amd vs. intel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tanya
  • Start date Start date
When you say enabled did you install the CnQ software which comes with the
mbrd? I have it "working" in my MSI K8N Neo2 Plat.but I left it disabled
in BIOS Setup and use the software to turn it on or off as I want.

After 4 months I'm still not 100% confident in it though which is why I
quoted working.:-) Once in that time it randomly and silently turned on
the MSI "Dynamic Overclocking" and hung the system hard, just after I
realized why things were acting weird and the fans were oscillating between
high & low speeds. Other times it seems to run at a lower reported temp
and fan speed for no apparent reason.

IOW I'm not 100% confident in the MSI software, which they call
CoreCenter... just like I'm always suspicious of reported temperature
readings... which CoreCenter obviously relies on. I see that AMD
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_9706,00.html
has a new driver from 12/2004 so possibly that'd help things work better...
and maybe I'll give the AMD software a try but it's dated 9/2003 and says
it's a "Demo".
Click to expand...

I've tried every BIOS and just about every version of AMD's 64 CPU
driver with no success on the chaintech. Last I looked on AMD's site
when I selected a 754 board w/CnQ this VNF3-250 wasn't listed, only when
I don't select CnQ did it show up in AMD's recommended mobo list.

I built 3 MSI K8T/AMD 64's a year ago and CnQ works fine on those.
CoreCenter isn't really needed if you have a AMD stock fan since those
have a thermal sensor built in and will change speed on the fly (3k - 6k
rpm). AFAICT, corecenter doesn't control CnQ , it just changes fan speed
and lets you do some overclocking.

btw, if you turn CnQ off in the BIOS I don't see how you can turn enable
it Windows.

Ed
 
I've tried every BIOS and just about every version of AMD's 64 CPU
driver with no success on the chaintech. Last I looked on AMD's site
when I selected a 754 board w/CnQ this VNF3-250 wasn't listed, only when
I don't select CnQ did it show up in AMD's recommended mobo list.

I built 3 MSI K8T/AMD 64's a year ago and CnQ works fine on those.
CoreCenter isn't really needed if you have a AMD stock fan since those
have a thermal sensor built in and will change speed on the fly (3k - 6k
rpm). AFAICT, corecenter doesn't control CnQ , it just changes fan speed
and lets you do some overclocking.
Click to expand...

The fan on my A64 3500+(90nm) varies between 2K and 3.3Krpm and I think I'd
rather have it controlled by die temp than airflow.
btw, if you turn CnQ off in the BIOS I don't see how you can turn enable
it Windows.
Click to expand...

Uhh, that's what Corecenter is for - to turn CnQ on and off... as well as
to control voltages and Dynamic Overclocking. I also want to see what's
going on when CnQ is enabled so CoreCenter shows fan speeds and temps.
 
hello George,

George said:
It's not an "issue" unless you want dual video cards and want to play
complex games at high(est) frame rates.
Click to expand...

there is no way that i want / need 2 video cards (i would actually like onBoard
video (but the only board for s939 with onBoard video is an msi microATX (i heard
that micros are worse at heat dissipation, difficult to put a lot of cards in,
difficult to work with etc.) -- unfortunately b/c i like the board))
It soon will be available for P4 -
Intel wants it so much that they agreed terms to license the P4 FSB
technology to nVidia. Take this as a sign that Intel is *worried* - they
have lost a *big* portion of the gaming market to Athlon64.

I don't understand how you got diverted into this SLI thingy, nor why it
would be of the slightest interest to you... given you are trying to save a
few $$ on the CPU. SLI is a high-end (expensive) feature for the err,
"ultimate" gaming experience. It is currently available for some Athlon64
mbrds and is planned to be available for upcoming P4 mbrds with the new
nVidia chipset.
Click to expand...

the diversion is due to the fact that there are quite a few boards with sli (i'd
take an sli board IF it had a fair number of pci slots..... (they don't and the
pci-e x4 etc. are not used by today's components.))
There are many Athlon64 s939 mbrds without SLI so just don't look at SLI as
in your list of possibilities for A64. Personally I've had good luck with
MSI mbrds recently (used to buy Asus exclusively) and they have several A64
mbrds based on the nForce4 and ATI Radeon Xpress 200 chipsets. Chaintech
also has a nice nForce4 mbrd for a reasonable price - I've no experience
with it or Chaintech but Tony Hill has tried a Chaintech mbrd and liked it.
Click to expand...

do you know of soltek?
fwiw i will post the links for the msi and the soltek...although i am told that
these companies are not in the main stream (perhaps msi is)
MSI "RS480M2-IL" ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939
CPU -RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-485&depa=0

SOLTEK "SL-K8TPro-939" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU
-RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-180-064&depa=0


thank you,
sincerely
Tanya
 
hi and thank you Rob,

Rob said:
Tanya said:
George Macdonald wrote:

hello George,
[...below...]

George Macdonald wrote:


hi,

MAGGOT VOMIT wrote:


I am building my first machine and decided to go with the Athlon64
3000+ and the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nforce4 MoBo and ordered it last
week and installed them both last night. A friend had some Arctic
Silver5 and so I removed the stock Thermal Paste and used the AS5.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

it seems that every board which looks good has the sli...i do NOT need 2 video

PCI-E means "PCI Express". It is intended to replace the AGP,
PCI, and PCI-X buses that motherboards currently use.
Click to expand...

but agp is still quite common?
A PCI-E bus between devices, such as between the chipset and the
PCI-E slots on the motherboard, can have 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32
"lanes". If you double the number of lanes, you double the rate
at which the bus can transfer data.
Click to expand...

thanks for explaining this -- i understand now...
16 lane PCI-E slots are the new standard for video cards.

x2 and x4 would refer to 2 and 4 lane PCI-E slots. They could be
used for high-bandwidth devices like RAID controllers, Gigabit
network cards, video-capture cards, and so on.

x1 slots would be sufficient for devices that need less
bandwidth, such as modems, sound cards, low-end disk controllers,
low-end network cards, additional USB ports, etc.

Other than video cards there are so far very few PCI-E devices
out there. The first RAID controllers are just starting to be
marketed and supposedly gigabit NICs are not far behind.
Click to expand...

i am not trying to build for the far future; just something that's upgradeable to
some extent...

thanks
sincerely
Tanya
 
hi George,
sorry -- i just read this post -- and see that you mention the microATX msi (i like
it)
(i posted its Web site as well as a soltek board which has high reviews (as does
the msi) on the other post)

George said:
Oh no, there are several non-SLI mbrds available - the MSI ATI mbrd also
has integrated graphics, is micro-ATX form factor and has 3 PCI slots.
There are some mfrs, possibly Asus, who have tried to capitalize on the SLI
moniker *and* price, by introducing SLI mbrds first. MSI even has a
barebones nForce4 mbrd Neo4-F for $92. at newEgg which has 4xPCI slots, one
of which also accomodates some special interface for Wi-Fi cards.
Click to expand...

i haven't seen that one yet... is the fact that the msi with onboard video is micro
a problem? for ex: this is a repeat -- heard that they don't get rid of heat well;
card crowding; difficult to work with and don't know whether microATX cases are
abundant or VERY EXPEN$IVE
(however it has great reviews)
PCI-E is the new inter-connect which will eventually replace PCI and
replaces AGP for video interface - PCI-E is a serial interface which comes
in several "lane" widths, x16, x4 & x1 currently, according to bandwidth
requirements. Currently the x16 is the video which has a max bandwidth
which is ~2x that of AGP 8x, x4 is for high bandwidth accessory cards, like
Gbit networking, likely sound cards and x1 is for lower speed devices. The
different physical slot widths look like a nightmare about to happen to me
and it's not quite clear what is going to be desirable in mbrd slot widths
and counts yet; in that respect I see there are PCI-E cards which fit in a
x4 slot but only use two of its lanes so possibly x2 slots will not be
common... we'll see.
Click to expand...

thanks for the explanation -- it is clear!

thanks,
sincerely
Tanya
 
hi Tony,
thanks for replying

Tony said:
Ahh, I missed that 520 chip. The 'J' is just the second evaluation of
the Prescott core and doesn't change performance one way or the other.
The 'J' chips add a couple of new power saving features and support
for marking data as non-executable ("NX bit" in AMD lingo, "Execute
Disable Bit" in Intel lingo and "Data Execution Prevention" if you're
talking to Microsoft... all the same thing, just the three companies
can't agree on a name).

This non-executable data bit is a nifty little feature enabled in
WinXP SP2 and some modern versions of Linux that separates out your
data from your executable code. This is done to help prevent one of
the most common sources of hacks and security exploits. While it's no
replacement for a good firewall, it does provide a small extra layer
of defense with no real drawbacks.
Click to expand...

thanks for explaining this!
In any case, the long story short is that the 520 and 520J are fairly
comparable, though the 520J is a slightly more desirable chip. If
there is a big price advantage with sticking to the 520, then stick
with it. If the prices are about the same, the 520J is a better
choice IMO. Looking at www.newegg.com suggests that the point is kind
of moot since they don't seem to carry the 520J!
Click to expand...

at the place where i am buying, there's a fair bit of difference btwn the 2...
And one would hope that they know what they're talking about!
Click to expand...

one should hope so!

thanks very much again!
sincerely
Tanya
 
hi George,
sorry -- i just read this post -- and see that you mention the microATX msi (i like
it)
(i posted its Web site as well as a soltek board which has high reviews (as does
the msi) on the other post)



i haven't seen that one yet... is the fact that the msi with onboard video is micro
a problem? for ex: this is a repeat -- heard that they don't get rid of heat well;
card crowding; difficult to work with and don't know whether microATX cases are
abundant or VERY EXPEN$IVE
(however it has great reviews)
Click to expand...

I'm no expert on microATX - I've used neither case nor mbrd from factor so
I don;t know much about cooling issues. From others' experiences though,
I'd expect to put a microATX mbrd in a ATX case without problems. I just
threw out the MSI ATI mbrd as an economical route to s939 for someone who
doesn't care about graphics performance... but might want to upgrade in
future.
 
hello George,

George Macdonald wrote:

do you know of soltek?
fwiw i will post the links for the msi and the soltek...although i am told that
these companies are not in the main stream (perhaps msi is)
MSI "RS480M2-IL" ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939
CPU -RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-485&depa=0

SOLTEK "SL-K8TPro-939" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU
-RETAIL
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-180-064&depa=0
Click to expand...

I've no experience with Soltek - possibly someone else can comment. I've
used several MSI mbrds -- they're my current choice -- and not had any
problems... though you *can* get a dud from any mfr. While possibly not in
the same category as Asus, MSI is what I'd call a mainstream supplier...
I've found their BIOS update practices every bit as good as Asus.
 
I'm no expert on microATX - I've used neither case nor mbrd from factor so
I don;t know much about cooling issues. From others' experiences though,
I'd expect to put a microATX mbrd in a ATX case without problems.
Click to expand...

I built a system for a friend with a uATX board and an ATX case. No
problems at all. The uATX boards are simply short a couple of PCI slots.
No biggie.
 
I built a system for a friend with a uATX board and an ATX case. No
problems at all. The uATX boards are simply short a couple of PCI slots.
No biggie.
Click to expand...

You know, I have always bought mbrds with 5 or 6 PCI slots and never used
more than one (maybe 2 in the sound card days). With everything on the
mbrd those days, including 2 x 1Gbit network interfaces on my recent A64
system, I'm beginning to think it's just a waste.

I just realized the MSI RS480M2 has no serial port - how *could* they??
 
You know, I have always bought mbrds with 5 or 6 PCI slots and never used
more than one (maybe 2 in the sound card days). With everything on the
mbrd those days, including 2 x 1Gbit network interfaces on my recent A64
system, I'm beginning to think it's just a waste.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Though the slots on my Tyan 1598C2 are all full and had
to kick out an old graphics card that I wasn't using. If needed (it may
be) I could get an AGP graphics card. It's five years old though. My
2875 has only two cards in it, an AGP graphics card and a dual SCSI that
doesn't seem to want to work. The rest of the slots are empty because
everything is on the motherboard.
I just realized the MSI RS480M2 has no serial port - how *could* they??
Click to expand...

What?! Where whould I plug in the CP-290? ;-)
 
the msi matx has 3 pci slots... a pci-e x16... (i need 1 pci for a modem...)
(actually the matx cases are no more $)
i guess there're enough drive bays -- i haven't looked into cases very much <yet>
Click to expand...

Look seriously at the Antec cases. The "silencer" is getting great
reviews by the folks here (I didn't listen and bought the SLK1040).
 
i've heard several places that there're problems with nforce4...

the cases are no more $ (and aside from the 1 comment re: micro-mbs, there are many +'ve
reviews (plus it is relatively cheap:)
I'm no expert on microATX - I've used neither case nor mbrd from factor so
I don;t know much about cooling issues. From others' experiences though,
I'd expect to put a microATX mbrd in a ATX case without problems. I just
threw out the MSI ATI mbrd as an economical route to s939 for someone who
doesn't care about graphics performance... but might want to upgrade in
future.
Click to expand...

i guess the radeon 200 is not too great however don't see a problem with a future video
card upgrade...
(plus reading about video cards and what an avg user would need vs. a serious gamer)
thanks!
sincerely,
Tanya
 
keith said:
I built a system for a friend with a uATX board and an ATX case. No
problems at all. The uATX boards are simply short a couple of PCI slots.
No biggie.
Click to expand...

the msi matx has 3 pci slots... a pci-e x16... (i need 1 pci for a modem...)
(actually the matx cases are no more $)

thanks,
sincerely
Tanya
 
George said:
You know, I have always bought mbrds with 5 or 6 PCI slots and never used
more than one (maybe 2 in the sound card days). With everything on the
mbrd those days, including 2 x 1Gbit network interfaces on my recent A64
system, I'm beginning to think it's just a waste.

I just realized the MSI RS480M2 has no serial port - how *could* they??
Click to expand...

there's u<Serial>b?
also i read that there are adapters
http://www.serialio.com/products/adaptors/usb_serial.htm
are there adapters for pci -> serial (not that i have ever used the serial port)
thanks!
 
George said:
I've no experience with Soltek - possibly someone else can comment. I've
used several MSI mbrds -- they're my current choice -- and not had any
problems... though you *can* get a dud from any mfr. While possibly not in
the same category as Asus, MSI is what I'd call a mainstream supplier...
I've found their BIOS update practices every bit as good as Asus.
Click to expand...

i've decided against the soltek in favor of the asus A8V-E...
(it is not that much more $ and it does have a good reputation...)


thanks,
sincerely
Tanya
 
Apparently some of them, Belkin's included, do not handle all the RS232
lines prroperly. - DTR & DSR would be kinda important for, e.g., an
external modem.
Click to expand...

Also worry (a lot) about any device that works in DOS. As long as
WinBlows can hide the device from the application, they me even work.
 
i've heard several places that there're problems with nforce4...
Click to expand...

Anything specific?... I'm on the verge of getting one. There are always
places with "problems" for any mbrd - apart from real problems, there's the
overclocking crowd who are often reluctant to reveal their clock speeds and
then those who have err, ventured beyond their capabilities.
 
there's u<Serial>b?
??

also i read that there are adapters
http://www.serialio.com/products/adaptors/usb_serial.htm
are there adapters for pci -> serial (not that i have ever used the serial port)
thanks!
Click to expand...

I haven't looked recently but there were PCI cards with serial ports and
usually with a parallel port too. Most mbrds still include at least one
serial and one parallel, though some notebooks are dropping them as well as
parellel.
 
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