Any Oracle victims here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rob R. Ainscough
  • Start date Start date
technician (such as a developer) makes, not country of origin. Therefore,
any company that outsources to another country to find cheaper technical
help is going to get poorer quality technical help.

You fail to take into account standard of living... It is not dictated
alone by wages. People might get along like a millionnaire in their country
with wages one third of those in the USA...

I have seen foreign people that are scary-smart in their field that would
whip any American's knowledge in a second. They remain in their country
because they like living there, plain and simple.

Also, Oracle has been outsourcing to India for a long time. Depending on
what time you call for support, the other person on the other end of the
phone line might be in a different continent. When their shift ends, the
support tickets and the phone calls go to the next place. I've used their
support and they have the most knowledgeable people I have met through tech
support.

Anyway, just assuming that people that are paid less, specially in other
countries, must know less is naive at best. You might be in for a surprise
one of these days.
I wear Rockport shoes. They cost twice as much as other shoes, but last 4
times as long. Do the math.

Your examples along this line are not that good... What if I don't like the
shoes? No matter how much math I do, it ain't gonna change the shoe for my
taste...
There is no such thing as a free lunch. You get what you pay for.

Hmm, so looking at things simplistically as you do, if I spend USD $90,000
for a Hummer, I get better mileage than a USD $25,000 Toyota Prius?

Of course it is not a simple as that... You could say, for example that
other countries that have less lawsuits and stupid laws have a big edge over
the USA in terms of cost of labor... India and China are fast sneaking up
on our complacent butts... We think we have something built-in that makes
us superior and un-catchable, but we do not... And our government aint
helpin'...
 
You fail to take into account standard of living... It is not dictated
alone by wages. People might get along like a millionnaire in their
country with wages one third of those in the USA...

I didn't fail to take anything into account. You should read my other
responses.
I have seen foreign people that are scary-smart in their field that would
whip any American's knowledge in a second. They remain in their country
because they like living there, plain and simple.

Well, there's some validity to that thought. For example, I live on the east
coast of the U.S. I could move to Redmond and get a job with Microsoft, and
make a good bit more for the same work. But I would be too far from my
family, and choose not to. On the other hand, I moved here to make more
money than I did living in Alabama, and it is not far from any of my family.

However, I believe that statistically this is not the case. People from
Mexico, for example, are coming into the U.S. at an incredible rate. If I
lived in a 3rd-world country, I believe I would be much more motivated to
pull up stakes and go to a more wealthy country. This is, of course, not
something I can prove, but simply my intuition.

However, this is not a debate about "America" or Americans. This is a debate
about economics. People are the same everywhere. And there are just as many
smart people everywhere, including America. As to where the smartest people
live, I would imagine that they are scattered all over the world.
Also, Oracle has been outsourcing to India for a long time. Depending on
what time you call for support, the other person on the other end of the
phone line might be in a different continent. When their shift ends, the
support tickets and the phone calls go to the next place. I've used their
support and they have the most knowledgeable people I have met through
tech support.

So, why is Oracle failing to compete?
Your examples along this line are not that good... What if I don't like
the shoes? No matter how much math I do, it ain't gonna change the shoe
for my taste...

That's just silly. It's called an "analogy." Look up "analogy" in the
dictionary. It pays to increase your word power. Here, I'll make it easy for
you: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=analogy
Hmm, so looking at things simplistically as you do, if I spend USD $90,000
for a Hummer, I get better mileage than a USD $25,000 Toyota Prius?

Who's being simplistic? This analogy sucks. First, the cost of a vehicle is
determined by quite a number of factors, and mileage is *not* one of them.
The cost of a vehicle is determined by the size of the vehicle, the quality
of the design, the number and kind of features, and the market (supply and
demand). A Hummer and a Toyota Prius are vehicles that fall into 2
completely different categories. When I was in the military, I drove a few
Hummers. They are designed as both on- and off-road vehicles, with swappable
2- and 4-wheel drive, a high ground clearance combined with a relatively low
center of gravity, a powerful diesel engine, and can drive over a 3-foot
vertical wall. In other words, they are utility vehicles, like a truck. A
Toyota Prius is simply a passenger car. The difference in price is
determined by the factors I listed above, for which the 2 vehicles have
completely different specs.

As a side note, you may be interested to know that I own a Toyota Matrix.
Anyone that drives an SUV and uses it as simply a passenger vehicle is
irresponsible and stupid. I drive 20 miles to work every day in heavy
traffic. I will save thousands of dollars a year in fuel as a result.
However, note that I did not buy a Toyota Matrix because it is cheap
(although it is reasonably priced). I bought it because when compared to
*similarly-priced* American cars, it delivers the best quality. It uses less
gas, performs better, and lasts longer. In other words, I didn't spend less
money; I researched and got the best value *for* the same amount of money.
BTW, almost all Toyotas sold in America are manufactured in America. How's
that for outsourcing?

Perhaps I should have said "All other things being equal, you get what you
pay for." It's implied, and generally not stated as such, but that's what it
means.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
We got a sick zebra a hat,
you ultimate tuna.
 
I didn't fail to take anything into account. You should read my other
responses.

Hehe! I will trust you on this one... but people who say "yes, I have
taken absolutely everything into account" about anything warrant some
doubt...
However, I believe that statistically this is not the case. People from
Mexico, for example, are coming into the U.S. at an incredible rate.

I'll spare you the immigration debate, but...
If I lived in a 3rd-world country, I believe I would be much more
motivated to pull up stakes and go to a more wealthy country. This is, of
course, not something I can prove, but simply my intuition.

But what if you were in that 3rd world country and could suddenly earn twice
or even three times as much? Then you would have a very strong case to stay
and avoid being treated like a subhuman in another, more prosperous country.
So, why is Oracle failing to compete?

They are? hmm.... My guess is that you probably don't work with huge
databases where few other DBs cut it.
That's just silly. It's called an "analogy." Look up "analogy" in the
dictionary. It pays to increase your word power. Here, I'll make it easy
for you: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=analogy

It's not an issue of word power, it's one of faulty reasoning.
Who's being simplistic? This analogy sucks. First, the cost of a vehicle
is determined by quite a number of factors, and mileage is *not* one of
them.

Ah so now it's much more complex than even your original "analogies"? Hehe!
Whetever... I ain't wasting more time on this dumb debate.
 
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