Any freeware Basic programming languages?

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Latter
  • Start date Start date
It's the 'reasonable care' bit that worries me - I'm having horrendous
problems trying to install ANY language, and if I'm ever successful,
God knows what's gonna happen then..
Click to expand...

Don't panic. It's hard to accidentally trash a PC (except with coffee).

Gerry Quinn
 
John Latter said:
I must say, however, that I'm absolutely fed up of trying to get ANY
of the languages installed on my machine!
Click to expand...

What you need is a file manager, the explorer built into windows is
one alternative, but many prefer a two-pane file manager, such as
2xexplorer, turbo navigator, etc..

Get anyone of those and learn to use it, find out how files are
organised on your hard disk(s).
Learn how to move and copy files between directories (folders).
Learn how to create and delete folders as you need them.

Then you can get back to learning to program.


For rapidq there is no installation needed. Just put rc.exe and the
other files in a folder you have created for the purpose. The default
interface program (the programming environment) rapidq.exe is old but
works.

The problem is that many of the example files use fixed paths to its
resource files so you have to remove the path to these resources and
put them in the same folder as the system files to compile the
program.

For example if you read in a program at the beginning
$RESOURCE bmpLeft As "C:\rqbeta\myFiles\COMPTE\RES\left.bmp"
you have to remove the path to this bmp file, because you probably do
not work in that folder. Use no path and put the bmp file in the same
file as the compiler and the program and it will compile.

"C:\rqbeta\myFiles\COMPTE\RES\left.bmp" becomes
"left.bmp"

Apart from that there should not be any problems.

Make sure the include files in the .bas file you are trying to compile
are present in the dir of the compiler.
Start with a simple program to get it working.

There are loads of shell programs for the compiler, like rapidq.exe
but different. There are also several graphical design programs.
rapidq.exe is an old combined shell program and graphical designer
program.

Another option is to use a text editor to edit the programs and call
the compiler from the editor.
There are language files for many popular editors available, with
coloring of the commands, variables, etc..

If you have problems ask about it in the yahoo mailing list.

I still think rapidq is the easiest programming language to learn, and
especially for a beginner like you.

Good luck whatever language you choose.
 
John, I have just installed and uninstalled XBasic several times to try
to
duplicate your problem, but cannot. When I run the self-installer, it
installs fine, and does create xbvars.bat and xb.ini in my system directory,
in my case called c:\winnt.
Questions
[1] Did you search your hard disk for files of the form xb* ?
[2] Are you using the original Windows 95 i.e. W95A ?
[3] Did you download the latest version of XB - version 6.2.3 ?

If the answers are [1] yes, xbvars.bat and xb.ini not found [2] No [3] Yes,
I cannot think what the problem is.
Click to expand...
Thankyou for the info Vic but before I do anything else I'm gonna take
Dude's advice and spend some time reading up on windows. I can see I'm
coming at this from the wrong angle and I guess I thought installing a
language would be as straightforward as something like adaware where
its 'self-contained' (if you see what I mean).
Click to expand...


Programming is an ocean at which a gnat may sip, and an elephant may bathe,
to paraphrase a quote about chess. Some people think once they have learnt
to write a Hello,World programme in C , they are programmers. Not so. They
are only coders, not programmers. A builder is not an architect. Someone who
translates the works of Shakespeare into Russian does not merit the same
respect we give Shakespeare. If Djikstra was alive today, he would say the
same about today's obsession with C as a first computer language as he once
said about the trend to teach old-fashioned BASIC as a first language.


To answer your specific questions: I didn't do any wildcard search and
I do have the latest version.
Click to expand...

If you had done a wildcard search, it would have found xbvars.bat. Besides,
you don't even need xbvars.bat. Many users never bother compiling their XB
programmes at all. The PDE runs at about 60% of the speed of compiled code,
so there is little need to compile to standalone on today's fast PCs.


When I come back to this though, I'm
unsure what you mean by the reference to Windows 95? (I got XP)
Click to expand...

The original version of W95 had a few quirks.


I'm determine to get into programming though so I can't take up
cricket or croquet etc..
Click to expand...

BCX or XBasic would be good choices. If you later mean to change to C on
Windows only, BCX might be better. Otherwise, XB will do nearly everything
you want.


Vic
 
John said:
...if I can't do programmining then the German half of me is
gonna have to find something useful to do like Empire building
or something :)
Click to expand...

Hmmm... Perhaps we should all be sure to help this guy as much
as we can! ;-)
 
What you need is a file manager, the explorer built into windows is
one alternative, but many prefer a two-pane file manager, such as
2xexplorer, turbo navigator, etc..

Get anyone of those and learn to use it, find out how files are
organised on your hard disk(s).
Learn how to move and copy files between directories (folders).
Learn how to create and delete folders as you need them.

Then you can get back to learning to program.


For rapidq there is no installation needed. Just put rc.exe and the
other files in a folder you have created for the purpose. The default
interface program (the programming environment) rapidq.exe is old but
works.

The problem is that many of the example files use fixed paths to its
resource files so you have to remove the path to these resources and
put them in the same folder as the system files to compile the
program.

For example if you read in a program at the beginning
$RESOURCE bmpLeft As "C:\rqbeta\myFiles\COMPTE\RES\left.bmp"
you have to remove the path to this bmp file, because you probably do
not work in that folder. Use no path and put the bmp file in the same
file as the compiler and the program and it will compile.

"C:\rqbeta\myFiles\COMPTE\RES\left.bmp" becomes
"left.bmp"

Apart from that there should not be any problems.

Make sure the include files in the .bas file you are trying to compile
are present in the dir of the compiler.
Start with a simple program to get it working.

There are loads of shell programs for the compiler, like rapidq.exe
but different. There are also several graphical design programs.
rapidq.exe is an old combined shell program and graphical designer
program.

Another option is to use a text editor to edit the programs and call
the compiler from the editor.
There are language files for many popular editors available, with
coloring of the commands, variables, etc..

If you have problems ask about it in the yahoo mailing list.

I still think rapidq is the easiest programming language to learn, and
especially for a beginner like you.

Good luck whatever language you choose.
Click to expand...

Hi Roger,

Something from the last few days must have stuck because I understood
much of what you said. One area that I don't understand, however, is
calling the compiler from an editor.

I've downloaded a few languages and as part of a BCX package I got
ConTEXT editor but a quick glance doesn't show how to add/call a
compiler other than the ones already available. The same applies to
SciTE which was recommended for Borland C++.

Are you saying I could find a 'language file' for RapidQ and then add
it to either of these editors ('somehow') or should I look for another
editor? (which do you use by the way?

I've quickly learned that I've been trying to run before I can walk
and had decided to learn more about Windows before doing any
programming. I'm still going to TRY and learn more about the system -
for example, what are "environmental variables" and why to they have
to be modified when a compiler is installed, what is the relationship
between between DOS and Windows and what is DOS anyway?
If you know of any online tutorials that will give an insight into the
structure of Windows then I would be very grateful.

Having said that, I still like the idea of doing some actual
programming at the same time and learn about the system from that
direction too. I've just re-read some of your earlier posts and I'm
going to download RapidQ and see how I get on - I must admit, however,
that because the files need updating, I'm not sure I'll know what to
ask for when I post to the Yahoo group as you suggested. But I'll give
it a try!

John
--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
John said:
...what are "environmental variables" and why to they have
to be modified when a compiler is installed, what is the
relationship between between DOS and Windows and what is
DOS anyway?
Click to expand...

DOS == Disk Operating System. Folks who've been in the business
a long time would prefer folks say "MS-DOS", because there have
been other "DOS"es (nearly all of them vastly superior).

MS-DOS (and any Operating System) is the "other" of the two basic
types of software: User Applications is the first (or second
depending on your point of view). An Operating System is responsible
for managing the machine, the resources, interacting with the user
and so on. Simply, it "operates" your "system".

Most early versions of Windows were just pretty wrappers around
MS-DOS. They just made it "easier" for the (average) user to
use the computer. Compare the use of the console window to the
point-and-click of Windows proper. MS-DOS was that console window
and nothing else. The most recent versions of Windows are true
OSes, not pretty wrappers. In Windows XP and Windows 2000, the
"DOS console" is actually an emulation of old MS-DOS.

(Sidebar: point-and-click is all very well and good for average
computer use, but it lacks the raw power of the commandline.
Many old power-user hands call windows type systems WIMP systems:
Windows/Icons/Menus/Pointer. Their more P/C name is GUI: Graphical
User Interface.]

Most computer systems have an "environment" in which the user
operates. This environment consists of whatever the system finds
important. Many systems have "variables" in that environment.
Typically the user can modify and add to these. For example,
you've been modifying the PATH variable. That variable contains
a list of directories to look in for programs when you type an
*unqualified* program name. Unqualified means no path, just the
program name:

bcc ; unqualified--system must search
C:\Borland\bin\bcc ; tells the system where to look

When you type the first, the system looks in all the directories
named in PATH for a match. Programs can also use environmental
variables. As a programmer, you can use them in your programs.
They are a typical way of doing user configuration (although in
Windows it is recommended you use the Windows Registry).
 
I've been messing with PCs since they came out, so any tutorials
I knew of would be ancient history I'm afraid.

I will say that Charles Petzold's book, PROGRAMMING WINDOWS, 5th
Edition is an incredibly valuable resource for a Windows programmer.
He doesn't go much into what's inside Windows, but he sure will
tell you how to program for Windows!

But a visit to your local mega-bookstore will show you shelves full
of stuff. Go when you have some time and spend it leafing through
stuff until you find some that "speak" to you.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I live in a micro-town but we do have one bookstore, and
I should have thought of the Library myself (normally its not far from
my mind - "I wonder how much the overdue charge is gonna be this
time")
--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
John Latter said:
Something from the last few days must have stuck because I understood
much of what you said. One area that I don't understand, however, is
calling the compiler from an editor.
Click to expand...

This is not importat for a beginner actually, you should start by
using the editor/graphics designer delivered with the programming
language, that is the easy way to start.

In the case of rapidq this means using rapidq.exe as the program you
use to edit and change programs, and from there you can compile the
programs.

Start with rapidq.exe and let this talk about other editors wait until
you know how to work with the editor in the program language.

I've quickly learned that I've been trying to run before I can walk
and had decided to learn more about Windows before doing any
programming. I'm still going to TRY and learn more about the system -
for example, what are "environmental variables" and why to they have
to be modified when a compiler is installed, what is the relationship
Click to expand...

Environment variables are not used for rapidq, as far as I know, so
there is no need to learn this if you use rapidq.
going to download RapidQ and see how I get on - I must admit, however,
that because the files need updating,
Click to expand...

There is no need to update anything to start using the language.
That is only necessary later if you want to make your programs faster
and smaller. So this is nothing you have to think about to begin with.
 
John said:
I do have another question though. After I've familiarized myself
enough I want to write a plugin for my Spam Filter. If I use BCX to
produce a C output can I still configure the C file if it doesn't
quite match the format the Spam Program requires? (with regard to
the passing of parameters and stuff)
Click to expand...

No, you usually need to get that stuff exactly right. Oh, wait, do
you mean tweak it so that it DOES match them? Yes, you'll HAVE to
do that, I imagine.
 
No, you usually need to get that stuff exactly right. Oh, wait, do
you mean tweak it so that it DOES match them? Yes, you'll HAVE to
do that, I imagine.
Click to expand...

Hi Dude,

Yes, tweaking it is what I meant - I was just trying to think ahead
(and I'm quite surprised it turned out to be a half-way sensible
question!)

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
He lies!
John 'faints' ---> THUD!
John Latter
Click to expand...

John, you have had a bad start. Just follow the step-by-step instructions
below to write and run your first XBasic programme.

[1] Run XB ( from Start menu or icon) - 2 windows should pop up - the input
, or Program Development Environment window, and the output window, or
Console.

[2] Click on the New Program icon , top left , just below menu, or select
File | New from menu

[3] Click the program button (from the 4 choices given in the popup). The
following should appear
' ##### Entry () #####
' Programs contain:
' 1. A PROLOG with type/function/constant declarations.
' 2. This Entry() function where execution begins.
' 3. Zero or more additional functions.
FUNCTION Entry ()


END FUNCTION

[4] Type or copy-and-paste the following onto the line between FUNCTION and
END FUNCTION

PRINT "Hello, World - this is John"

[5] You have a programme, ready to run.

[6] Click the start icon ( ! ) or select Run | Start from the file menu or
simply press F1 to run your programme

[7] Your output should appear in the output, or console, window.

[8] Done. - and the rest of XB is even easier. :-)

Vic
Click to expand...

Thankyou Vic - I was able to install BCX yesterday and now that I've
actually got one language I could use I'll be able to abandon
Berserker Mode and take a more relaxed look at things!

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
On 31 Jul 2003 06:39:38 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:
[snip]
A ref I have says Pascal came out in the early '70s. Delphi isn't even
mentioned; the book was published in 1992.
Click to expand...


From Marco Cantù, Essential Pascal (freely downloadable as pdf at
http://www.marcocantu.com/epascal/default.htm):

"After 9 versions of Turbo and Borland Pascal compilers, which gradually
extended the language into the OOP realm, Borland released Delphi in 1995,
turning Pascal into a visual programming language.
[...]
Click to expand...

Thanks IMO It is good to have a rough idea when each major programming
language came out even if one does not use it. I really though Delphi was
sooner than that. {shrugs shoulders}
Someday I may take another stab at C++ or Delphi with C++ have the much
better odds. I have commercial RAD IDE(*1) compilers for both.
With Kylix, Borland made a further step and opened to Pascal/Delphi
programmers the Linux operating system (even if only in its Intel-based
incarnation)."
Click to expand...

Yes Kylix is nice from what I have seen. If I did not misread it which
is definitely possible, Kylix for Linux will handle both C++ and Delphi.
Either way, it is a RAD IDE.
AFAIK Delphi is not free: there was a Delphi 6 Personal ed. that was free
for personal use, but it isn't anymore available at Borland site. Delphi 7
is trialware (30 days).
Instead I've read that Kylix is free (you lucky Linux users!)
Click to expand...

The one personal version for Linux is free right now. It may or may not
stay that way for long. The one Linux rag (Linux Journal ) I read
frequently gave the impression that the personal version would always be
free.


--------------------------------------
1: RAD IDE = Rapid Application Development Intergrated Design Environment
or something darn close. It has been a bit since I last read what it stands
for exactly.
*****************************************************************************
Lefse is really good grub..."Jeg Elsker Lefse! I Love Lefse!" sums it up well
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dome/3918/index.html
 
John Latter said:
John: I used to use Microsoft's QBasic in W95. I haven't tried it in XP but
it might work OK. As far as I can remember it needs some runfiles but it has
a built-in compiler. A search on All-the-Web for qb45.zip produced 17 FTP
download sites.
http://www.alltheweb.com

===

Frank Bohan
¶ Onion rings make far less noise than a telephone.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the info Frank!

If anyone else is interested a copy of the zip file is apparently
available at a Yahoo QBasic Group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qbertsqbasiccorner/message/180

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thankyou for the info Frank!

If anyone else is interested a copy of the zip file is apparently
available at a Yahoo QBasic Group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qbertsqbasiccorner/message/180
Click to expand...

I still write mixed language programs using qb 4.5 and assembler since
I enjoy using the old tools, and the 16 bit programs run fine in
Windows. I've got a excellent qb 4.5 reference book that I downloaded
some time ago. It was a free thing that had been printed in a PC
magazine. I was directed to it by the author in a DOS programming n.g.
I have no idea where to d/l it from anymore, but it zips to about 1.5
meg. Anyone interested can let me know and I'll send it via email. My
addy is artnpeg at epix dot net

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
Ceg said:
Ethan does have some good references for QB. I remember back when he first
put those out. I really liked playing around with his routines for dbase
type files.
Click to expand...

Some QB4.5 sites I have bookmarked are:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5967/downtut.htm
http://eagleperch.net/ (QB7.1 available at this site)
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/qbcentral/

The QB4.5 program can be downloaded (including runfiles) from:
ftp://ftp.cyf-kr.edu.pl/pub/mirror/WinSite/win95/programr/Qb45.zip

===

Frank Bohan
¶ Veni, Vidi, Visa - I came, I saw, I did a little shopping.
 
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