethernet
card, and if it does not I guess I can get one of those cards and pop
it in the slot, which it has.

Ethernet would help you do a lot of things with setting up the LT. It
is very awkward to experiment with troublesome hardware if you can't put
it on a network with connectivity to work on it.

You don't always have everything you need with some linux live CD
installs; so they 'expect' to go online or get 'their stuff' from
somewhere.

Comments please? You're one of the few here that seems to know what
they are talking about. Rare for these NGs.

Sometimes you act as if you are 'sincerely' trying to do something with
old hardware -- but most of your posting history for years looks more
trollish than sincere.

By that I mean that I consider most crossposting trollish (if not
newbish); I also consider it to be trollish to ask questions in a way
that stimulates responses and then which responses are used to belittle
the system you don't like.

IMO some old hardware would be better off with Win98se, not linux. The
linux Xwindow system and graphical interfaces use more resources than
W98. But, if you have enough ram for someone inexperienced to use linux
graphically instead of an insecure and slow windows such as XP in this
case, then linux is a good choice.

Just behind me I have Puppy 4.2.1 running on a box on my LAN with 192meg
ram and 500mhz AMD and it looks/acts quite frisky.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

MB, sorry.


But which one?

almost any boring stable one.

You wont need the latest and greatest to run old hardware.

Uh-oh. This is going to be interesting...the Dell graphics card--it's
an Inspiron series from Dell if memory serves...might be hard to
replicate? But Windows XP recognized it...no problem.

Dell make nothing: it will be a chipset that is recognised, and Dell are
mainstream enough to be fully supported in any incarnation.

No etc etc please. Pick one. Point me (please) to a link.

Debian or Mint.

Debian, because I know it works, Mint, because I hear its geared towards
multimedia.So it all 'works' without having to dio s[ecial extra
installations.

Do realise that most of the so called 'distro-wars' are basically
bullshit: They are all ports and packages of the same code. The
differences are in how well they have been ported and packaged. And you
take a chance with any.

You WILL need a broadband connection to install however, or at least
download a lot of files.

www.debian.org is teh paxce to start.



Do you want

to win a die hard Windows fan to Linux or not?

Actually I don't care. I am not selling Linux, supporting Linux or have
any sort of support contract with you. Whether you go Linux or stay
windows is of no concern to me. I went that way for my own reasons, and
am overall glad I did.If you want plug and play handholding and
everything made easy for you, Linux may not be waht you want. You have
to get out of that whiny 'I paid, make it work for me' mindset from Redmond.

You haven't paid, and its up to you to get it working. Not me. Or anyone
else.

The upside is you CAN get it working the way YOU want. No one linux
desktop looks quite like another. Nor are they instantly recognisable as
Linux, except they don't look like Macs and they don't look like
Windows. Although they can be made to look close. Its hard to get font
rendering as bad as Windows though, or as good as Mac OS-X.






Etc etc my ass. Hey no

offense, but I code and I've found that if I say "etc etc" it may be
obvious to me, but to a newbie it is confusing. Why not "Damn Small
Linux" then? Boot from the CD? I did that once on a desktop Pentium a
couple of years ago, and the damn DSL did not recognize my hardware...

WEllits only small..

OK...let me go to Distrowatch and enter these key words...hold on
please...OK, back. No hits. Googled it, and got a bunch of stuff
about how "stable" Debian was...no help there.

I think you really had better stick with windows. You want me to wipe
your bottom for you?

Nasty is a dialup? Another reason I fear Linux, since Windows XP is
recognizing the Dell built-in internal modem no problem. Why trash
WIndows for Linux if Windows is working? This is playing in my mind
now...

No it just means you may have to install an extra package that wont be
with the default installation CD. and type a few things in boxes, thats
all.

None of it will be as nasty as Windows, I can assure you.

Got that. It's got a 100GB internal HD.


Interesting....more hassles.

well if you have space, leave them there.

If the machine hangs for a time looking for an internet that isn't
there, ask again and we can tell you how to disable stuff that uses it.

Right. And if you have a multi-stage rocket, fuel it, man it, and fly
it to the moon. Check out the cool moon rocks there...don't forget to
take pictures and bring some moon dust back with you. Etc etc.

Look if you don't want to be positive, just **** off. No one wants you
to try linux if you are too dumb to configure a computer by following
instructions and typing things in boxes.

My sister in law is so dumb she couldn't even get a Mac OS-X machine
working.

I had to set it up so that it does everything for her, including getting
her e-mail, on boot.

I might as well have installed Linux on some machine. She wont ever
touch it.

Sounds good...in theory.

Sorry, in practice.

This Linux idea (it's the third time I've toyed with Linux--once in
the 1990s I actually had NT dual booted with RHAT Linux!) is starting
to scare me...maybe I should back off, unless I get more and better
info.

I think you are probably too stupid to use a computer, or set one up,
actually.

So buy something preinstalled with whatever, and **** off.

 

[John Hasler]

If you want plug and play handholding and everything made easy for
you, Linux may not be waht you want. You have to get out of that whiny
I paid, make it work for me' mindset from Redmond.

No he doesn't. Paid support is readily available. I think most people
would charge double for him, though. He's probably better of sticking
with Windows. Microsoft is used to dealing with dorks.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

No he doesn't. Paid support is readily available.

Ah, but he will say it costs more than using windoze.

I think most people
would charge double for him, though. He's probably better of sticking
with Windows. Microsoft is used to dealing with dorks.

WE had a customer once. Whinged and minged. wouldn't pay for this,
wouldn't pay for that.

One day, he got hacked.

Called us up in a total panic. Big retail chain. Website buggered.
E-mail flooded with obscenities.

No, we said, we couldn't help him unless he

- paid his bill instantly
- agreed to £2500 up front payment to sort it all out.

three hours later the money was in our account, and the police had been
notified to within a few people, of who was responsible...

And we cleaned up his email.
And his site.

Turns out, that was all because he wouldn't refund £200 to a customer
who had a bad piece of kit off the chain.

I love customers like Ray Lopez.

You make your money out of them one day when their supreme
overconfidence and matching stupidity leads them right into the shit
heap. And they will pay anything to get out.

But always do it on a cash before basis. They will always weasel out of
paying, if you let them.

 

[RayLopez99]

I have little - or very little - personal experience with setting up
modems in linux because I have been broadband connectivity since the
80s, but I 'glance at' the dialup tools in Puppy and others.

Wow, you the man. Broadband since the 1980s!? I don't think we had
that at the university I was at in the 1980s; maybe we did as an
intranet. I thought I was a power user because I was using a console
based client to chat via the internet in 1993.

At first glance I would say that the last Puppy I booted 4.2.1 is well
configured to help with the modem problem.

The newest puppy 5.0.1 is based on ubuntu instead of the way it has
always been done before;  so I don't know if that is good or bad for
anything.

OK, I'll check the Puppy I have--it was the latest version downloaded
from 2008, so it might be OK.

The first thing I would do is thoroughly examine all of the hardware
with the XP tools, using System devices and whatever is your favorite
hardware tool such as Belarc or SIW or Everest.

Right. I have Belarc.

I would also troubleshoot the modem functionality in XP and take notes.

Well it works, is Haynes compatible, don't see what else there's to
note.

Naturally that would be day/night difference for connectivity.

Right. But this non-power user, a woman, is so cheap she doesn't want
to spend anything beyond her local basic cable bill, where she watches
Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Ms. Opray Winfrey during daytime TV. I did
convince her however that her phone bill would be free (using Skype)
under DSL, so maybe she might do that...I have no control over her
decision and must assume the worse (which is dial-up modem).

Ethernet would help you do a lot of things with setting up the LT.  It
is very awkward to experiment with troublesome hardware if you can't put
it on a network with connectivity to work on it.

You don't always have everything you need with some linux live CD
installs;  so they 'expect' to go online or get 'their stuff' from
somewhere.

Right. I notice that trend with Windows too--all the updates.

Sometimes you act as if you are 'sincerely' trying to do something with
old hardware -- but most of your posting history for years looks more
trollish than sincere.

I am a troll, but this time I'm sincere. You're smart enough to tell
the difference. When I troll you know it. I'm too lazy to set up
aliases so I use raylopez99 at all times when I'm in Google Groups
(Usenet)--in fact, my old boss knows the real world person behind this
alias and if he's motivated enough to check some of my sillier posts I
guess I would be embarrassed...LOL. He's too busy to check what
shiite I post anyway.

IMO some old hardware would be better off with Win98se, not linux.  The
linux Xwindow system and graphical interfaces use more resources than
W98.  But, if you have enough ram for someone inexperienced to use linux
graphically instead of an insecure and slow windows such as XP in this
case, then linux is a good choice.

Right. That's what I'm thinking. For this user, Linux just might
work. For me (I code in Visual Studio using C#) it would not.

Just behind me I have Puppy 4.2.1 running on a box on my LAN with 192meg
ram and 500mhz AMD and it looks/acts quite frisky.

Wow. That's what is motivating me here...Linux is perfect (in theory)
for old hardware.

RL

 

[John Hasler]

Paid support [for Linux] is readily available.

Ah, but he will say it costs more than using windoze.

Then he should stay with Windows (which he will, of course: he's just a
troll).

 

[RayLopez99]

So buy something preinstalled with whatever, and **** off.

But that's the problem--I asked whether the Acer $300 machine loaded
with Linpus Linux would work, and got conflicting answers, including
one that said it might work for 5 years at most.

BTW, I'm going to (maybe) try Linux Puppy based on Mike Easter's
reply, which was more helpful than yours. You don't seem like a
knowledgeable PC user, just a Linux fan boi/ Windows hater, IMHO.

RL

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

Paid support [for Linux] is readily available.

Ah, but he will say it costs more than using windoze.

Then he should stay with Windows (which he will, of course: he's just a
troll).

Not sure he can even run windows. He certainly seems to feel that typing
things in boxes is too much for even a 'power windows user Who Can
Program' .



Anyway, its clear he likes to find peiople who are enthusiastic
advocates of Linux. Missed out here. I just use it, love it and don't
want to change. Almost don't want the rest of the world using it, as
then people would start trying to write viruses for it...

I guess Ray is one of those people who likes to be part of a big crowd,
and feel like he is a winner because he made the same brand choice as
anyone else. Hence all this carp about 'which distro?' as if it really
mattered. His mistake is in thinking the rest of the world is like him.

Anyway, enough troll baiting.

Time to do something more productive with this machine.

I think I'll design a nuclear power station ;-)

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

But that's the problem--I asked whether the Acer $300 machine loaded
with Linpus Linux would work, and got conflicting answers, including
one that said it might work for 5 years at most.

No, you said that.

BTW, I'm going to (maybe) try Linux Puppy based on Mike Easter's
reply, which was more helpful than yours. You don't seem like a
knowledgeable PC user, just a Linux fan boi/ Windows hater, IMHO.

You couldn't be more wrong Ray dear heart.

I've used every machine OS there is. Linux, Unix (SCO, SUNOS4, SySV) ,
Free BSD, VMS, VM. Mac OS/9. Mac OS-X, Windows 3-> Windows Vista, RM
86,DOS 1.1->6.X, CP/M.MP/M Concurrent CP/M. I've written my own
operating systems and even written C libraries and ported a FORTH
interpreter onto 8086 hardware. I've written more assembler and C than
you have had girlfriends, (or boyfriends) and frankly, I couldn't give a
**** about you and your precious ego.

If you buy a notebook with linux and it doesn't work, take it back. That
should be within your sphere of competence, just.

If it works for ypu, jolly good! If you cant be arsed to make linux work
for you from an installable distro, give up and use windows. I honestly
dont give a flying **** what you use, I just wont have you putting words
in my mouth I never spoke or never wrote.

Windows is perfect for cheapskate idiots. You get ripped for a license
fee for reams of shoddy code and spyware, and that's what seems to make
people happy.I have to use it to run programs that are not available for
other platforms, but fortunately Linux and Sun's Virtual Box means that
I can wrap it in cotton wool and protect it from the real world. So its
an almost reliable program LAUNCHER. A *functional* desktop environment
it ain't. Linux is.

 

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter

That's not right/true. I've been online - commercial BBS such as GEnie
- since the 80s but not broadband. I was dialup for that until the 90s
when my cableco did internet.

Well it works, is Haynes compatible, don't see what else there's to
note.

My experience with internal modems is that you never know enough.

See if you can find out what kind of chipset is in there; and get some
background at linmodems - softmodem deficiencies http://linmodems.org/
Linux Winmodem Support

You need to know how 'soft' the softmodem is compared to a genuine
hardware modem.

This is a good article to read to get an idea
http://www.56k.com/reports/winmodem.shtml Why soft modems are different

"A controllerless modem, ... still has a hardware datapump, but
implements the controller function as software. -- An HSP modem
dispenses with both the controller and the datapump, and uses software
to provide both functions."

But this non-power user, a woman, is so cheap she doesn't want
to spend anything beyond her local basic cable bill, where she watches
Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz and Ms. Opray Winfrey during daytime TV. I did
convince her however that her phone bill would be free (using Skype)
under DSL, so maybe she might do that...I have no control over her
decision and must assume the worse (which is dial-up modem).

Some people are hooked on TV; others are hooked on the internet