Anybody notice that Microsoft doesn't write in .Net?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jim
  • Start date Start date
Mr. Arnold said:
That's incorrect. XML allows this and not Web services, which can be used
by any type of .Net solution or non .Net solution. There is also .NET Biz
Talk server that allows .NET applications and applications running on
mainframes to communicate with each other through the use of XML over TCP
that have nothing to do with Web services, as an example. The key to cross
platform communications is through the use of XML. And XML is a key
component of .NET.
Click to expand...

Since it came directly from Microsoft at
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/net.mspx,
perhaps you should let them know that their info is incorrect.
.NET is not soley about Web solutions.
Click to expand...

Again, this is entirely from the Microsoft website at
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/net.mspx.
Thank you, but I have already read that months ago maybe a year and a half
ago as to what was going to happen..


Business is business and one tries to stay ahead of the competition. It's
Java that needs to catch-up to .Net. But Sun Micro Systems is sitting on
the ECMA .Net Standard committee dancing to MS's tune.

Again, business is business.

Mono is solely for ASP.Net solutions the last time I looked. I don't think
Mono has anything to do with desktop solutions.


They are going to dance to the MS tune just like they did with IBM when
IBM was the king. It's the nature of the beast. It's the old saying is
that you dance to the leader's tune. When some other compnay becomes the
leader, they will all dance to that compnay's tune.


There is no leader of Linux to push it with advertisement money. It's all
a grassroots movement. But Open Source and Linux have forced something
like .Net to be free for developers IMO, otherwise, developers will start
jumping ship on MS. Some have already done just that.


If you think MS is going to fall or not dominate the market in your
lifetime, you have got another thing coming. :)
Click to expand...

Want to bet a pint on it?
BTW, I sat in .Net training classes 8 hours a day for four weeks being
hammered on .NET, when the company I worked for at the time flew in a .Net
guru from India to train the client server developers.
Click to expand...

Perhpas he should visit
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/net.mspx,
before filling your head with ideas that are opposite those published by
Microsoft.
MS is nothing compared to the mutil billons, billons, and billions more
billions then it needs company I use to work for.

I suggest you read the book *Rats in the Grain*, and the company is just
as cut throat and more cut throat than MS will ever be.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will try and dig up a copy.
And Win 2k3 server, IIS7 and .NET are walking Linux and Apache down.
Click to expand...

This too shall end.
 
Cor Ligthert said:
Jim,

As it is as you write, why are you telling this, do it better, however
keep your mouth until you have achieved that.

Cor
Click to expand...

My friend Cor! I was wondering when you'd chime in with utter nonsense.

Thank you for being you. It is a nice break from logical discourse.

jim
 
Hi Jim,


Here is my though:

If you work all day as a developer you'll find your .NET applications
more easy to write and more robust. Yes, some time you need to spend
some time to make your code faster but believe me the final result is
not so slower than C++ and it is *for sure* more robust.


Alberto
Click to expand...

It certianly is much easier to write with the framework as much of the
coding has already been done for you. But, the UI still starts and runs
slower in the apps that I have written to mirror my C++ and VB6 apps on the
desktop.

..Net seems much more suited to web applications where desktop speed is not
required or expected.

jim
 
jim said:
Since it came directly from Microsoft at
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/net.mspx,
perhaps you should let them know that their info is incorrect.
Click to expand...

I read the link. May I suggest that you sit in some .Net classes and learn
the facts. Or do you just go by what you read and cannot think or be shown
what's outside the box. You do know the Web Services are SOAP/XML services
don't you?
Again, this is entirely from the Microsoft website at
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/net.mspx.
Click to expand...

I don't care what the link is talking about. I am sitting in the fox hole
and on the front lines with this stuff. ;-) What the officers are talking
about and what the reality is for the Sgt. or Buck Private sitting in the
fox hole are two different things.

What's does a .Net Service/NT Service have to do with the Web? What does a
..Net Console or Command application have to do with the Web? What does a
..Net desktop application have to do with the Web. However, they all can be
developed to consume a Web service if need be? But in most cases, they are
in communations with things in an LAN envrionment over TCP with an
application server or other servers like SQL Server or a COM+ server on the
LAN that have nothing to do with HTTP.

Want to bet a pint on it?
Click to expand...

Sure we can, but you nor I will be around to drink it. ;-)

And you can always dream about how you would like to see it. But a reality
check may be in order here.
Perhpas he should visit
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/net.mspx,
before filling your head with ideas that are opposite those published by
Microsoft
Click to expand...

I suggest that you somehow find your way to a fox hole and get on the real
firing line, instead of you trying to be a make believe soldier, nothing
against you personally. But thats's what you now seem to be to me is a make
believe soldier, and you can't think out side the box.

But again, I have nothing against you personally. It's just observation
here. Man, I have been doing this since 1971 and started programming in
1980. Do you think I went by some advertisement that some vendor put out as
a selling point over the years, to be around doing this for this long? But I
want to make it clear that I have nothing against you.
Thanks, I will try and dig up a copy.


This too shall end.
Click to expand...

Linux is not going dominate the Web Server market like they did in the past.
It's as simple as that.
 
jim said:
It certianly is much easier to write with the framework as much of the
coding has already been done for you. But, the UI still starts and runs
slower in the apps that I have written to mirror my C++ and VB6 apps on
the desktop.

.Net seems much more suited to web applications where desktop speed is not
required or expected.
Click to expand...

Are you aware of any of the infoemtion in the links?

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms998547.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/06/02/CLRInsideOut/default.aspx
 
I agree. No need to rewrite apps just to rewrite them. But what about new
desktop apps for Windows? Can you name *any* applictions that do
significant work (i.e. that are data or process intensive) that use .Net -
even better one that's written by Microsoft? Can you name any that perform
as quickly or as stable as their C++\VB6 predecessors?
Click to expand...

Yes, check this one and try to do it in VB6 ! :-)

http://www.datatime.eu/download.aspx
DataTime Reporting Solution

-P
 
You do know that there is C++ in NET that can use the .Net Framework/Managed
code or not use the .NetFramewotk period/Unmanaged Code? If you want speed
for a process intensive application, one is going to use C++ .NET
Unmanaged. Life INSURANCE Actuary application written by an Actuary
application programmer is using C++ .Net Unmanaged I suspect to crunch the
numbers, if .NET is the directive in the company..

Do you honestly think that MS is the only one that's producing applications
that are process intensive that need speed that are using .Net?

And about VB6, which I have nothing against VB6 becase I used it for some
years professionally, VB6 is dead for new projects/applications in today's
environment. If there is any work out there for VB6, it's maintenance only
for existing legacy applications, and they are not paying well for old dead
technology experience.

You got to know when to hold the cards in the hand or fold the cards in the
hand you're playing. ;-)
 
There are areas where .NET beats both, more so with VB6 than C++, but COM is
fairly well embedded into Windows and C++ allows you to write using a native
approach.

But, speed is not everything. There are certainly cases where perf is the
number one issue, but not always.

I have not spent a huge amount of time in Windows UIs, so .NET may very well
suck there. At a previous assignment, we wrote an ETL program that ripped
through GBs of data per day, which smoked the old Oracle stored procedure
method. I did not test against C or C++, however.

Part of getting perf out of .NET is learning to get a bit deeper into the
bowels of .NET. It can also help to stick in the binary world as much as
possible, rather than the Unicode string world, where so much of .NET
sticks. You also have to really watch how you are setting up strings, as
..NET is not very forgiving if you get into concatenation, even cases where
you are concatenating in the Append method of a StringBuilder.

None of what I am talking about is UI. Perhaps poking farther into GDI+ will
help in this respect.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

*************************************************
| Think outside the box!
|
*************************************************
 
Back
Top